iPod touch Going Palm-->Touch: What will I miss??

[Phrasikleia]

Now I'm getting some very good details here. This is great. Well, not great news (for a person who is fed up with Palm), but great information.

reidjr, what about the app Air Sharing? Doesn't it solve some of those problems you mentioned? Here's its blurb in the app store:

Or how about this app Mobile Finder?

These two sound encouraging, at least.

 

[sandman42]

For starters – you'll be judge to say if it's even close to these things that are all standard on PDAs:
drag and drop documents to and from the thing? Nope.
disk mode to be able to do the above? Nope.
ability to listen to an audio file that hasn't been "installed" through a propriatory app like iTunes? Nope.
Ability to FTP? Nope.

If your argument is that these functions aren't 'native' to the device, you're right, but the Air Sharing app, amongst others, allows all these things. To put files on or off the Touch just has to be present on the network, and you can access it from any computer on the network (not just the one wired to it). iTunes is not involved. Supported documents (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, JPG, PDF, iWork, RTF, various audio, various video, etc) are then viewable on the Touch (whether connected to the network or not), and can be transferred to other computers.

ability to read a wide variety of documents and, say, ebooks? Nope.

Again, Air Sharing allows many document types. Stanza supports eBooks.

connecting an external keyboard? Nope.
connect any other input device? Nope.
connecting the thing to a phone (tethering)? Nope.
ability to edit a wide variety of documents? Nope.
Expansion slots – as in SDIO and CFIO? Nope.
ability to send and receive vcards? Nope.
ability to use a proper task manager? Nope.
ability to copy/paste? Nope.

These things are not supported, as far as I know (although tethering is possible with the iPhone). I don't know I'd go so far as to say this disqualifies the Touch from being a PDA, though, as there are many devices that actually bill themselves as PDAs that don't support many of these functions.

I think this whole argument presupposes that there is a minimum set of functions a device has to support to qualify as a PDA. Different devices have different sets of abilities. Where do you draw the line? My first 'PDA' didn't do anything the Touch can't do, but the Touch can do many things it couldn't. I think this is a an unresolvable argument.

 

[bearcatrp]

Good question. Here's what comes to mind (in no particular order):

1) Dictionaries. I use my Palm's substantial dictionary apps for language reference while researching or traveling. (It looks as though those same apps are available for the Touch.)

2) Expense tracking/budgeting. I want to be able to record purchases I make as I make them in order to track my expenses. I don't necessarily need a desktop component for this purpose, but I wouldn't ever want to lose my data.

3) Lists. I make lists for all sorts of things (groceries, packing, writing ideas, etc.) and like being able to edit them on either my desktop or my PDA, so this does mean back-and-forth editing of synced files.

4) Contacts. I need them synced between the desktop and the PDA.

5) Calendar. I don't micromanage my days, but I do like having events in my calendar as reminders. I might have 10-15 items per month that end up on my Palm Calendar. Some of these are recurring events (meetings, garbage night, etc.). I need to sync these between the desktop and the PDA.

6) Text entry. I know I'm out of luck here. I have a portable, foldable Palm keyboard that turns my PDA into a wonderfully small laptop on which I can type about 60-70wpm. I create documents in WordSmith on the Palm and get editable RTF documents out of them when I sync. I mostly make (rather lengthy) notes on the Palm (while researching or attending lectures) and edit on the desktop, so I'm not doing a bunch of back-and-forth editing (unlike with the lists, no.3, above).

Those are what come to mind as potential problem areas. The other little apps I use should be quite the same on the Touch (BART schedule, Timer, Calculator, Converters, etc.)

There is a dictionary out so your covered there.
There are a few list programs available.
There are a few budget programs available.
Contacts and calendar is on the touch and can been synced.
Text entry: if you have the new touch, you can record memo's.

If you haven't looked at the programs available, you should. Its growing constantly. I was a palm nut for many years and my ipod has replace my palms. The touch is close to being a full fledge PDA. It will take time but believe it will surpass palm very soon. Palm is almost dead. They keep saying there new OS will be great but reality is there to late.
Another option are the subnotebooks with atom processors for around 300-500 bucks. Little bigger though.

 

[P-Worm]

If your argument is that these functions aren't 'native' to the device, you're right, but the Air Sharing app, amongst others, allows all these things. To put files on or off the Touch just has to be present on the network, and you can access it from any computer on the network (not just the one wired to it). iTunes is not involved. Supported documents (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, JPG, PDF, iWork, RTF, various audio, various video, etc) are then viewable on the Touch (whether connected to the network or not), and can be transferred to other computers.



Again, Air Sharing allows many document types. Stanza supports eBooks.




These things are not supported, as far as I know (although tethering is possible with the iPhone). I don't know I'd go so far as to say this disqualifies the Touch from being a PDA, though, as there are many devices that actually bill themselves as PDAs that don't support many of these functions.

I think this whole argument presupposes that there is a minimum set of functions a device has to support to qualify as a PDA. Different devices have different sets of abilities. Where do you draw the line? My first 'PDA' didn't do anything the Touch can't do, but the Touch can do many things it couldn't. I think this is a an unresolvable argument.

I was going to make a similar post. Sure there are things that the Touch can't do - like why is there no way to sync notes or your to do list from your desktop? I mean, really, this should have been there from the get-go.

But a lost of the things that you posted are features that I don't think are required to make a device a PDA. In fact, I would say that you expect a lot from a PDA just because there are devices that have these features - like a laptop for instance.

I have been very pleased with the Touch as a PDA replacement. Granted I don't do things like edit documents, but use it for contacts, web browsing, email, and scheduling. If they would add to do syncing, I would be content to never see another PDA again.

P-Worm

 

[Phrasikleia]

There is a dictionary out so your covered there.
There are a few list programs available.
There are a few budget programs available.
Contacts and calendar is on the touch and can been synced.
Text entry: if you have the new touch, you can record memo's.

If you haven't looked at the programs available, you should. Its growing constantly. I was a palm nut for many years and my ipod has replace my palms. The touch is close to being a full fledge PDA. It will take time but believe it will surpass palm very soon. Palm is almost dead. They keep saying there new OS will be great but reality is there to late.
Another option are the subnotebooks with atom processors for around 300-500 bucks. Little bigger though.

Thanks. I'm definitely not interested in a subnotebook. I want something no larger than my Palm T|X.

Now I'm starting to think the Touch might be just barely enough for my needs. There would be some compromises, for sure. Not having a task manager could be a sticking point. I'll have to ponder that one before making a decision. Also, having a budgeting app that doesn't sync its data would be worrisome--maybe that's not a deal breaker, though.

If only the Touch had real Bluetooth (not just some Nike+ thing) and a driver to support a Bluetooth keyboard. I can't fathom why it doesn't. And since the iPhone does have Bluetooth, why doesn't a driver exist for it? I'm going to guess such a thing would violate Apple's app terms, but I can't imagine why. It does make me wonder if Apple doesn't have something up their sleeve--a new device more suited to be a PDA, and one that they would want to keep at some distance from the Touch/iPhone.

 

[puffnstuff]

It hasn't even been a year since the app store is created. So yea it's going to take sometime before we see mobile iWorks,etc. I'm sure its coming maybe during macworld a keyboard will popup then everything will follow.

 

[Phrasikleia]

It hasn't even been a year since the app store is created. So yea it's going to take sometime before we see mobile iWorks,etc. I'm sure its coming maybe during macworld a keyboard will popup then everything will follow.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple left Bluetooth out of the Touch simply so they would have an upgrade path in the future, so they can gradually add features that will feed demand for the newer hardware. First it will be Bluetooth, then a built-in mic (not just one on the headset), then maybe a card slot...who knows.

 

[mackmgg]

Good question. Here's what comes to mind (in no particular order):

1) Dictionaries. I use my Palm's substantial dictionary apps for language reference while researching or traveling. (It looks as though those same apps are available for the Touch.)

2) Expense tracking/budgeting. I want to be able to record purchases I make as I make them in order to track my expenses. I don't necessarily need a desktop component for this purpose, but I wouldn't ever want to lose my data.

3) Lists. I make lists for all sorts of things (groceries, packing, writing ideas, etc.) and like being able to edit them on either my desktop or my PDA, so this does mean back-and-forth editing of synced files.

4) Contacts. I need them synced between the desktop and the PDA.

5) Calendar. I don't micromanage my days, but I do like having events in my calendar as reminders. I might have 10-15 items per month that end up on my Palm Calendar. Some of these are recurring events (meetings, garbage night, etc.). I need to sync these between the desktop and the PDA.

6) Text entry. I know I'm out of luck here. I have a portable, foldable Palm keyboard that turns my PDA into a wonderfully small laptop on which I can type about 60-70wpm. I create documents in WordSmith on the Palm and get editable RTF documents out of them when I sync. I mostly make (rather lengthy) notes on the Palm (while researching or attending lectures) and edit on the desktop, so I'm not doing a bunch of back-and-forth editing (unlike with the lists, no.3, above).

Those are what come to mind as potential problem areas. The other little apps I use should be quite the same on the Touch (BART schedule, Timer, Calculator, Converters, etc.)

1. Yes there are plenty of free and for pay dictionaries. WeDict is pretty good, I have the free one and it works well.
2. There are a few budget apps, but I have no experience with them.
3. There are some list apps, such as todos and grocery, but again I dont have experience there.
4. Built in, I used to sync mine with Address Book on my computer, but now I use www.nuevasync.com which syncs contacts over the air with Google Contacts.
5. Same as above, use iCal or NuevaSync and Google Calendar.
6. Notes, which is not the best for that, and MagicPad, a pretty good editor (idk about sync although some apps prly do) but there is no keyboard, although i have had my touch for a few months now and i can type pretty acurate and fast on the keyboard.

As for backup, iTunes auto backs up ALL of the settings and data on the ipod, exept music which can be easily synced back on.

 

[sandman42]

Now I'm starting to think the Touch might be just barely enough for my needs.

My recommendation: Buy one and give yourself a while to try it out. I doubt you'll be disappointed. One thing that I think discussions like this will never capture is how nice the Touch is to use, even if it fall short of the mark on some fronts. I thought I had a pretty good handle on what it was all about before I bought mine months ago (before 2.0), and I have to say it not only exceeded my expectations, but continues to delight me. The integration of the features is really nice.

I think the Touch/PDA arguments are a lot like the iPhone/Smartphone debates. All along lots of people have said, "the iPhone doesn't do anything other smart phones can't do," but what they're not accounting for is how nice the iPhone is to use -- the overall user experience. It's not the major functions that make it so great, it's the subtleties and how they work together. These devices are definitely more than the sum of their functions. They're not going to satisfy the people who strongly rely on the features that are just plain absent, but I think they're still pretty capable and versatile devices.

 

[queshy]

So not even having the option of a stylus is a good thing?
Anyway, you said it, the iPt is multimedia device. In other words, it's an "entertainment device", a PMP. Not a PDA - not even close.

The stylus is only good for "writing". Writing text on a PDA with a stylus is painful compared to the incredible keyboard that the iPod touch has. I've gotten so good with my iPhone i can now use two thumbs to type at a really fast speed. At first, I was only using an index finger, but as you use it more and more and learn to trust the auto-correct function, it works very well.

And yes, the iPt is a multimedia device at heart. But I can continue to make a strong argument for it as an excellent PDA. It browses the web, it organizes calendar events, contacts, notes, and is a great e-mail device. Windows mobile and palm are both great platforms, but I've really come to appreciate the iPod touch OS.

 

[Tosser]

If your argument is that these functions aren't 'native' to the device, you're right, but the Air Sharing app, amongst others, allows all these things.

No, that's not my argument, since one of my favourite app "suites" for WinMo is the Luci Live two (look it up at be amazed at Luci.eu). And no it doesn't. Drag and drop is far more convenient than upload to some odd network (and having to maintain said network in place where you might not be physically). Besides, uploading to some network is often much slower than using drag and drop, which, btw, you can do FROM a PDA as well. How on earth will you do with with your work-around? You have a file on your touch, and the bloke you meet needs it. Unless you already uploaded it to a network, you would do it how exactly? And how exactly do you FTP a document from your touch to an FTP-server?

To put files on or off the Touch just has to be present on the network, and you can access it from any computer on the network (not just the one wired to it).

Since when is that drag and drop? Do you have access to it, when you're not connected to "the network"? No you don't. Again, I would like to see you upload and all files (documents of any type - including pictures, pdfs, ebooks, wave-files/mp3s etc., movie clips etc.) from the touch. Further, even if this WAS possible, it still wouldn't be even close to simply drag and drop.

iTunes is not involved. Supported documents (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, JPG, PDF, iWork, RTF, various audio, various video, etc) are then viewable on the Touch (whether connected to the network or not), and can be transferred to other computers.

Sure. You just need to have access to the network it is hosted on, then you can look at them ON the network and download to other computers FROM the network. So they're NOT on the touch, but viewable FROM the touch and every other computer that finds them. IF you have access to the network. Excellent

And I still ask you: How do you do the opposite? How do you upload a file from the Touch to another computer, or even the network?

Again, Air Sharing allows many document types. Stanza supports eBooks.

Sure, but air sharing is indeed SHARING. On a network, no less. How do you go about sharing FROM the touch, unless you uploaded the stuff beforehand?
If you want "reading access" to a document you collegue has, do you ask him to upload it to the web, so you can view it there? You have got to be kidding me.

These things are not supported, as far as I know (although tethering is possible with the iPhone).

Tethering with the iPhone is the exact opposite of what we're talking here. Then the phone acts like a modem (the iPhone a somewhat crippled one, but nonetheless). This is about the Touch being able to use "a" phone as a modem.

I don't know I'd go so far as to say this disqualifies the Touch from being a PDA, though, as there are many devices that actually bill themselves as PDAs that don't support many of these functions.

You will be very hard pressed to find ANY pda that does NOT support these functions. Come now, give it shot. Find me some pdas that does not support "many" of these functions. I dare you.

I think this whole argument presupposes that there is a minimum set of functions a device has to support to qualify as a PDA. Different devices have different sets of abilities.

Yawn. What a pseudo argument. I am talking "PDAs", not DAPs, PMPs or anything like that. "PDAs", which includes things like the Palms and PPCs, and - funnily enough, giving the "digital assistant" part of the name, gives you the ability to edit all sorts of documents. You don't think being able to edit a little, plus the ability to write and then send documents is huge part of the notion of a "PDA"? Hell, you can't even sync notes from your touch. Yeah, that touch is sure a mighty fine "assistant" without the ability to create anything. I'll say she should be fired for being incompetent and lazy.

Where do you draw the line? My first 'PDA' didn't do anything the Touch can't do, but the Touch can do many things it couldn't.

As mentioned, your touch is a PMP, not a PDA.

I think this is a an unresolvable argument.

It's only "unresolvable" because some people soo want to pretend their PMP is a PDA, because it can do a _little_ of what a PDA can.

The stylus is only good for "writing". Writing text on a PDA with a stylus is painful compared to the incredible keyboard that the iPod touch has. I've gotten so good with my iPhone i can now use two thumbs to type at a really fast speed. At first, I was only using an index finger, but as you use it more and more and learn to trust the auto-correct function, it works very well.

A stylus is good for more than "writing". It's good for drawing (I am serious), it's good to select precisely. I know, you will now go "but there is no need to do that on the touch, the UI is simple", and of course, you're right. The problem IS that UI. Your fingers set the standard on how much practical real estate you can use, since things you're supposed to press hav to be of "finger size". Most pdas can do both, though.

And yes, the iPt is a multimedia device at heart. But I can continue to make a strong argument for it as an excellent PDA.

"Continue"?

It browses the web,

So does my smart phone, so does my GSM phone, so does several DAPs and PMPs.

it organizes calendar events, contacts, notes,

And how much of that can you edit on your Touch and THEN sync to a computer? Oh, that's right …

and is a great e-mail device.

What, you consider an email device that can't connect a keyboard, and can't even copy/paste a "great device"?

Haha, if that is a "strong" argument, I'd hate to see a weak one.

Windows mobile and palm are both great platforms, but I've really come to appreciate the iPod touch OS.

Fair enough. It's just not a PDA.

 

[puffnstuff]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple left Bluetooth out of the Touch simply so they would have an upgrade path in the future, so they can gradually add features that will feed demand for the newer hardware. First it will be Bluetooth, then a built-in mic (not just one on the headset), then maybe a card slot...who knows.

I think Apple is holding out because they want the 3rd party companies to do it. Which I think is best if a company or companies built an all in one attachment or just one with camera,bluetooth,etc it would be cheaper then what Apple would sell.


You should also try and look at the jailbroken apps and see if that offers anything of interest.

 

[Renator]

Thanks. I'm definitely not interested in a subnotebook. I want something no larger than my Palm T|X.

Now I'm starting to think the Touch might be just barely enough for my needs. There would be some compromises, for sure. Not having a task manager could be a sticking point. I'll have to ponder that one before making a decision. Also, having a budgeting app that doesn't sync its data would be worrisome--maybe that's not a deal breaker, though.

If only the Touch had real Bluetooth (not just some Nike+ thing) and a driver to support a Bluetooth keyboard. I can't fathom why it doesn't. And since the iPhone does have Bluetooth, why doesn't a driver exist for it? I'm going to guess such a thing would violate Apple's app terms, but I can't imagine why. It does make me wonder if Apple doesn't have something up their sleeve--a new device more suited to be a PDA, and one that they would want to keep at some distance from the Touch/iPhone.

I used Palms since 1997. I think, iirc, I jumped in about a year or so after they came out. After that I never looked back at a paper system. I had several Palms since then. Most recently a LifeDrive and T/X. In January of this year I switched to my iPT 16 gig and have never looked back. It's because I wanted the Touch and was willing to make compromises on some applications. I carry my docs with me via Google Docs. I use the Calendar, Contacts and Email extensively. I miss the Palm notes, but have cut and pasted most of them to Google Docs. There are newer apps, however I've gotten used to some work arounds. I think the second gen Touch takes care of the lack of an adequate alarm for Calendar events, but I'm unsure of that since I've not taken the time to look at one, yet. I used to use the Palm stylus and, either the built-in keyboard/Grafitti, exclusively. I had an external keyboard but I never wanted to bother with it. It was faster using the input apps built in. With the Touch, I use the keypad and don't mind it. Although I don't work on documents on my Touch very often.

Oh, somewhere along the line, I switched my basic systems from PC to Mac and had issues syncing the Palm. I did get software (Missing Sync) and it work fine (for the most part) but did require constant tweaking. I'd like a functional Bluetooth. But for syncing options I did not use the Bluetooth sync that often with the Palm since the USB sync was a lot faster.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[sandman42]

{a whole bunch of stuff}

Ok, I give. The Touch clearly doesn't meet your definition of a PDA. You win. I guess my point is that not everyone subscribes to your definition. The Touch is clearly not as capable as some other devices in many areas. It works great for me, but I'm not a 'power user' like you seem to be. It's clear that you feel very strongly about this, and I respect your opinion.

Specifically regarding Air Sharing, it sounds like you have a misconception about how it works. Think of it as a viewable storage device. While the Touch (or iPhone) is a client on a network it is an addressable storage device -- on your computer it looks just like any network drive (public/private access is controllable with password protection) and you can access its contents in a Finder (Mac) or Explorer (PC) window. You move files to and from the Touch by dragging and dropping and the files are loaded on the Touch itself. The files aren't hosted anywhere. You're right, you can only do this from the computer end, just as you would access any network drive from a computer, not the drive itself.

Once the Touch is off the network (when you're on the go) viewable files are available on the Touch itself, without being dependent on any other storage devices or connections to them (supported file types here). You can't initiate movement of the files to other devices from the Touch's interface, but if you connect to another network the files are again accessible to other devices on that network.

Hope that makes it more clear. My guess is that it doesn't do everything you think it should, but that's what it does do. Works nicely for me. I load files onto my Touch at home, and then can view them wherever I am (no data connection required). I can also share them if I want to by connecting to another network.

 

[P-Worm]

As mentioned, your touch is a PMP, not a PDA.

Call it what you want, but I think the Touch qualifies as a Personal Data Assistant. It organizes all of the data I need it to - calendars, contacts, emails, videos (I need this as I make videos and it is nice to show demos at intervals).

"it organizes calendar events, contacts, notes,"

And how much of that can you edit on your Touch and THEN sync to a computer? Oh, that's right …

Uhh, all of them except notes?

P-Worm

 

[br0adband]

I've been sitting on the wire, one could say, over the past week or so about whether to get an iPt (it's called the iPod touch, yanno, not iPod Touch, or iTouch, etc... it's the iPod touch) or grab another Dell Axim. While I do love a lot of the functionality and capability of the iPt, there are just some aspects of it that make me cringe. I sat down and made up a "pros and cons" list compared the major aspects of each and it ended up looking like what's in the attached image.

It's not complete, not by a longshot, and I did forget to put eBook reading capability on there. I know the iPt has eReader (www.ereader.com, on the App Store) but it's limited to that specific format, and I know there are a few other eBook-type readers available as well.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the iPt, I really do. Got to play with one for a bit at the Apple Store here in Vegas last week and was sooooo close to getting it on Thursday, but then I happened to luck out and find that Dell Axim x50v package (the x50v, a 1GB SD card, a 256MB CompactFlash card, two cradles, two AC adapters, a leather carrying case, and the original and and extended battery). Also note: the power estimate in the pros and cons list of 6-8 hours was for the stock 1100 mAh battery - I now have that and the extended 2200 mAh battery and I'll be buying a 3600 mAh extended here soon too, maybe two of 'em, so that 6-8 hour estimate is pretty low considering I'll have several batteries to work with, all kept topped off in both cradles.

I think for myself - because most everything I'm saying is a personal opinion, of course - that for my needs the following is what finally swayed me to the x50v:

- Lower cost right now for all that I got for $110, with a 16GB CF card at Fry's for $40 and an 8GB SDHC card for $22 I'm getting today, that's 24GB out the door, and I can add more
- VGA ftw... the 480x320 screen on the iPt is nice, and the high dot pitch is nice too, but it simply can't beat 640x480 - the Intel 2700G video chip with 16MB of dedicated vRAM is quite nice also and there are some pretty cool damned games available, but yes, the iPt has far more and more coming out every day, that's a given
- Expansion capability the iPt can't touch (no pun intended). The accessory market for CF and even SD expansion cards blows the iPt accessory market away as it's far more established even years later. I can add so much stuff to the x50v it's no contest
- As a portable audio player I can play any audio format without needing to bother with conversions of any kind, simply by adding the media to the CF or SD cards with drag and drop simplicity - I have a media card reader in my desktop PC so, it's a piece of cake
- As a portable video player I can play almost any video format without needing to convert to other formats, resolutions, etc. Almost every TV show I can find online by whatever method is encoded to a 640x480 or smaller format, perfect for this VGA screen, without needing to re-encode the material and hurt the quality as well as waste hours of time doing the re-encoding in the first place
- Several other reasons I could ramble on about but but but...

This isn't meant to sway anyone to PocketPCs - and I'm running Windows Mobile 6.1 on this "old" Axim x50v now as of last night, go figure - but I just wanted to toss out my opinion like everyone else does.

If I happen across a great price on a used iPt sometime, 1st or 2nd generation, I might jump on it. But for the time being, looking at my own pros and cons list... the Axim wins, on almost every comparison. I owned a Palm T|X about a year ago, damned thing ROCKED it really did, but someone snatched it when I wasn't looking. I really miss that one, it was by far the best Palm device I'd ever used of the many I've encountered.

But I'm happy with this Axim x50v. I wish I could find an x51v which is the pinnacle of PocketPC design and power from Dell. I hope someday they get back into the market, to be honest. These things are absolutely wonderful products, and with them no longer being made, people are selling 'em off at ridiculously low prices as packages with lots of stuff - just like the one I got a few days ago for $110.

Edit:
Yes, I did neglect on the iPt side for audio to add Apple Lossless, WAV, etc etc... didn't think it mattered as most people understand the iPt and all iPods in general simply cannot match the unlimited format compatibility of a PocketPC depending on the player: WAV, mp2, mp3, Ogg, AAC, .mp4, FLAC, Windows Media (lossy and lossless), Shorten, Musepack, Monkey's Audio, etc etc... I could go on and on... iPods simply are hamstrung to specific formats and PocketPCs aren't, simple.

 

[Phrasikleia]

br0adband, thanks for the very informative and thoughtful post. I read it all, including your list of pros and cons. One question, though: can you sync that thing on a Mac? (I don't want to have to buy Windows just to use a PDA.)

Oh, and another question: do those Dell devices ever suffer from digitizer drift? I have to recalibrate my Palm every time I turn it on; it's a minute-long process of poking calibration crosshairs, trying to keep my hand as steady as possible...UGH I hate it!!!!

 

[br0adband]

br0adband, thanks for the very informative and thoughtful post. I read it all, including your list of pros and cons. One question, though: can you sync that thing on a Mac? (I don't want to have to buy Windows just to use a PDA.)

Oh, and another question: do those Dell devices ever suffer from digitizer drift? I have to recalibrate my Palm every time I turn it on; it's a minute-long process of poking calibration crosshairs, trying to keep my hand as steady as possible...UGH I hate it!!!!

I believe there's an app out now for OSX that allows you to sync, yep. You can always run Windows inside a VM using VMWare Fusion or Parallels or even VirtualBox (free VM software) and use ActiveSync the way it was meant to be used, but... I do recall some advertisement in a SmartPhone magazine recently that showed Windows Mobile syncing taking place directly under OSX. I could be wrong so don't take my absolute word for it. I'll do some checking around and see if I can locate that app...

Digitizer drift happens, to some degree, on all such devices, but I rarely ever notice it myself. As for recalibrating every time, that was a known issue with some Palms (including the T|X as I learned in the time I owned mine). This is the second Axim x50v I've owned in the past 2 years - sold the other one at a profit compared to what I paid for it - and I've never encountered it myself. I upgrade the ROM as soon as I get it from the WM2003SE to WM5 and then directly to the latest WM6 which for me is now Lenny's WM6.1 L11 beta ROM. It works GREAT...

Google FTW!!!

http://mac.eltima.com/sync-mac.html <<<--- I think that's the one I saw the ad for...

 

[liferules]

So I think most agree that the touch can be a limited PDA but has significant deficits compared with the typical palm. OTOH, it has significant aesthetic benefits as well. The palm was always too heavy in my pocket. The touch is very light. I hold out hope that there will be apps developed for this growing "niche" group wanting to use theirs as a PDA.

BTW, data viz is releasing a "documents-to-go" for the iphone so I suspect it will be also ported to the touch...so that may answer one area of need...http://www.dataviz.com/products/documentstogo/iphone/notify/index.html

 

[Phrasikleia]

BTW, data viz is releasing a "documents-to-go" for the iphone so I suspect it will be also ported to the touch...so that may answer one area of need...http://www.dataviz.com/products/documentstogo/iphone/notify/index.html

This is great news, but aren't the apps for the iPhone the same as the apps for the touch? Is porting necessary?

 

[NT1440]

This is great news, but aren't the apps for the iPhone the same as the apps for the touch? Is porting necessary?

porting, no.

The SDK does have an option to make apps iphone only or touch only tho. Im sure its useful for certain things, but for the most part just a stupid limitation.

 

[HitchHykr]

So does my smart phone, so does my GSM phone, so does several DAPs and PMPs.

Comparing web browsing on the iPod touch with browsing on any phone or PDA is like comparing jpegs with ASCII graphics, yes you get a reasonable facsimile of what's being presented but the experience is quite different.

 

[Tosser]

Comparing web browsing on the iPod touch with browsing on any phone or PDA is like comparing jpegs with ASCII graphics, yes you get a reasonable facsimile of what's being presented but the experience is quite different.

Sure, that's how much difference there is

Anyway, another good example would be the touch is akin to watching a pretty still photo of a car, while the PDA is actually putting you in the front seat.
The touch may make the web look mighty pretty, but there is an awful lots of limits to what you can actually do. It's the difference between a toy (touch) and a tool (PDA). I prefer a tool – I'm too old to be playing around and not getting things done.

 

[br0adband]

Comparing web browsing on the iPod touch with browsing on any phone or PDA is like comparing jpegs with ASCII graphics, yes you get a reasonable facsimile of what's being presented but the experience is quite different.

So, the iPt has a 640x480 screen in landscape right? Or did I miss something? </heavy_sarcasm>

Because this x50v sitting here does 640x480 in landscape and, well, I can damned well see pretty much everything on the screen without needing to zoom in quite so much as I would on an iPt...

Flash? No problem... what's that you say? Not on the iPt? Hmmm... how about Java? Hmmm... that could be a problem sometimes. Bleh.

Function over form, that's my belief. A Porsche is a nice looking ride, but... yank the engine out and it's just a nice looking but quite dead and quite useless item that just takes up space. Ok, that's a weird analogy even by my standards.

Each device has its own uses, the iPt just happens to be more narrow than a PocketPC typically is, as well as hurting because of the nearly non-existant expansion capability. If Apple opens up that Bluetooth chip then yep, we'll see a big push for such devices. I'll just keep using the Bluetooth I have with the Axim for headphones, a keyboard (sometimes), and GPS. No built in GPS in the iPt or even the iPhone will be able to match the performance levels of dedicated equipment but, the iPhone's GPS ain't that bad for what it is.

 

[sandman42]

BTW, data viz is releasing a "documents-to-go" for the iphone so I suspect it will be also ported to the touch...so that may answer one area of need...http://www.dataviz.com/products/documentstogo/iphone/notify/index.html

You should check out Air Sharing. It already allows you to put Word, Excel, PPT, PDF, RTFD (and quite a few other file types) on your iPT/iPhone for viewing on the go, or for transferring to another computer. They were giving it away for a while, but now I think it's $6.99.