Going into Business

[63dot]

AFAIK, Law is not offered for undergrad, it is a grad program. You can however do pre-Law

In most countries outside of the USA, the LL.B is the internationally recognized law degree that allows you to practice law. In some of those countries, however, some schools require a BA or BS, or AA or AS first.

Other countries allow for entering the LL.B program right after high school.

In the US, we are unfortunately in one of those countries which require, in most states, to have four years of college (BA/BS) first and the law degree is usually called a JD, but some US schools still use the LL.B moniker which equates to the same degree.

Some states, like California, allow for entrance without a bachelor's for some second tier schools that are Cal Bar accredited or non accredited (requiring a 1st year bar exam called the baby bar).

But some top schools like Tulane allow for entrants without a bachelor's degree or four years of college.

Also, being an apprentice to sit for the bar is a non law school option (www.calbar.org)

So law is more flexible in entrance requirements vs. the MBA which always require a bachelor's degree (as far as I know). And some competitive MBA programs won't consider you unless you are a legacy, but usually have to have post-bachelor's work experience.

A legacy is if one or both of your parents went to grad school where you are applying or made a very generous donation. Admissions laws require no more than 1/3 of students of any stripe to be legacies.

But don't knock legacies as some become Presidents.

 

[dukebound85]

That's definitely a misconception on your part.

Not really, EVERY MBA program I looked into wants real world industry experience.

College education doesn't give you that, not even close

 

[63dot]

That's definitely a misconception on your part.

When I went to law school, they wanted a bachelor's and a LSAT score.

I also went to MBA school and every student there had at least three years experience. We were only rated #6 in California so they were lenient. But try and get into Stanford with just three years work experience? No ***** way.

I didn't go to medical school, so do they require something else besides a bachelor's degree? I don't know the answer to this one. My friend got his degree in biology and went straight to medical school. But do they require real world experience after a bachelor's?

 

[niuniu]

Not really, EVERY MBA program I looked into wants real world industry experience.

College education doesn't give you that, not even close

I agree with this also. Both my gf and I have researched MBA programs, and every good program in the UK wants XX years of business experience. Many, even the top MBA programs in the world will take you without you having an undergrad degree - they're looking for business experience. MBAs aren't little research degrees..

OP, call up some MBA schools and they'll tell you the score. Don't have to take our word for it

 

[renewed]

Not really, EVERY MBA program I looked into wants real world industry experience.

College education doesn't give you that, not even close

But assuming that all you need is a bachelor degree for Medical School or Law School? Hardly. You definitely have to have social skills as well. In both law and medicine you interact with people daily. You definitely need social experience; I mean heck even the interview processes to get in are a test in social skills.

Also, since I know more about it then law, a bachelor degree is not the only experience you need for medical school. On top of socializing you also need more skill sets as well other then hitting the books. If you are truly interested in medicine and want to succeed you need research experience, volunteering experience, etc...

You don't just sit and stare at a book all day. Yes, business students need to build skill sets out of the classroom but the same holds true for other upper-level majors, degrees and career paths as well.

 

[63dot]

But assuming that all you need is a bachelor degree for Medical School or Law School? Hardly. You definitely have to have social skills as well. In both law and medicine you interact with people daily. You definitely need social experience; I mean heck even the interview processes to get in are a test in social skills.

Also, since I know more about it then law, a bachelor degree is not the only experience you need for medical school. On top of socializing you also need more skill sets as well other then hitting the books. If you are truly interested in medicine and want to succeed you need research experience, volunteering experience, etc...

You don't just sit and stare at a book all day. Yes, business students need to build skill sets out of the classroom but the same holds true for other upper-level majors, degrees and career paths as well.

This I can agree with.

 

[duncanapple]

Coming from a guy who has an MBA, I don't think you need much/any work experience to go through the program. I did it within my first year out of school (mostly because my employer paid for me to go through the whole thing, 100% on them) and I can't honestly tell you after my 6+ years of work experience thus far that it would have mattered if I was doing it now or 5+ years ago when I did.

At the end of the day - and here is a hard truth - an MBA or any business degree is just a sheet of paper, and in some cases a ticket "in." The reason why lots of people can go to school and coast by is because its nearly a common sense major. I think the value of college or post secondary education is in the professions such as medicine, engineering, etc where they are teaching actual SKILLS. At best a business degree (BS, MBA, PhD, etc) is all about teaching you how to multitask, seek out answers, use your head, etc. Try to use a "BCG Matrix" in the real world and you will get laughed at.

Indeed look at the most successful entrepreneurs - they actually have a real skill beyond "business." Your company, after all, has to actually DO or MAKE something. If I had it to do all over again, I would study engineering and then get an MBA if I wanted to work in a corporation in any sort of leadership position (remember what I said about it being a "ticket in"). If I started my own company I would skip the MBA all together.

 

[63dot]

At the end of the day - and here is a hard truth - an MBA or any business degree is just a sheet of paper

This is true, but if you went to a private MBA school, that paper which is still a paper, cost considerably more. Classes were $1400 each and now I think they charge $2200 per 3 unit class at my overpriced alma mater.

There are some MBA schools which are not ranked and not only do they actually take people right out of a BA or BS, and they let you knock off most of the first year with your senior year of your bachelor's and even write off classes to "life experience". I live near one such school, and while they are unknown and have that 15 month MBA dovetailing with a bachelor's, what's interesting is that 10-20 years down the line, nobody cares if you went to a ranked school or an unranked one.

If I had known that, I would have gone to the school which gave you an MBA with just 8 classes instead of 16 classes. The unranked MBA school is still WASC accredited just like my school, and nobody will care in the end if your school made the Gourman Report of the most elite 100 MBA programs in the world. I don't put it on my resume, and as far as people are concerned, Gourman is a person who likes to eat a lot of food.

Around my parts, only two schools matter on the MBA front and many people consider the rest a waste of money. That would be Stanford and Haas, both schools which regularly get students with years of post-BA/BS experience.

Stanford, the better of the two, doesn't officially have a minimum GPA requirement. A stong GMAT helps, but they like to see CPA, VP, or MA/MS after your name.

To the OP:

I have my own business and have been self employed for over 20 years and the truth is I didn't even need one college class beyond high school. What got me into business was some old man college dropout (who I worked for) telling me he was such a hotshot entrepreneur with 20+ years experience of doing it all by himself and said I could never be like him. So, off I went to prove him wrong.

What I did get from undergraduate school was a free exchange of ideas which made me more liberal. What I got from MBA school was the other political viewpoint most of the time. And law school, they're just outright Marxists!

 

[RudyGrow]

The whole reason I want to go to a high ranked MBA school is so that you get a job after you get your MBA.

Tuck is involved with 700 other companies and 70% of its alumni has been in a high ranked position within those businesses. Thats what I'm aiming for. I don't want to get my degrees and have to go around, applying all over the place and hoping to get hired.

 

[DaveSW]

Okay, so I plan on going in business consulting in the future. I was wondering what are some pre-requisites that universities like to see?

I don't come from a rich family, and will most likely need a scholarship to whichever university I choose (I'm aiming for the University of Virginia for a Bachelors degree, then a MBA at Tuck.)

Right now, I'm 15 years old, in Grade 10 and I have a GPA of about 3.85, getting 100% in advanced math (starting Calculus 2 years ahead of the rest of my grade). I've sold multiple domains and that's whats making me money at the moment. During the summer, I've been offered a paid internship at a computer design company punching in numbers or at the IT department of a shipping company building and programming computers. Will these have any use or should I just work at McDonald's for minimum wage?

Basically, I want to know what you did extra to get into the university/get the scholarship.

Thanks!

Top MBA programs are looking for people that have the potential to become future business leaders. You need to show them things that you've done in your life that demonstrates leadership, creativity, success despite hardships, success & failures (and what you learned from them, did it make you a better person, etc.), hard work, integrity, passion etc.

Also, I can't stress this enough, you need to differentiate yourself from other candidates. this is the most important thing top MBA schools consider IMO.


1) community service / volunteer work that shows leadership/creativity/passion/etc.

2) international experience (volunteer work in africa, latin america, etc.)

3) success despite hardship

4) any unusual/interesting/life-changing experience that influenced you to become a better person/leader/etc.

 

[DaveSW]

Not really, EVERY MBA program I looked into wants real world industry experience.

College education doesn't give you that, not even close

not true. Stanford GSB accepts college grad with little or no industry experience.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

not true. Stanford GSB accepts college grad with little or no industry experience.

Yeah, but how many do they accept? Its a pretty small number when compared to students that have work experience. There are many business schools that admit a few students without any work experience, its just not particualarly common at top programs (even if the program says they will consider applicants without any work experience). A MBA is mostly a networking and problem solving degree, not a "oh my God I've obtained vast amounts of knowledge I never had degree," consequently they tend to seek out people with work experience, problem solving skills, and industry connections for admissions.

The OP needs to worry about college and work before he worries about an MBA program. By the time you get done with a few more years of high school and four years of college, you might have little to no interest in doing an MBA. Do well in college, get a job for a while, and then decide if you need/want an MBA.

 

[DaveSW]

Yeah, but how many do they accept? Its a pretty small number when compared to students that have work experience. There are many business schools that admit a few students without any work experience, its just not particualarly common at top programs (even if the program says they will consider applicants without any work experience).

The OP needs to worry about college and work before he worries about an MBA program. By the time you get done with a few more years of high school and four years of college, you might have little to no interest in doing an MBA. Do well in college, get a job for a while, and then decide if you need/want an MBA.

true.

get real world industry experience, plus any type of community service, extra curricular activities, etc.

differentiate, differentiate, differentiate...

 

[rhsgolfer33]

true.

get real world industry experience, plus any type of community service, extra curricular activities, etc.

differentiate, differentiate, differentiate...

Exactly, if you offer a unique perspective/goal/experiences/etc, whether its college admissions or MBA admissions, you'll increase your chances of getting in.

 

[Ttownbeast]

The whole reason I want to go to a high ranked MBA school is so that you get a job after you get your MBA.

Tuck is involved with 700 other companies and 70% of its alumni has been in a high ranked position within those businesses. Thats what I'm aiming for. I don't want to get my degrees and have to go around, applying all over the place and hoping to get hired.

Yah good luck with that........you will still have to apply all over the place--having an education is not a guarantee of job placement. You can still find yourself in the situation of saying "do you want fries with that?"

 

[renewed]

Yah good luck with that........you will still have to apply all over the place--having an education is not a guarantee of job placement. You can still find yourself in the situation of saying "do you want fries with that?"

Man, the optimism is just oozing from this post.

 

[63dot]

not true. Stanford GSB accepts college grad with little or no industry experience.

I live here.

OK, I call BS.

Name one person who has done this who is NOT a legacy. And do you think Stanford accepts people to their medical school because they own a season DVD set of ER? Maybe I can get accepted to Stanford because I have one of their baseball caps.

That being said...

I have met my share of exceptional students. They do exist but they are as rare as hen's teeth. One kid, yes a kid, I saw was a freshman in college (Monterey Peninsula College in the south Bay Area) who was 12. Genius, but totally disruptive as he wore an Indiana Jones costume to class and cracked his whip. And just when I thought I saw it all, I saw an 11 year old graduate with their AA and they were headed to an Ivy.

Now that these two boys are in their 30s, I don't know if an early education made a difference overall. They could have missed out on the high school experience, dating, and the whole crazy teenage thing.

 

[paolo-]

I didn't realize the insanely high GPA for UVA I was also wondering what would be better: Taking a Commerce-based Cegep program (I'm in Canada, and Cegep is kinda like Pre-College, instead of Grade 12) or going into the International Baccalaureate program?

I'm guessing you're talking of a cegep level IB program and are from Québec ?

Screw both, once in uni, they don't mean anything. You seem to have a pretty good idea of what you want to do. Some universities, especially in Ontario, accept students straight from the Québec equivalent of grade 11 if you have fairly good grade. I did my highschool in Québec and then went straight to the University of Ottawa. You just need an average of 85% in 5 important courses. If you really know what you want that could be your ticket to get into uni. Once you're in, you're in. You could start a first year in such a university and hope to be able to get transfered to what ever university you wish to go to.

But I'll stand with what duncanapple said, an actual skill and good experience will get you further than business school. As far as I'm concerned business student like wearing suits to class and have class teaching them how someone had the brilliant idea of giving his name to something most other people would just call common sense. But that's just me, an engineering student who had one mandatory business class *yawn*.

But to come back to your original question, as for business consulting, I think the only you could do true business consulting is if you had a lot of experience managing multiple businesses. For things that come close, a bac in communications could be very good.

 

[sushi]

Consulting is not a business, it is getting paid to offer an opinion on a business.

If you lack the experience in a field no amount of degrees or certifications will help you.

This is spot on.

To be a consultant, you must first be successful at something, then you can consult in that same area.

 

[DaveSW]

I live here.

OK, I call BS.

Name one person who has done this who is NOT a legacy. And do you think Stanford accepts people to their medical school because they own a season DVD set of ER? Maybe I can get accepted to Stanford because I have one of their baseball caps.

That being said...

I have met my share of exceptional students. They do exist but they are as rare as hen's teeth. One kid, yes a kid, I saw was a freshman in college (Monterey Peninsula College in the south Bay Area) who was 12. Genius, but totally disruptive as he wore an Indiana Jones costume to class and cracked his whip. And just when I thought I saw it all, I saw an 11 year old graduate with their AA and they were headed to an Ivy.

Now that these two boys are in their 30s, I don't know if an early education made a difference overall. They could have missed out on the high school experience, dating, and the whole crazy teenage thing.

you live here? great we're neighbors. so does that make you an expert?

Medical School != MBA

Yes I know someone. MY SISTER.

 

[63dot]

you live here? great we're neighbors. so does that make you an expert?

Medical School != MBA

Yes I know someone. MY SISTER.

I know a lot of people who went to the Farm, but never someone into their GSB right after a bachelor's degree. I will take your word. Congrats to your sister. I pay a lot of attention to Stanford since they got $300K of my money. That does not make me an expert, but you would think I would notice something like, let's say, a 21 or 22 year old MBA student there.

 

[niuniu]

I had a look around some of the American MBAs this morning. It looks like some do quota in a number of students directly from college. Yale (as one example) has a Silver Scholars program, where they take a 'handful' of college grads with no work experience. They say average full time work experience is 4 to 5 years. However the range is a lot broader than that.



http://mba.yale.edu/MBA/admissions/apply/college_seniors.shtml

 

[63dot]

I had a look around some of the American MBAs this morning. It looks like some do quota in a number of students directly from college. Yale (as one example) has a Silver Scholars program, where they take a 'handful' of college grads with no work experience. They say average full time work experience is 4 to 5 years. However the range is a lot broader than that.



http://mba.yale.edu/MBA/admissions/apply/college_seniors.shtml

This is what you will find with highly ranked MBA programs. If it's a decent school, but not ranked top 10 nationally, then maybe they will take, on average people with "less than 4 to 5 years" experience. Unranked MBA programs, and some online programs, are the most likely to take somebody fresh out of college who is 21 or 22.

Now if you are somebody like me, who finished college later than the typical college student in their late 20s and spent those several years working in the real world with entrepreneurial and managerial experience (the type MBA programs like the best), then yes, a pretty good MBA program will take you right after your bachelor's like they did in my case. But had I done college before working and I was 22 years old, my school would have never considered me for their MBA program and I had a killer SAT and good grades in college. That's why I was so shocked when DaveSW knew somebody who went to a top 10 MBA school right after their bachelor's degree.

I had only seen this, among the many MBAs I know, with unranked MBA schools.

Among the two schools in northern California which are top 10 (Stanford) and top 15 (Haas) consistently over the last 30 years with Princeton Review, Gourman, and real educational organizations (not the pop culture Business Week beauty contest), the people I know who went there had close to ten years work experience. One was outstanding in that they climbed high up onto the ladder through HP, and the other was the youngest business owner in a city which is notoriously difficult to succeed in who defied all odds and started an expensive business at age 19 or 20, and by then he already had his BA.

With extraordinary people like that, it's what I have seen here with the people who get into Stanford and Haas, not some 22 year old kid who is booksmart who got As and Bs in their undergraduate years. I don't want to OP to think they can walk into a top 10 MBA program or a top 14 law school easily. In 99% percent of the cases you either have to have real world experience for an MBA for a top 10, or had done some extraordinary high school activities of a monumental nature to get into law school as they will take you right after a BA for law school.

 

[RudyGrow]

Wow, I really didn't expect this many responses. Another thing, is http://www.fastweb.com/ a decent site for scholarships? Should I spend time applying for these little $300 bonuses?

Also, where would be a good place to volunteer?

As a side note; I just finished third in the province of Quebec in the Cayley math contest. Do finishing high on these tests look good (I've finished at least top 10 for the past 4 years...)

 

[63dot]

Wow, I really didn't expect this many responses. Another thing, is http://www.fastweb.com/ a decent site for scholarships? Should I spend time applying for these little $300 bonuses?

Also, where would be a good place to volunteer?

As a side note; I just finished third in the province of Quebec in the Cayley math contest. Do finishing high on these tests look good (I've finished at least top 10 for the past 4 years...)

I was also a math person and it's what initially helped me into a decent college. If you want to volunteer, that also helps for college admissions. If you want that top 10 MBA entrance right out of BA or BS, then start a business and get very rich. The people I knew who got into the good schools were so adept at business and did more than pretty well to do, post bachelor's degree, it seemed kind of weird that they wanted to go to grad school.

Though you won't need an MBA by then if you follow the path of a very successful few years out of undergrad, it's those who are the applicants who make it to a top program. Why? A top MBA school is still in it for the money. They want not only to charge high admission, but let in people who are already successful headed toward even bigger success. Those type of rich to richer alums tend to give generously to their alma mater.

To tell you the truth, by then it's just prestige. A lot of dot.com millionaires who were just barely old enough to drink went to Stanford GSB when things slowed down. Even Jerry Yang (Yahoo) talked about finishing grad school there during the height of his wealth. Jerry's a billionaire and has had it all but the grad school he dropped out of still meant a lot to him. You will see this even with undergrads at Stanford who are from filthy rich families, and a place like a Stanford knows to keep going strong and stay on top, rich students are a way.

While I find this unfair and many other MBA students find it unfair, it will be the first lesson you learn in business.

I hate to sound so cynical, but more and more these days, it takes more than smarts to get into a top MBA program. One man said it brilliantly when he said those with the fattest savings accounts get in. Because most top MBA students are already high earners before they apply, it skews their "salary" charts "after" they finish MBA school showing more income than MDs or lawyers.

So when you see surveys saying they make $250K a year or more a few years after that MBA, many were already making that before they applied so there isn't really a connection between the two.