Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
58,110
21,196


Google today lambasted European Union regulators for ignoring Apple and the rivalry between Apple and Android in the antitrust accusations that have been levied against Google, reports Reuters.

play-store-google.jpeg

Apple was brought up as part of Google's attempt to get a massive 4.34 billion euro ($5.1 billion) fine annulled. The European Commission first levied the fine against Google in 2018 because Google pre-installed its own services (Google Search and the Chrome browser) on Android to ensure its dominance in internet search.

According to Google, the European Commission has ignored the dynamic between Apple and Google and has downplayed the impact that Apple has on the mobile device market.
"The Commission shut its eyes to the real competitive dynamic in this industry, that between Apple and Android," Google's lawyer Meredith Pickford told the court.

"By defining markets too narrowly and downplaying the potent constraint imposed by the highly powerful Apple, the Commission has mistakenly found Google to be dominant in mobile operating systems and app stores, when it was in fact a vigorous market disrupter," he said.
Google is actually an "exceptional success story of the power of competition in action," Google's lawyers said.

The European Commission argued that "bringing Apple into the picture doesn't change things very much" because Apple and Google pursue different models and because Apple has a smaller market share. Android is installed on approximately 80 percent of the smartphones in the world.

Google is continuing to fight the fine, and a verdict on whether the fine will need to be paid is expected in 2022.

The European Union is planning on implementing sweeping legal measures that would require tech companies to share data with competitors and give no preference to their own apps and services, legislation that would impact both Apple and Google.

It would require Apple to allow iPhone and iPad users to download apps from third-party App Stores or from the internet, and Apple has been fighting against it. Apple CEO Tim Cook said earlier this year that the upcoming rules could "destroy the security" of the iPhone.

Article Link: Google Criticizes EU Regulators for Ignoring Apple in Bid to Get $5.1 Billion Antitrust Fine Annulled
 

Realityck

macrumors 603
Nov 9, 2015
5,017
7,013
Silicon Valley, CA
By defining markets too narrowly and downplaying the potent constraint imposed by the highly powerful Apple, the Commission has mistakenly found Google to be dominant in mobile operating systems and app stores, when it was in fact a vigorous market disrupter," he said.
They say "Android’s market share will reach 87% in 2022, forecasts suggests", so how can Apple be such a vigorous market disrupter? It's all a big misunderstanding you know. ?
 
Last edited:

FNi

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2011
54
17
Google would like everyone to think of Apple as a close rival when it suits them (especially given iOS' larger revenue per user), but the fact is here in the Europe Android sits at around 70% market share. Why should the EU consider Apple at all in a case about Google?
 

Aichon

macrumors member
Jun 10, 2015
33
82
If this is the case I'm thinking of, Apple really has nothing to do with it since this isn't about competition between mobile phone platforms in the least. This is about competition between cloud services and how Google illegally stifled competition in that space.

Google was found guilty of acting anticompetitively by illegally bundling its cloud services with the Google Play Store, telling Android handset manufacturers that if they wanted to use the wildly successful Google Play Store (i.e. pretty much the only game in town) they had no choice but to also use Google's other services as well. But there's loads of precedent saying you can't do that in the EU because it means using your advantage in one market—app stores—to leverage an unfair advantage in an unrelated market—cloud services. None of that changes if you factor Apple or iOS into the equation, so this appears to be an attempt at dragging Apple into this, rather than an attempt at getting themselves off the hook.

And to be clear, this sort of bundling has been illegal in the EU for decades. See: Microsoft being told to unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows in the EU in the early 2000s.
 

Kierkegaarden

macrumors 65816
Dec 13, 2018
1,417
2,214
USA
Seems like a weak argument to bring up Apple, but I don’t know why Google is being fined here.

Maybe they could be forced to allow an easy way to change the search engine, but something has to be the default. If users were asked to choose an engine, what name would be at the top of the list? Because the name at the top would probably be chosen. But regardless of where Google is on the list, the vast majority will choose Google. Same thing with the browser.

So what is the solution according to the EU? I do not understand the idiocy of these policies that come out of the EU. It seems like it’s coming more from jealousy than any legitimate desire to protect consumers. The EU is jealous that tech is primarily dominated by US companies, bottom line.
 

velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
7,025
4,227
Georgia
My understanding is outside the Pixel perhaps Android One. Google doesn’t include their software with Android. That’s up to the device manufacturers to include it in their ROMs. They pay for the privilege. That they do so because that’s what most phone buyers expect to find on their phone.

That’s why you’ll often find the suite of Google apps. Along with the crap alternatives the manufacturers make.
 

ksec

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2015
2,071
2,335
Seems like a weak argument to bring up Apple, but I don’t know why Google is being fined here.

Maybe they could be forced to allow an easy way to change the search engine, but something has to be the default. If users were asked to choose an engine, what name would be at the top of the list? Because the name at the top would probably be chosen. But regardless of where Google is on the list, the vast majority will choose Google. Same thing with the browser.

So what is the solution according to the EU? I do not understand the idiocy of these policies that come out of the EU. It seems like it’s coming more from jealousy than any legitimate desire to protect consumers. The EU is jealous that tech is primarily dominated by US companies, bottom line.

My understanding is outside the Pixel perhaps Android One. Google doesn’t include their software with Android. That’s up to the device manufacturers to include it in their ROMs. They pay for the privilege. That they do so because that’s what most phone buyers expect to find on their phone.

That’s why you’ll often find the suite of Google apps. Along with the crap alternatives the manufacturers make.

Exactly. I have been trying to understand what EU is suggesting here. And no one seems to have a decent explanation.

Might have to wait for Benedict Evans to read through all the pages of EU report to come up with some analysis.
 

Mousse

macrumors 68030
Apr 7, 2008
2,805
5,451
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
So the EU wants a phone with just the most basic OS installed and nothing else? Bring back the days of MS-DOS / CP/M, y'all.? If we want phone, browser, messaging and so on. Everything we want we would have to download from the Appstore/Playstore? I would be among the 1% who would like this.

Granted the result won't be as elegant or as polished as what Apple and Google. Gestalt, greater than the sums of its parts. I would be one of the few who would like a Frankenstein phone of mismatched apps, instead of a unified look and polish offering we have now.?
 
  • Like
Reactions: sudo-sandwich

laptech

macrumors 68000
Apr 26, 2013
1,743
2,264
Earth
.......

Google was found guilty of acting anticompetitively by illegally bundling its cloud services with the Google Play Store, telling Android handset manufacturers that if they wanted to use the wildly successful Google Play Store (i.e. pretty much the only game in town) they had no choice but to also use Google's other services as well. But there's loads of precedent saying you can't do that in the EU because it means using your advantage in one market—app stores—to leverage an unfair advantage in an unrelated market—cloud services. None of that changes if you factor Apple or iOS into the equation, so this appears to be an attempt at dragging Apple into this, rather than an attempt at getting themselves off the hook.

........
Interesting choice of words when you consider the fact that Apple tells developers that if they want to use in-app purchases in their app they have no choice but to use Apple's pay system. So google is told they are being anticompetitive but in the same vein, Apple are told what they are doing is ok.
 
Seems like a weak argument to bring up Apple, but I don’t know why Google is being fined here.

Maybe they could be forced to allow an easy way to change the search engine, but something has to be the default. If users were asked to choose an engine, what name would be at the top of the list? Because the name at the top would probably be chosen. But regardless of where Google is on the list, the vast majority will choose Google. Same thing with the browser.

So what is the solution according to the EU? I do not understand the idiocy of these policies that come out of the EU. It seems like it’s coming more from jealousy than any legitimate desire to protect consumers. The EU is jealous that tech is primarily dominated by US companies, bottom line.

Exactly. I have been trying to understand what EU is suggesting here. And no one seems to have a decent explanation.

Might have to wait for Benedict Evans to read through all the pages of EU report to come up with some analysis.

ksec, as Aichon points out, some of Google's behavior has been illegal for over a decade...MFG bundling, etc... The idea is that Google is using to leverage their size and dominance to force others into action is on the table for sure.

I believe though that it is sort of a catch 22 scenario and also an inevitable one. When you are small you use some tactics to try and get market share. They are legal actions and no one sees them as harmful. However, once you get to a certain size those actions can now be throttling competition.

Likely a hard thing to draw a clear line in the sand on. As Kierkegaarden points out, something has to be default. However, Google having the dominance to always have it be them is problematic as well.

Why bring Apple into it though? Strange. I think that Google is trying to blend different points into one argument to make it more vague and confusing to maybe try and delay/wriggle out of fines/rulings.
 

jonnysods

macrumors 604
Sep 20, 2006
7,655
5,228
There & Back Again
Does the EU understand why Google bothered to make their own mobile OS and browser? Do they know how they make money? Of course they are the default search engine and their apps are pre-installed. They are data miners!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SFjohn and KeithBN
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.