Google Executive Wants to Help Apple Make Texts Between Android and iPhone Users More Secure

[Jetscreamer]

This will be a moot point if the big three shut down SMS and make RCS the standard service for all. If Apple does not come aboard and adopt RCS, then Apple and Android users won’t be able to communicate with each other. If that happens, the Feds will step in and take care of it.

 

[Jetscreamer]

SMS is from the 90’s, is finally time to put it to rest, like Blockbuster Video, dial-up modems.

 

[I7guy]

The majority of iOS users would use whatever search results Safari provides, irrespective of who provides it.

Do you have a citation for this speculation? Don't you think users know there are differences in the search engines and what they provide?

They wouldn't seek out to find and change the setting for the default search provider - only the more tech-oriented users would do that.

Citing a speculation as if it were a fact? Or alternatively users can enter in google.com in safari. Do most users know how to do this?

Google knows this as well, which is why they pay Apple to make them the default search engine, otherwise they would save themselves $11B/year and rely on users changing the setting themselves.

Google,imo, is paying Apple in the hopes that most users will just use them. That is a far cry from saying that users don't know the difference or don't know how to type an address in the address bar.

 

[1129846]

Do you have a citation for this speculation? Don't you think users know there are differences in the search engines and what they provide?

Citing a speculation as if it were a fact? Or alternatively users can enter in google.com in safari. Do most users know how to do this?

Google,imo, is paying Apple in the hopes that most users will just use them. That is a far cry from saying that users don't know the difference or don't know how to type an address in the address bar.

dude come on. It is very clear you have never done design or anything like that.
The key is making sure your defaults are right as most people flat out do not change things off of defaults. They just assume it works. In this case most people do not change the default search engine. Hell I would be willing to argue most people don't even know how......

 

[d686546s]

This is an excellent article, and this paragraph is really on point:

There is no upside to tying your online identity to your carrier-controlled phone number.

There is: ease of finding other people. Take WhatsApp, Signal and (I believe!) Telegram. You install the app, sign up and boom, all your friends and family who also happen to use the app are there. Exchanging phone numbers is also still one of the easiest things to do and probably one of the things you do early on when meeting people.

There's of course downsides, but phone numbers are probably one of the most workable universal identifiers people have of each other. Email addresses may be second, but judging from my own address book they are a distant second.

Moving away from phone numbers probably drives even more fragmentation and lock in to certain services.

 

[dk001]

I'm only just hearing of RSC, and i don't know anything about it except that i definitely want it on my next phone. SMS is super old. An upgrade sounds great.

It would be nice to see. RCS has been working well for me except for Apple.

 

[I7guy]

dude come on. It is very clear you have never done design or anything like that.
The key is making sure your defaults are right as most people flat out do not change things off of defaults. They just assume it works. In this case most people do not change the default search engine. Hell I would be willing to argue most people don't even know how......

Missed the point. It's not about my background, it's about do people understand there is a difference with search engines?

 

[GrumpyCoder]

It's cute that Google is asking to keep a form of messaging "secure"

Of course, it is likely not secure from Google. they don't like that sort of thing

Enlighten us... how secure is E2EE?

 

[BootsWalking]

Do you have a citation for this speculation? Don't you think users know there are differences in the search engines and what they provide?

Citing a speculation as if it were a fact? Or alternatively users can enter in google.com in safari. Do most users know how to do this?

Google,imo, is paying Apple in the hopes that most users will just use them. That is a far cry from saying that users don't know the difference or don't know how to type an address in the address bar.

My citation is the fact google pays Apple $11B/year. They wouldn't do so if any of the statements you wrote were true, ie users know or care enough about the differences in search engines to seek Google out if Apple made something other than Google the default. "Just hoping" is a poor justification for handing out $11B/year to Apple - Google knows exactly what they're doing and money speaks louder than speculation.

 

[liberte1776]

RCS is an iMessage competitor, but it also meant to sunset SMS/MMS as a standard...

 

[I7guy]

My citation is the fact google pays Apple $11B/year.

That's proof of google pays apple money and that's where it stops.

They wouldn't do so if any of the statements you wrote were true, ie users know or care enough about the differences in search engines to seek Google out if Apple made something other than Google the default. "Just hoping" is a poor justification for handing out $11B/year to Apple - Google knows exactly what they're doing and money speaks louder than speculation.

It doesn't take away that there are no metrics to confirm you supposition, and until your hypothetical statement can be proved, it will remain at that.

 

[BootsWalking]

That's proof of google pays apple money and that's where it stops.

It doesn't take away that there are no metrics to confirm you supposition, and until your hypothetical statement can be proved, it will remain at that.

Why else would Google pay Apple $11B/year to make it the default search engine if what I wrote wasn't true, if they could instead rely on users seeking Google out and changing the default search engine on their own? We both have made suppositions - the only difference is mine is supported by the fact Google is paying Apple $11B/year whereas yours is backed only by your challenge to my supposition.

 

[polyphenol]

I don't get the certainty so many posters have about how people message.

As far as I am concerned, I use only Apple's messaging, and if that uses SMS, fine. No idea whatsoever what the rest of the town, county, country uses. Only that what I uses suffices for my purposes.

Anyone who says everyone in the UK uses Whatsapp/facebpook Messenger, etc. is, from where I sit, wrong. Indeed, at this moment, sounds like few are using Messenger.

 

[tennisproha]

Apple really pisses me off. iMessage was poised to be the defacto messaging service if they’d opened it up to cross-platforms. Phil Schiller really should’ve been fired for trying to keep it more “premium”. That smug bastard.

 

[M3gatron]

Some S. Korean carriers actually shuttered RCS years ago, letting Kakaotalk to be the "standard" for messaging.
And we still have not counted how the Chinese OEMs (Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Realme, etc) don't have support for RCS on their default SMS app. I'm sure there are more WeChat users than people using RCS.

If Google wanted RCS to be widely accepted, they should require it for Android certification. At least that way, it's already on people's phones. Talking to Apple is pointless when majority of Android handsets don't even have it on.

So you are not aware that most Chinese phones available on global markets (especially Europe) have Google's Phone, Messages and Contact apps as the defaults?
There's no problem here at all.

 

[JGIGS]

Use Signal

None of my friends and family use it nor do they want to install. Now what?

 

[M3gatron]

Google should clean its own house first. Considering majority of Android phones don't even support it on their default SMS app, it's hypocritical to point out at Apple. Google can do it if they wanted to, by making it a requirement for Android certification. But they don't.

Most Android phones do support RCS as a large portion of them come directly with Google's Messages app as the default and the rest, as in Samsung smartphones, supports RCS as well.

 

[M3gatron]

Err no, Everyone is a holdout. Only Google and recently Samsung that provide RCS support by preinstalling Google Messages. The Chinese OEMs don’t, and they’re the bulk of Android phones out there around the world. And majority of carriers around the world don’t explicitly support it either.

Most Chinese smartphones sold outside of Chinese have Google's Messages app as the default. Do a little research before insisting with this misinformation.

 

[dk001]

What I think @cliveren13 is referring to is, if you move from using an iPhone to using an Android device then you have problems.

iMessage works by maintaining a list of known devices in the background. If your friend has sent you an iMessage in the past their device will default to that in the future. If you move to Android then your mobile can no longer receive iMessage but their device may try to reach you that way. You have to ‘de-list‘ with iMessage to fix that.

The problem is worst when you have a device other than your mobile which can still receive iMessage (e.g. an iPad). In this scenario iMessage believes it has successfully delivered the messages but the recipient’s mobile can’t receive it of course.

Problems from the reverse side ... ran into a problem with RCS and iOS.

iPhone 12 ProMax and swapped to an Android to test for a week or two - swapped sims.
RCS worked well and I had no issue with Messages. Where I ran into problems was when I moved back to the iPhone.
Other Android devices that communicated with me while on Android with RCS continued to try to message me with RCS. The iPhone received none of these. I was blind to these messages. When I powered up my test Android device (no SIM), all of the RCS messages showed up on this device. I had to contact the message senders and have them swap back to SMS/MMS.

Having iOS/iPadOS able to handle RCS would be a benefit.

 

[dk001]

I don’t know, apple could implement this and keep android users in the green bubble. Great way to see that your talking to an android user as androids mascot is green

on androids side blue would represent Apple users.

On Android side, default, I have light blue for SMS and dark blue for RCS.

 

[dk001]

I don't recall Apple ever publicly stating they refused to support RCS. Has anyone seen them say that, or is Google just stirring up the waters trying to put itself in the headlines taking pot shots at Apple?

With VERY few exceptions, Apple doesn't talk about upcoming products under development. If they're working on RCS it will be announced at a keynote or with the release of the OSes.
Remember, Apple can't just roll this out in iOS, it has to be iOS, iPadOS, HomePod, macOS, watchOS...
And it has to interoperate with all the other services. Doing this may not seem trivial but doing it "right" I'm sure is.

So... I don't know that Apple is or isn't planning RCS but it seems like a whole lot of other people know Apple isn't. Did I miss something?

Google SVP Hiroshi Lockheimer decided to tease Apple. Lockheimer's tweet is obviously a tongue-in-cheek one: Apple wouldn't need any help adopting RCS; it's simply that the company doesn't want to do it.
From 9to5Mac

It surprises me that Apple is sticking to SMS. That is the one piece of the messaging platform Apple and it's supposed privacy stance leaves wide open.

 

[M3gatron]

Google can not force a lot of manufactures to anything which is sad. Plus they can not add it for Android certifications based on other rules. They are trying but the honest fact is Apple welds a much bigger stick here to force changes. Getting Apple on board means that stick to force the other Android manufactures to get one board becomes a lot easier.
Apple is honestly the key here. Plus for Apple they can play it on security which lets face it SMS is crap in security.

That's not true at all. Google has a lot of influence over Android OEMs, like for example convincing them to use their default messages, dailer and contacts apps.

MIUI Messaging app prompting users to get Google Messages app

Xiaomi users on the global and EU ROMs are getting now getting a prompt in the MIUI Messaging app to upgrade to Messages by Google.

piunikaweb.com

 

[GrumpyCoder]

it's simply that the company doesn't want to do it.

Of course they don’t want to. Apple wants one thing, a fully locked down ecosystem in their control, a monopoly. Playing nice with others is the opposite.

 

[dk001]

There’s Signal and Telegram.

If I could make either of those the default on my iPhone. But I can't.

 

[dk001]

RCS is an iMessage competitor, but it also meant to sunset SMS/MMS as a standard...

How is it a competitor?
The two services at this time are not compatible. I can't use RCS on iOS nor can I use iMessage on Android.