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iPod touch **GOOD SCREEN**Screen Test Pictures of my Touch

Here's a good example of my Nano vs Touch displaying the same video with different results and no, it is not the angle. I used a Firefly episode because it's a very extreme example that was easy to catch on film. Regular shows aren't as drastic because brights look fine, but those dark scenes...

6glrl3b.jpg


YouTube: iPod Nano vs Touch - Moving Camera Shot
YouTube: iPod Nano vs Touch - Straight Shot
 
If in fact the problem is being caused by incorrect application of the anti reflective coating on the LCD then it could very well explain the degrees of variation being seen in the first batch iPods we've all been getting this past week.

Additionally the way an anti-reflective coat works means that you will observe different levels of performance depending on lighting sources. If you have lots of indirect lights, such as in a retail store, etc, the problem will not be as noticeable. Even the 'good' screens people have shown don't look right to me. The dark areas are still over-saturated and don't show any detail.

In a totally dark room, the performance will be atrocious.

I don't doubt that some people have gotten screens that are 'better' than other ones but I think the Jury's out on whether or not any of these screens are truly performing to the actual level that Apple intended.

Hopefully Apple responds soon either directly (recall, etc) or indirectly (quietly starts shipping good units) because I've only got 29 days left on this return policy from Best Buy.
 
jmpage2 said:
If in fact the problem is being caused by incorrect application of the anti reflective coating on the LCD then it could very well explain the degrees of variation being seen in the first batch iPods we've all been getting this past week.

Additionally the way an anti-reflective coat works means that you will observe different levels of performance depending on lighting sources. If you have lots of indirect lights, such as in a retail store, etc, the problem will not be as noticeable. Even the 'good' screens people have shown don't look right to me. The dark areas are still over-saturated and don't show any detail.

In a totally dark room, the performance will be atrocious.

I don't doubt that some people have gotten screens that are 'better' than other ones but I think the Jury's out on whether or not any of these screens are truly performing to the actual level that Apple intended.

Hopefully Apple responds soon either directly (recall, etc) or indirectly (quietly starts shipping good units) because I've only got 29 days left on this return policy from Best Buy.
Click to expand...

I think you're right about the lighting affecting the degree of the defect.

I picked this up Friday night after work, took it home and noticed the black screen defect all weekend.

Come Monday morning, I come into my office, which is very well lit and my blacks look pretty darn good. Very watchable, a noticeable difference.

I highly doubt it just started to work on its own...I'll know for sure when I go home tonight and view it in a dim environment.
 
tyorke said:
I think you're right about the lighting affecting the degree of the defect.

I picked this up Friday night after work, took it home and noticed the black screen defect all weekend.

Come Monday morning, I come into my office, which is very well lit and my blacks look pretty darn good. Very watchable, a noticeable difference.

I highly doubt it just started to work on its own...I'll know for sure when I go home tonight and view it in a dim environment.
Click to expand...

Same thing for me. Looks better at my well lit office, but it's still there. Trust me.

the viewing angle for the screen is just way off. If they don't fix it, you'll just have to hold it crooked forever.
 
Agree with the office setting as well. Viewing here at work looks fine but if I go into a dark area it looks horrible. What also affects it is the brightness setting of the device. If your in a dark room and it looks bad try turning the brightness down and it looks better.
 
840quadra said:
Thank you sir! Mine still looks great. I guess I am one of the lucky ones!
Click to expand...
So, does the new 480x320 gamma calibration image display correctly? Someone placed a picture on Flickr, which doesn't look the way it should look. None of the rows come anywhere close to blending in the central squares, and the moiré patterns in the boxes suggest that this image is scaled even though it should fit on the screen without scaling. Is there no way to switch off image resizing in the browser on the Touch?

Sean Dempsey said:
Look at these colors bars. They start out light, like the background, and then get darker, and then go to the color. The blacker the color, the lighter it is. This is obviously not displaying right on my Touch, correct?
Click to expand...
That is pretty awful; it looks a bit like the screen of my 5-year old laptop from which I'm typing this and my el-cheapo mobile phone. :-/
 
if anyone here ever owned a game gear should remember what happened when you had the contrast turned up to far or down to low, the picture would start to go negative, and sometimes you could gain the proper picture back if you tilt it up or down. i know that wasn't the best example.

it could be that the contrast is not set properly. or there is a few of them that has a bad LCD in them. no one will know till its looked into more better.
 
madmax_2069 said:
if anyone here ever owned a game gear should remember what happened when you had the contrast turned up to far or down to low, the picture would start to go negative, and sometimes you could gain the proper picture back if you tilt it up or down.
Click to expand...

What're the chances that one of the three people who had a game gear would be posting on this forum? 😉
 
Sean Dempsey said:
Look at these colors bars. They start out light, like the background, and then get darker, and then go to the color. The blacker the color, the lighter it is.

This is obviously not displaying right on my Touch, correct?
Click to expand...

I don't have a touch yet but just a thought about this chart.

Below a certain black level the ipod touch starts to display the negative black effect right? I'm thinking if you took your video into imovie or any other basic video program(software like compressor can do this while encoding), and increased the brightness of the video so the blackest black is not below the level that the touch displays as negative, then you may be able to view videos on the touch with better detail and no negative effect at the compromise of a bit less contrast.
 
gkarris said:
The ones I saw on display at the Oak Brook, IL, Apple Store were flawless. Has anyone that purchased one from that store got a bad one?

I went with the 4Gig iPhone instead...

I believe that Apple is formulating a strategy to fix them as we speak...
Click to expand...

I bought a 16 GB from the Oak Brook store on Friday and I have the negative black issue. It's not as bad as a lot of these examples but it is still enough that I'll be requesting an exchange at a Genius Bar next time I'm near one.
 
jmpage2 said:
That's all pure speculation. You think that Apple sent 20-30 units to each of their stores for dispaly? These units are for sale. Additionally people have gotten units from Best Buy with the same serial number prefixes as what you can get from the Apple store so I think that theory is pretty hard to believe.

As for those with 'good' screens, in the photos I've seen, black still looks messed up like the contrast is cranked up way too high or something. Look at the video the guy made of his iphone and ipod touch side by side playing the same episode of 'House M.D.'. On the iPod it is all dark and over contrasted, on the iPhone it looks like a good quality LCD TV with great contrast and lots of fine detail.

We don't even know if Apple is aware of the problem yet other than a few reports trickling in, remember, these units only went on sale on Thursday and now it's the weekend. Engadget has promised to 'follow up' on the iPod touch screen issue so we'll see what they come out with next week.

The right thing for Apple to do is either say;

1. This is as good as it gets for this screen, this screen is not as good as the one on the iPhone.

2. We will fix the problem and do a no hassle exchange to anyone with an affected Touch with Serial numbers xxxxxblahxxxx

Anything other than this, i.e., ignoring the issue is probably going to result in a LOT of returns and a LOT of bad press, at least on tech blogs.
Click to expand...

Or issue the software/firmware fix that's coming...
 
I registered just to say this:

(I have a 16 GB just for credibility purposes...)

The OP's screen DOES exhibit the negative black effect. I don't know what you all are looking at, but I have yet to see a "good" screen picture. Look closely at the test squares in the second row from the left:
15.jpg

It may not be as apparent on an actual PC monitor, but follow the pattern as you move to the left from the brighter squares. There is clearly a break in that pattern.

Second, look at the right side of the driver's head closely:
06.jpg


The negative black is clearly there; the placebo effect is upon ye. Now move your head to the right a few inches and look at the second screen again. Much clearer, right? Well, it is for me, anyway. Viewing angle is the major player here.

I believe that the OP in the "There are no bad screens" thread is correct: this is purely an issue with contrast levels. If Apple wants to do the right thing, this will be fixed by adding a contrast bar to the settings screen.
 
mike1123 said:
this is purely an issue with contrast levels. If Apple wants to do the right thing, this will be fixed by adding a contrast bar to the settings screen.
Click to expand...


Contrast issues due to the screen hardware. No software will fix this because it's due to the way the light is bent/reflected by the screen and the coating on the inside surface.
 
Sean Dempsey said:
Contrast issues due to the screen hardware. No software will fix this because it's due to the way the light is bent/reflected by the screen and the coating on the inside surface.
Click to expand...

That all depends on whether or not the whole anti-reflective coating talk is true. I personally don't see Apple or these factories making such a large error.

On top of that, pictures edited w/ less contrast look phenomenal on my screen. No washout whatsoever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
mike1123 said:
That all depends on whether or not the whole anti-reflective coating talk is true. I personally don't see Apple or these factories making such a large error.

On top of that, pictures edited w/ less contrast look phenomenal on my screen. No washout whatsoever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Click to expand...

Yes - but a physical limitation of an LCD screen is going to be pretty hard to overcome with software. The screen is mistaklenly built so that the proper viewing angle is from the bottom right.

Say whatever you want about contrast or whatever else - fact is, a screen is made to be viewed head on, and degrade when viewed from other angles. This screen is viewed best with the left-top corner pushed away 20 degrees and down about 15 degrees.

That's a mistake. If I had a screen and was posting "Guys, when look a this LCD from the bottom right, the blacks go all negative and washed out," would you still say it's a software contrast issue?

No, you'd tell me to look at it head on, like a display is mean to be looked at, and to ****.
 
Sean Dempsey said:
Yes - but a physical limitation of an LCD screen is going to be pretty hard to overcome with software. The screen is mistaklenly built so that the proper viewing angle is from the bottom right.

Say whatever you want about contrast or whatever else - fact is, a screen is made to be viewed head on, and degrade when viewed from other angles. This screen is viewed best with the left-top corner pushed away 20 degrees and down about 15 degrees.

That's a mistake. If I had a screen and was posting "Guys, when look a this LCD from the bottom right, the blacks go all negative and washed out," would you still say it's a software contrast issue?

No, you'd tell me to look at it head on, like a display is mean to be looked at, and to ****.
Click to expand...

Exactly, but you are missing my point. Go look at a normal LCD. Tilt it the way you would to make the Touch look nice. Does it? Of course not. LCD's have a limited viewing angle. What you are trying to say is that the fact that this screen's optimal viewing angle is not straight on means it's a hardware problem. I'm saying that the contrast, gamma, and other settings are simply set in a manner that makes the tilted viewing angle the optimal one. The screen is calibrated incorrectly, that's all. I can calibrate my LCD monitor right now to look horrible dead on and look purdy at an angle; anybody can do that. I agree that Apple made a mistake, but I really can't see this being an issue with hardware.
 
mike1123 said:
Exactly, but you are missing my point. Go look at a normal LCD. Tilt it the way you would to make the Touch look nice. Does it? Of course not. LCD's have a limited viewing angle. What you are trying to say is that the fact that this screen's optimal viewing angle is not straight on means it's a hardware problem. I'm saying that the contrast, gamma, and other settings are simply set in a manner that makes the tilted viewing angle the optimal one. The screen is calibrated incorrectly, that's all. I can calibrate my LCD monitor right now to look horrible dead on and look purdy at an angle; anybody can do that. I agree that Apple made a mistake, but I really can't see this being an issue with hardware.
Click to expand...

Okay I can respect that response.

There's no way to know yet if they'll do a hardware remedy, or a software one. I think either could work, but who knows.
 
mike1123 said:
The OP's screen DOES exhibit the negative black effect. I don't know what you all are looking at, but I have yet to see a "good" screen picture.
Click to expand...

Mine is a good one (I posted the pics of my touch showing the Jay-z cover). I've also seen several touches in real life that have variations of the negative black issue. Mine has none.

mike1123 said:
Look closely at the test squares in the second row from the left:
It may not be as apparent on an actual PC monitor, but follow the pattern as you move to the left from the brighter squares. There is clearly a break in that pattern.
Click to expand...

Clearly there is a break? You do realize that what you are referring to is the reflection of the guy standing over his touch while taking the picture, right?

mike1123 said:
Second, look at the right side of the driver's head closely:
Click to expand...

Again, reflection. Can you not see his arm? Or his head? Or the round lens of the camera up real close?

mike1123 said:
The negative black is clearly there; the placebo effect is upon ye. Now move your head to the right a few inches and look at the second screen again. Much clearer, right? Well, it is for me, anyway. Viewing angle is the major player here.
Click to expand...

I think maybe it is you who is experiencing a bit of placebo effect 😉 I think some people are so frustrated over the whole issue that they do not want to admit that good screens exist. There are good screens, there are bad screens, and there are very bad screens. If you're lucky you'll get a good one now, or you can wait until Apple resolves the issue. Either way, if you're having to twist and turn your head all sorts of funky, unnatural ways just to try to get the slightest glimpse of negative black, then you're trying way too hard to find fault with a 3.5" screen. It's not a $5,000.00 HD tv 😉
 
bluush said:
Mine is a good one (I posted the pics of my touch showing the Jay-z cover). I've also seen several touches in real life that have variations of the negative black issue. Mine has none.



Clearly there is a break? You do realize that what you are referring to is the reflection of the guy standing over his touch while taking the picture, right?



Again, reflection. Can you not see his arm? Or his head? Or the round lens of the camera up real close?



I think maybe it is you who is experiencing a bit of placebo effect 😉 I think some people are so frustrated over the whole issue that they do not want to admit that good screens exist. There are good screens, there are bad screens, and there are very bad screens. If you're lucky you'll get a good one now, or you can wait until Apple resolves the issue. Either way, if you're having to twist and turn your head all sorts of funky, unnatural ways just to try to get the slightest glimpse of negative black, then you're trying way too hard to find fault with a 3.5" screen. It's not a $5,000.00 HD tv 😉
Click to expand...

Alright, I can acknowledge the reflection makes my claim on the second picture worthless. But then in the first picture, there should be lighter gray squares within the black squares on the 2nd to last row. They show on every other screen I've tested that image on, and I don't think a black reflection will phase out gray squares. 😉 And plus, once again I must state that turning up the contrast on content makes it look perfect.
 
mike1123 said:
Alright, I can acknowledge the reflection makes my claim on the second picture worthless. But the in the first picture, there should be lighter gray squares within the black squares on the 2nd to last row. They show on every other screen I've tested that image on, and I don't think a black reflection will phase out gray squares. 😉
Click to expand...

Yeah, but unless you are a very skilled photographer it is quite difficult to translate exactly what one sees in real life into a jpeg, especially images such as a video screen. Even on the pics I took of my Touch showing the Jay-Z cover, even though the pictures are clear, it is even better (much better) in real life.

Honestly, if I really wanted a touch (and didn't already have mine) I'd go to an Apple store and buy one, open it there and test it, if it's bad then swap it out right there. Keep on doing it until you get a good one.

Under this looming cloud of screen issues lays one of the greatest gadgets I've ever had the pleasure of using (let alone owning). It sucks so many others cannot enjoy this device to the fullest. It's awesome.
 
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