GM Again Attempts to Explain Its Decision to Drop CarPlay in New EVs

[ZMacintosh]

what do they have to gain by not including Apple CarPlay? what other convictions do they have? no buttons for motorized windows? bringing back an ash tray?

sorry but all vehicle OEM instrument panels and nav units are trash and clunky.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Just to add I refer anyone to early mid 90’s “Infotainment” software by GM😂 and worse than that the 25 step button press for “DVD Navigation” also a clusterxxxx.
Two absolutely terrible pieces of software developed in-house. Junk.

To be fair, this describes almost every other “traditional” car manufacturer.

The only three brands I drove whose infotainment interface didn’t make me want to punch the display were Infiniti, Lincoln / Ford and Toyota. And not one of them held a candle to CarPlay.

 

[thebroz]

I believe there are a lot of potential car customers who would not even walk in the dealership to consider a vehicle without CarPlay. GM will not even have the opportunity to show their "superior" experience to these car buyers.

 

[Realityck]

I believe there are a lot of potential car customers who would not even walk in the dealership to consider a vehicle without CarPlay. GM will not even have the opportunity to show their "superior" experience to these car buyers.

Perhaps reviews that discuss mandatory subscriptions for navigation after a free period will be a big turn off to consumers. Back when this Ultifi first showed up GM thought they could make billions from selling subscriptions services like a cable TV provider monopoly. Recently the Ultifi name seems to be detracting so there were rumors of just using the current OnStar name for all of this that GM consumers were familiar with.

 

[Velli]

To be fair, this describes almost every other “traditional” car manufacturer.

The only three brands I drove whose infotainment interface didn’t make me want to punch the display were Infiniti, Lincoln / Ford and Toyota. And not one of them held a candle to CarPlay.

I think we need to play fair and not compare Carplay to how entertainment systems worked 25+ years ago. But, I also can't use a comparison with a Tesla or Rivian entertainment system for anything, when I'm buying a Mercedes or BMW - or, for the sake of this topic, a GM. I'd have to consider whether I want a car with GM's 2025 entertainment system, or Carplay. It's kind of useless that in a discussion about GM cars, people tell me I don't need Carplay because Tesla makes great entertainment systems.

 

[whitby]

Unless you’re driving a Corvette, it’s trivial to find an alternative that drives equally well or better, with CarPlay.

We all have our stupid little pet peeves that qualifies or disqualifies a car. For you, apparently the sound system. My wife will never get a car without keyless entry, no matter what. The key here is that CarPlay is A: Something a very high amount of new car buyers agree is desirable, and B: something that can be implemented without sacrificing any other aspect of the entertainment system - other than the ability for the car manufacturer to suck data and money from you.

I certainly would not make a decision to buy a car purely on the quality of the sound system. As I noted performance, handling, build quality, comfort, ability to cope with my 3 standard poodle (unless I am buying a pure fun car), styling etc. all rate much higher than inclusion or not of Car Play. However if I had a choice between identical vehicles in the categories I note, sound system might be a deciding factor. So far, after nearly 60 years of car buying, I have never used the quality of the sound system to make a final choice. Car Play, for me, is a nice to have. I need to be able to play my music on the phone through the car and make calls, that is all.

 

[Realityck]

I certainly would not make a decision to buy a car purely on the quality of the sound system

I actually did after I used a car with a Bose speaker setup, weakest bass ever in a car entertainment system.

 

[Velli]

I certainly would not make a decision to buy a car purely on the quality of the sound system. As I noted performance, handling, build quality, comfort, ability to cope with my 3 standard poodle (unless I am buying a pure fun car), styling etc. all rate much higher than inclusion or not of Car Play. However if I had a choice between identical vehicles in the categories I note, sound system might be a deciding factor. So far, after nearly 60 years of car buying, I have never used the quality of the sound system to make a final choice. Car Play, for me, is a nice to have. I need to be able to play my music on the phone through the car and make calls, that is all.

I'll put it this way: I can't think of a single feature that would make me buy a car solely based on the car having that feature. But I can think of many (including sound system by the way...) where not having the feature (or in the case of sound having a bad version) would make me NOT buy the car. Carplay is one of those (but far from the only one) for me.

For me, it's mostly about podcasts, and a few local media suppliers that are very unlikely to be directly supported by car manufacturers, but also because I just happen to like the way Apple Maps works. I know I'm in a minority on that, but... I don't really care

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I think we need to play fair and not compare Carplay to how entertainment systems worked 25+ years ago. But, I also can't use a comparison with a Tesla or Rivian entertainment system for anything, when I'm buying a Mercedes or BMW - or, for the sake of this topic, a GM. I'd have to consider whether I want a car with GM's 2025 entertainment system, or Carplay. It's kind of useless that in a discussion about GM cars, people tell me I don't need Carplay because Tesla makes great entertainment systems.

Well I was comparing relatively recent cars (2019 and up).

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I actually did after I used a car with a Bose speaker setup, weakest bass ever in a car entertainment system.

Yep. Of all of the cars in our family at the moment, the best sound is in a lowly Toyota. The Bose system in my wife’s SUV sounds like it could really use both more bass and more tremble, no matter how I play with it and the phone EQ. Luckily she doesn’t care.

 

[delsoul]

Sure, if you don’t use a product, it doesn’t matter if the product is good. But it also renders your opinion about it irrelevant.

If you read closer you’d have noticed I said I did use it before. My opinion is very relevant. I stopped using it because I realized I wasn’t missing out on much at all. 👍

 

[Makosuke]

I think we need to play fair and not compare Carplay to how entertainment systems worked 25+ years ago.

This is true, although I'd also argue it's exactly why Carplay support is so much more important now compared to 25 years ago.

25 years ago, entertainment systems were primitive and sucked, but they were almost all DIN form factor, and easily replacable. Don't like your radio? Upgrade it. Want to add satellite radio? Upgrade it. Want to add a GPS, or improve the crappy one that came with the car? Upgrade it.

I had a 2002 Acura that had a relatively high-tech infotainment system for its era--6-disc CD changer and DVD-based navigation! It was also virtually useless by 2012 when I owned the car--I hadn't used a CD in years, the navigation was so crude it was like a joke, it was designed before the iPhone even existed, and it had no microphone. So I just slapped in a new Pioneer head unit that added bluetooth, a microphone for calls, a bigger screen, and new navigation. If I had owned the car longer, I could have added CarPlay or whatever other features I desired that weren't even dreamed of at the time the car shipped.

25 years later, most vehicles have the infotainment system integrated heavily into the car, and it's not replaceable, so if there's no way to let my phone use the screen, I'm stuck with whatever hardware shipped with the car, and completely at the mercy of the car company for how long and whether they choose to upgrade the software.

And unlike 25 years ago, I now have a powerful, internet-connected computer with multiple mapping options, a wide variety of music options, and a bunch of other features in my pocket any time I'm in the car. A device I upgrade far more frequently than I do my car. If I can let it use the screen, my infotainment system is whatever my device can provide.

But, I also can't use a comparison with a Tesla or Rivian entertainment system for anything, when I'm buying a Mercedes or BMW - or, for the sake of this topic, a GM. I'd have to consider whether I want a car with GM's 2025 entertainment system, or Carplay.

And there's the bottom line--unless you upgrade your car every couple of years, you aren't actually having to consider whether you want a car with GM's 2025 infotainment system versus 2025's CarPlay, you have to consider whether you want a car with GM's 2025 infotainment system, plus whatever software upgrades GM has decided to offer over the next decade, versus 2035's CarPlay running on a 2035 phone, or 2035's Android Auto (or whatever it's called) running on a 2035 Android phone if you decide to switch platforms.

The 4G network gets retired in six years and your infotainment system's hardware doesn't support 5G? Too bad, there goes the cellular connectivity.

Some new feature requires too much processing power for the 2025 car's hardware to run? Too bad, you'll have to live without.

Move to a new area that has poor coverage on the cell network my car uses? Oh well.

Some entirely new thing appears (full satellite internet? Generative AI? Something else currently not imagined?) that your car wasn't built for? Too bad.

GM decides that it's not economically viable to add any new features to the OS after 3 years? Too bad, you're stuck at whatever features you have in 2028.

GM decides it's more profitable to sell their infotainment division to Meta who then puts everything on it behind a paywall or covers it with Facebook ads? Enjoy!

GM does something stupid again and goes bankrupt? So much for updates!

Meanwhile, if I had instead bought a car with CarPlay and Android Auto, my infotainment system essentially gets a CPU upgrade every year, a software upgrade every year, support for any new cell network developments, I'm already paying for all the services necessary to support it, and I can choose between Apple and Google maps at any time. And if Apple decides to suck, or for whatever other reason I decide to switch my phone ecosystem, I can bring my new device and its features to the same screen in the same car, so I have at minimum two entirely independent OSes, companies, and ecosystems to chose from.

Some of these things wouldn't happen if GM (or Tesla, etc) does a good job with their software, and keeps updating it, but unless they also start selling hardware upgrades for the car's hardware, some new things just can't be supported.

 

[CapitalIdea]

Oh shut up GM. You want to collect data for trusted partners and want to run it through an in-car App Store. Some of us read the white papers. Spare us with the “GM ecosystem” crap. It’s a car.

 

[Velli]

If you read closer you’d have noticed I said I did use it before. My opinion is very relevant. I stopped using it because I realized I wasn’t missing out on much at all. 👍

In the context of whether or not a good entertainment system matters, your opinion is relevant. In the context of which entertainment system is best for those who believe it matters, your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Velli]

Well I was comparing relatively recent cars (2019 and up).

I don’t disagree, but you were replying to a post that referred to 90’s cars, so I was thinking in that context. I do agree that most entertainment systems in mainstream brands currently suck.

 

[Chevysales]

To be fair, this describes almost every other “traditional” car manufacturer.

The only three brands I drove whose infotainment interface didn’t make me want to punch the display were Infiniti, Lincoln / Ford and Toyota. And not one of them held a candle to CarPlay.

While that likely is true. I only have personal knowledge of GM as that’s who I spent 23 years with.

The others I am not versed at inside and out. And only added the above after as an example given that nothing changed in years since as in-cabin user software still leaves a lot to be desired. Whether for a Corvette or a Trax.

I also am considering the service techs (electronics certified only) position in this as they are the key for any issues consumers have.

GM should have partnered with Apple/Carplay but I get why they didn’t. They want all data from us and Apple won’t share.

GM wants to sell us everything directly and track us through anything we do in that car and no better way than this.

So I get the why they are solo 100% but my feeling is if we are giving up privacy at least make us comfortable while it’s happening.

 

[nerdAFK]

I’m not getting a Tesla for various reasons, but I’m genuinely curious because I don’t know: How do Tesla users play a podcast in their car, and then pick up where they left off when they step out of the car and put in headphones?

This is literally 90% of my use of a car’s entertainment system. Even if possible, I still prefer to use my podcast app of choice through CarPlay, but it can’t be impossible?

Recent OTA updates (yes, Teslas are computers on wheels, they just update like your phones and computers over the air) have introduced Apple Music and Apple Podcast integration, so you can just log in with your Apple account directly on Tesla's infotainment system.

Still boggles me so many people have no idea Tesla is so much more advanced than every other non-Tesla (and since Tesla innovates and iterates much faster, their lead is only growing ever larger).

Like I said, go test drive one and see for yourself.

 

[Chazak]

Have they not seen the surveys that the majority of people wouldn't consider a car without Apple CarPlay/Android Auto?

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Velli]

Recent OTA updates (yes, Teslas are computers on wheels, they just update like your phones and computers over the air) have introduced Apple Music and Apple Podcast integration, so you can just log in with your Apple account directly on Tesla's infotainment system.

Still boggles me so many people have no idea Tesla is so much more advanced than every other non-Tesla (and since Tesla innovates and iterates much faster, their lead is only growing ever larger).

Like I said, go test drive one and see for yourself.

I have driven Tesla’s, and I chose differently. I was just curious because I saw other people using Podcasts as an argument. So, thanks for clearing it up.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

While that likely is true. I only have personal knowledge of GM as that’s who I spent 23 years with.

The others I am not versed at inside and out. And only added the above after as an example given that nothing changed in years since as in-cabin user software still leaves a lot to be desired. Whether for a Corvette or a Trax.

I also am considering the service techs (electronics certified only) position in this as they are the key for any issues consumers have.

GM should have partnered with Apple/Carplay but I get why they didn’t. They want all data from us and Apple won’t share.

Tough.

They are not the world’s top car maker anymore. They are not even the US top carmaker. They don’t get to dictate their will to the consumers when most consumers don’t see them as their top choice anyway.

GM wants to sell us everything directly and track us through anything we do in that car and no better way than this.

And I want to be a rock star.

So I get the why they are solo 100% but my feeling is if we are giving up privacy at least make us comfortable while it’s happening.

You know what’s funny ? The top selling brands that gobbled up GM’s lost market share both globally and domestically all support CarPlay and indicated that they will continue to do so.

Makes me wonder sometimes if GM top leadership secretly works for Toyota…

 

[iFunk]

Most people on the planet have an iPhone or Android smartphone. Let them have the experience of continuity in their cars.

It costs you nothing.

Taking this stand will do only one thing...hurt your sales.

Exactly. Why not just leave CarPlay and THEN build something so mind-blowing that everyone will love GM product. Everything I've read is they think it is going to generate them x MILLIONS of dollars per year in sub prices. I am not convinced because if people decide just not to buy a GM vehicle... well then they lose sales!

 

[delsoul]

Recent OTA updates (yes, Teslas are computers on wheels, they just update like your phones and computers over the air) have introduced Apple Music and Apple Podcast integration, so you can just log in with your Apple account directly on Tesla's infotainment system.

Still boggles me so many people have no idea Tesla is so much more advanced than every other non-Tesla (and since Tesla innovates and iterates much faster, their lead is only growing ever larger).

Like I said, go test drive one and see for yourself.

A lot of these ‘never Tesla’ folks were somehow hurt by Elon. Not sure how, but seems to be the case. It’s four wheels and a steering wheel. It’s not THAT deep. That and so many Europeans who are ‘never Tesla’ types because it’s Elon or it’s American…but they love apple products, American basketball, New York City/Los Angeles, etc. Really strikes me odd. Loves to bash the US any chance given and yet loves everything American.

Like you said, Tesla engineering and software is light years ahead of the competition. I use Apple Music with mine and it was so easy that I literally scanned the QR code with my phone and it logged in, set everything up on its own in the blink of an eye. All my songs, playlists, etc laid out just like on the computer.

 

[nerdAFK]

A lot of these ‘never Tesla’ folks were somehow hurt by Elon. Not sure how, but seems to be the case. It’s four wheels and a steering wheel. It’s not THAT deep. That and so many Europeans who are ‘never Tesla’ types because it’s Elon or it’s American…but they love apple products, American basketball, New York City/Los Angeles, etc. Really strikes me odd. Loves to bash the US any chance given and yet loves everything American.

Like you said, Tesla engineering and software is light years ahead of the competition. I use Apple Music with mine and it was so easy that I literally scanned the QR code with my phone and it logged in, set everything up on its own in the blink of an eye. All my songs, playlists, etc laid out just like on the computer.

Those people read and watch too much legacy media

 

[nerdAFK]

I have driven Tesla’s, and I chose differently. I was just curious because I saw other people using Podcasts as an argument. So, thanks for clearing it up.

Cool.

Just a reminder to people that don't follow Tesla closely that Tesla moves SO fast that the Model 3 I bought years ago is completely different when it comes to software features.

 

[ijordano]

That dashboard looks like someone forced a big display into an early 90s car