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GM has 120 days to live, Ford 7 months.

quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Original poster
Apr 19, 2004
7,045
2,587
Well Ford and GM's Q3 results have been posted. GM had a cash burn of $6.9 billion and a loss of $2.5 billion. Ford lost $2.98 billion. If nothing changes, estimates have GM lasting 120 days and Ford lasting 7 months.

While I agree GM and Ford have been mismanaged on a massive scale and they were idiots relying on SUV's and trucks and neglecting their cars, etc. Should the gov't be sitting there and do nothing to help them( give loans, etc with massive stipulations, etc like removal of GM's idiotic board members)? While people may believe in the free market and let the weak die, the free market is going to kill the country due to the thousands of people that will be out of work if GM and Ford fail.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={83F94693-8303-4DB1-82FD-8C59C59D7C57}

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aysNwuvCVmpw&refer=home
 
It's madness that Ford aren't speeding up the introduction of the One Ford ideology. Get the Ka, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in U.S. showrooms now, not 2010. Or they might as well just spin Ford Europe off now, before Ford U.S. sinks the whole shebang.
 
iGav said:
It's madness that Ford aren't speeding up the introduction of the One Ford ideology. Get the Ka, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in U.S. showrooms now, not 2010. Or they might as well just spin Ford Europe off now, before Ford U.S. sinks the whole shebang.
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Ford Europe's profit was down nearly 75% this quarter. They're barely breaking even now.

The only semi-viable division at this point is Ford South America.

It's all moot, though, since the government will bail out Ford and GM so they can keep throwing their money away making cars no one wants.
 
Unspeaked said:
Ford Europe's profit was down nearly 75% this quarter. They're barely breaking even now.
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But they still made a profit in a period that was defined by a dramatic economic slowdown, with 3 of Europe's largest economies entering into recession.

Not to mention that the last quarter was the end of a life cycle for 2 of their main products (Ka & Fiesta) one of which (the Fiesta) has only just gone on sale, and the other does not go on sale until 2009, this has had a significant impact on sales (and profits) for the last quarter, as buyers waited for the new models to arrive.
 
They both make absolutely horrid vehicles that look and feel super cheap and run like **** and fall apart... I hope they close shop, it is survival of the fitest.
 
synth3tik said:
Who wants those crappy transmissions anyway?

I'll take an Audi or a Volvo over a GM or Ford any day.
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Volvo is owned by Ford. Take a look at the Taurus, it rides on a Volvo platform.

omegaphil6 said:
They both make absolutely horrid vehicles that look and feel super cheap and run like **** and fall apart... I hope they close shop, it is survival of the fitest.
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Have you owned one of their recent products? I have and they are huge improvements and actually compete with the japanese.

cantthinkofone said:
I like my acura. and will keep buying them.

I can't believe they are still trying to sell SUVs and trucks here. Everybody has one.
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Because people still need them. My family still has a need for a Suburban for towing and hauling 7 people and cargo.
 
iGav said:
It's madness that Ford aren't speeding up the introduction of the One Ford ideology. Get the Ka, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in U.S. showrooms now, not 2010. Or they might as well just spin Ford Europe off now, before Ford U.S. sinks the whole shebang.
Click to expand...

They would have done this a decade ago had they not made the decision to let Nasser fall on the sword for the Firestone debacle and let Bill Ford run the company. They were even in the process of it -- in the early 2000s, they had the Focus squarely on the Car & Driver top ten list. They should have let Bill Ford fall on the sword and kept Nasser instead.
 
If I were on Ford or GM's board I'd cure this problem by paying all executive level management with a five or ten year deferment. In other words we hold their pay check for five to ten years then the amount of the check is based on how well the company is doing at the time the check is written. This would end their short sightedness very quickly. Of course they would need to eat now, so we loan them money to cover the 5 to 10 year no-pay period. This loan only makes it better because now they are in debt.

The current trouble is all due to the executives being paid from current quarter results. With the current pay system stupid things like cash incentive to buyers where the cash comes from next quarter and closing plants makes to much sense. If their pay came from five years out accounting tricks would matter less and they would have incentive to invest in R&D and engineering and employee training
 
Ford makes some great and truly groundbreaking vehicles. It's a great company which has had a bunch of unfortunate missteps....without a doubt, though, it will survive. Ford is one of the cornerstones of the auto industry...an integral part of it. GM is another great car company that has had it's fair share of issues. GM has some really good products, both current and planned. A failure of GM would mean a major loss of innovation and design to the auto industry. GM should not be allowed to fail. If the US government will bail out banks, they should do in kind for the auto industry...Extend loans to them so they can move ahead.
 
Maybe they should actually live in reality, scale back there damn suv and truck production because almost no one is buying, and give some cars that are innovative, say ones that actually meet higher gas mileage goals? (40 mpg).
 
The American government should not intervene with any of this. Let the market ride itself, the so called free market should be run like everyday life: the strong and smart outlast the dumb and weak. Make companies more competitive by not intervening so big companies aren't so concerned about ignoring people's needs by making stupid business decisions because the government will just bail them out. Do this, and prices will go down from the competitiveness, people buy more due to cheaper prices, and the economy is much stronger.
 
iGav said:
It's madness that Ford aren't speeding up the introduction of the One Ford ideology. Get the Ka, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo in U.S. showrooms now, not 2010. Or they might as well just spin Ford Europe off now, before Ford U.S. sinks the whole shebang.
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Agreed, we need the Focus and Mondeo over here asap!
 
rhett7660 said:
Yikes....

Not saying it is going to happen, but can you imagine, no Ford or GM at all. Think about that. Wow. If this happens this will truelly be a sad day.
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Sort of like what will happen if the company survives.

Their euro products will hit the US with few changes, lights, bumper, and seats.

Share about 90% of content instead of the current 10% for the world platforms.

Think this is what will happen if they survive, they said they'd try to do it. Don't know how realistic it is.

---

NHTSA and the EPA are still a roadblock to bringing in a lightly changed vehicle.

So that hurdle should be smoothed and euro cars imported with as few changes as possible.

Though in the past this has led to warranty problems with our crap gas like sulfur contamination of the fuel system and exhaust. Plus any NHTSA shortcut would lead to the injury lawsuits for failing to meet US safety requirements.

Don't know how fast we can crash them for the NHTSA stamp, but the EPA will likely force a US engine into the euro car. So the same crap EPA numbers.
 
aren't the majority of (US) government vehicles Ford and GM? i would say like 95% (if not more) cop cars are Ford, and don't the Feds drive GM SUV's?

you would think they'd step in or something..looks like they'll need another source in a couple years if this is true!
 
I think that they should allow the loan, provided with conditions.

Possible conditions:

Meet new MPG regulations within 10 years or suffer massive penalties

Scale back SUV/Truck production to actually reflect the demand

R&D in alternative energy/hybrid car technologies


any suggestions?
 
let the market decide I have to agree. The quality of both is terrible,I drive Honda's and will continue to drive them you can't beat the long term reliability.
 
NT1440 said:
I think that they should allow the loan, provided with conditions.

Possible conditions:

Meet new MPG regulations within 10 years or suffer massive penalties

Scale back SUV/Truck production to actually reflect the demand

R&D in alternative energy/hybrid car technologies


any suggestions?
Click to expand...

GM is scaling back. They are shutting down 4 SUV and truck plants.

Bargsbeer said:
let the market decide I have to agree. The quality of both is terrible,I drive Honda's and will continue to drive them you can't beat the long term reliability.
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Long term reliability experience with my GM's have been outstanding. If you're basing your opinion on experiences 10-20 years ago, they are outdated and need to be updated.
 
The problem without intervention is if the companies end up failing, then thousands of Americans are without jobs, sending the economy into worse condition than it already is. And GM is scaling back SUV and truck production as much as they can.

Recent GM and Ford products actually have become more competitive with the Japanese. Cars such as the new Malibu, CTS, and eventually the Ka, Fiesta, Focus, and Mondeo are all quite nice. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy for GM as I agree that they were really stupid in their reliance on SUVs and the majority of cars are Japanese (although a new CTS is high on our list for future cars). The simple fact is is that without intervention our economy would be in even worse shape than it is which would obviously not be good.
 
quagmire said:
Volvo is owned by Ford. Take a look at the Taurus, it rides on a Volvo platform.
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I still haven't forgiven them for that. I used to love Volvos and always wanted one. Now I just own a Mazda and love it. I would own an Infinity if I could afford it. But I can't complain. A friend of mine has an Acura with almost 300k miles and it still runs great.
 
n8mac said:
I still haven't forgiven them for that. I used to love Volvos and always wanted one. Now I just own a Mazda and love it. I would own an Infinity if I could afford it. But I can't complain. A friend of mine has an Acura with almost 300k miles and it still runs great.
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Mazda is also owned by Ford.
 
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