Giving up on MBP--Going with MP

[Azmordean]

angry? being taken advantage of? who exactly is doing this? Because a company does not bring out the product YOU want, when YOU want it (to hell with engineering and software deadlines etc etc etc!!) they are taking advantage of you?

I can see plenty of problems with Apple, but not updating a particular product especially for you is no reason to get so dramatic. woe surely is you, right?

Yes, being taken advantage of. If Apple actually *reduced the price* of their hardware as it aged, like all other computer manufacturers tend to do, it wouldn't be so big a deal. The problem is the MBP is now badly outdated, yet Apple charges a premium price for it as if its top of the line technology. So you are faced with the choice of buying outdated hardware at an exorbitant price, or waiting until some random date in the future when Apple will bother to upgrade its products such that they are worth the price.

If Apple dropped the base MBP price down to 1599 or 1699, then upped it back to 1999 when the new ones come out, that would be reasonable. But charging the same price now on a computer that you charged when the identical machine was released almost a year ago is - yes - taking advantage of people and leveraging your monopoly in a rather obvious way.

Put another way, the only time Apple products are a good deal is when they are just released. Every month that passes, the value of the product drops, and the price doesn't. That's why so many of us wait until an update to order.

 

[tremendous]

Yes, being taken advantage of. If Apple actually *reduced the price* of their hardware as it aged, like all other computer manufacturers tend to do, it wouldn't be so big a deal. The problem is the MBP is now badly outdated, yet Apple charges a premium price for it as if its top of the line technology. So you are faced with the choice of buying outdated hardware at an exorbitant price, or waiting until some random date in the future when Apple will bother to upgrade its products such that they are worth the price.

If Apple dropped the base MBP price down to 1599 or 1699, then upped it back to 1999 when the new ones come out, that would be reasonable. But charging the same price now on a computer that you charged when the identical machine was released almost a year ago is - yes - taking advantage of people and leveraging your monopoly in a rather obvious way.

Put another way, the only time Apple products are a good deal is when they are just released. Every month that passes, the value of the product drops, and the price doesn't. That's why so many of us wait until an update to order.

Or, the choice of not buying it. This is what a lot of people seem to forget. No one, anywhere, is forcing you to buy apple hardware. If, by some chance, you use software that can only run on OS X then perhaps, but for the majority, it is merely a preference. no one holds a gun to your head. it's yet another example of people mistaking wants for needs.

also, if a product is the same list price now as it was a year ago, it's technically cheaper due to inflation.

btw, i am in no way an apple apologist. i think their customer service sucks and they are expensive. but then i guess i also don't feel i am owed anything by them, despite having been a customer for over 10 years. i made the choice to buy an apple, and i can equally make the choice to stop. so can you.

oh, and the idea that the mbp is 'badly outdated'. rather, we assume apple could make something faster. outdated? i don't know about that. i suppose at least you didn't call it 'ridiculously slow' or whatever other bulls*it some people on here come out with. man, with penryn we're gonna be SMOKIN'....

 

[Consultant]

jahutch, it's call WAIT, or buy it a refurb, or don't buy.

It's a free world. People will pay for something if it's worth it for them. Just because you think something else doesn't mean other people will think the same.

 

[maccompaq]

Thanks, but for the reasons I've outlined in my previous post, I really need to go with a Mac.

Thanks, though!

I have been an Apple customer since my Apple II in 1980 and my first Mac in 1990. I have kept all 18 of my Macs, the last being two 1999 Blue & White G3 400 MHz towers that work just fine, a little slow in OSX, blazing fast with OS 9.2.2. I have a Windows XP computer running an Athlon 64 processor at 2.41GHz and just a few months ago, I bought a Dell laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 2 GB RAM, 128MB GPU, WIFI, DVD/CD burner. I have a number of other Windows computers that I bought so I could become more familiar with Windows to help friends and family members using their Windoz machines. I have even influenced most of them to switch to Mac.

Right now I am back to using Windows full time and Mac maybe once a week. I am waiting to buy a Mac tower, but there is not one that suits me. Even though I can afford a Mac Pro, or even 100 of them, it does not suit my purposes. I will not even consider an iMac or a Mac Mini. So, until/unless Apple builds a tower like the G3/G4, I will not be buying another Mac.

 

[TantalizedMind]

Even though I can afford a Mac Pro, or even 100 of them, it does not suit my purposes.

You have $250,000 in the bank!? Will you be my sugar daddy?

 

[CarlosG]

If you're not doing academic research or professional video editing, I don't know why you'd get that instead of the more affordable iMac.

Well I'm not doing academic research or video editing with mine. No, I'm only running 3D CAD and some CFD analysis for my own business.

I would imagine that there are many reasons that people could justify a Mac Pro besides academic research and video editing.

DTP & photo editing could also be justified I imagine.
Oh, and music.
Mathmatica would work too.
Yeah. I think that covers it. Everyone else should get an iMac says Dave.

 

[acquinn]

Trust me - you'll love it! get the quadcore version, save some bucks and get a decent monitor...

 

[mactastic1971]

Trust me - you'll love it! get the quadcore version, save some bucks and get a decent monitor...

Acquinn... I think you can change your signature now then

 

[maccompaq]

Thanks, netdog.

I do quite a bit of photography and photographic editing and would need precise color reproduction. That was one of the features I was considering in the MBP.....going with a matte high resolution screen for accuracy in color representation.

I need a tremendous amount of RAM because the way I work I keep multiple programs and windows open/running as I bounce back and forth between applications, etc. I really know nothing about the iMac but had assumed it would not meet my needs (and of course, I wanted a desktop replacement that would provide the portability when needed, but wanted the 17" screen due to my 'multitasking' with so many windows open.

I really appreciate your feedback---thanks!

If you need a "tremendous amount of RAM", then the MBP and the iMac are not for you. The Mac Pro will give you the versatility of adding as much RAM as you will ever need. The single Quad at $2299 is a decent price. Don't let anyone try to talk you into getting the double Quad, because it is way over kill for what you are doing as well as a lot more money.

 

[DaveF]

So getting a Mac Pro for my needs may very well be overkill?

The main reason I wanted to wait for the upgraded/refreshed MBP (in addition to the available options I decided I wanted/needed) was that I thought the 45nm 2.6/2.8 ? GHz Penryn MBP would run cooler in relation to the GHz vs the current model. My son has an older, less powerful, MBP and complains of the heat it puts out. I never thought of an iMac (because I was concentrating so much on the MBP). That's another option for me to explore. Thanks.

Without knowing your needs, no one can comment on what you need.

So, here you say...

I do quite a bit of photography and photographic editing and would need precise color reproduction. That was one of the features I was considering in the MBP.....going with a matte high resolution screen for accuracy in color representation.

I need a tremendous amount of RAM because the way I work I keep multiple programs and windows open/running as I bounce back and forth between applications, etc. I really know nothing about the iMac but had assumed it would not meet my needs (and of course, I wanted a desktop replacement that would provide the portability when needed, but wanted the 17" screen due to my 'multitasking' with so many windows open.

If you need precise color reproduction, you need monitor and printer calibration hardware and software. Having a "matte screen" will not give you accurate colors. Having a calibrated monitor and calibrated printer will. This not really a matter of getting a Mac Pro versus an iMac versus a MBP.

As for "tremendous amount of RAM" -- I'd bet you'd be fine with 2GB. My wife does graphic design on a 4-yr old dual G5 system, running 10.5. She could work, albeit inefficiently, with 512 MB of RAM. We just upgraded her to 2 GB and things are great. She's running Adobe CS3, Excel, Mail, and Safari simultaneously. If you want to spent more money, you can upgrade to 4 GB on a MBP or iMac as well. (Just be sure to do the upgrade yourself. Apple charges an excessive premium for RAM.)

Regarding heat: all computers get hot. But only portables sit on your bare legs where you can feel it My 15" MBP gets really revved up when playing some games. But it's on the desk so I don't care. For living room, on the couch, web-surfing, it doesn't get warm enough to care. Besides, I use a lap desk so it's easier to use and never on bare skin. I consider this a non-issue.

As for portability -- I can't tell how much you want or need it. If this is a real priority, then a Mac Pro or iMac just aren't a solution. But if you want to move your computer about rarely, an iMac is a good solution. They're pretty light and can be transported with minimal fuss.

You can buy what you want. But if you're a teacher with modest income, family to support, and this computer is for personal hobby and modest work uses, you might be better served by getting a good machine (rather than a stupendous machine) and saving $1000+.

Moreover, if you doing typical hobbyist computer stuff, you will be well served by even the entry level iMac. Computers are so much more powerful now than just a few years ago.

20" iMac with 2GB and AppleCare: $1500
(not killer, but will work for any normal hobbyist photography endeavor)

Mac Pro, most basic config, (single CPU, 2GB, AppleCare, 20" Monitor): $3150
Beginning of a high-end machine.

I believe you're set to over-buy. You can get a good machine and save $1500.

 

[saltyzoo]

I'd lay money that the top end mac mini with 3 gig RAM would rock your needs and then some.

 

[DaveF]

Well I'm not doing academic research or video editing with mine. No, I'm only running 3D CAD and some CFD analysis for my own business.

I would imagine that there are many reasons that people could justify a Mac Pro besides academic research and video editing.

DTP & photo editing could also be justified I imagine.
Oh, and music.
Mathmatica would work too.
Yeah. I think that covers it. Everyone else should get an iMac says Dave.

CAD and computational freakin' fluid dynamics!?! For business use? You make my point! That's obviously in the spirit of what I described: high-end numerical computations, engineering, science, analysis. Heavy number crunching. Yes, certainly get this if you're doing hard-core Mathematica and Matlab. (like I do, yet still get it done on a five year old Pentium 4 ) The Mac Pro is a machine built for high-end applications. And it's priced to match.

It's not a good buy for home users with a photography hobby.

(The bigger issue is that Apple doesn't have the mythical X Mac -- a mid-range tower, user expandable, priced and powered between the iMac and Mac Pro.)

 

[basqarl]

So if I do go with the present MBP, is that overkill, given my needs?

 

[saltyzoo]

So if I do go with the present MBP, is that overkill, given my needs?

If you plan on keeping it for awhile, it would probably be an excellent investment in that it would continue to handle your load for quite awhile.

 

[basqarl]

If you plan on keeping it for awhile, it would probably be an excellent investment in that it would continue to handle your load for quite awhile.

Well, given the fact that I have had this Dell laptop for 6 years (Inspiron-- dying a slow death), I'm sure I will hold onto it for a long, long time...... (also considering the 3 college tuitions I'm footing =) I won't be in the market for anything new for myself for a while). That's actually what has happened; have purchased really nice laptops for 3 sons but kept the 'hand me down' old Dell for myself in the meantime...... 'sigh'

It's my turn now for something I love.....

 

[oban14]

Since Sept '07, I have been 'this close' to purchasing a new, 'loaded' MBP 17" but have been waiting for the upgrade as have many of us. I am tired of the waiting game, and at this point in time, because my old Dell is quickly approaching its demise, I need to move on.

Because having the laptop vs. desktop has been more of a 'want' than a 'need', I am planning on going with an MP. I know that I could go with the current MBP, but it irks me to purchase something that will be so shortly updated whereas the MP is new. That may or may not be logical, but frankly I'm angry and do not want to be taken advantage of by the big . (And forget the MBA---it's a lightweight --no pun-- in terms of my needs.)

That all being said, I need advice on what options to select for the MP to match (or exceed) a fully loaded MBP without breaking the bank. Obviously I will need a display, but I am not technically savvy enough to select the other features such as the processor(s), memory, graphics cards, hard drive storage, SAS hard drives, a Mac Pro RAID Card (?), SuperDrives (?), and/or other options.

(I think that this is the correct forum in which to post this thread of inquiry-- or should I be posting this to the MP forum?)

Thanks in advance for any recommendations you have...

I was in the same boat as you and ultimately decided to go with the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro blows the doors off of any MBP you can find. Compare:

Mac Pro:
8 cores, up to 3.2 ghz, and these are XEONS
32 gigs of ram, might go up to 64 gigs when the new DIMMs come out
Video cards - 8800GT is better than anything in a MBP, and there is a more expensive option if you need it.
3 TB of storage - try finding a laptop drive that big

MBP:
dual core, single processor.
up to 4 gigs of ram.
decent video card for a laptop, nothing special.
hard drive space - forget about it.

If I were you I'd get an 8800GT, then buy as much ram as you can afford from macsales.com or another after market place. For hard drives, check out the mac pro forum. Tons of stuff out there.

I agree it is frustrating that it takes Apple so long to update their hardware, but they have their reasons for doing it.

 

[maccompaq]

I was in the same boat as you and ultimately decided to go with the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro blows the doors off of any MBP you can find. Compare:

Mac Pro:
8 cores, up to 3.2 ghz, and these are XEONS
32 gigs of ram, might go up to 64 gigs when the new DIMMs come out
Video cards - 8800GT is better than anything in a MBP, and there is a more expensive option if you need it.
3 TB of storage - try finding a laptop drive that big

MBP:
dual core, single processor.
up to 4 gigs of ram.
decent video card for a laptop, nothing special.
hard drive space - forget about it.

If I were you I'd get an 8800GT, then buy as much ram as you can afford from macsales.com or another after market place. For hard drives, check out the mac pro forum. Tons of stuff out there.

I agree it is frustrating that it takes Apple so long to update their hardware, but they have their reasons for doing it.

The most important fact is that this dear lady does not have the kind of funds for the Mac Pro configuration that you suggested, with 3 kids in college.

 

[oban14]

The most important fact is that this dear lady does not have the kind of funds for the Mac Pro configuration that you suggested, with 3 kids in college.

Actually, she should be able to get a Mac Pro like I specified for about the same price as the "loaded 17" MBP" she was considering.

 

[weblogik]

you decided in september to get a macbook pro...

on november 1st mbp got a revision to 2.6 guess you missed it.

September
October
November
December
January
February
in 10 days March

7 months you could have been rockin a new mac dood

 

[hardsc02]

Go ahead and buy a Compaq or HP and get a lot of power for not much $.

Max it out to 4 GB RAM. Be sure to get Windows XP, not Vista.

In your opinion, is an HP a good machine to buy? I am glad you brought this up because I need to get a new laptop and I don't really do anything at all very intense (just browse the web and basic tasks, no video editing). The only thing I worry about is all of the spyware and virus programs that attack Windows. It just seems like they can destroy a PC. Is there anti-virus software effective enough to fully protect a PC to keep it running smoothly? I would much rather save around $1000 buying a PC and have a Blu-Ray drive. Maybe this is for another thread but I would like your insight into this maccompaq. Thanks!

 

[heatmiser]

In your opinion, is an HP a good machine to buy? I am glad you brought this up because I need to get a new laptop and I don't really do anything at all very intense (just browse the web and basic tasks, no video editing). The only thing I worry about is all of the spyware and virus programs that attack Windows. It just seems like they can destroy a PC. Is there anti-virus software effective enough to fully protect a PC to keep it running smoothly? I would much rather save around $1000 buying a PC and have a Blu-Ray drive. Maybe this is for another thread but I would like your insight into this maccompaq. Thanks!

Smart browsing habits reduce your spyware/virus issues to effectively zero. For virus protection, get the free version of AVG. Add a basic firewall (google free PC firewalls), and Adblock for your Firefox.

 

[maccompaq]

In your opinion, is an HP a good machine to buy? I am glad you brought this up because I need to get a new laptop and I don't really do anything at all very intense (just browse the web and basic tasks, no video editing). The only thing I worry about is all of the spyware and virus programs that attack Windows. It just seems like they can destroy a PC. Is there anti-virus software effective enough to fully protect a PC to keep it running smoothly? I would much rather save around $1000 buying a PC and have a Blu-Ray drive. Maybe this is for another thread but I would like your insight into this maccompaq. Thanks!

I have 6 Compaqs, including a laptop, and I have had very good luck with them. I have several friends with HP desktops having good experience. I just bought a Dell laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo with all the high power features and I am liking it so far. It is on par with a MacBook Pro. I also have 18 Macs, including a laptop, and I like them all. If Apple comes out with a computer with more power and features than the Mini, I will buy it. The Mac Pro has the expansion capabilties that I want, but I do not need all that power and noise.

Even though I spend many hours every day on the net, I have never had a virus on a Mac or Windows, and I do not use anti-virus software. I guess you might say that I have been lucky or that I am careful where I go.

 

[hardsc02]

Smart browsing habits reduce your spyware/virus issues to effectively zero. For virus protection, get the free version of AVG. Add a basic firewall (google free PC firewalls), and Adblock for your Firefox.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[hardsc02]

I have 6 Compaqs, including a laptop, and I have had very good luck with them. I have several friends with HP desktops having good experience. I just bought a Dell laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo with all the high power features and I am liking it so far. It is on par with a MacBook Pro. I also have 18 Macs, including a laptop, and I like them all. If Apple comes out with a computer with more power and features than the Mini, I will buy it. The Mac Pro has the expansion capabilties that I want, but I do not need all that power and noise.

Even though I spend many hours every day on the net, I have never had a virus on a Mac or Windows, and I do not use anti-virus software. I guess you might say that I have been lucky or that I am careful where I go.

Yeah I think the one common factor that all 4 of my virus/spyware infected PC's shared is downloaded music. My guess is that I was getting a lot of bundled spyware programs hidden within my music downloads across the internet.

 

[DaveF]

So if I do go with the present MBP, is that overkill, given my needs?

I don't know enough about the Mac Book to comment on whether it would be sufficient, compared to a MacBook Pro.

At least with the MBP you can get the entry model with AppleCare for $2300, still saving $800 over the basic MP, giving you portability, at the sacrifice of total power. But this is still a very nice laptop.

The difficult part is we don't know your budget. You implied having a modest computer budget but are discussing $3000+ computers. And you don't seem to have factored in software for your hobby. If you're serious and plan to get Photoshop, that's like $500. If you really want a calibrated system, that's like $200 for the kit. This is not to put you off, but to say asking "what should I buy" without describing your budget and goals is an impossible situation.

And all I can say for sure is that the Mac Pro is a high-end workstation, $3000 minimum, and (in my opinion) is overkill for most home users.

If you want a killer machine and have $3000 - $4000 to spend, the Mac Pro will be good for 10 years (no joke). Or you can buy a loaded 17" MBP for about $3500 that will crush most other laptops on the market.

But if you have a normal, or even lean, budget and also need to buy Photoshop, maybe a photo printer, and other Mac software, you should give the less expensive Mac's a good look.