Even my parents' 1998 Plymouth minivan doesn't seem as cheap as most Chevrolet models and it was bottom of the line. It has decent road manners and reasonable seats, which would be an improvement for many GM models.
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GM in Talks to buy Chrysler
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Even my parents' 1998 Plymouth minivan doesn't seem as cheap as most Chevrolet models and it was bottom of the line. It has decent road manners and reasonable seats, which would be an improvement for many GM models.
One thing thats allways bothered me about GM the past 20 years is the lack of styling, why must all GM cars be bland? And if they are lucky enough to have any styling GM wants 25-30K for them. Meanwhile over at Toyota the $12,000 Yaris has more styling then anything with a GM badge.
GM & Chrysler need to see why Honda & Toyota arent loosing billions? American short term profits management is the whole problem. These guys still havent figured out how to make a economical car nor want to. Gas is going back to $3 a gallon watch and see and GM/Chrysler/Ford have near nothing. My next car I think is going to be Toyota and I will be rooting for the Toyota's at Nascar
Go Michael!
GM & Chrysler need to see why Honda & Toyota arent loosing billions? American short term profits management is the whole problem. These guys still havent figured out how to make a economical car nor want to. Gas is going back to $3 a gallon watch and see and GM/Chrysler/Ford have near nothing. My next car I think is going to be Toyota and I will be rooting for the Toyota's at Nascar
Go Michael!
I am surprised GM is making offers.
I would think Hyundai would be very interested in picking up chrysler. They are extremely successful and are growing. "Hyundai is the new Honda". Picking up all those dealerships would be a pretty good deal for them.
I would think Hyundai would be very interested in picking up chrysler. They are extremely successful and are growing. "Hyundai is the new Honda". Picking up all those dealerships would be a pretty good deal for them.
No, just rose-coloured 3D glasses with built in speakers at a Toyota IMAX theater presentation.
But seriously, the some of the anti-GM stuff in here just sounds too ridiculous to actually be reasonable. GM has nothing as stylish as a Toyota Yaris? Come on now.
Styling is subjective. IMHO, if you think the Camry is stylish then the Aztek was a styling marvel. The Camry's and Accord( although I do like the Accord Coupe concept that was at NAIAS) are one of the blandest vehicles on the road today. The new Camry has more style, but they just ripped off Mazda for the front end styling. The RAV4-XL, my bad the new Highlander is ugly, IMHO. Although I wouldn't mind a Supra if it returned.
No, I agree with them. GM has nothing as badly-styled as the Yaris.
You're right, though. Japanese cars are not exactly known for styling. In the history of mankind, nobody has ever said the words, "Wow, look at that totally hot Camry!!"
But I also have to agree the Chrysler/Mercedes thing was a disaster from the git-go, starting with the supposed "equal partnership" that turned sour when it was clear to the Chrysler group that they'd been lied to about that. Then too, Chrysler has been working hard to increase its reliability, and Mercedes has been going the opposite direction in that category. Even when Mercedes tried to imitate those old Lee Iacocca commercials with their "Ask Dr. Z" spots...man, they were atrocious!
I think the only good thing that came out of the marriage was that some of Chrysler's styling rubbed off on the stodgier M-B models. Aside from that, I'll be glad to see them split.
Chrysler could do a lot worse than going with GM. I just hope that the company won't be subsumed into the GM brand line.
No, I agree with them. GM has nothing as badly-styled as the Yaris.
You're right, though. Japanese cars are not exactly known for styling. In the history of mankind, nobody has ever said the words, "Wow, look at that totally hot Camry!!"
But I also have to agree the Chrysler/Mercedes thing was a disaster from the git-go, starting with the supposed "equal partnership" that turned sour when it was clear to the Chrysler group that they'd been lied to about that. Then too, Chrysler has been working hard to increase its reliability, and Mercedes has been going the opposite direction in that category. Even when Mercedes tried to imitate those old Lee Iacocca commercials with their "Ask Dr. Z" spots...man, they were atrocious!
I think the only good thing that came out of the marriage was that some of Chrysler's styling rubbed off on the stodgier M-B models. Aside from that, I'll be glad to see them split.
Chrysler could do a lot worse than going with GM. I just hope that the company won't be subsumed into the GM brand line.
I agree. I can't wait to see a chrysler, dodge, and jeep version of the trail blazer/envoy/bravada/9-7x/Renier (sp?) and all the other branded versions of thouse.
For anyone who works for Chrysler (and a good deal of GM), short of closing up shop it could not be worse. If GM gets the deal it's looking for, it's going to be bad, real bad in the short term for White and Blue collar workers.
Maybe there will be an employee buyout? One can only hope.
The Aztek was a styling marvel and I'm sure that it's been used in classes as the highest example of what not to do. Even Buick's version didn't fix it 100 %.
I thought the Pontiac Vibe had better than average sheetmetal but the interior was such junk that I wouldn't even consider it. For some reason, I still believe that you shouldn't be aware of each part in the seat's construction when you're sitting on it.
Japanese styling goes in waves. Nissan had their go with curves and the cars sold well in the U.S.A. but they bombed in Japan, so things were changed. Mazda has more luck because they're a much smaller company. Honda's Acura TL could have been designed by Alfa Romeo but mostly, their cars are inoffensive and that's the nicest thing I can say.
On a slightly OT note- does anyone know how GM's european launch of Cadillac has gone? They released the SAAB based BLS a little while ago, yet i've not seen them about in the UK. Maybe they did better on the continent.
GM would be wise to follow Fords lead in Europe and invest in its premium brands. Look what Ford made with Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin. Cars that provide a serious alternative to the usual german buys. What have GM got in Europe? Cash-starved SAAB, the Cadillac BLS, and the Vauxhall/Opel Signum.
GM would be wise to follow Fords lead in Europe and invest in its premium brands. Look what Ford made with Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin. Cars that provide a serious alternative to the usual german buys. What have GM got in Europe? Cash-starved SAAB, the Cadillac BLS, and the Vauxhall/Opel Signum.
I'm not sure on the Volvo front, they were a considered a more premium brand before Ford took over, but I'd certainly agree on Land Rover and especially Aston Martin, though the latter really has less to do with Ford as such, and more the visionary Dr. Bez.
Better not mention Jaguar though... that's a real thorn in Ford side.
I still think Ford (the parent company) needs to consider spinning off Ford Europe as it's own company, otherwise... I can see them both going down.
haven't seen one so far
problem is that at least around here the germans are so dominant that going straight at them won't work.. it doesn't help that GM completely ruined the Opel brand 15-5 years ago with bland rebadged designs etc. which ruined the the reputation ... now opel has good designed cars with good quality but they simply don't sell as they did in the past (Opel is actually one of the oldest german brands)
a new premium car isn't going to cut it ... the problem is in the Golf and 3/C-class category not in the 7/E+ category...
Volvo are making desirable cars very profitably now, whereas before they were making boring cars reasonably profitably. Ford has had a positive influence on the desirablility of Volvo i think, much like they did with Land Rover.
As for Jaguar - at least Ford managed to improve the quality and the desirabliity of the cars. Wait until the next generation of saloons- more interesting designs will hopefully inch them towards the black.
I think Ford Europe should stage a coup of the US arm. I cant see Ford US spinning them off just so it can die quietly in a corner.
A premium car will help though - and they have the brand, SAAB, but their 3/c-class competitor, looks nice but 9-3 is ludicrously based upon the Vectra platform! Audi might be able to get away with their Golf/Passat based cars, but not SAAB on a plodding Vectra!
Volvo are making desirable cars very profitably now, whereas before they were making boring cars reasonably profitably. Ford has had a positive influence on the desirablility of Volvo i think, much like they did with Land Rover.
As for Jaguar - at least Ford managed to improve the quality and the desirabliity of the cars. Wait until the next generation of saloons- more interesting designs will hopefully inch them towards the black.
I think Ford Europe should stage a coup of the US arm. I cant see Ford US spinning them off just so it can die quietly in a corner.
the brand "Saab" isn't though quite as strong as 15 or 20 years ago .. actually i would consider the brand more on the "dead" side... even volvo has problems with sales and brand because they can't differentiate enough from ford
the new hatchback is a step in the right direction but it will not have enough of an impact in the market
the old saab = performance, volvo = safety is lost with other companies being stronger and stronger in those departments
there is a reason why Volvo Group sold their car business to ford and kept their Truck business which is still highly profitable with market leading products
Boy, I won't argue with you there! I was looking at it from a consumer standpoint, but yeah, it'll suck for the workers...and it'll start with the inevitable "removal of redundancies" that happens when two companies merge.
SAAB a dead brand? Are you sure? If VW could reverse Skoda's image problems to the extent that its affecting VWs sales, I'm sure Saab could do the same.
SAAB can still be a premium brand if they made premium cars- they still can if only GM would invest in them!
Its not like MG Rover, whose livelyhood relied on the 10 year old 25 and 45 models. That trully was and is a dead brand.
Unfortunately, this seems entirely likely. Look at what happened to Saturn. GM's management has an amazing talent for turning silk purses into sow's ears.
I've been to north america twice and I was quite curious about them Saturn cars- they seemed to be very different to alot of the wobbly designed cars on the road.
Whats so unique/different about them? Was it GMs attempt to be more like Honda or VW? How did they mess it up?
Saturn was created during the 1980s as a completely independent division of GM, with its own designers creating a unique platform and going their own way with styling. The company had finally recognized that they needed to wipe the slate clean. The gamble worked. The cars were an immediate hit -- they did not look like GM cars and were better built. The company developed a real following among American car buyers, and it began to look like GM had come up with a real answer to Honda and Toyota. After a few years of this (embarrassed by the success, I guess), GM's management decided that Saturn was too independent. Now, Saturn is just another division of GM, and their cars are based on the same GM platform as Pontiac, Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac.
Interesting. GM never heard of the expression "if it isnt broke, dont fix it". I didnt realise they were independant of GM, design wise. Now they're rebadging the competent yet-not-particularly-remarkable Vauxhall Astra.
Right. I think GM's management for this and other reasons is the very picture of incompetence, and why I cringe at the idea of them acquiring Chrysler. For better and worse, Chrysler makes unique cars. A few of them at least have been very good. If Chrysler becomes a division of GM, the brand will almost certainly be smothered by GM's top-heavy management style.
Not quite. Saturn was starved of product. Mostly due to the people at Chevy bitching about how Saturn is stealing their R&D money. They were still independent up till a few years ago. Now with products like the Sky, Aura, the Astra( think of what you want of it geese, but the Astra has sold pretty well in Europe) Saturn can hopefully regain some customers. Now the Aura is pretty much a reskinned G6 then it is Vectra. The new Vue is more Opelized with taking the similar interior to the Opel Antara. The Astra is a 100% Opel with a Saturn badge. I said it in another thread and I will say it again, there is nothing wrong with rebadging vehicles that aren't sold in the US already. It is called using your global assets in the now global industry. Saturn and Opel will be inter changeable by 2015 I think GM said. The Corsa will be coming over in the next generation. You see Toyota and Honda do the same thing. Some of the Scions are from Japan. The Fit was on sale in Japan since 2001 I think.
PS: The Vibe is pretty much a Matrix. Don't knock the Vibe and let the Matrix get away with a get away from bashing card.
PSS: Cadillac in Europe has been a failure. Escalade is big and no diesel is offered. The BLS is just a rebadged 9-3. The new CTS will be offered with a diesel so that might help. Chevy though has been gaining traction in Europe.
PSSS: Well job lay offs are what happens when a company shrinks. You shouldn't bash the company for it because they can't support them anymore. Anyway, most of them are still in the Job Bank getting paid full wages while sitting there butt on a couch.