GM is acting like scum

I’m totally with you on plastic != cheap.

There’s plenty of plastics, even in high[er] end models from [perceived] high-line brands like BMW - our $65K X5 had leather, vinyl, and an ample amount of plastics - same for the Lexus GS I owned. From my perspective, the plastics were very high quality, had nice feel, and the overall ergonomics, fit and finish were outstanding (i.e., it’s about how they’re used as much as using them in the first place).

The truth is (like the quoted above pointed out), there’s only so many durable materials you can source, and for some things like switch gear, electronics surfaces, bezels, handles, (high contact, rigid components) plastic is the best choice.

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I believe a Ford might be my next ride. :)

I have a Lincoln Navigator that rarely gets driven. We affectionately call it the "Yard Ornament". But my primary vehicle is a Toyota Prius. GM continues to make bad moves. Their hybrid offerings suck and they don't get it. We'll be bailing them out again.
 
I have a Lincoln Navigator that rarely gets driven. We affectionately call it the "Yard Ornament". But my primary vehicle is a Toyota Prius. GM continues to make bad moves. Their hybrid offerings suck and they don't get it. We'll be bailing them out again.

Well remember GM has a major trump card. Buick is an absolute monster in China. The only reason Buick still exists is China. Add to that their entry level offerings are much improved and a number of their gas engines have similar fuel economies to a Prius but without all the compromises.

Add to that the truck division is still quite strong and Cadillac's small cars are consistently higher rated than their German counterparts and I don't think we're in too much danger of having to bail out GM again.
 
Well remember GM has a major trump card. Buick is an absolute monster in China. The only reason Buick still exists is China. Add to that their entry level offerings are much improved and a number of their gas engines have similar fuel economies to a Prius but without all the compromises.

Add to that the truck division is still quite strong and Cadillac's small cars are consistently higher rated than their German counterparts and I don't think we're in too much danger of having to bail out GM again.

The new Buick line in the US looks quite nice.
 
I drove a Volt loaner and IMO it is a very slick car. The electric range is paltry but the plug-in class itself is relatively still a niche. Unfortunately the price point is still out of range of many buyers even with gargantuan tax payer funded rebates. Give the class some time and God bless the early adopters...tis a painful road to take.
 
I drove a Volt loaner and IMO it is a very slick car. The electric range is paltry but the plug-in class itself is relatively still a niche. Unfortunately the price point is still out of range of many buyers even with gargantuan tax payer funded rebates. Give the class some time and God bless the early adopters...tis a painful road to take.

Add to that polarizing styling. I'm not sure what I expect it to look like, but the exterior is certainly not for everyone. The price is just too high for what you get, even with the fact that it's electric for most regular drivers.
 
Revisiting my "quoted" notifications.

Not sure how me saying "we don't know yet what's going to happen" is somehow "my opinion." I'm pretty sure "we don't know yet what is going to happen in the future" is a factual statement 100% of the time, no matter how much you "think" you know what's going to happen.

To add insult to injury, we now we know that they were fined the maximum amount available. So much for YOUR assumption (and insistence) that they wouldn't be.

Recalls: I took my truck in to get the oil changed and they performed a "recall" - on the little motor that opens the back window. Apparently they were going out on some trucks, so they replaced it. Recalls like that go into that big, scary recall number. I wish there was a facepalm emoticon for the overuse of the recall numbers. By the way, Toyota led 2013 in recalls.

Maybe back when auto manufacturers ONLY recalled on life-threatening situations the recall number was relevant, but now it just means the manufacturer cares enough about quality to fix issues - even mundane ones - for free. I really dislike Toyota, but plenty of people seem to think they're at the opposite end of an imaginary spectrum from GM, so it's worth noting that... nope.

GM is hurting their brand? Doesn't look like it based on this. Look, I get it if you don't want to ever buy a GM product again. Fine. I never wanted to buy a GM product, ever, until my wife and I bought the vehicles we have now. I had no interest in GM's history, designs, quality, etc... until post-bankruptcy. And it had nothing to do with the bankruptcy itself, or politics (which seem to still be driving the bulk of the negativity here by many), or anything like that. Their quality improved based on 3rd party reporting, their designs were updated to be attractive to me, and other personal decisions went into why we purchased GM vehicles. It was about as unbiased a decision as a person can make.

Like I said in my original comment in this thread: the fact that 13 people died over something that should have been done differently is terrible. The fact they could have fixed it but chose not to is terrible. The fact that they tried to cover it up for years and even took steps to threaten the families is terrible. Those are all great reasons to never want to buy from GM again.

That being said... we take a risk every time we drive a mechanical device at high speeds around other people driving mechanical devices that something can go wrong. My tires may come apart and flip the vehicle. My ignition may get stuck and increase my speed unexpectedly. I may lose power steering mid lane change and misjudge my actions. The engine, which is combusting gasoline inside of it to fuel the machine, may catch fire. We take these risks.

When things go wrong, it's tragic, and you'd like to think that a company would take responsibility. But when they DO take responsibility, we have people like the OP who bash them for it. At some point, someone has to stand up and say "we screwed up, we're trying to fix it," which is going to bring to light all the things needing to be fixed. So we are supposed to then punish them for taking responsibility? I'm not sure that's a solid precedent to set. Why do you think they covered it up in the first place? To avoid the backlash. You feed the problem by feeding the backlash.

By all means, make your own personal purchasing choices. Tell others about why you did it. But inciting vindictiveness and outrage in a public forum is just feeding the problem. How about "I'll never buy GM again because I don't trust them, but at least they seem to be owning up to it now, that's a step in the right direction." Of course, that would involve rational, intelligent discourse, and that was never the intent on a thread titled "GM is acting like scum."
 
The "new" GM is the same as the "old" GM. Take this class action lawsuit currently in progress:

http://gotaclassaction.com/general-...uick-enclave-and-chevrolet-traverse-vehicles/

There are thousands of vehicles on the road where the power steering all of a sudden fails. I personally have a GMC Acadia (and my step-fater's Buick Enclave) that experienced this issue. The cost to repair? $1700. There are hundreds or even thousands of complaints on this issue, yet there hasn't been a recall yet.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
Well remember GM has a major trump card. Buick is an absolute monster in China. The only reason Buick still exists is China. Add to that their entry level offerings are much improved and a number of their gas engines have similar fuel economies to a Prius but without all the compromises.

Add to that the truck division is still quite strong and Cadillac's small cars are consistently higher rated than their German counterparts and I don't think we're in too much danger of having to bail out GM again.

The new Buick line in the US looks quite nice.

It does. In actuality, Buicks are rebadged version of GMs German brand, Opel.

Ahh Buick.. Like Oldsmobile and hearing the words "Lincoln Continental" together, bring you back to old memories of white-walled tires, hubcaps with spokes, frames long as boats, and doing your best impression of Billy Dee Williams or Ray Parker, Jr. holding a bottle of Lowenbrau, Schlitz, or Colt 45 Malt Liquor while driving 3mph on a Sunday afternoon.

Ahh.. those were the times.

Seriously, my parents still have a 1983 Buick LeSabre sitting in the garage. Clean at that, maroon red, with the only modification to it being a sunroof being installed. One of those rides that Snoop Dogg would love to put some hydraulics in and drop it. I'm surprised to see that that is one of the brands still left. However, with all that has happened to GM, it reinforces the fact that my move away from them was a good one. Hopefully they get their act together.

BL.
 
I drove a Volt loaner and IMO it is a very slick car. The electric range is paltry but the plug-in class itself is relatively still a niche. Unfortunately the price point is still out of range of many buyers even with gargantuan tax payer funded rebates. Give the class some time and God bless the early adopters...tis a painful road to take.

Unfortunately, the Chevrolet Volt gets less mpg than the Prius for anyone with more than a 35 mile commute. In addition the Volt requires premium gasoline which costs more.
 
Unfortunately, the Chevrolet Volt gets less mpg than the Prius for anyone with more than a 35 mile commute. In addition the Volt requires premium gasoline which costs more.

You're separating the miles you drive on electric and on the generator. Yes just on the generator alone, you get about 37 MPG. But, the Volt isn't for you if you always rely on the gas generator. You can't just throw away the miles you drive on the battery. When you rightfully include the electric miles, owners have averaged 149 MPG with the Volt( averaging three model years of the Volt on owners reporting on fueleconomy.gov)

The Volt is not for everyone. If your commute is at the point where the miles on electric+gas will equal less than the Prius's 50 MPG combined rating, then the Volt isn't for you.
 
You're separating the miles you drive on electric and on the generator. Yes just on the generator alone, you get about 37 MPG. But, the Volt isn't for you if you always rely on the gas generator. You can't just throw away the miles you drive on the battery. When you rightfully include the electric miles, owners have averaged 149 MPG with the Volt( averaging three model years of the Volt on owners reporting on fueleconomy.gov)

The Volt is not for everyone. If your commute is at the point where the miles on electric+gas will equal less than the Prius's 50 MPG combined rating, then the Volt isn't for you.

Not to mention the higher priced premium gasoline and four passenger limitation.
 
Not to mention the higher priced premium gasoline and four passenger limitation.

The price between regular and premium per fill up is ~$4. Hardly a budget buster difference and the amount of time in between fill ups also neglects the price difference. And you're filling up only a 9 gallon tank vs a 12-16 gallon tank also helps. Not going to Starbucks once a week will easily net that $4 back as well.... Do you even know why the Volt requires premium?

I can hardly remember when I had more than 2 people in my car..... My car is 7 years old and the back seat still looks brand new.

I will repeat, the Volt isn't for everyone. But it hardly is a bad car.
 
The price between regular and premium per fill up is ~$4. Hardly a budget buster difference and the amount of time in between fill ups also neglects the price difference. And you're filling up only a 9 gallon tank vs a 12-16 gallon tank also helps. Not going to Starbucks once a week will easily net that $4 back as well.... Do you even know why the Volt requires premium?

I can hardly remember when I had more than 2 people in my car..... My car is 7 years old and the back seat still looks brand new.

I will repeat, the Volt isn't for everyone. But it hardly is a bad car.

Unfortunately, none of Chevrolet's hybrids can compete with Ford, Honda or Toyota. GM doesn't get it. Which is a shame because they had the first EV.
 
Unfortunately, none of Chevrolet's hybrids can compete with Ford, Honda or Toyota. GM doesn't get it. Which is a shame because they had the first EV.

Two different type of hybrids. More like you're the one that doesn't get it as seen as the constant moving lines. " Only on the generator it gets 37 MPG!" That gets dispelled, " Well it requires premium and only seats 4!!!" That gets dispelled. So now it is, " It just sucks because I say so!"
 
Two different type of hybrids. More like you're the one that doesn't get it as seen as the constant moving lines. " Only on the generator it gets 37 MPG!" That gets dispelled, " Well it requires premium and only seats 4!!!" That gets dispelled. So now it is, " It just sucks because I say so!"

I think they'd need to get the Volt up to at least a 200HP electric motor plus a range of about 50 miles on just electric to really get my attention at $40k+. From what I've read, the Volt drives very similar to a Prius (i.e. dog slow compared to my WRX, which admittedly doesn't get very good gas mileage) yet the price plus a 240V charger puts it approaching the range of a Porsche Boxster. Frankly, if I can afford $44K+ for a new car, I can probably afford to buy some gasoline. My range to work is about 24 miles round trip, which sounds good for a Volt, but that's precisely why I don't mind 23MPG in the WRX. Not having to drive as far = less gas usage and 305HP with AWD in a sporty platform = FUN whereas the only "fun" you get to have with a Volt is saving gas mileage, but how much do you save over the life you own the vehicle if your up-front costs are $16K more than my WRX (which is the limited trim, make that $22k with basic trim)??? That's a lot of gas savings needed to make up $16,000-22,000! Plus I'm driving a grandpa car in the mean time. Thanks, but no thanks.

And no, I don't like the Prius or Hondas either, although at least their somewhat lower starting costs offset the gas difference a bit, but if you own them long enough, you'll need to replace the batteries and that's a cost people don't often figure into their gas mileage ratings long term either.

I've also heard that unless you enjoy freezing in the winter, your gas mileage is going to take a tumble in ANY electric vehicle the moment you turn on the heater plus any extreme heat and cold negatively affect the range (e.g. 13 mile loss of that 38 maximum range and that's if you drive like someone GREAT Grandmother, even less if you want to accelerate "normally"). They really need better battery technology at this point (a LOT better, IMO).

Still, I suppose if you have to be "green" to feel good bout yourself, you're pretty much stuck with paying through the nose for things like solar heating systems, electric vehicles and LED light bulbs (CFLs are bad as they contain mercury, a human neurotoxin and while it's a small amount, they inevitably end up in landfills as most people don't recycle and it adds up over time. At work, it costs a pretty penny to recycle vast numbers of fluorescent tubes to not pollute with all that mercury. LEDs are nice, but are still pricey in the short term (although slowly coming down).
 
I think they'd need to get the Volt up to at least a 200HP electric motor plus a range of about 50 miles on just electric to really get my attention at $40k+. From what I've read, the Volt drives very similar to a Prius (i.e. dog slow compared to my WRX, which admittedly doesn't get very good gas mileage) yet the price plus a 240V charger puts it approaching the range of a Porsche Boxster. Frankly, if I can afford $44K+ for a new car, I can probably afford to buy some gasoline. My range to work is about 24 miles round trip, which sounds good for a Volt, but that's precisely why I don't mind 23MPG in the WRX. Not having to drive as far = less gas usage and 305HP with AWD in a sporty platform = FUN whereas the only "fun" you get to have with a Volt is saving gas mileage, but how much do you save over the life you own the vehicle if your up-front costs are $16K more than my WRX (which is the limited trim, make that $22k with basic trim)??? That's a lot of gas savings needed to make up $16,000-22,000! Plus I'm driving a grandpa car in the mean time. Thanks, but no thanks.

Volt is now $35K without the $7500 tax credit.

Doesn't sound like you're the target buyer for the Volt. Like I have been saying, it's not for everyone.


I've also heard that unless you enjoy freezing in the winter, your gas mileage is going to take a tumble in ANY electric vehicle the moment you turn on the heater plus any extreme heat and cold negatively affect the range (e.g. 13 mile loss of that 38 maximum range and that's if you drive like someone GREAT Grandmother, even less if you want to accelerate "normally"). They really need better battery technology at this point (a LOT better, IMO).

Yes electric range will suffer during the winter. The Volt's battery pack is heated via liquid( and cooled in the summer) to help reduce the loss, but none the less you will see a loss of range. Just like in the winter, you will see a decrease in fuel economy due to the winter blend of gas, the engine takes longer to get to its optimum operating temperature, the cats will take longer to heat up, etc in regular cars.

I will repeat, the Volt is not for everyone. But just because you would not buy one, does not make it a bad car.
 
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Unfortunately, none of Chevrolet's hybrids can compete with Ford, Honda or Toyota. GM doesn't get it. Which is a shame because they had the first EV.

Exactly! I think the nimh battery equipped gen-II EV1's had way more range than anything available today and even the EV1's with old school lead-acid batteries eclipsed everything currently available. That tech was almost two decades ago!

I'd like to know how much money is being paid out to keep EV ranges so low.
:mad:
 
Two different type of hybrids. More like you're the one that doesn't get it as seen as the constant moving lines. " Only on the generator it gets 37 MPG!" That gets dispelled, " Well it requires premium and only seats 4!!!" That gets dispelled. So now it is, " It just sucks because I say so!"

What got dispelled? The Chevrolet Volt seats four. Who dispelled that? I mean you can shove a couple kids in the trunk but the law enforcement isn't going to like that much. The Chevrolet Volt requires Premium Gasoline. Who can dispel that? It says it right on the gas tank filler and on the dashboard.

On the generator it gets 37 mpg. Yes, the Chevrolet Volt wins in the coolness factor over a Toyota Prius but that's the only win it gets. My 2000 Honda Insight Hybrid was a 3 cylinder gas vehicle with the hybrid battery for a extra push. It got 55 mpg. My 2011 Toyota Prius an an electric vehicle with a gasoline generator that gets 50 mpg. Two completely different hybrid systems.

For the Chevrolet Volt to work, you'd pretty much have to have a 10-15 mile commute or less and never use it on a vacation. My next hybrid will either be the Toyota Avalon or the Lincoln MkZ.
 
For the Chevrolet Volt to work, you'd pretty much have to have a 10-15 mile commute or less and never use it on a vacation. My next hybrid will either be the Toyota Avalon or the Lincoln MkZ.


For me, I would be able to use the Volt for my daily commute and typical errands all while on battery power and would very rarely need gas. I think that beats the Prius which always needs gas no matter what. It all depends on your use, I doubt anybody with a 100 mile commute is buying a Volt.

I would never own a Volt, or even worse, a Prius though. I'm perfectly happy in my new WRX, even if it gets MPG in the mid 20s and requires premium.
 
.... Yes, the Chevrolet Volt wins in the coolness factor over a Toyota Prius but that's the only win it gets. .... My 2011 Toyota Prius an an electric vehicle with a gasoline generator that gets 50 mpg. ....

.... the Prius which always needs gas no matter what. It all depends on your use, I doubt anybody with a 100 mile commute is buying a Volt.

I would never own a Volt, or even worse, a Prius though. ....

Interestingly, a huge proportion of the taxi fleet in Vancouver, BC are Priuses (Priuii?). The cab drivers I've talked to love them. They are tough, durable, and can stand up to the worst kind of driving a car can be subjected to outside of off-roading. I would suspect the regenerative braking system makes a huge difference in constant stop-and-go traffic compared to a straight gas car. Plus, they have a lot of luggage room. Much more than I had suspected.
 
What got dispelled? The Chevrolet Volt seats four. Who dispelled that? I mean you can shove a couple kids in the trunk but the law enforcement isn't going to like that much. The Chevrolet Volt requires Premium Gasoline. Who can dispel that? It says it right on the gas tank filler and on the dashboard.

Yes fact it can only seat four. If that limitation matters to you because you're a family of 5, then the Volt isn't for you. Yes it requires premium, but it isn't a big deal. The difference between regular and premium per fill up is $4. Combined with the fact it is a smaller tank than the usual car, you'll be filling up less, and the fact skipping your $4 latte from Starbucks once a week will net you that difference, the fact it requires premium isn't a big deal. Premium gas doesn't go bad as fast as regular. Considering owners have gone a year on their original tank of gas, that's a good thing.

I said dispelled because you're using it as reasons as the car sucks and is a horrible car. As I have been saying, the Volt isn't for everyone. If the Volt doesn't fit your needs because you need a car that can fit 5 people, then fine. But don't come here saying the Volt sucks and GM doesn't get it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle.

I don't like Toyota's. They are the most boring vehicles on the road. They put you to sleep looking at it and driving it. But I am not going to come here and say Toyota sucks and they are horrible cars because I would not buy one. They are good reliable cars. But, they are just not for me.


On the generator it gets 37 mpg. Yes, the Chevrolet Volt wins in the coolness factor over a Toyota Prius but that's the only win it gets. My 2000 Honda Insight Hybrid was a 3 cylinder gas vehicle with the hybrid battery for a extra push. It got 55 mpg. My 2011 Toyota Prius an an electric vehicle with a gasoline generator that gets 50 mpg. Two completely different hybrid systems.

So you will never recharge the Volt's battery every day and you'll always rely on the generator? Then clearly the Volt isn't for you. But, you need to stop separating the miles people drive on electric and gas. Like I posted, people have averaged 149 MPG with the Volt when you properly combine the miles on electric and gas.

Your Prius is not an electric vehicle. The gas motor and electric motor work together to propel the Prius. It's a hybrid. Not so with the Volt. The electric motor solely propels it.
 
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Yes fact it can only seat four. If that limitation matters to you because you're a family of 5, then the Volt isn't for you. Yes it requires premium, but it isn't a big deal. The difference between regular and premium per fill up is $4. Combined with the fact it is a smaller tank than the usual car, you'll be filling up less, and the fact skipping your $4 latte from Starbucks once a week will net you that difference, the fact it requires premium isn't a big deal. Premium gas doesn't go bad as fast as regular. Considering owners have gone a year on their original tank of gas, that's a good thing.

I said dispelled because you're using it as reasons as the car sucks and is a horrible car. As I have been saying, the Volt isn't for everyone. If the Volt doesn't fit your needs because you need a car that can fit 5 people, then fine. But don't come here saying the Volt sucks and GM doesn't get it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle.

I don't like Toyota's. They are the most boring vehicles on the road. They put you to sleep looking at it and driving it. But I am not going to come here and say Toyota sucks and they are horrible cars because I would not buy one. They are good reliable cars. But, they are just not for me.

So you will never recharge the Volt's battery every day and you'll always rely on the generator? Then clearly the Volt isn't for you. But, you need to stop separating the miles people drive on electric and gas. Like I posted, people have averaged 149 MPG with the Volt when you properly combine the miles on electric and gas.

Your Prius is not an electric vehicle. The gas motor and electric motor work together to propel the Prius. It's a hybrid. Not so with the Volt. The electric motor solely propels it.

Please reread my posts and actually try and comprehend them rather than just try and argue. What I have said is that I'm disappointed in it as GM's offering to compete in this market. I've had two GM EV's. The first was a GM EV-1 (2nd generation) two year lease. Excellent vehicle. It got just over a hundred miles per charge. Loved it. The second was an Chevrolet S-10 EV. Not a good experience.

Mathematically the Chevrolet Volt doesn't make sense for someone that drives 100 miles per day. Here's a simple and clear comparison:

Toyota Prius ($24,200 MSRP) will use 2 gallons of regular gasoline ($3.649 AAA Fuel Gauge average today) costing $7.298 per day multiplied by 5 days a week, times 48 weeks a year (I take 4 weeks vacation) will come to $1751 per year.

Chevrolet Volt ($34,185 MSRP minus $7,500 maximum tax credit for a $26,685 MSRP) will use 1.675 gallons per day of premium gasoline ($4.007 AAA Fueld Gauge average today) costing $6.7144 per day multiplied by 5 days a week times 48 weeks a year will come to $1611 per year and that is after getting the 38 miles on electric (which is maximum range under perfect conditions) per day. The estimated electric cost is about $2.28 per night to charge it. Let's just call that $500 per year.

The Prius will cost $1751 per year while the Volt will cost $2111. Not to mention an additional $10k at purchase (you may get $7500 back on your taxes). GM can do better. Of course, now we have to worry that if GM files another bankruptcy they won't want to honor the warranties of cars made prior to that bankruptcy.
 
Please reread my posts and actually try and comprehend them rather than just try and argue. What I have said is that I'm disappointed in it as GM's offering to compete in this market. I've had two GM EV's. The first was a GM EV-1 (2nd generation) two year lease. Excellent vehicle. It got just over a hundred miles per charge. Loved it. The second was an Chevrolet S-10 EV. Not a good experience.

Mathematically the Chevrolet Volt doesn't make sense for someone that drives 100 miles per day. Here's a simple and clear comparison:

Toyota Prius ($24,200 MSRP) will use 2 gallons of regular gasoline ($3.649 AAA Fuel Gauge average today) costing $7.298 per day multiplied by 5 days a week, times 48 weeks a year (I take 4 weeks vacation) will come to $1751 per year.

Chevrolet Volt ($34,185 MSRP minus $7,500 maximum tax credit for a $26,685 MSRP) will use 1.675 gallons per day of premium gasoline ($4.007 AAA Fueld Gauge average today) costing $6.7144 per day multiplied by 5 days a week times 48 weeks a year will come to $1611 per year and that is after getting the 38 miles on electric (which is maximum range under perfect conditions) per day. The estimated electric cost is about $2.28 per night to charge it. Let's just call that $500 per year.

The Prius will cost $1751 per year while the Volt will cost $2111. Not to mention an additional $10k at purchase (you may get $7500 back on your taxes). GM can do better. Of course, now we have to worry that if GM files another bankruptcy they won't want to honor the warranties of cars made prior to that bankruptcy.

And you need to reread my posts as well. I have been saying the whole freaking time the Volt isn't for everyone. I agree if someone has a 100 mile commute, the Volt is clearly not the for them. But, it does not mean it is a bad car or GM doesn't get it.

But there are people out there that the Volt is perfect for like myself. 95% of the time I would never need the gas generator to turn on( outside of it doing its maintenance mode). There are times where I head to the airport or to Costco that requires me to drive 50-70 miles, but that is not very often.
 
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