Going to the toilet during lessons.

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Misscollette, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Misscollette macrumors newbie

    Misscollette

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    #1
    I teach 9 and 10 year olds (primary school uk). I don't let children go to the toilet during lessons. Would you have a problem with this rule as a parent?
     
  2. Queen6 macrumors 604

    Queen6

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    #2
    Yes, it common sense young children may need to relive themselves from time to time, nor do they always have the forethought adults have...

    Q-6
     
  3. TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

    TiggrToo

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    #3
    As a child who was in that position can I please tell you, from my heart DO NOT DO THIS.

    I ended up (age 10) wetting myself due to a sudden overactive bladder and my teacher refused categorically to let me go to the bathroom. That one single incident alone led to several years of bullying which went well into the middle years at comprehensive school.

    This rule may make perfect sense to you - but you've no clue as to the mileage other kids will get out of it if a child should end up relieving themselves in the classroom.

    Best way I can suggest is keep track of the kids who use this and, if there's any abuse, inquire from the parents if there's any reason. Do not however institute a unilateral rule for all kids!
     
  4. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

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    #4
    So you'd rather clean up the resulting yellow puddle and let the poor kid suffer the embarrassment than just let them go? It's not always possible to just 'go between lessons', especially at that age. If it were my kid who came home saying they wet themselves because you wouldn't let them go to the bathroom, I'd be livid.
     
  5. Misscollette thread starter macrumors newbie

    Misscollette

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    #5
    If they have a medical note they are allowed to go.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018 ---
    I remind them to go at break,providing they do they should be able to manage a couple of hours without a pee.
     
  6. TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

    TiggrToo

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    #6
    I rarely quote anything from the Daily Mail, however for this I'l make an exception. In 2014 a school in Kent even went as far as locking the toilets between lessons. Yeah, did not go over well:

    A spokeswoman for children's charity ERIC (Education and Resources for Improving Childhood Continence), which campaigns on the slogan 'Every Child Has The Right To Go', said the policy was 'totally wrong'.

    Rhia Weston, of ERIC, said: 'It is extremely important that children are allowed to go to the toilet when they need to, otherwise they can develop problems with their health and wellbeing.

    'Preventing them from going by locking toilets or having a school policy of no toilet breaks is the completely wrong approach.

    'What schools often don't realise is that this kind of policy can affect children's school performance as well because of the impact that holding on or not drinking enough water can have on concentration and energy levels.

    'Children who do not drink enough water at school because they want to avoid using the toilet can also suffer from headaches.

    'This is an issue that affects all pupils, not just those with continence problems, so schools need to take it seriously.'​
    --- Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018 ---
    Mine came on in the middle of the day, next day I was diagnosed.

    In addition, you want kids to limit their water intake just to limit your need to control them otherwise? You any idea how dangerous that is?

    And do you have the first clue how bad bullying can be when an accident does happen? Once single incident can lead to a lifetime (school) of bullying which can adversely affect a child's future as an adult.

    With all due respect, it sounds like there's a bit of a powerplay going on here.
     
  7. Misscollette thread starter macrumors newbie

    Misscollette

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    #7
    I've never had a child wet themselves.
     
  8. MacDawg macrumors Core

    MacDawg

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    #8
    This is one of those rules that seems like a good idea in theory at the time it was made
    but turns out to be a really bad idea in practice

    @TiggrToo laid out some good thoughts on this, and while your rebuttal that a medical note allows it, that too signals someone who is "different" and vulnerable to bullying

    Kids are kids, and while some will abuse, those are the ones that need to be identified and dealt with individually, not the singling out of those needing a medical deferrment
    Handle the abusers on an individual basis and the ones who on occasion are caught with a full bladder or a sudden sick stomach will bless you
     
  9. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

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    #9
    To be honest, after reading this, I'm just going to tell any kids I have that if they really need to go, just to go. Regardless of what the teacher says. If they get in trouble for it, the teacher can answer to me. IMHO you have no right to take away the dignity of using a toilet for anyone. It's 2018, not 1818.
     
  10. Scepticalscribe, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #10
    Actually, I would.

    If they politely ask permission to leave the classroom, I can see no problem with facilitating their request, and allowing them to go to the bathroom. Most will not abuse that, not at that age, when - by allowing them to ask - you are acknowledging and respecting their ability to recognise what they need to do and how to go about remedying this.

    While most kids will have bladder control by that age, some - caused by stress, or sudden upsets, an upset tummy, diarrhoea - may temporarily lose that control.

    I've been a teacher at third level; if someone needs to go to the bathroom, they need to go to the bathroom. I see no reason why that should not be facilitated.

    They may need to go to the bathroom before the condition they suffer from has been medically diagnosed.
     
  11. MacDawg macrumors Core

    MacDawg

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    #11
    The first time will be one too many

    And ******** themselves will be even worse
     
  12. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #12
    Excellent post.
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #13
    Yes, I'd have a problem with that, as a parent, if I found out that a teacher is preventing a student from going, I'd be calling the school and scheduling a meeting to discuss how this is a horrible idea. If they child has to go, and its getting close to an emergency, do you really think what you're teaching them is going to sink in. People need to go, and preventing that, especially in kids is going to cause undo harm, stress and accidents.
     
  14. Misscollette thread starter macrumors newbie

    Misscollette

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    #14
    One of the mums was unhappy because I didn't let her daughter go during the afternoon and she was dying for the toilet on the way home. She asked 5 minutes after lunch. Why not go after I dismissed the class at the end of the day?
     
  15. TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

    TiggrToo

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    #15
    Oh, well, bully for you.

    You know what happened to me after my incident? Next day, I had my head pushed in the toilet bowl. After that I was forced to wear toilet paper by some of the other girls. And that was the easy bit - it got worse fast. I then started missing school, I started to slip. My grades did a total one-eighty in ONE YEAR.

    My parents hit the bloody roof when I eventually told them. The teacher in question - an aged old lady who came from old-school teaching - 'retired' the following year. Unsure if it was related but I wasn't sorry.

    YOU DO NOT GET IT.

    You seem to be getting a kick out of punishing children for nature. Even as an adult I've had to suddenly step out of a meeting to go to the toilet. It's a basic call of nature!

    You asked for opinions and now you seem to be very much defensive because you're not getting the answers you hoped for. You come here for affirmation or to genuinely ask? Right now it seems the former.
     
  16. Queen6 macrumors 604

    Queen6

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    #16
    When the situation occurs, you very much need to be prepared to deal with the parents. As the ramifications to the child concerned far exceed the instant of the situation as per TiggrToo's response.

    Q-6
    --- Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018 ---
    Ever considered it's because they are children...

    Q-6
    --- Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018 ---
    Well said

    Q-6
     
  17. Misscollette thread starter macrumors newbie

    Misscollette

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    #17
    I honestly don't believe a 9 or 10 year cannot plan their toilets breaks and hold their bladders.
     
  18. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

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    #18
    It's not always that easy as an adult, when you need to go can vary widely depending on the temperature, how much you've drunk that particular day etc. And what about if they develop an upset stomach?
     
  19. Scepticalscribe, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #19
    Possibly because the child felt too inhibited to ask you; if your stance on this matter is as adamant as your posts appear to suggest, a child may feel constrained from raising this issue in the school grounds.

    Some excellent posts by @TiggrToo and some others. And yes, sometimes, adults are taken short, too.

    Firstly, by encouraging - or enabling - or allowing - children to ask politely to go to the bathroom when they need to do so, you are allowing them to take control of their bodily functions, be seen to take control of those functions, and to express themselves in a precise vocabulary that describes those bodily functions in a non-smutty, neutral way, which allows them to see this as natural and not something to be embarrassed about.

    I was in, I think, second class (roughly 8 year olds) when it was explained to us that we were now old enough to be trusted with the ability to recognise - and articulate - when we needed to go to the bathroom, and that if we raised a hand in class to make this request, this would be acknowledged and permitted. It was a rite of passage, an exchange of responsibility - by making the child responsible for notifying the teacher - and a very valuable one.

    I'm with @TiggrToo on the potential for humiliation - children can be very brutal to the weak, vulnerable or different - if the right to relieve oneself is denied.

    And I agree on the stress caused by the need to concentrate on holding on - this is hardly going to enhance one's attention span in the classroom; if you are focussing on holding your bladder, I doubt you can expend much mental energy on paying attention to what the teacher is saying and trying to assimilate it, let alone comprehend it.

    With respect to the OP, I really think your stance is unreasonable and unfair to the children concerned, and above all, it denies them dignity.
     
  20. Steeley macrumors regular

    Steeley

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    #20
    omg let them go. I get that the outcome you’re trying to achieve is for the student to plan ahead and also that there’s consequences for their actions. But the risk is that the student soils his or herself. Do you really want that?

    If you have to make a big deal out of it then when they return from the loo ask them to plan ahead next time, and if it doesn’t change or students start abusing the system look at other options.

    He’ll, even a dog gets the dignity of going outside.
     
  21. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    #21
    No, but you may well have had many that have struggled to keep their bladder under control, thus losing concentration in your classroom, or as also mentioned in the post you replied to, wrongly regulate their water intake to try and prevent having to pee during your class.

    You can have it as a rule that going to the toilet should be done in breaks or after class if possible, without limiting access to the toilet entirely. In the case you mentioned, I would've suggested to simply say "You should've done that before class, but yes you may go - remember it for next time though", and only go further if it's a recurring pattern.

    With all due respect; If you're so convinced that your method is the only true way, and all of what we say should just be shrugged off, why ask?
     
  22. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #22
    There is always a first time; things can change in a child's life - illness, a bladder infection, diarrhoea, stress caused by domestic events - surely - as someone working in education - you have read some of the extensive literature available about how children with advanced bladder control sometimes regress under the stress of domestic stuff (broken marriages, violence, parents facing unemployment, unpaid mortgages and so on)?

    And I am stupefied that someone who is clearly so unsympathetic to children's needs is teaching kids of that age.

    You set up an account with MR to ask about this, and then proceed to post an increasingly unsympathetic and dogmatic set of posts on the topic taking issue with how those who have responded - some of whom also have considerable experience in education - have chosen to respond.
     
  23. arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #23
    I have a suspicion that @Misscollette is a troll account
    Join date? Today
    First Post on a Tech forum is about this?
    If this person truly is a teacher I think there are far more appropriate online places to go and ask…

    I think they're just getting their kicks out of stirring things up.

    If she (I presume) is a teacher I can say to the children she controls, good luck dealing with this one.
    Teachers like these have the capacity to scar you for life…
     
  24. sartrekid macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    What you believe is irrelevant. You are in no position to dictate over someone's basic biological needs. That's ludicrous and if I had children with a teacher like that, I'd not only file a complaint but make sure that my children were taken out of your class instantly.
     
  25. TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

    TiggrToo

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    #25
    I may be wrong, but I suspect the OP will not be back. I've a feeling she was simply looking for affirmation on her dogmatic attitude and, having found the total inverse here, will move on to any other public forum with a avenue for asking questions like this until she finds someone equally as dismissive of children's welfare at which point she'll stop, happy to know that 'she's right', irrespective of how many times she's been told the opposite

    Kinda scary that there's people like her potentially teaching our kids.
     
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