Google Claims That Apple Did Reject Google Voice iPhone Application

[KnightWRX]

Does the fact that the vast majority don't care about this issue, yet you do, make you right? Does that make those who don't care wrong?

Tough call all around.

Clearly, Apple is doing most things right with the iPhone. There are a few niggles here and there, but in terms of the big picture, they're minor. If you and others wish to treat them as something more and go on and on for pages and pages, that's entirely up to you.

For someone who doesn't care, you sure go on and on about how Apple is right and that AT&T is the responsible party and that Apple never made any mistakes, and that any change in attitude is just because "now is the time, before it wasn't".

And for something minor, it sure has gotten a lot of media attention. Newsweek's bloggers have a fun little article that seems just right for you too :

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/tech...ity-distortion-field-has-stopped-working.aspx

Apple's "reality distortion field" has stopped working

How else to explain the latest cartoon from the guys at Joy of Tech? Nobody -- not even hardcore fanboys -- is willing to believe that Apple was telling the truth when it told the FCC that it had not rejected Google Voice from the App Store, and was just taking a long time to study the issue. Google fired back and released a copy of the letter that it sent to the FCC, in which Google claims that Apple clearly did reject Google Voice. Michael Arrington of TechCrunch says he's heard Google has a screen shot of the actual rejection notice and will be ready to "nuke" Apple with it. Apple continues to stand by its story and insist it never rejected Google's application. From the looks of the cartoon above, I'd say Apple is not convincing many people. That in itself is kind of newsworthy. In the past, when Apple told a whopper, fanboy journalists wrote it off with a chuckle as another example of the "reality distortion field." Now they're holding Apple's feet to the fire. Interesting.

Ouch. Minor indeed.

 

[hoosierfan24]

I am not surprised either

 

[CylonGlitch]

Copy Protection is a thing of the past. You can remove it from any past purchases also, for a fee. Again, nothing locks you out of your music (and you knew about the DRM when you purchased it).

Could you please PM me the directions on how to do this, if I try to do it through iTunes it says I have to upgrade them all to iTunes Plus for $0.20 each or something like that.

 

[ViViDboarder]

Could you please PM me the directions on how to do this, if I try to do it through iTunes it says I have to upgrade them all to iTunes Plus for $0.20 each or something like that.

Yea... That's the fee.

OR... You can just burn all your DRM music to a CD-RW and then rip it back to your library DRM free.

Erase and repeat.

 

[D4F]

Cheap a$$ Apple.
Nothing new.
I use google voice A LOT with my G1. $0.02 per minute to Europe.

 

[kernkraft]

It's so extreme and totalitarian for me!

Which has the been the attitude of MS designers and engineers for the last decade.

What has Microsoft anything to do with this? I am talking about Apple and they deny a basic consumer choice from me. I don't think your argument is anywhere deep as the ones I called shallow.

Maintaining the User Experience has its price. But I'd rather sacrifice an app or two for it than throw the baby out with the bathwater.

OK, here the price is that you cannot do something that it would be natural for everybody else. I don't get the baby-bathwater analogy. Not allowing a few app is also not the same as sacrificing them.

The whole point is that Apple designs and controls the user experience. That's the hook. That's one of the keys to their success. Hence, the iPhone. You're describing a Windows-centric situation, which is the last thing anyone needs. And judging by the success of the iPhone so far, Apple's strategy is working out beautfully.

Are you getting paid by Apple? What 'user experience' is not to have an alternative that is cheaper than what Apple is forcing upon you? Do you get the freedom to reject it if it's crap? Nope. Apple wanted to decide that it is not good for them, hence it is not good for the customer. Guess, what - I, a customer think differently.

That whole Windows-idea is completely unnecessary. You don't have to be so blinded to justify anything on the ground that Apple is different from Microsoft. I think the whole 'Apple-n@@@' idea originates from the fact, that some sad people think it is a black and white situation. No, it's not. It's not WW2! The Jedi can make mistakes too, young Skywalker.

I'd rather Apple take the User Experience paradigm too far than start to erode it little by little. That ish starts to add up over time.

So you admit that the whole shallow 'user experience' phenomenon is just a paradigm? It seems, Apple is taking its own model too rigidly. Ironically, the company with the cool and relaxed image should employ a bit more creativity to realise that real life is not always about their clinical world and pre-defined solutions. Freedom can be good, you know. Sometimes, maybe sometimes, their customers can be treated as individuals, who can decide if they don't like something.

It's a single app out of 70,000+ apps. Get over it. It might be worth asking for, but it's in no way, shape or form worth altering Apple's core strategy.

Google is just a single company out of millions. Apple is just another single IT company out of tens of thousands.

Precedents are set by individual cases. Making the incident look irrelevant is just not solving the problem.

Apple's App Store and iTunes are by far the market leaders in what they do, just like Microsoft was at the time when their inclusion of one single browser of their own was severely penalised by the European Commission. If the present incident was something to play down, relevant departments would not be worried about what happened, when, who said what and so on. 'Federal Communications Commission' and 'investigation' sound pretty serious to me. Apple can be fined here. Personally, I hope they will be. Not because I hate Apple. Because I hate this behaviour, from ANY company. I think that is the main difference between us.

About the 70.000+... well, I could happily part from 70.000 for this one. I am using a dozen, not more. But Google's application would definitely make it on my list. I leave the fart generators and hot teens for those, who want to take 'user experience to the next level'.

User Experience is EVERYTHING.

And Jedis are always right. What do you want to do next, Anakin? Building an Apple Star? Starting terminating those, not seeing how perfect Apple is in every situation? The 'n' word would be in place.

 

[KnightWRX]

There's no reasoning with *LTD*. Better to ignore him like he ignores the most important word in "user experience" (and no, it's not experience).

 

[electroshock]

There's a price to pay for the "Apple experience." Always has been. Total openness and transparency is not one of the ideals (and never was) that are high on Apple's list or priorities. It's a closed system. But one that manages to be far, far more attractive and usable than all the others out there.

Just wanted to point out that your assertion that the Apple experience never was open is not quite correct. For most of Apple's first decade, they went as far as publishing circuit schematics and firmware listings -- I have one such manual. A big part of that was due to Steve Wozniak's philosophy. But that changed prominently with the Steve Jobs era (who strongly favored a closed design and a more tightly controlled user experience), especially with the Macintosh.

I have no real opinion yet on the AAPL vs. GOOG issue, but would guess Apple's probably legally in the clear on the various fronts and likely would survive any regulatory scrutiny.

 

[*LTD*]

There's no reasoning with *LTD*. Better to ignore him like he ignores the most important word in "user experience" (and no, it's not experience).

Then you'd better tell the USERS to stop buying Macs in record numbers (not to mention iPods, iPhones etc.), in a recession, especially when there are cheaper Windows-based options out there that apparently offer greater "value" . . . Except for a lot of people ready to spend $1000+. Even though they are actively, willfully, deliberately choosing Apple and continue to do so. Of course, the mountains of customer satisfaction surveys over the years, Macs selling in record numbers, and general peerless desirability of Apple tech isn't based on the "user experience", right?

Want to talk "user"? Apple is the most user-centric tech company on the planet today. But that aint me talking. It's the consumer. It's facts. But I guess it's all a shadowy lie, or a Grand Deception, and it's something else entirely. The only "real" consumers - the ones whose opinion is worth anything, is hanging out on MR, right?

I choose to ignore GV as a major issue with respect to User Experience, because in the grand scheme of what Apple offers in terms of the User Experience, it counts for almost nothing.

I draw my info from the facts we get from Apple's market base - what we know about customer satisfaction, quarterly reports, company performance, user surveys that are readily available around the web, things like this:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/22467/

. . . and similar information. And this is available from a wide variety of sources, going back to at least 2006.

What are you doing? Where are you pulling your information from? A segment of an already small segment: members of Mac forums. Already a rather obscure bunch, made even smaller because not everyone even amongst yourselves agrees with you.

So when it comes to User Experience, on the one hand you've got FACTS. And on the other hand you've got the personal opinion of about 20 or so MR members (far fewer on AI, by the way), and probably the same number on other Apple fansites, with a few tech journalists who live on the ass-end of the web.

So really, who's more in touch - in fact, let me correct that - who is the better authority to discuss "User Experience" as it relates to Apple. You? Or the FACTS, compiled over the course of several years?

Again, you're confining your concerns to the context of GV. Well, don't. Because GV is an infinitesimal fragment compared to the the reality of the big picture.

And this FCC involvement might very well be a double-edged sword: it's all fun and games until GV is subject to common carrier rules. With Google Voice, Google is looking to be a free rider on the carriers' networks while syphoning off their revenues.

So, please, by all means continue to advise everyone who to ignore and who to listen to. Since you speak for everyone here. Which doesn't bother me, because most of your opinions about Apple (and many others here) are completely divergent from reality.

 

[KnightWRX]

Then you'd better tell the USERS to stop buying Macs in record numbers (not to mention iPods, iPhones etc.), in a recession, especially when there are cheaper Windows-based options out there that apparently offer greater "value" . . .

Why do you contradict yourself, AGAIN ? You said the iPhone and Macs weren't the same beasts. I have no restrictions on my Mac. I installed Macports, and I use tons of Free software on it, and I use tons of 3rd party software, none specifically approved by Apple.

These are all points you said made the Mac a different platform. So why bring it unto the table now ?

Again, the problem with the iPhone is not the device or the OS. It's apple's control. This will impact some users more than others as Apple dictates the Experience, rather than the user dictating the experience.

Face it, some users do have needs that are well met by the iPhone's current ecosystem, while others require a bit more openess. In the end, if you want to claim Apple is trying to garantee a User Experience, this is not it.

This is the Apple Experience. And eventually, this will hurt them. If the Mac had such a closed ecosystem, it wouldn't be where it is today. The Mac thrived on 3rd party software since it's inception, and it's these 3rd parties that made the platform great (Adobe comes to mind).

 

[*LTD*]

Why do you contradict yourself, AGAIN ? You said the iPhone and Macs weren't the same beasts. I have no restrictions on my Mac. I installed Macports, and I use tons of Free software on it, and I use tons of 3rd party software, none specifically approved by Apple.

These are all points you said made the Mac a different platform. So why bring it unto the table now ?

Again, the problem with the iPhone is not the device or the OS. It's apple's control. This will impact some users more than others as Apple dictates the Experience, rather than the user dictating the experience.

Face it, some users do have needs that are well met by the iPhone's current ecosystem, while others require a bit more openess. In the end, if you want to claim Apple is trying to garantee a User Experience, this is not it.

This is the Apple Experience. And eventually, this will hurt them. If the Mac had such a closed ecosystem, it wouldn't be where it is today. The Mac thrived on 3rd party software since it's inception, and it's these 3rd parties that made the platform great (Adobe comes to mind).

Apple's control is the exact reason for the iPhone's success.

This is the Apple Experience. And eventually, this will hurt them

Let us know when this "eventually, this wil hurt them" fluff is actually going to happen. Because Apple's numbers certainly don't support it, and they're on track to yet again sell a record number of iPhones. We're not seeing developers flocking to any other platform, and by the looks of it, we won't be seeing that anytime soon.

Again, your comments have no acutal basis in reality.

Market Share Change (Absolute)
Apple 10.5%
HTC 1.9%
RIM 1.4%
Fujitsu -0.3%
Nokia -2.0%
Others -11.2%

Big losers = Windows, Palm

Wow, you really can't admit Apple might be wrong here. You'd rather call them liars and slaves to AT&T than admit they might have made a mistake.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...nst_net_neutrality_for_wireless_networks.html

AT&T's role is becoming clearer by the day. I'll bet Verizon will be next to oppose, if they haven't already done so.

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple's control is the exact reason for the iPhone's success.

I doubt Apple's control is the reason of the iPhone's success. The reason for the iPhone's success is the fact that it brought Smartphones to the masses. It integrated the PDA with the PMP with the cellphone, in a package not destined to businesses. That was the initial launch.

Then the App Store came. An easy way to obtain games and applications for a platform where such things weren't easy before or were fragmented and under the control service providers. You wanted X game, well, Rogers didn't offer it for their phones, only Bell or Telus, even though they had the CDMA versions of the same device you had. That was the 2nd step of their success.

Now we're here. People are whining, developers are getting edgy and looking at other, newer platforms, with less restrictions. Everyone is jumping on the Android bandwagon and this fall will see an explosion of such devices. Everyone is gearing up their centralised stores or marketplaces, some way more open than Apple.

Nokia is still market leader after 2 years of Apple being on the market. They are still a distant 3rd after RIM, and their phenomal growth is only because they weren't even in the market before. It's easy to have 300% growth when going from 0.1% market share to 0.3% (extreme exemple, but you get the point).

Nokia and RIM won't exhibit the same growth as Apple because they are already well established. Once Apple is too, you will see more normal growth or decline, depending on how the iPhone is doing.

The grumbling is just starting. Google Voice is the first high visilibity reject, but there have been many other stories. If this keeps up, you will see developers abandonning the platform. Some are already not even looking at the iPhone because of this.

If you want to deny it, and you want to think that Apple's success up to now was all because of this supposed control, and not just some buying frenzy into a new trendy device, then fine. But the day that Apple opens up their approval process and makes it more accessible and open to everyone in order to appease the growing resentment people are feeling towards the iPhone, is the day I will post a big bold : I TOLD YOU SO *LTD*. And no amount of you trying to say that they were right all along and are still right is going to change that.

 

[*LTD*]

People are whining, developers are getting edgy and looking at other, newer platforms, with less restrictions. Everyone is jumping on the Android bandwagon and this fall will see an explosion of such devices. Everyone is gearing up their centralised stores or marketplaces, some way more open than Apple.

Who's whining? People on Apple fansites? Because that's pretty much the crowd that's actually noticed the GV-FCC-alleged developer grumbling phenomenon, and actually cares enough to talk about it.

All these developers getting ready to jump ship? Again, we're hearing about this so-called Android explosion. Yet today, Android software feels like a beta. Android is nowhere at the moment, but oh wait, you'll see, come this fall it'll all change!

As long as the iPhone continues to sell in record numbers (and by the looks of it, it will), developers are staying put. These also-rans hardly have OSes that are mature enough, never mind scant, small app stores that seem to remain stifled. While Apple is already on its 3rd gen iPhone with a booming App Store. Currently, the iPhone is unstoppable. Period. With he existence of the iPhone, you can't market anything else in an appreciable way.

The iPhone "trend" is beginning to look exactly like the iPod "trend." The competition has a very limited window of opportunity to get its act together before there's no point in staying in the game at all.

When this "grumbling" and the like translates into real, material numbers, then you can say "I told you so." But right now you're just blowing expanded and elaborated "I can't use GV so the iPhone is doomed" smoke.

 

[ViViDboarder]

Who's whining? People on Apple fansites? Because that's pretty much the crowd that's actually noticed the GV-FCC-alleged developer grumbling phenomenon, and actually cares enough to talk about it.

All these developers getting ready to jump ship? Again, we're hearing about this so-called Android explosion. Yet today, Android software feels like a beta. Android is nowhere at the moment, but oh wait, you'll see, come this fall it'll all change!

As long as the iPhone continues to sell in record numbers (and by the looks of it, it will), developers are staying put. These also-rans hardly have OSes that are mature enough, never mind scant, small app stores that seem to remain stifled. While Apple is already on its 3rd gen iPhone with a booming App Store. Currently, the iPhone is unstoppable. Period. With he existence of the iPhone, you can't market anything else in an appreciable way.

The iPhone "trend" is beginning to look exactly like the iPod "trend." The competition has a very limited window of opportunity to get its act together before there's no point in staying in the game at all.

When this "grumbling" and the like translates into real, material numbers, then you can say "I told you so." But right now you're just blowing expanded and elaborated "I can't use GV so the iPhone is doomed" smoke.

Umm... The iPhone is not even close to what the iPod was for MP3 players...

The iPod is pretty much a standard now and a brand name. I've heard people call other mp3 players iPods because that's all they know. The iPod came out just as MP3 players were springing up!

The iPhone is out after cellphones and smartphones have been around for years. It's no major breakthrough. They don't even have a huge marketshare. They compete with Blackberry and Android phones but Apple doesn't even have close to an edge on the market. They have not revolutionized phones.

For years people have been able to download Apps to smartphones, Apple just decided to appeal to more developers. You'll very quickly see this trend across more phone platforms and it's already beginning.

I like my iPhone 3G but I'm not sold on the iPhone for life. I'd like to see what the next gen is from every major player in this industry because everyone has the potential to have the next greatest phone. Not just Apple.

 

[KnightWRX]

Who's whining? People on Apple fansites? Because that's pretty much the crowd that's actually noticed the GV-FCC-alleged developer grumbling phenomenon, and actually cares enough to talk about it.

Maybe if you'd actually bother to read something else than Apple fansites you'd see. This has been all over the news, this has been on business related sites, financial sites.

Other people than just geeks are getting PO'd at this. I've seen it first hand from people around me. They aren't geeks, they don't hang out on Apple fansites. They are tired of the control and they believe that they should do what they want with a device they bought.

All these developers getting ready to jump ship? Again, we're hearing about this so-called Android explosion. Yet today, Android software feels like a beta. Android is nowhere at the moment, but oh wait, you'll see, come this fall it'll all change!

Android feels like Beta ? You haven't used Android much have you ? Android is just fine. Not only that, Android is ahead of iPhone as far as tethering goes (they had since day 1, before iPhone OS 3.0) and for Augmented Reality apps (again, day 1, iPhone OS 3.1 just brings this to the table). Apple is playing catch up because of many of the features of Android.

The problem has been device availability. Motorola has just jumped onto the bandwagon with Samsung in the last few weeks. LG is coming up with a device soon, Sony Ericsson also.

So you can try to ridicule Android all you want, it just shows your ignorance. When people say Android is coming this fall, it's because the press releases are out, and the availability dates are set.

Oh and just one thing. If you're still doubting, here's the SE phone, complete with 5 MP camera, 800x480 screen, 1 GHZ Qualcomm snapdragon processor :

 

[polaris20]

Let us know when this "eventually, this wil hurt them" fluff is actually going to happen

It's already happened once, in the 80's, remember? When Windows got a huge market share because Apple controlled everything, and didn't license out their OS like MS?

Apple's total control of their platform is a blessing and a curse.

Who's whining? People on Apple fansites? Because that's pretty much the crowd that's actually noticed the GV-FCC-alleged developer grumbling phenomenon, and actually cares enough to talk about it.

You're not serious, are you? Do you read other tech-related sites other than Apple fan sites?

Oh and just one thing. If you're still doubting, here's the SE phone, complete with 5 MP camera, 800x480 screen, 1 GHZ Qualcomm snapdragon processor :

Ouch, that looks hot. Any idea what carrier it'll be on? I need a new phone to replace my Crapberry Curve.

 

[ViViDboarder]

It's already happened once, in the 80's, remember? When Windows got a huge market share because Apple controlled everything, and didn't license out their OS like MS?

Apple's total control of their platform is a blessing and a curse.

Great point! I almost forgot about that.

It is the "Apple" way though. Like people said many times before, the 1984 ad has new meaning...

This is part of their image though. The fact that they are so controlling of their devices add to the "exclusivity" of their products.

• Only get OSX on a Mac.
• Only get OSX Touch on an iPhone/iTouch.
• Only get to use the Apps that we want you to use.

It's a control game and while the first two have ended up creating a demand for Apple, the last I don't think is going to be received in the same way.

 

[*LTD*]

It's no major breakthrough. They have not revolutionized phones.

Which is why everyone and their dog in the industry is scrambling to follow Apple.

Apple changed the entire mobile handset game overnight. Nearly all the handset tech you see out there today - capacitive touch screen, apps, etc., is due to what Apple did in 2007.

Remember what the world was like before Apple introduced the iPhone:

• Phones were reduced to cheap, disposable lures for carriers’ service contracts
  
• There was no revenue sharing between carriers and manufacturers
  
• There was no notion of phone networks becoming dumb pipes anytime soon
  
• Affordable, unlimited data plans as standard were unheard of
  
• A phone that would entice people to switch networks by the millions was a pipe dream
  
• Mobile devices were phones first and last, not usable handheld computers
  
• Even the smartest phones didn’t have seamless WiFi integration
  
• Without Visual Voice Mail, messages couldn’t be managed non-linearly
  
• There were no manufacturer owned and operated on-the-phone application stores as the sole source
  
• An on-the-phone store having 65,000 apps downloaded nearly 2 billion times was not on anyone’s radar screen
  
• Low-cost, high-volume app pricing strategy with a 70/30 split didn’t exist
  
• Robust one-click in-app transactions were unknown
  
• There was no efficient, large scale, consistent and lucrative mobile app market for developers large and small
  
• Buttons, keys, joysticks, sliders…anything but the screen was the focus of phones
  
• Phones didn’t come with huge 3.5″ touch screens
  
• Pervasive multitouch, gesture-based UI was science fiction
  
• Actually usable, multi-language, multitouch virtual keyboards on phones didn’t exist
  
• Integrated sensors like accelerometers and proximity detectors had no place in phones
  
• Phones could never compete in 3D/gaming with dedicated portable consoles
  
• iPod-class audio/video players on mobiles didn’t exist
  
• No phone had ever offered a desktop-like web browser experience
  
• Sophisticated SDKs and phones were strangers to each other

And on and on.

It’s sobering to remember that a single device by a company with zero experience in the industry and against all odds caused such a tidal wave of change.

Change didn’t come because of Nokia, Microsoft, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, RIM or any other player in the market for the past 15 years. Android and webOS weren’t there before the iPhone.

Revolution? That's putting it mildly.

 

[KnightWRX]

Ouch, that looks hot. Any idea what carrier it'll be on? I need a new phone to replace my Crapberry Curve.

Official announcement and release for the Sony Ericsson is only supposed to be in January, though there are more and more leaks of it.

For now, we have to make do with Motorola, Samsung, LG and HTC... all very minor players compared to Apple .

Which is why everyone and their dog in the industry is scrambling to follow Apple.

They are ? Who's this everyone ? Because I see a few players on board, a distant 3rd place marketshare, and very little big name developers besides EA. On the hardware side, the real players of the cellphone industry, well Apple is alone there. Carriers ? Nada, because Apple is too tight on its control.

But on the other hand, Android is now on devices from 4 major hardware players with more to come. There's rumors of Dell and Sony Ericsson coming onboard with the platform. It will be China's official smartphone, available on all 3 major carriers there. It will soon be on 3 of the top 4 carriers in the US (Sprint just announced the Sprint HTC Hero available in October, Verizon is getting the HTC Predator). There are now Internet Tablets (from Archos) coming with Android as the OS installed, so it's going beyond cellphones.

And finally, Android is now in the same position Apple was in 2007, they just launched, and they're getting crazy media attention. We'll see in 2 years if it destroyed the iPhone's growth or not. My bet is that it'll detrone RIM and the blackberry before the iPhone does.

 

[ViViDboarder]

Which is why everyone and their dog in the industry is scrambling to follow Apple.

Apple changed the entire mobile handset game overnight. Nearly all the handset tech you see out there today - capacitive touch screen, apps, etc., is due to what Apple did in 2007.

Remember what the world was like before Apple introduced the iPhone:

• Phones were reduced to cheap, disposable lures for carriers’ service contracts
  
• There was no revenue sharing between carriers and manufacturers
  
• There was no notion of phone networks becoming dumb pipes anytime soon
  
• Affordable, unlimited data plans as standard were unheard of
  
• A phone that would entice people to switch networks by the millions was a pipe dream
  
• Mobile devices were phones first and last, not usable handheld computers
  
• Even the smartest phones didn’t have seamless WiFi integration
  
• Without Visual Voice Mail, messages couldn’t be managed non-linearly
  
• There were no manufacturer owned and operated on-the-phone application stores as the sole source
  
• An on-the-phone store having 65,000 apps downloaded nearly 2 billion times was not on anyone’s radar screen
  
• Low-cost, high-volume app pricing strategy with a 70/30 split didn’t exist
  
• Robust one-click in-app transactions were unknown
  
• There was no efficient, large scale, consistent and lucrative mobile app market for developers large and small
  
• Buttons, keys, joysticks, sliders…anything but the screen was the focus of phones
  
• Phones didn’t come with huge 3.5″ touch screens
  
• Pervasive multitouch, gesture-based UI was science fiction
  
• Actually usable, multi-language, multitouch virtual keyboards on phones didn’t exist
  
• Integrated sensors like accelerometers and proximity detectors had no place in phones
  
• Phones could never compete in 3D/gaming with dedicated portable consoles
  
• iPod-class audio/video players on mobiles didn’t exist
  
• No phone had ever offered a desktop-like web browser experience
  
• Sophisticated SDKs and phones were strangers to each other

And on and on.

It’s sobering to remember that a single device by a company with zero experience in the industry and against all odds caused such a tidal wave of change.

Change didn’t come because of Nokia, Microsoft, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, RIM or any other player in the market for the past 15 years. Android and webOS weren’t there before the iPhone.

Revolution? That's putting it mildly.

Can we get this guy a metal for biggest fanboy? Haha

Wow... Ok...

I'm not denying that the iPhone is a great phone and was awesome when it and the 3G came out, but some of your arguements don't even show breakthroughs in the industry or are just wrong.

How long has Blackberry/RIM been around? Phones have been around that have played music for a long while. In fact, my old LG Fusic even supported A2DP and FM Broadcast (for using in car or whatever) back when it first came out.

• iPhone IS just a lure for AT&T contracts right now
• Revenue sharing doesn't effect the consumer so I don't care
• Where people want data, people will be offered it.
• Wifi wasn't that big of a deal because people didn't demand such high speeds on their phones
• Visual Voicemail is a convenience but far from a game-changer. Many companies still, intentionally leave it out.
• The fact that the Manufacturer owns and runs the app store as a SOLE SOURCE is a huge NEGATIVE (Thank you Saurik for Cydia). Consumer choice always benefits the consumer
• There was no lucrative market for software developers on the phone. True. But that's changing now due to the way people now, yes thanks to Apple, look at Smartphones.
• Touchscreen isn't a positive for everyone. Many people still want a device with physical buttons. Having no physical buttons makes it hard to work without seeing the device.
• Accelerometers in cell phones are neat... I'll leave it at that. Still many phones leave it out intentionally because it's not that big a deal.
• The desktop browsing experience is the greatest innovation of the iPhone in generally. This lead to the demand of data and the aforementioned points you made.
• There are SDK's for other phones and it's arguable that the iPhone one is worse because it's limited to development with Xcode and on a Mac only while others work with different IDE's and multiple platforms.

Like I said... I like my iPhone... I like hacking my iPhone... But it's a PHONE.

 

[KnightWRX]

Can we get this guy a metal for biggest fanboy? Haha

Wow... Ok...

I'm not denying that the iPhone is a great phone and was awesome when it and the 3G came out, but some of your arguements don't even show breakthroughs in the industry or are just wrong.

How long has Blackberry/RIM been around? Phones have been around that have played music for a long while. In fact, my old LG Fusic even supported A2DP and FM Broadcast (for using in car or whatever) back when it first came out.

Heck, his "Zero Experience" in the industry comment just shows how detached he is. Apple had dabbled in the cellphone industry before, to launch a Phone, a iPod without the Internet Device :

http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/07/the-motorola-rokr-e1-apple-itunes-phone/

Wow, the link even goes to Apple's page. Let's use the wayback machine to refresh our memories (and *LTD*'s) :

http://web.archive.org/web/20051001072038/http://www.apple.com/itunes/mobile/

Well would you look at that, the first ever iTunes phone, right there on Apple.com, and it's not an iPhone. Wow, it's even on Cingular, which is now AT&T's mobile division. Let's no forget the initial iPhone announcement was pre-merger and was slated for release on Cingular, so the iPhone wasn't even their first venture with AT&T!

For a company with zero experience, they sure had a lot to do with this project that was the foundation for the iPhone.

There are SDK's for other phones and it's arguable that the iPhone one is worse because it's limited to development with Xcode and on a Mac only while others work with different IDE's and multiple platforms.

I first dabbled in mobile developement in 2003, with NetBeans and the J2ME SDK. Downloaded the J2ME extensions SDK and a phone emulator from Sony Ericsson to support my phone.

In 2007, when Apple launched the iPhone, they didn't even want to release a SDK. So no, they didn't create anything new or exciting, they just followed a trend that had been building for years, and it took a few developers whining to get it too. So Apple does try to please developers by listening to them...

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I wouldn't admit to something I don't believe.

Thats because its pretty obvious by all your posts that Apple is never wrong and its always Microsoft being Evil, or AT&T forcing Apple to take the blame like George McFly. I'm sorry I don't think Steve Jobs has taken the blame for anything regardless of the money. To Steve, Steve is #1, Money is #2, Bono is #3, and we the customers don't even make the list.

Oh yeah LTD here is a non Apple Tech site:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090918-707896.html

This GV rejection is big. It is two multi billion dollar power houses fighting and this can have serious implications on the stock prices for Apple who has notoriously had rollercoaster stocks based on Steve Jobs getting pimples.

Official announcement and release for the Sony Ericsson is only supposed to be in January, though there are more and more leaks of it.

For now, we have to make do with Motorola, Samsung, LG and HTC... all very minor players compared to Apple .



They are ? Who's this everyone ? Because I see a few players on board, a distant 3rd place marketshare, and very little big name developers besides EA. On the hardware side, the real players of the cellphone industry, well Apple is alone there. Carriers ? Nada, because Apple is too tight on its control.

But on the other hand, Android is now on devices from 4 major hardware players with more to come. There's rumors of Dell and Sony Ericsson coming onboard with the platform. It will be China's official smartphone, available on all 3 major carriers there. It will soon be on 3 of the top 4 carriers in the US (Sprint just announced the Sprint HTC Hero available in October, Verizon is getting the HTC Predator). There are now Internet Tablets (from Archos) coming with Android as the OS installed, so it's going beyond cellphones.

And finally, Android is now in the same position Apple was in 2007, they just launched, and they're getting crazy media attention. We'll see in 2 years if it destroyed the iPhone's growth or not. My bet is that it'll detrone RIM and the blackberry before the iPhone does.

With Samsung and LG in on the Android I see great things happening. Samsung and LG have been making far superior phones in Asia for years. In fact in Japan phones capabilities dwarf the iPhones. The only thing the iPhone has really is the App store going for it. Thats why this rejection is a huge thing. All the iPhone features are nothing new.

 

[*LTD*]

Thats because its pretty obvious by all your posts that Apple is never wrong and its always Microsoft being Evil, or AT&T forcing Apple to take the blame like George McFly. I'm sorry I don't think Steve Jobs has taken the blame for anything regardless of the money. To Steve, Steve is #1, Money is #2, Bono is #3, and we the customers don't even make the list.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...tisfaction-up-despite-struggling-industry.ars

http://digg.com/apple/Apple_leads_2009_customer_satisfaction_survey

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/08/16/apple.no..1.on.csi/

http://theappleblog.com/2009/05/06/apple-customer-satisfaction-its-the-experience/

http://blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/04/behind-scenes-why-apples-customerbase

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2008/08/mac_customer_sa.html

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-posts-highest-score-ever-on-customer-satisfaction-index/2553

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/22467/

http://bindapple.com/apple-satisfaction-2009-report/

http://www.macnn.com/news/25971

https://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/iphone-3gs-trumps-palm-pre-in-satisfaction-survey/

http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/iPhone_Satisfaction_Off_The_Charts/

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/08/14/iphone-3gs-99-pure-satisfaction/

http://www.mactivist.com/2009/06/iphone-macs-ipod-sweep-2008-customer-satisfaction-rankings-in-japan

http://www.9to5mac.com/jobs-satisfation-rate-high

http://www.jdpower.com/Business/ratings/smartphone-ratings

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2248040/apple-keeps-top-billing

http://www.eweek.com/prestitial.php...ustomer-Satisfaction-Study-Finds-453807/&ref=

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352796,00.asp

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2006/08/5002.ars

http://www.osnews.com/story/15553

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1689554/posts

https://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-224872.html




Clearly, customers rate very low on Apple's list.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...tisfaction-up-despite-struggling-industry.ars

http://digg.com/apple/Apple_leads_2009_customer_satisfaction_survey

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/08/16/apple.no..1.on.csi/

http://theappleblog.com/2009/05/06/apple-customer-satisfaction-its-the-experience/

http://blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/04/behind-scenes-why-apples-customerbase

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2008/08/mac_customer_sa.html

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-posts-highest-score-ever-on-customer-satisfaction-index/2553

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/22467/

http://bindapple.com/apple-satisfaction-2009-report/

http://www.macnn.com/news/25971

https://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/iphone-3gs-trumps-palm-pre-in-satisfaction-survey/

http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/iPhone_Satisfaction_Off_The_Charts/

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/08/14/iphone-3gs-99-pure-satisfaction/

http://www.mactivist.com/2009/06/iphone-macs-ipod-sweep-2008-customer-satisfaction-rankings-in-japan

http://www.9to5mac.com/jobs-satisfation-rate-high

http://www.jdpower.com/Business/ratings/smartphone-ratings

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2248040/apple-keeps-top-billing

http://www.eweek.com/prestitial.php...ustomer-Satisfaction-Study-Finds-453807/&ref=

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352796,00.asp

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2006/08/5002.ars

http://www.osnews.com/story/15553

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1689554/posts

https://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-224872.html




Clearly, customers rate very low on Apple's list.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Customers rating a company and where the customers are rated as a priority is a different thing.

Also, those ratings come from surveys that employees have a quota to do. At every morning meeting customer surveys, personal shopping appointments, one to one sales, and easy pay transactions where dissected feverishly.

By the way Dell, HP, and Gateway rank right below Apple. 3 prodcuts with less face to face time to force feed surveys, all running Windows. Your customer satisfaction surveys mean nothing, and anyone whos worked retail can tell you that.

 

[ViViDboarder]

<snip>

Clearly, customers rate very low on Apple's list.

You've only proven that there are as many people that will blindly believe Apple knows what's good for them.

Apple does do well with customer service, but it's a fact that Apple doesn't listen to what people are asking for as features. They do what they want when they want it.

How long did it take Apple to implement A2DP into their laptops? All it required was a bluetooth firmware upgrade... They shipped it with Leopard. How about with the iPhone for that matter? How long did Copy and Paste take? How about video? iPhone's been capable since first gen. What about MMS? If 3rd Party, jailbroken apps could do it on the first gen, then Apple should be able to do it.

These are all big issues that people have asked for and Apple has said, "Eff you, we know what you want" and ignored it.

THIS is the point of this whole thread. Apple rejected GV because they think they know what we want more than we do. They finally acted like they were going to let users get anything they wanted by opening an app store but stuff like this just proves their mentality is not changing.