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There were touch screens before but I think no one can say that a phone like the iPhone existed before. Just like no phone was like the Qualcomm/Kyocera Palm Phone from 2000 I was playing with years ago. But between that Palm phone and the iPhone there were many variations of that theme (including BlackBerry -- I had one of the first models out there back then, too). Just as the phones now are variations of the iPhone.

Revolutions come sporadically. Everything else is just evolution/iteration.

That is what I meant with the Apples innovation is the 'whole package' - there was nothing like it before. Some 'parts' and 'components' existed but not as well done as in the iPhone.
 
This should be made a sticky thread. Too many Apple evangelicals seem to think everything Apple does is revolutionary, most of it, if not all is just evolutionary.

Sorry.... but I disagree. When they do innovate, it's major.

Where Apple innovates the most is usually not with any one technology, but how the whole package comes together. They have totally changed the electronics market as others have seen what good UI and total user experience can do for a product. Apple is a master of the total product experience. As well as innovative.

Where people call the "fanboys" blind sheep, I see the "na-sayers" as just as blind to what Apple has done.
 
Apple isn't responding to competition with lawsuits, it's responding to to theft of its protected innovations with lawsuits. The Google statement is twist on Steve Jobs comment the other day that its competitors would rather steal its ideas than pursue their own innovations and compete. The problem with it though is that it doesn't work well turned around on Apple, who just won the first round in the patent case affirming that it was Apple that was the innovator and had the property right.
 
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Is Eric T. Mole flapping his gums again?

What is it *this time*, Eric? It's not enough you ripped off Apple something serious, but you then have to point an accusatory finger at them. Apple made your market for you and for everyone else. And they're still doing it.

Apple is the one that has been doing all the "innovating" in the first place. Not little UI changes, but redefinitions of entire markets, and the creation of new ones. With stuff that at first blush baffles everyone, until Apple shows them it's "safe" to jump in.

Android would probably look like BlackBerry OS (just look at the original screenshots) if iOS hadn't been released. But Eric was taking notes at those board meetings.

First came the iPhone. Then, out of nowhere, everything else looked like an iPhone. Everyone else introduced an App Store modelled on the REAL App Store.

Apple releases the iPad. Then every other tablet out there (the also-rans suddenly got back into the game, I wonder why) started looking like an iPad. Well, alright, they *tried* to look like an iPad. But all they really provide is comic relief in doing so.

No wonder Steve was monumentally pissed at Eric.

Apple has been getting ripped off since 2007. They are now responding because there is too much out there that violates their IP. The infringements have reached critical mass. Apple is now looking to clean up the game. This is normal.

Exactly. People can argue with you. Call you a troll. Call you a fanboy. But there were NO PHONES like the iPhone until AFTER the iPhone. At least HP is ATTEMPTING to be their own thing.
 
Not a patent suit.



As you say, not a patent suit.

...So the answer would be no?

Like I said, Apple has not historically gone after competitors with patents since the major competitor that copied them was Microsoft and they have many patents that Apple needs as well. So I do not recall any patent suits Apple has won, nor do I recall many patent suits they have lost. The next 18 months should give evidence of the strength of Apple's patent portfolio. I do know that Nokia cross-licensed with Apple, but Nokia had the bigger portfolio in the mobile phone space, and therefore the cross-license deal involves Apple paying money to Nokia, though both get rights to each other's patents. Essentially, Apple paid for rights to Nokia patents with cash and with rights to their own patents -- surely Nokia saw value in licensing the Apple patents or else they would have just asked for more cash and told Apple to keep their patent rights.
 
iPhones home screen is one of the ugliest on the market. Straight up grid of ugly icons, nothing more. They took that and slapped it onto a giant screen, named it an iPad and called it a day.

Most uninspiring GUI of any mobile platform.

If it is so bad, why is Samsung copying it in so much detail in their UI layer?
Shouldn't they in that case stay away from it as far as possible and use their better innovative design to their advantage? Guess it is not that bad after all.
 
The first time I saw Android in action, the conversation went like this...


Me: "Oh cool a new phone?!? Wow what is that a new version of iOS?"
Other Guy: "No it's Android, way better than iPhone."
Me: "It looks like they just ripped off the UI like a bad Chinese knock-off"
Other Guy: "No, it's much better. Except I keep sending text messages to the wrong people, I think I need to reconfigure my....." (My attention trails off and I just respond..)
Me: "Well, Good luck with that.... let me know if the spaceship makes it to Mars."
 
I don't hate Google quite as much as you do. Actually, I don't really hate them at all. Aside from your last sentence, I totally agree. I was about to post something quite similar to this. I think Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft could team up and shut them down. But then who would be left to do all the innovating? ;)
 
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If it is so bad, why is Samsung copying it in so much detail in there UI layer?
Should they in that case stay away from it as far as possible and use their better innovative design to their advantage? Guess it is not that bad after all.

I'm not defending samsung nor was it a comparison directly for Android, so don't put words into my mouth and don't act like the typical apple fanboy on this forum. Nowhere in my comment did I make any reference to the Samsung or Android itself. So congratulations on perpetuating this ridiculous hatred against another corporation and praise towards another that doesnt care about you AT ALL.

But if you want my take on the whole situation:

Samsungs grid of icons is not the home screen. It works fine as a screen to display your applications as shortcuts, literally every mobile phone manufacturer has been this LONG before Apple has.

HOWEVER, as a homescreen, its crap.
 
He shouldnt be worried. Android has over 550k new activations a day and is still growing! Just imagine if they get to a million a day! Its a great OS with some of the industries top phones such as the Galaxy S2 and the Sensation. They just keep raising the bar with new features of Android. Ios is just left in the dust and has been playing catch up to Android for ages. Apple just keep copying features of Android such as the notification system.

Keep on raising the bar for everyone Google.
 
The War!

Hey Google, the war is over. Apple wun it years ago. :apple:

In terms of innovations anyhow.
 
Did you defend Apple or the others during Apple's last keynote when it ripped off Google's cloud, Androids notifications and RIM's BBM service???

Let's start this **** again.

- Google's cloud? Ever heard of iTools? MobileMe has accomplished the same things for years and iCloud just takes it further. Google could even imagine what Apple is going to achieve with iCloud. And what's the copy nonsense? What do you mean, copying Google's cloud?

- Android notifications: yeah the same **** UNIX, Macintosh systems, WindowsMobile have had for years. Yeah right.

- RIM's BBM: ACQ, Gtalk, windows messenger, other chat clients. Are they not a copy? Oh, you mean they also work on a computer that's why they are different? Or you mean that they need an email address or an ID for identification but iMessage does not?

Get over it: even BBM needs an identification which is the so called 'BB-Pin'. Apple just took 'chat' (and not BBM) to the next level where everything is integrated. BBM is a different client and is not integrated with messaging at all; although iMessage is. I know that webOS probably owns this department, but iMessage is a great improvement. You just don't need any support. It just works.

And yes, I need you to reply as I'm pretty sure you're going to Engadget next and posting the same non-sense there.
 
He would be a hypocrite if Google was suing other companies over patents, which it's not. Please, explain to me, how is Eric / google a hypocrite?

While he may not be a hypocrite at the surface. Google's "successes" are due to them copying Apple's IP.

For him to tell competitors to innovate instead of sue is some what hypocritical because google doesn't innovate themselves. Google just copies what ever Apple or Facebook are doing, but offer it for free by funding it through advertising. (I do recognize that Facebook is free)

Having one's IP protected (and having the ability to sue) so one can profit from ones IP is what encourages innovation in the first place.

Schmidt by telling others to innovate when his company simply poaches other's ideas, diminishing ones incentives to innovate, seems pretty hypocritical to me.
 
...Nokia did in fact have many patents that Apple needed so Apple is paying them license fees now to use them.

The Nokia suit was a bit different from most others. Apple wasn't claiming that the patents were invalid, rather that Nokia was asking unfair terms for licensing. Since the suit was settled, we don't know the specific terms of the deal. For all we know Apple got the price they wanted. As a result we can't claim that Nokia 'won'.

Everybody pays Nokia. Their patents are intrinsic to GMS and wifi.
(except Google. Google doesn't sell anything that requires a license. Android phones are sold by HTC, Moto, Samsung, etc... They have licenses with Nokia already)
 
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Did you defend Apple or the others during Apple's last keynote when it ripped off Google's cloud, Androids notifications and RIM's BBM service???

Wow, really??? Ok, lets set up a table with Google on one side, and Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and all the original search engine providers on the other. Infringements against each side cancel each other out, one for one. Who do you think would be left holding all the excess?

Aside from that obvious analogy, I am pretty sure that Google and RIM do not hold the patents that the cited products are based on anyway.
 
I don't hate Google quite as much as you do. Actually, I don't really hate them at all. Aside from your last sentence, I totally agree. I was about to post something quite similar to this. I think Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft could team up and shut them down. But then who would be left to do all the innovating? ;)

I don't hate them as much as it was in my post.

I do use most of their services. Even planning to quit Facebook just cause I need something new for e.g. Google+ or twitter.

It's just that 'their' evil practices and their hypocritical behaviour is beyond me now. I just can't stand them.
 
Eric Schmidt is such a hoser, he said Apple hasn't responded with innovation? Apple products are way more innovative than Android, that is why they are suing Android because it copies other companies innovation.
 
While he may not be a hypocrite at the surface. Google's "successes" are due to them copying Apple's IP.

For him to tell competitors to innovate instead of sue is some what hypocritical because google doesn't innovate themselves. Google just copies what ever Apple or Facebook are doing, but offer it for free by funding it through advertising. (I do recognize that Facebook is free)

Google has dozens and dozens of side projects that are extremely innovative, don't overlook those. The problem is they let them run for about a year, and if some sort of spectacular demand hasn't appeared (out of nowhere for products they barely advertise) it gets shut down.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if the BS "Don't be evil" mantra included a policy that any cancelled or discontinued projects get released as open source projects for the world to use. I really liked their health tracker idea as well as the energy usage project, both killed recently.
 
For starters how about the notification screen that Apple is now ripping off Android for IOS 5. How about the cloud that Apple is not ripping off them? I switched to an Android based phone after having two iPhones and it is a much better platform than the iPhone. Unfortunately, the fanboys don't take time to really get to know what they're bashing, they just bash and run off a the mouth because it's what fanboys do. Once you've seen how great Google integration is you'll never go want to go back to an iPhone.

Apple is using notifications like the Palm system and the system in the Cydia store. Interestingly, both of those developers actually work for Apple now.

Perhaps you had a good experience with a phone running the Android OS, congratulations. The mistake you are making is refering to Android as if it represents some consistent experience.


Did you defend Apple or the others during Apple's last keynote when it ripped off Google's cloud, Androids notifications and RIM's BBM service???

Google's cloud? On what planet. Palm and Cydia notifications sure. There were actually IM programs on mobile devices before BBM, and iMessage works a lot more like Facetime chat then bbm.
 
"Think The Same"

Darned Apple. Wish they were "innovators." Everything out of Cupertino's just the same ol' same ol'. Nothing new. Clones & ripoffs. Been there, done that. Yawn.
 
Oh for the naysayers and people with their panties in a twist - he responded as a CEO of Google SHOULD respond. You can not like it all you want... but from a PR stand point it was exactly what and how it should be said.

When Jobs said something in a similar vane (about protecting their assets) most people on here applauded him.

This is no different and is great politics.

BTW - anyone who thinks that Android is going to die because of HTC's "skirmish" is deluding themselves.

Nah, Android will die when Larry Ellison drives a stake thru it's heart for ripping off Java.

HTC and all the other clone phone makers will switch to Windows mobile to avoid the fees and a dead-end platform.

All your patents does belong to us.

Too bad for all the droids out there.
 
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