Google Executive Wants to Help Apple Make Texts Between Android and iPhone Users More Secure

[BugeyeSTI]

Prove it with actual data....
You just state your opinion as fact with nothing to back it up.
My data shows WhatsApp is being used by more people than any other messaging application in the world. If you disagree...then show me data to back up

I think what SpringKid is saying is that if you add up users of all the other messaging apps and compare that number to the number of users of WhatsApp more people don't use WhatsApp than the ones that do.. WhatsApp is obviously the most popular messaging app when comparing app to app. I could be wrong as it's hard to comment on someone else's intent..

 

[jamezr]

I think what SpringKid is saying is that if you add up users of all the other messaging apps and compare that number to the number of users of WhatsApp more people don't use WhatsApp than the ones that do.. WhatsApp is obviously the most popular messaging app when comparing app to app.

But that wasn't the topic. It was the most used and most popular messaging application. That was the posts that was quoted and started the discussion between both of us.

 

[bollman]

I'm Swedish as well and in the social groups I am in we use iMessage exclusively and are happy with that. But FB Messenger is certainly the more popular overall,

Well, I had to scroll back in my iMessages. One, say one, "group chat" with iMessages in 1,5 years. And that conversation was 3 messages long.
I loathe FB and since I have no FB-account, I'm happy I made an FB-Messenger account while they didn't require a FaceBook account, otherwise I would've been a social outcast.

 

[EatinPonies]

How about they keep the iMessage secure protocol and leave them blue, but turn these green bubbles into RCS-encrypted. Then give us a gray one for messages that had to be sent using neither...

Of course, then there's the admission that sending a text message wouldn't let you know before it was sent that it couldn't get any encryption... That's probably a problem that needs to be solved.

 

[Runequester]

More interoperability seems like a good thing.

 

[MathersMahmood]

I don't think apple would ever do this. iMessage is one of the main things that keeps people hooked on iPhone.

I used to love it but Telegram is so much more superior.

 

[SpringKid]

But that wasn't the topic. It was the most used and most popular messaging application. That was the posts that was quoted and started the discussion between both of us.

Sorry, but no, that was not the discussion here. The discussion started with the claim that "every phone in Europe has WhatsApp", where even though it's popular, it's more likely it's not because in total more people are using other chat apps. That was the start of the discussion, not your posts.

 

[EddieKeyton1]

I still use text > Facebook messenger for my friends and family with an iPhone. My friends with android, I use Facebook messenger. I like seeing when my messages are delivered and read. It would be nice to use the messaging app on my device with everyone so I can move away from Facebook messenger. I hope the day comes where apple and google play nicely together. So I can see when my android friends are typing and have read my texts. Of course I know they can turn off those features.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

It's cute that Google is asking to keep a form of messaging "secure"

Of course, it is likely not secure from Google. they don't like that sort of thing

 

[jamezr]

Sorry, but no, that was not the discussion here. The discussion started with the claim that "every phone in Europe has WhatsApp", where even though it's popular, it's more likely it's not because in total more people are using other chat apps. That was the start of the discussion, not your posts.

wrong......see below. That was not what the discussion was at all.
No one said every phone in Europe has WhatsApp.
It is "available" because iMessage is not available on Android phones. That is why WhatsApp is the most popular and most widely used messaging app in the world it is available on more phones.

Then you asked for statistics and statistics were provided for you. You just didn't like what the stats showed you.
WhatsApp is used more than anyother messaging application which lends to say it is on more phones......

 

[mrothroc]

I highly recommend reading this piece on Ars Technica, especially the section titled "RCS is bad, and anyone who likes it should feel bad", to give you an idea of why Google is the last company anyone should take advice from when it comes to messaging.

A decade and a half of instability: The history of Google messaging apps

This is an excellent article, and this paragraph is really on point:

RCS also has all the same problems as SMS and Google Allo when it comes to how you should architect a messaging service. RCS will use your carrier-owned phone number as your identity online, instead of an Internet-based account system. Changing Internet identity from a free email account to a paid number owned by a carrier is a terrible and, I would argue, immoral idea. Tying online identity to the ability to continuously pay a phone bill is straight-up discriminatory toward people of lower income. There should not be a risk of losing your online identity if you stop paying your bill for a month or change phone carriers. There's no upside to phone number identity at all, yet Google keeps doing it.

There is no upside to tying your online identity to your carrier-controlled phone number.

 

[I7guy]

Perhaps Apple could develop RCS support using some of the $11 Billion Google pays privacy-minded Apple every year to look the other way and pretend Google isn't monetizing Apple users' privacy.

I agree. However google would be monetizing apple users privacy without the $11B, so it’s not the 11B that’s the issue, it’s google. But more security is always better.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Americans seem to use "blue chat bubbles" as some sort of class differentiator and a bragging right, so Apple will hold onto that selling point for the foreseeable future.

In Europe, WhatsApp is standard. It's not ideal (Facebook owned), but at least its available on every phone.

Not in Scandinavia.

 

[Khalmoon]

Hey Google, what's going on? Making a step forward?
Sadly Apple will act stubborn here...

Monopoly first! ©2021 Apple

Not exactly, what you mean to say is:

Apple: Makes an encrypted chat service for its customers
Google: Fails at several different chat platforms.
Google: Hey, we suck as a competitor can you guys play nice now?

Seriously?

 

[BootsWalking]

I agree. However google would be monetizing apple users privacy without the $11B, so it’s not the 11B that’s the issue, it’s google. But more security is always better.

There are search alternatives Apple could use that don't monetize their users' privacy, in addition to the option of providing search themselves if they wanted.

 

[jdsingle]

I'm honestly baffled at a lot of these comments. Been using an iOS since iPhone 5s here in good ol' America. I need to reliably be able to send a text message to personal contacts and businesses. The default messenger in iOS works just fine for me across Android and iOS. I love when people want secure communications and then the first alternative they throw up is a Google or Facebook owned product.

 

[I7guy]

There are search alternatives Apple could use that don't monetize their users' privacy, in addition to the option of providing search themselves if they wanted.

As long as apple doesn't prevent google search, the monetization is irrelevant to the user privacy issue. Google is such a heavy hitter that imo, most people would use it anyway. Those who want to use an alternative such as duckduckago know about it. The issue is a red-herring. Apple probably wouldn't want to develop a search engine, but I can only speculate.

 

[LeadingHeat]

Alluding to the RCS protocol, Lockheimer goes on to state there is a "Really Clear Solution" and…

Hahaha I see what you did there. Clever.

 

[CarlJ]

Just extended the list...

✅ Third-party Payment
🔲 Third-party AppStore
🔲 Sideloading
🔲 OpenNFC
🔲 Different Browser Engines
🔲 Enforce Messages RCS communication

Just a matter of time till the other check boxes become ✅, too.
Laws to the rescue...

If you want to use Android, just go use Android! It already offers all the things you want. That's the easy, simple, direct, solution. Stop trying to make iOS into Android!

 

[coolfactor]

I'm only just hearing of RSC, and i don't know anything about it except that i definitely want it on my next phone. SMS is super old. An upgrade sounds great.

RCS is like iMessage-for-everyone. Rich-text messaging supported at the mobile layer, not just over HTTP (aka. the internet) like iMessage.

Yes, it's time for Apple to cave on this one. Put consumer interests first.

 

[justperry]

More people are using other services, though. 🙂 You should look at that chart as a pie chart in your mind.

Lots of people use multiple services, so your statement isn't accurate.

 

[d686546s]

Sorry, but no, that was not the discussion here. The discussion started with the claim that "every phone in Europe has WhatsApp", where even though it's popular, it's more likely it's not because in total more people are using other chat apps. That was the start of the discussion, not your posts.

You've built yourself a nice straw man there that you keep knocking down post after post.

The original claim was that WhatsApp was the "standard" in Europe and that it was "available" on every phone. You can of course strictly insist on interpreting these literally and you'd probably be right in saying these aren't true -- my analogue office phone doesn't have WhatsApp, for starters -- but let's apply some common sense.

WhatsApp is the most widely used messaging platform, so say the statistics, so says my own personal experience in at least three European countries and so says most of the experience shared by European users here. I use Signal a lot, but I can literally reach every single one of my friends and family on WhatsApp, even if I avoid using it at all cost. No other messaging platform other than SMS comes close. I'd call WhatsApp a standard by any meaningful definition of the word I'd use in a casual internet chat.

As to the second claim, WhatsApp is available for probably 99% of smartphones, and quite a few dumb phones, currently in use in Europe. It's probably installed on a lot of them as well, but that wasn't the claim. Again, within the non-absolute yardstick I'd employ in a casual internet conversation, this statement is most certainly true.

You said this didn't match your experience in Sweden (?). Fair enough, maybe your social circles or even Sweden as a whole is different. It happens.

 

[1129846]

Google should clean its own house first. Considering majority of Android phones don't even support it on their default SMS app, it's hypocritical to point out at Apple. Google can do it if they wanted to, by making it a requirement for Android certification. But they don't.

Google can not force a lot of manufactures to anything which is sad. Plus they can not add it for Android certifications based on other rules. They are trying but the honest fact is Apple welds a much bigger stick here to force changes. Getting Apple on board means that stick to force the other Android manufactures to get one board becomes a lot easier.
Apple is honestly the key here. Plus for Apple they can play it on security which lets face it SMS is crap in security.

 

[1129846]

There’s Signal and Telegram.

Problem with both is it requires both sids to use one of those apps. The one thing that makes both RCS and iMessage great is it just works with out getting another app and can be tied to the phone with existing systems.

Trying to say get another app is just meaning more crap on the phone. At this point people tend to have SMS/iMessage, Facebook Messager, WhatsApp, plus things like slack and MS Teams for work.
I rather not have to add more messaging systems. I know iMessage and SMS will work and i know people tend to have a way for those to work. The key system is replacing SMS.

 

[BootsWalking]

As long as apple doesn't prevent google search, the monetization is irrelevant to the user privacy issue. Google is such a heavy hitter that imo, most people would use it anyway. Those who want to use an alternative such as duckduckago know about it. The issue is a red-herring. Apple probably wouldn't want to develop a search engine, but I can only speculate.

The majority of iOS users would use whatever search results Safari provides, irrespective of who provides it. They wouldn't seek out to find and change the setting for the default search provider - only the more tech-oriented users would do that. Google knows this as well, which is why they pay Apple to make them the default search engine, otherwise they would save themselves $11B/year and rely on users changing the setting themselves.