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Google Again Criticizes Apple for Not Adopting RCS for Messages App: 'Their Texting is Stuck in the 1990s'

jvolkman said:
AT&T has their own implementation, and it's recently integrated with Google's Jibe servers. Some AT&T rep posted a helpful update a couple of months back. Prior to their services integrating with Jibe, people with AT&T-branded phones (even Pixel 7s) couldn't communicate with others on other carriers, even if using Google Messages. But reports from customers say that's been fixed now.

Or do you have information that says otherwise?
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Which means that AT&T do not have any servers serving RCS now correct? Isn't that what I'm saying?

jvolkman said:
Bold claim given that they explicitly say they don't do this.
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I did not say Google is looking at users' RCS messages. I'm saying they are collecting meta information of users, which it is well known that they do, as it enhanced their ad business.

jvolkman said:
You can't add the "unblessed" user to the RCS group. If you try to do so, Google Messages will inform you that a new SMS/MMS group will be created instead.
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So you agree that RCS done by Google is not seamless? So why is Google pushing so hard for Apple to adopt their version of RCS. Why is Google not releasing their Google Messages app for iOS? Why is Apple expected to adopt a half-baked solution?
 
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dk001 said:
I do not agree.
We need something to replace SMS/MMS and right now nothing is being looked at, developed, agreed to, or even considered except RCS.

As for chat, depends if they are iOS. iOS gets nada as Apple does not allow any handling of RCS.
As for older Android devices, I don't know. Have not run into it yet as the limitation appears to be carrier defined, not RCS or Google defined. Do I use RCS? Not a lot due to iOS here in the States and WhatsApp (and others) in the rest of the world.
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Why is this on Apple when the RCS situation is so messed up now?

dk001 said:
IMO you are missing the point I made much earlier. It isn't that I am for or against RCS. I do see that currently RCS is the only protocol that is even being looked at as the next gen SMS/MMS. Now if something else came about from the techs getting together to develop it, I would take a hard look.
Right now RCS gives me on the Android side what iMessage does on the iOS side. Messaging is the wild west and it really should be fixed.
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And you are not missing my points? See my reply above.

Do you really think Apple using Google RCS will fix this situation?
 
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quarkysg said:
Which means that AT&T do not have any servers serving RCS now correct? Isn't that what I'm saying?
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No. It means that AT&T has their own implementation which now connects to Google's Jibe servers.

quarkysg said:
So you agree that RCS done by Google is not seamless?
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Your thought experiment was about mixing RCS and SMS. I don't think anyone suggested that would ever work, just like mixing iMessage and SMS doesn't work, and mixing iMessage and RCS wouldn't. The request is for Apple to fall back on RCS when not all clients are iMessage capable but they are all RCS capable.

quarkysg said:
Why is Google not releasing their Google Messages app for iOS?
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I'm not sure that they can? RCS is related to IMS as far as I know which would likely be some system-level service. Doubtful that Apple provides necessary APIs. They don't for SMS, after all.
 
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dk001 said:
I do not agree.
We need something to replace SMS/MMS and right now nothing is being looked at, developed, agreed to, or even considered except RCS.
Click to expand...

RCS isn’t being looked at either, because it isn’t a lucrative business.

Google’s proprietary version of RCS is being looked at, because it’s great for the carriers in that they don’t have to set it up, and it’s great for Google because 1) look into Google’s business model and 2) it saves them from building their own messenger, which they’ve bizarrely tried and failed to do countless times.

If you think we need an SMS successor, your best bet at this point is to tell politicians that they ought to mandate it. But there’ll be arguments what such a successor needs. Does it need E2EE? Because RCS doesn’t even have that anyways, and also, politicians might not like it.

 
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quarkysg said:
But I think credit should be given where it's due.
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Yeah, I can’t help but think that the mass market consumer reversible data/power cable that is lightning preceding the first USB standard reversible data/power cable is too much of a coincidence (after so many years of producing ever smaller NON-reversible solutions).
 
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jvolkman said:
Bold claim given that they explicitly say they don't do this.
Click to expand...

quarkysg said:
I'm saying they are collecting meta information of users, which it is well known that they do, as it enhanced their ad business.
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Their statement says that messages are encrypted so what you say is protected. It also says:

We use information about your contacts

Messages will collect your location when you choose to share your location in the Messages app. You can disable this collection by removing location permissions for Messages in your settings.

Messages collects performance data, crash logs, and diagnostics.

When you choose to enable certain features, like spam detection, Messages uses additional data to improve those features and Google’s other products and services.

Messages doesn’t use information collected in our app for advertising.

That last statement is a bit vague. Maybe they don't present ads based upon message data, but it doesn't say anything about not giving the data they collect to 3rd parties.

They do collect data from messages. Which data, and how it is used is unclear.
 
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jvolkman said:
AT&T has their own implementation, and it's recently integrated with Google's Jibe servers. Some AT&T rep posted a helpful update a couple of months back. Prior to their services integrating with Jibe, people with AT&T-branded phones (even Pixel 7s) couldn't communicate with others on other carriers, even if using Google Messages. But reports from customers say that's been fixed now.
…
Click to expand...

Looks like it is.
I can use RCS in Messages with my sons OnePlus 9 Pro and my ex‘s Galaxy Note 10. Both are on AT&T while I am on Mint (TMo) - I have a OnePlus 10 Pro.
 
quarkysg said:
Why is this on Apple when the RCS situation is so messed up now?


And you are not missing my points? See my reply above.

Do you really think Apple using Google RCS will fix this situation?
Click to expand...

Not saying it is on Apple. I am saying that allowing iMessage to handle both SMS/MMS and RCS would be beneficial.

As for points, let’s call it ships passing in the night. We think each other is missing it.
 
chucker23n1 said:
RCS isn’t being looked at either, because it isn’t a lucrative business.

Google’s proprietary version of RCS is being looked at, because it’s great for the carriers in that they don’t have to set it up, and it’s great for Google because 1) look into Google’s business model and 2) it saves them from building their own messenger, which they’ve bizarrely tried and failed to do countless times.

If you think we need an SMS successor, your best bet at this point is to tell politicians that they ought to mandate it. But there’ll be arguments what such a successor needs. Does it need E2EE? Because RCS doesn’t even have that anyways, and also, politicians might not like it.
Click to expand...

On this we have to disagree.
Globally, RCS is being looked at and is an option in many places. Currently Googles version is the leading candidate.

As for an SMS successor, I would rather not have to devolve to using Government mandates to accomplish this. Call it last resort.
 
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quarkysg said:
You post history suggest you tend to bash Apple, and that's fine. But I think credit should be given where it's due.
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That depends on what I'm talking about, but whatever, I still 100% disagree with you on this. I bash what I think is stupid, and I think there's a LOT of stupid out there! :)

The same problem tends to be solved the same way, no matter who does it. Maybe I'd be more generous in my credit if Apple would have kept it up to date with similar connectors, but they didn't even come close.
 
dk001 said:
Looks like it is.
I can use RCS in Messages with my sons OnePlus 9 Pro and my ex‘s Galaxy Note 10. Both are on AT&T while I am on Mint (TMo) - I have a OnePlus 10 Pro.
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I'm on AT&T as well but I bought my phone unlocked and it connects directly to Jibe, whereas the phones bought on contract from AT&T use their own service. Who knows, maybe unlocked phones on AT&T will eventually use their implementation once everything is running smoothly.

With Google Messages, you can tell by going to settings -> chat features and looking at the text at the bottom. Mine says "provided by Jibe Mobile" but AT&T users see something like "provided by AT&T".
 
jvolkman said:
I'm on AT&T as well but I bought my phone unlocked and it connects directly to Jibe, whereas the phones bought on contract from AT&T use their own service. Who knows, maybe unlocked phones on AT&T will eventually use their implementation once everything is running smoothly.

With Google Messages, you can tell by going to settings -> chat features and looking at the text at the bottom. Mine says "provided by Jibe Mobile" but AT&T users see something like "provided by AT&T".
Click to expand...

All phones in my example are unlocked.
Note 10 is Android 12 - bought from Best buy and AT&T unlocked
9 Pro is Android 12 - Bought from Amazon
10 Pro is Android 13 - Bought from OnePlus

Maybe it is the new app as Jibe is owned by Alphabet.
Jibe — the RCS communications team at Google — provides a technology platform for carriers to launch and operate carrier RCS services, delivering a better native messaging experience to users.
 
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dk001 said:
I'm still looking into this as there is some conflicting info out there. Thanks for the conversation.

The one aspect which came from Google and was a surprise, was in #3, "Google has said, however, that if a network supports RCS, its own servers can be used for the transfer of messages."

Not sure I agree with #4. They already have this info if the iDevice is using anything Google on it - that's most.
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They don't have access to your text messages unless they're keylogging via secondary apps. Which I think falls under wiretap laws and is illegal. Not that I wouldn't put it passed them to attempt it. We already know that all their apps are actively listening if they're installed on your device, so.
 
SactoGuy18 said:
Here's the issue: many people outside the USA are using WhatsApp and WeChat as their messaging services. And both are cross-platform messaging services, avoiding the RCS versus iMessage fight.
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True, but if I had the option, I would *really* prefer not to use WhatsApp. Given any alternative, I would run a mile from a meta company if I possibly could.... but it's not possible, because everyone is on Whatsapp, because of the lack of a mainstream interoperable messaging system.
 
doobydoooby said:
True, but if I had the option, I would *really* prefer not to use WhatsApp. Given any alternative, I would run a mile from a meta company if I possibly could.... but it's not possible, because everyone is on Whatsapp, because of the lack of a mainstream interoperable messaging system.
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Given that WhatsApp has a gigantic user base in Europe and Africa, sadly we don't have much in the way of alternatives.
 
OneBar said:
They don't have access to your text messages unless they're keylogging via secondary apps. Which I think falls under wiretap laws and is illegal. Not that I wouldn't put it passed them to attempt it. We already know that all their apps are actively listening if they're installed on your device, so.
Click to expand...

They likely do if sent from iOS via SMS/MMS to Android Messages.

Not seeing how RCS would increase that.
 
dk001 said:
They likely do if sent from iOS via SMS/MMS to Android Messages.

Not seeing how RCS would increase that.
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As far as I know, iOS can't send to Android Messages, which is the primary issue of this whole discussion. No RCS, no rich text messages to Android of any sort.
 
OneBar said:
As far as I know, iOS can't send to Android Messages, which is the primary issue of this whole discussion. No RCS, no rich text messages to Android of any sort.
Click to expand...
Google Messages supports SMS and RCS, just like Apple Messages supports SMS and iMessage. iOS to Android is SMS.
 
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