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Google and FTC Near Deal for Record $22.5 Million Fine over Safari Privacy Circumvention

hipnetic said:
^^^This.
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http://www.forbes.com/2002/10/24/cx_aw_1024fine.html

http://ftc.gov/opp/gpra/2012_performance_plan.pdf
Measure 2.2.5: Take action against anticompetitive conduct in markets with a total of at least $40 billion in annual sales over five-year period; $8 billion each year.
2006 $1.4 billion
2007 $2.6 billion
2008 $0.4 billion
2009 $14.6 billion (231% increase in 09 of combined 2006-8 fines)

http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-08/02-excessive-fines.html

"therefore, while leaving open the issues of whether the Clause has any applicability to civil penalties or to qui tam actions, the Court determined that "the Excessive Fines Clause was intended to limit only those fines directly imposed by, and payable to, the government." The Court has held, however, that the excessive fines clause can be applied in civil forfeiture cases."
 
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MacDav said:
It seems like a lot of money to you, but for google it's equal to about 23 cents. What's important here is not the money, but the fact that they've been exposed. Getting bad PR is more powerful than a fine. They will stop these practices to keep a good image. This goes for all Tech and other companies, including Apple. We need this kind of thing happening in government. That's were the really shady stuff goes on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svGDZOW-brA&feature=youtu.be
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That's what everyone thought too after they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar tracking users through their street view cars.
 
lincolntran said:
One, I rather not have ad at all.

Two, showing ads is just a very small part of what they can do with generic data. They can use your behaviors for ao much more if they want to. Who to say that they're not doing it now. Remember the day where psychologists have to ask you to fill out surveys just to do their research? Those questionnaires were pretty generic too.
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Well, but be aware that this is a little bit different. There were days when researches did not have to ask you to participate and explain why they do the research and what the risks and benefits are. Now, researchers have to go through Initial Review Boards to show that a) their research is benefitial to society, b) that benefit outweighs the risk to the individual participants, and so on. This is true for public research at least. As Psychologist or other professional, you are bound by your licensing boards to go through an IRB review.
On the corporate level though, it's more like data being gold to grab. That's why they call that data mining. Sure, it was mentioned that insurances would like to have a piece of that - and believe me, they won't even tell you why you cannot get health insurance with them. It won't stop there in the United States: You car insurer will up the rates if you had a heart attack because people wished you to get better on Facebook? Sounds impossible? Well, did you participate in the "Like" campaign of your insurance on an iPad sweepstake? Did you read what access they have now? What if the rules change? It is just rediculous that there is no outcry here. The internet is still the Wild West.
 
Yawn.
Pocket change fine that will do nothing to stop similar practices in the future.

If the government was serious about protecting the consumer the fine would be $2.2 billion not $22 million.
 
Okay Then

ugahairydawgs said:
That's what everyone thought too after they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar tracking users through their street view cars.
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Slow learners may need a little extra incentive. Raising the fine to Billions instead of Millions, would definitely grab their attention. Realistically we know this will never happen though. So each consumer needs to do their homework and buy products they feel morally comfortable with. We know this will never happen either. So what's your plan again?
 
MacDav said:
Slow learners may need a little extra incentive. Raising the fine to Billions instead of Millions, would definitely grab their attention. Realistically we know this will never happen though. So each consumer needs to do their homework and buy products they feel morally comfortable with. We know this will never happen either. So what's your plan again?
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I can only go as far as doing my part. So far I have done the following:

Use iCloud for my email and calendars
Use Dropbox and Skydrive for docs
Use Safari on my Macs at home
Use Firefox on my work PC
Use Yahoo for my homepage
Use Bing in my browser search bar
Use an iPhone with the default search set to Bing

Only thing I still use Google for is the e-mail address I have at work. Looking into solutions there to get us off of Google Apps, but it has to make sense for the company to do so. "I don't like Google" won't be a good enough reason.

Shame too....Jelly Bean looks like it has some potential.
 
ugahairydawgs said:
That's what everyone thought too after they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar tracking users through their street view cars.
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That's pretty over-dramatic. They were not "tracking users".

At most, the car was catching a couple of seconds of data as it passed by a hotspot... and that hotspot had to be unprotected (which meant ANYONE could listen in) AND it had to be in use at the time, AND whatever bits of data flying around during those few seconds would be mostly worthless anyway.

flipnap said:
ever since google got busted driving around europe stealing wifi data, then saying "oh we didnt know we were doing that, its a bug" i stopped trusting them..
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According to the reports I've read, Google hired a former well known Silicon Valley wardriver to work on the original code. He used a library he'd already written, which included code to capture open data. After he left, no one took the time to read through his library source and find the leftover code.

That's not evil. That's just programmers who don't have the time (or incentive) to go back and vet someone else's code.

It happens all the time. Heck, look at Apple. They actually DID vet an app and let it into their supposedly locked up App Store, and yet they had ZERO IDEA that it had a hotspot secretly built into it.
 
kdarling said:
According to the reports I've read, Google hired a former well known Silicon Valley wardriver to work on the original code. He used a library he'd already written, which included code to capture open data. After he left, no one took the time to read through his library source and find the leftover code.

That's not evil. That's just programmers who don't have the time (or incentive) to go back and vet someone else's code.

It happens all the time. Heck, look at Apple. They actually DID vet an app and let it into their supposedly locked up App Store, and yet they had ZERO IDEA that it had a hotspot secretly built into it.
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That would be a nice, logical explanation if you weren't able to compound it by pointing the article that started this thread. Google was using security flaws in a web browser to track users when they had explicitly marked that they did not want their user data tracked. Take those two events and add them together with the fact that Google makes their money on the data they collect and it all just comes together to form a shady set of circumstances.

I'm not going to shut the door on Google forever, but they have some work to do in order to win back the trust of at least this one user.

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rendevouspoo said:
I wouldn't call it just potential. They've left everyone in the dust with it.
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That's another argument for another thread, but I'm personally not convinced of that. It's way better than previous versions of Android, but I'm not entirely sure that puts it light years ahead of the rest like some would have you believe.
 
ugahairydawgs said:
That would be a nice, logical explanation if you weren't able to compound it by pointing the article that started this thread.
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I wasn't responding to the article that started this thread. I was responding to the insupportable idea that their street car could be "tracking users" in any way, shape or form. It just wasn't set up to be able to do anything like that.

That's in contrast to the thread topic, where someone obviously did make a purposeful decision to work around user choices.

These are two different situations, although both are almost certainly due to a small group of people, rather than to any covert upper management decisions.
 
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Duckduckgo.com

FWIW, gave up on Google search engine a few months ago out of frustration -- kept getting junk results no matter the varied query terms, too many commercial sites, too many shopping "suggestions" related to past purchases/searches in spite of conservative privacy settings. (The calendar and gmail are not user friendly, either, imo.)
Did a (challenging) search for recommended search engine alternative, found duckduckgo.com. Clean interface. Fast, straight-to-the-target results list. Options to make it default on Safari (all devices) & other browsers, can customize, including removing ALL tracking. So far, a maps-search means choosing an alt-browser, but it's painless. I also use AdBlock, ClickToFlash, and WOT extensions and they've prevented some nasty clickfalls.
Re. Vimeo not having large "enough" audience: Seems like youth use it a lot, and if enough of us bail on YouTube and move to Vimeo or some other (hopefully) less invasive host...
Am also hoping for a trustworthy FaceBook alternative, sooner than later. "Closed" a LinkedIn account ("deleting" each piece of personal info first, in hopes of blocking future use of the info) after seeing FB friends with no business/school association pop up as suggested contacts. DDG (rather than google) it: there's a lot of unsettling alleged privacy violation going on in both camps.
Worries me that so many young people say, "so what?" attitude. Elders grew up with more rights-to-privacy and jr./high school required reading like 1984. Many take the long view that the direction we're herded [*not a typo*] can't be good.
The Big Brother irony is not lost on me, but government "greed" accusations? Hey, if they can quash unethical business practices AND keep my personal info out of as many wrong hands as possible AND get compensated for fulfilling duties AND without raising the ire of Tea Partiers... more power to them.
 
Rocketman said:
I noticed that virtually every federal agency has been announcing record fines of one sort or another. They must need the money. The fines are always long post facto for behavior that changed a few days after the letter was sent. The "victims" never get any compensation. This is a pure federal money grab.

Rocketman
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I also see it as the fed is finally doing its job and not letting company just break the law freely. It means slapping companies wil some real fines that are far in excess of the profit made off breaking some law.

I know many company will knownly break the law and take fines because they make more profit doing that method that the fines take out.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I also see it as the fed is finally doing its job and not letting company just break the law freely. It means slapping companies wil some real fines that are far in excess of the profit made off breaking some law.

I know many company will knowingly break the law and take fines because they make more profit doing that method that the fines take out.
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Maybe, but enforcement of regulations is entirely arbitrary. They could accomplish 5x the results by sending letters clearly stating where the bright lines of tolerance are. But what they do instead is make the regulations vague and incomprehensible, get a hair up, and do some selective enforcement, using "novel theories", rarely used methods, or good old fashioned "audible" calls, BY SURPRISE.

I see it all the time in the chemical, trucking, pollution, and hazmat worlds. This is the same thing.

This is not being done for some high purpose. It is to generate media that they are "doing something" targeted at their political base. That's why the particular enforcements they select to do are consistent with their political messaging.

It is not random coincidence. It is exercise of power.

Rocketman
 
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