Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
A lot of these ‘never Tesla’ folks were somehow hurt by Elon. Not sure how, but seems to be the case. It’s four wheels and a steering wheel. It’s not THAT deep. That and so many Europeans who are ‘never Tesla’ types because it’s Elon or it’s American…but they love apple products, American basketball, New York City/Los Angeles, etc. Really strikes me odd. Loves to bash the US any chance given and yet loves everything American.

Like you said, Tesla engineering and software is light years ahead of the competition. I use Apple Music with mine and it was so easy that I literally scanned the QR code with my phone and it logged in, set everything up on its own in the blink of an eye. All my songs, playlists, etc laid out just like on the computer.
Same can be said of Americans who diss on China, yet buys lots of Made in China products…

Edit: By the way, if I buy a Tesla here, it is very likely made in China, and with 100% certainty not made in US.

What bothers me are Tesla fans who can’t fathom that it’s possible to prefer something different. The argument is always “go try one”, like every single person on the planet would buy one if they did. No brand, no matter how good, would get a 100% market share. Some people just want to be different. Many Tesla owners think they are different - where I live Teslas are no longer the “cool” car, it’s like the soccer mom car that “everybody” has. I like to drive something different. It’s not the only reason, I’m not impressed with the interior at all, although I understand why it seems luxury if you come from a Hyundai.

And call me irrational, but every time I hear a Tesla making fart noises or chicken chuckles when the owner locks it, I am verified in my belief that it’s just not my car. It’s like Harley Davidsons, I understand the appeal but it’s just not my lifestyle. What some find fun, I find vulgar and infantile. I think many Tesla shills would benefit from a little more understanding of people’s differences. I don’t want one, and you are just gonna have to accept that.
 
Last edited:
A lot of these ‘never Tesla’ folks were somehow hurt by Elon. Not sure how, but seems to be the case. It’s four wheels and a steering wheel. It’s not THAT deep. That and so many Europeans who are ‘never Tesla’ types because it’s Elon or it’s American…but they love apple products, American basketball, New York City/Los Angeles, etc. Really strikes me odd. Loves to bash the US any chance given and yet loves everything American.

Like you said, Tesla engineering and software is light years ahead of the competition. I use Apple Music with mine and it was so easy that I literally scanned the QR code with my phone and it logged in, set everything up on its own in the blink of an eye. All my songs, playlists, etc laid out just like on the computer.
Whatever one may think of Musk you are over valuing loud online presence.
The Model Y is the best selling Euro car of 2023 and the Model 3 is the second best selling EV. 2024 not so great but a lot of people have been waiting for Juniper.
And neither are typically very popular European car bodies. The Model Y is perhaps too big and the 3 is a sedan.
One US product that is not that popular anymore is basketball. It was way more relevant when I was a teenager in the Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan years. Nowadays football (the kind played with the feet) is even more dominant.
 
Those people read and watch too much legacy media

I’m no a fan of enriching someone who exposed himself to a flight attendant, got reported, and tried to bribe her with a pony (as per the arbitration records). I also don’t like rewarding people who sue companies for choosing not to do business with them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnb300m
This is true, although I'd also argue it's exactly why Carplay support is so much more important now compared to 25 years ago.

25 years ago, entertainment systems were primitive and sucked, but they were almost all DIN form factor, and easily replacable. Don't like your radio? Upgrade it. Want to add satellite radio? Upgrade it. Want to add a GPS, or improve the crappy one that came with the car? Upgrade it.

I had a 2002 Acura that had a relatively high-tech infotainment system for its era--6-disc CD changer and DVD-based navigation! It was also virtually useless by 2012 when I owned the car--I hadn't used a CD in years, the navigation was so crude it was like a joke, it was designed before the iPhone even existed, and it had no microphone. So I just slapped in a new Pioneer head unit that added bluetooth, a microphone for calls, a bigger screen, and new navigation. If I had owned the car longer, I could have added CarPlay or whatever other features I desired that weren't even dreamed of at the time the car shipped.

25 years later, most vehicles have the infotainment system integrated heavily into the car, and it's not replaceable, so if there's no way to let my phone use the screen, I'm stuck with whatever hardware shipped with the car, and completely at the mercy of the car company for how long and whether they choose to upgrade the software.

And unlike 25 years ago, I now have a powerful, internet-connected computer with multiple mapping options, a wide variety of music options, and a bunch of other features in my pocket any time I'm in the car. A device I upgrade far more frequently than I do my car. If I can let it use the screen, my infotainment system is whatever my device can provide.

And there's the bottom line--unless you upgrade your car every couple of years, you aren't actually having to consider whether you want a car with GM's 2025 infotainment system versus 2025's CarPlay, you have to consider whether you want a car with GM's 2025 infotainment system, plus whatever software upgrades GM has decided to offer over the next decade, versus 2035's CarPlay running on a 2035 phone, or 2035's Android Auto (or whatever it's called) running on a 2035 Android phone if you decide to switch platforms.

The 4G network gets retired in six years and your infotainment system's hardware doesn't support 5G? Too bad, there goes the cellular connectivity.

Some new feature requires too much processing power for the 2025 car's hardware to run? Too bad, you'll have to live without.

Move to a new area that has poor coverage on the cell network my car uses? Oh well.

Some entirely new thing appears (full satellite internet? Generative AI? Something else currently not imagined?) that your car wasn't built for? Too bad.

GM decides that it's not economically viable to add any new features to the OS after 3 years? Too bad, you're stuck at whatever features you have in 2028.

GM decides it's more profitable to sell their infotainment division to Meta who then puts everything on it behind a paywall or covers it with Facebook ads? Enjoy!

GM does something stupid again and goes bankrupt? So much for updates!

Meanwhile, if I had instead bought a car with CarPlay and Android Auto, my infotainment system essentially gets a CPU upgrade every year, a software upgrade every year, support for any new cell network developments, I'm already paying for all the services necessary to support it, and I can choose between Apple and Google maps at any time. And if Apple decides to suck, or for whatever other reason I decide to switch my phone ecosystem, I can bring my new device and its features to the same screen in the same car, so I have at minimum two entirely independent OSes, companies, and ecosystems to chose from.

Some of these things wouldn't happen if GM (or Tesla, etc) does a good job with their software, and keeps updating it, but unless they also start selling hardware upgrades for the car's hardware, some new things just can't be supported.
I could not agree more.
Different timeline but same story.
My old Dodge Charger from 2012 had the original UConnect in it. It worked great! And it worked really great with my iPhone 5. By the time I got to my new 6S, and a # of iOS updates later, Uconnect barely worked for me anymore. No more voice commands, no more "iPod" player. Even bluetooth stopped working by time I got to my iPhone X.
Chrysler abandoned my version of UConnect by 2015, and there was nothing to do about it.

But if you have CarPlay, users get far far longer of a timeline of usefulness and compatibility.

Maybe if GM works really hard, and makes damn sure their Ultifi works as good as BMW iDrive, or better? Maybe it'll be ok? While also being relentless with continuous compatibility?
But I don't know. I'm skeptical.
 
I’m no a fan of enriching someone who exposed himself to a flight attendant, got reported, and tried to bribe her with a pony (as per the arbitration records). I also don’t like rewarding people who sue companies for choosing not to do business with them.
So you are a reader of Business Insider LOL
 
I could not agree more.
Different timeline but same story.
My old Dodge Charger from 2012 had the original UConnect in it. It worked great! And it worked really great with my iPhone 5. By the time I got to my new 6S, and a # of iOS updates later, Uconnect barely worked for me anymore. No more voice commands, no more "iPod" player. Even bluetooth stopped working by time I got to my iPhone X.
Chrysler abandoned my version of UConnect by 2015, and there was nothing to do about it.

But if you have CarPlay, users get far far longer of a timeline of usefulness and compatibility.

Maybe if GM works really hard, and makes damn sure their Ultifi works as good as BMW iDrive, or better? Maybe it'll be ok? While also being relentless with continuous compatibility?
But I don't know. I'm skeptical.
No chance they will support things when they get old. Their new business model is all about monthly revenue. They will just want you to upgrade your car.
 
The difference is that I wouldn't buy a GM car, just like I wouldn't buy an HP computer. One should consider the whole package - the hardware, the underlying software, and the experience the sum of those deliver - when shopping for a car just like one would when shopping for a computer.

Where are the hoards of complaints from Rivian and Tesla owners? Surely, if a carmaker could not make good software that excludes CarPlay, we would hear more noise from the owners of those vehicles about it?
I agree, but this article is about GM.
 
Where are the hoards of complaints from Rivian and Tesla owners? Surely, if a carmaker could not make good software that excludes CarPlay, we would hear more noise from the owners of those vehicles about it?
I’ve complained a few times here and in Tesla forums that Carplay was missing, and I know that others have also done that - but why would we expect anyone to respond?
I found Apple Music to be a good substitute for content, once it was available
the music player interface is still sub-Carplay, and I’d be happy if Tesla improved the player - seems unlikely
I don’t care about the other apps
 


American automaker General Motors (GM) last year announced it would be phasing out support for CarPlay and Android Auto in its new electric vehicles, in favor of its own software platform called Ultifi. The decision has been very controversial, as many drivers consider CarPlay to be a must-have feature in a new vehicle. In 2022, for example, Apple said 79% of U.S. buyers would only consider a vehicle that works with CarPlay.

carplay-widescreen-dashboard.jpg

To make matters worse, GM's rollout of Ultifi went rather poorly, with some early reviewers of the Chevrolet Blazer EV last year experiencing technical issues with the platform. Some of those problems have since been resolved, but it is clear that the automaker might not be as effective at developing software as a tech company like Apple.

In a statement shared with MacRumors last year, GM said its software strategy is "driven by the benefits of having a system that allows for greater integration with the larger GM ecosystem and vehicles." In other words, the automaker wants to control the entire in-vehicle experience, which is both a reasonable and a risky decision.

In a recent interview with The Verge's Nilay Patel, GM's senior vice president of software Baris Cetinok further attempted to defend the automaker's decision to phase out CarPlay. Cetinok worked at Apple between 2012 and 2021, helping to spearhead the launch of Apple Pay, Find My, iCloud Drive, and more, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Cetinok joined GM months after it announced its decision to phase out CarPlay and Android Auto, but unsurprisingly he stands by the automaker's decision. He told Patel that GM believes with "strong conviction" that creating its entire in-vehicle experience provides "a better customer experience" with "end-to-end magic."


2024-Chevrolet-Blazer-EV-Ultifi.jpg


2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV with GM's Ultifi software platform

"But we have a strong conviction that effort pays off in a better customer experience," said Cetinok, speaking on the Decoder podcast. "You get the most out of your vehicle because now we're the company that builds the vehicle and is also creating the infotainment experience, the cluster experience, the app, and everything. We're going to build that one day and maybe a voice assistant on top of it. The only way you can create that end-to-end magic is to have a strong conviction that you want to own all of these."

He said GM wants to offer a seamless experience that does not require having to switch in and out of phone mirroring systems like CarPlay and Android Auto.

"When you want to create something so seamless, it's hard to think about getting into a car and going, 'Okay, so I'm doing highway trailering, but let me flip to a totally different user interface to pick my podcast,'" said Cetinok. "By the way, it's a single app-obsessed interface — it's still hard to believe. So I pick my podcast, flip back to trailering. Oh, now I can also do Super Cruise trailering. Let me manage that. Then, wait, we're now getting into potentially Level 3, Level 4 autonomy levels that should be deeply integrated with talking to the map where the lanes lie. But wait a minute, the map that I'm using doesn't really talk to my car."

The full transcript of the interview with more CarPlay commentary is available on The Verge.

Article Link: GM Again Attempts to Explain Its Decision to Drop CarPlay in New EVs
Horrible idea. I have been loyal for many years. I will leave GM over this, mark my words.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wizec
Open Source gives car makers what they want, fine control, and ownership of the software. Apple just can't compete with that.
What car makers want:
1) The ability to farm your data and
2) Make the software a subscription service after an initial free trial.

Google Android Automotive is built around satisfying these goals. It is difficult for auto manufacturers to satisfy these goals with Apple CarPlay.
 
What car makers want:
1) The ability to farm your data and
2) Make the software a subscription service after an initial free trial.

Google Android Automotive is built around satisfying these goals. It is difficult for auto manufacturers to satisfy these goals with Apple CarPlay.
Not entirely. Just create an app like some car and insurance companies do that track your driving, etc.
 
OK. Good article. I think CarPlay will be dead soon because Google has open-sourced Android Automotive. The only way to compete with Google is to open source car play and Apple would never do that

Open Source gives car makers what they want, fine control, and ownership of the software. Apple just can't compete with that.
The only thing that will cause change, is MONEY!
If car makers who don't allow Car Play sales go down, and surveys that tell them why, then and only then will it change. I for one, will NOT buy a car that doesn't have Car Play.
 
OK. Good article. I think CarPlay will be dead soon because Google has open-sourced Android Automotive. The only way to compete with Google is to open source car play and Apple would never do that

Open Source gives car makers what they want, fine control, and ownership of the software. Apple just can't compete with that.
Over 50% of US consumers use iPhones and the percentage goes up for the younger generations.

Not providing consumers what they want is usually not a good strategy. Especially since the Asian automakers aren’t on board with that. The last I checked Toyota and Honda and Subaru and Hyundai all offered Carplay.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, Ford is sticking with CarPlay as well.

So, GM is the only major legacy car manufacturer in the US that will not offer CarPlay.

We’ll see how it plays out in the long run.
 
Personally, I think GM may offer through the iOS App Store an app that allows GM's implementation of Android Automotive to directly access the phone functionality and the music/podcasts stored on a connected iPhone. I'll call it iPhone Link.
 
Over 50% of US consumers use iPhones and the percentage goes up for the younger generations.

Not providing consumers what they want is usually not a good strategy. Especially since the Asian automakers aren’t on board with that. The last I checked Toyota and Honda and Subaru and Hyundai all offered Carplay.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, Ford is sticking with CarPlay as well.

So, GM is the only major legacy car manufacturer in the US that will not offer CarPlay.

We’ll see how it plays out in the long run.
… and Nissan, Kia and a host more besides.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
Personally, I think GM may offer through the iOS App Store an app that allows GM's implementation of Android Automotive to directly access the phone functionality and the music/podcasts stored on a connected iPhone. I'll call it iPhone Link.
Well, the only really desirable product GM has is their trucks. The rest is hardly on most people’s top choices lists. So, good luck to them…
 
Personally, I think GM may offer through the iOS App Store an app that allows GM's implementation of Android Automotive to directly access the phone functionality and the music/podcasts stored on a connected iPhone. I'll call it iPhone Link.
So you think they'll just rebrand a bluetooth link? That's very 2011.

That isn't going to satisfy iPhone owners who want CarPlay, which does a lot more than let you play your iPod and answer phone calls.
 


American automaker General Motors (GM) last year announced it would be phasing out support for CarPlay and Android Auto in its new electric vehicles, in favor of its own software platform called Ultifi. The decision has been very controversial, as many drivers consider CarPlay to be a must-have feature in a new vehicle. In 2022, for example, Apple said 79% of U.S. buyers would only consider a vehicle that works with CarPlay.

carplay-widescreen-dashboard.jpg

To make matters worse, GM's rollout of Ultifi went rather poorly, with some early reviewers of the Chevrolet Blazer EV last year experiencing technical issues with the platform. Some of those problems have since been resolved, but it is clear that the automaker might not be as effective at developing software as a tech company like Apple.

In a statement shared with MacRumors last year, GM said its software strategy is "driven by the benefits of having a system that allows for greater integration with the larger GM ecosystem and vehicles." In other words, the automaker wants to control the entire in-vehicle experience, which is both a reasonable and a risky decision.

In a recent interview with The Verge's Nilay Patel, GM's senior vice president of software Baris Cetinok further attempted to defend the automaker's decision to phase out CarPlay. Cetinok worked at Apple between 2012 and 2021, helping to spearhead the launch of Apple Pay, Find My, iCloud Drive, and more, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Cetinok joined GM months after it announced its decision to phase out CarPlay and Android Auto, but unsurprisingly he stands by the automaker's decision. He told Patel that GM believes with "strong conviction" that creating its entire in-vehicle experience provides "a better customer experience" with "end-to-end magic."


2024-Chevrolet-Blazer-EV-Ultifi.jpg


2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV with GM's Ultifi software platform

"But we have a strong conviction that effort pays off in a better customer experience," said Cetinok, speaking on the Decoder podcast. "You get the most out of your vehicle because now we're the company that builds the vehicle and is also creating the infotainment experience, the cluster experience, the app, and everything. We're going to build that one day and maybe a voice assistant on top of it. The only way you can create that end-to-end magic is to have a strong conviction that you want to own all of these."

He said GM wants to offer a seamless experience that does not require having to switch in and out of phone mirroring systems like CarPlay and Android Auto.

"When you want to create something so seamless, it's hard to think about getting into a car and going, 'Okay, so I'm doing highway trailering, but let me flip to a totally different user interface to pick my podcast,'" said Cetinok. "By the way, it's a single app-obsessed interface — it's still hard to believe. So I pick my podcast, flip back to trailering. Oh, now I can also do Super Cruise trailering. Let me manage that. Then, wait, we're now getting into potentially Level 3, Level 4 autonomy levels that should be deeply integrated with talking to the map where the lanes lie. But wait a minute, the map that I'm using doesn't really talk to my car."

The full transcript of the interview with more CarPlay commentary is available on The Verge.

Article Link: GM Again Attempts to Explain Its Decision to Drop CarPlay in New EVs
Maybe work on the mechanicals like the exploding 6.2L engine before you try to take on something as serious as the infotainment systems you already launched that are POS 😂😂😂. You’re a car manufacturer not a multi media infotainment genius. Maybe stay in your lane and perfect your mechanicals before you jump into another area🤦🏻‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowCrocodile
I don’t see why they don’t just use CarPlay Ultra like Aston Martin and others are starting to do. They can “own” the experience to a large degree but without having to invent the wheel again.

Simpler.
 
I don’t see why they don’t just use CarPlay Ultra like Aston Martin and others are starting to do. They can “own” the experience to a large degree but without having to invent the wheel again.

Simpler.
And their own “wheels” are that good to begin with. GM has about as much entertainment chops as my Great Dane sitting here beside me.
 
They don't even need their own apps — they can purchase this data from existing analytics vendors.

Yes see GasBuddy. Which I was disappointed is able to collect some iPhone sensor data using regular Apple API that can't be blocked.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.