Google I/O 2016: Assistant, Home, Allo, Duo, Android N, and More

[69Mustang]

It's not the mere data collection, but implicit data collection with no recourse to the user. If the user chooses to buy out the information collected from Google so that Google cannot use it for its business, that's not an option, how could one call that transparent?

It's not just Google holding on to the information, its the ad business model, sharing data with third parties without explicit user consent and option to repossess the information. How is Google going to police the data that was shared to third parties, it simply can't? Now the genie is out of the bottle. This is when it get's a little scary.

What I would like to know in the comparison quoted above, how is Google's ad business model analogous to Apple's? Google's only horse in the race is ad business, does Apple even a horse in the ad business race?

Google is a one trick pony at the moment, ad business pony. It had its hands in many other promising things but the bread and butter is ad business.

You have some errant info in your quote. Google doesn't share data with 3rd party vendors - caveat being to complete financial transactions or subscription services - same process with Apple. The type of sharing you're implying doesn't happen. If for no other reason, that information is the currency that runs Google's machine. If they share it, the 3rd party no longer needs Google.

Opting out of targeted advertising. Apologies, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Opt out doesn't mean you don't receive ads, they just won't be targeted based on your info. Again, same with Apple. I think it's scary to some because people are basing their thoughts on misinformation. Quotes like yours are evidence of that.

Google/Apple comparison? Easy. First, I didn't compare business models. That's the common mistake made in these forums. I compared the advertising component of each companies business.

Both companies have the revenue streams: Hardware, software, services, and advertising. Google's primary revenue comes from their advertising component. Apple's primary revenue component is hardware. Where they get their primary revenue doesn't negate the fact that the totality of their respective revenues come from the same categories. Just because Apple gets more from hardware doesn't nullify Apple selling advertising, software, or services. Just because Google gets more from advertising doesn't nullify Google selling hardware, software, or services.

edit: Advertising revenue is a part of services as far as I know, but I broke it out to make the point clearer.

 

[MasterRyu2011]

Obligatory "when did this become AndroidRumors?" comment

The obligatory "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
[doublepost=1463672754][/doublepost]I gotta say, great writeup by the Macrumors team. Guess I'll just stick to Macrumors for both my iOS and Android news!

 

[Scarpad]

I have an Echo and a Tap and I like the Amazon services they are tied to, not an android user so this would'nt have much value to me

 

[ackmondual]

One must keep in mind that these "free" services being given away by Google are not really free. Every microsecond that people spend using at least one Google service is an opportunity for them to collect more data. Combined with their research and advances into machine learning, which could act on that very data, and the future is looking to be a very interesting (and possibly scary) place. Apple's more conservative approach to their platforms and data handling may indeed win out in the long run. We'll have to see.

They're already paid if you have a gmail and you can't unring that bell. Take advantage.

I'm sure we have a decent number of folks here who don't bother with Facebook, but for the rest who are on Facebook, it's already too late for them as well. Proceed with caution as always.

 

[jayisblessed]

This is real innovation!
Google leaving Apple in the dust!
Tim Cook is too busy pandering to communist China to actually innovate!
Cook is is busy in India trying to save the company instead of innovating like Google!
Apple spent too much time on watch bands to innovate!
Cook is going to be fired!
Steve Jobs would have never let this happen!
Apple still offers 16GB!
Switching to Android and Google services!
Apple is falling behind!
Apple is doomed!
Apple is too busy wasting time on an electric car to innovate!

What you are saying is bullsh*t, full of nonsense. Well, I guess some losers ( not targeting you in particular) just cannot stop hating anything beautiful and nice. Well, suit yourself.

 

[kdarling]

This is real innovation!
Google leaving Apple in the dust!
Tim Cook is too busy pandering to communist China to actually innovate!
Cook is is busy in India trying to save the company instead of innovating like Google!
Apple spent too much time on watch bands to innovate!
Cook is going to be fired!
Steve Jobs would have never let this happen!
Apple still offers 16GB!
Switching to Android and Google services!
Apple is falling behind!
Apple is doomed!
Apple is too busy wasting time on an electric car to innovate!

There should be a way to mark those who clearly did not recognize your post as sarcasm, as "People Without Humor"

The way in which Google creeps into every part of your life really creeps me out.

At least Google is pretty device agnostic. Apple creeps me out the way that they try to lock people into only buying their own products.

It's not just Google holding on to the information, its the ad business model, sharing data with third parties without explicit user consent and option to repossess the information. How is Google going to police the data that was shared to third parties, it simply can't? Now the genie is out of the bottle. This is when it get's a little scary.

Good news! It's not that scary, because that's not how it works.

Same as with Apple iAds, advertisers simply buy the option for their ads to be displayed to a certain demographic. Unless you click on an ad and fill out a form, they don't know to whom those ads are shown.

You see, money is made by keeping personal data SECRET. That's what makes it valuable. E.g. when Apple tried to get companies to use iAds, Apple listed all the personal stuff they had gathered on their customers, mostly from iTunes account and purchase information, as ways they could target ads. However, no way was Apple going to sell that info. Ditto for Google. They only sell anonymous targeted ad display slots.

 

[vinnie603]

Amazon: Alexa
Google: Home
Apple: ..........

Apple: Ispy

 

[polbit]

Amazon Echo has been a great success for Amazon, and for a good reason - it's a fantastic device, ideally suited for a smart home. My entire family, including my kids, uses it constantly for anything from music to weather to facts to shopping to lights to HVAC, etc. etc. No need to pick anything up, press anything. The only thing that's really missing is the conversation continuity. If Google can make it happen, AND support other services in similar ways to Echo, the sky is the limit.

Siri is an absolute joke right now, Apple really needs to step it up.

 

[KALLT]

At least Google is pretty device agnostic. Apple creeps me out the way that they try to lock people into only buying their own products.

iOS offers the most choice in terms of third-party services though, illustrated by the presence of Google’s apps. Avoiding Apple’s services on their devices can be done. Choosing Google’s services over Apple’s services does not broaden your horizon all that much. You pretty much just get to choose between Android and iOS, rather than just iOS. Windows Phone, BlackBerry and all minor players have never seen a Google app and can only use Google’s web services to a limited extent. Google’s web services rely heavily on web technologies which they provide themselves through Google Chrome. Once you use another browser, many features won’t work.

If anyone is device agnostic, then nowadays that would be Microsoft.

 

[igorsky]

Apple creeps me out the way that they try to lock people into only buying their own products.

It creeps me out when people willingly buy into Apple's ecosystem, and then act as though they were forced into it.

 

[LordVic]

You see, money is made by keeping personal data SECRET. That's what makes it valuable. E.g. when Apple tried to get companies to use iAds, Apple listed all the personal stuff they had gathered on their customers, mostly from iTunes account and purchase information, as ways they could target ads. However, no way was Apple going to sell that info. Ditto for Google. They only sell anonymous targeted ad display slots.

I want to add that not only is it in Google's best interest from a monetary perspective to keep personal data private and not shared, but outside of the USA, most western countries have extremely rigid privacy laws that outright prohibit and ban the sale of personal data.

Canada for example has taken companies like Google and Facebook to task ensuring they do not violate our Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA: https://www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/leg_c_p_e.asp). They have gone as far as threatening banning Facebook. Punishments for violation of this act can range from fines, all the way up to criminal charges against the executives of the company. And Canada / PIPEDA publishes all decisions and investigations into the companies so we are aware of their behaviours.

The very notion that Google is taking your personal information and selling it is absolutely without any base.

Now, if you don't want them to have your data for your own reasons: Android allows you to opt out of tracking. Offers ways of resetting your tracking information if you want (I did it once accidentally and lost all the really good functionality it offers). And just like google, Everyone is doing it. Apple is not exempt.

 

[kdarling]

It creeps me out when people willingly buy into Apple's ecosystem, and then act as though they were forced into it.

It's not about willingly buying in, it's about being able to willingly get out

Look at all the teen kids who feel locked in because Facetime / iMessage only works on iPhones.

As we know from trial documents, Apple knows that it's not just about attracting, it's about retaining users. Apple knows they can't always compete on features and price. Repeat customers are their bread and butter, and they have to prevent their users from being able to easily move elsewhere.

And yeah, newcomers also often are not aware of the hidden costs they will face of having to use only proprietary (and expensive) Apple ordained cables and adapters.

 

[bpeeps]

To be fair, some of those complaints are pretty reasonable.
[doublepost=1463611452][/doublepost]

Siri: I'm not able to connect to the internet right now. Please try again later.

I don't disagree. But those complaints should be posted in articles about the iPhone or battery life. Not in every single unrelated MacRumors post. There's a place and a time.

 

[TechZeke]

That wasn't difficult to finally admit the truth, was it? iOS version of Metrostink isn't in the clear either since its rating is even lower at 2.5 stars vs 3 stars. Too bad Apple App Store limits reviews to three otherwise I'd like to see what iOS users have to say about Metrostink.

I lied? Now you're just drawing for straws. Pretty much proved the point of my last post perfectly.

Everything about app and turnstiles was brought up at last the board meeting. If you think it I was lying, I'll personally contact the CEO Art Leahy and get you into the next board meeting. It also has nothing to do with fanboy. I completely disagree with the CEO about the BNSF loco lease, but I also have common respect, which you seem to lack.

Tuesday afternoon, on the Metrolink shuttle from the university, a friend and faculty member came to me and complained she couldn't install the app on her S4. She personally let me take the phone and I went to the play store right there on the shuttle and it said "incompatible". I went to check for a software update for the S4 and it said last update was available a year ago. I haven't looked at reviews, but since you brought the reviews where people were crashing on the S4, I gave my most probable reason on why they would mark those devices as incompatible.

Here's everything I've said so far, in case your memory needs refreshing. You can go back yourself.

Thats the joke. A friend of mine was complaining just yesterday that she couldn't download the new app for the Commuter Train, because it wasn't compatible with her Galaxy S4. The last available update to her phone was a year ago.

Plus, the newest version of Android I've actually seen in the wild was lollipop, and that was purely because the person was using a Nexus 6.

I go to a University. School for 3 days a week, engineering internship 2-2.5 days a week this quarter. I also use bus and commuter train to get to around, so I'm actually around more people than most. Most people aren't using Nexus devices. Mostly Samsungs and those cheap $50-$100 free with contract Android phones. Odd HTC, LG, Nexus etc here and there.

Nice try, but nope. This is for Metrolink (So Cal Commuter Rail, which I work for) and the agency just released a brand-new ticketing app in the wake of lack of funding to replace the horrible ticket vending machines. She let me go to the google play store on her phone itself it and it said it was incompatible - then I checked her S4's software updates and it said it was up to date, with the last available update being from a year ago.

No. It won't let her install the app at all. The play store literally says its not compatible and it won't even download.

It's a brand new app, and they are still working on several improvements such mechanisms to prevent people from buying tickets when no trains are running and working with LA Metro to add barcode readers on the Red Line turnstiles. There are allot of hard working people trying to improve the system with the limited funding available from the stingy member agencies. While the system has its issues, I don't really appreciate you calling it "Metrostink".

 

[Ezlivin]

Amazon Echo has been a great success for Amazon, and for a good reason - it's a fantastic device, ideally suited for a smart home. My entire family, including my kids, uses it constantly for anything from music to weather to facts to shopping to lights to HVAC, etc. etc. No need to pick anything up, press anything. The only thing that's really missing is the conversation continuity. If Google can make it happen, AND support other services in similar ways to Echo, the sky is the limit.

So you are living with an open microphone in your house and that never gives you pause? I'm just curious.

 

[igorsky]

It's not about willingly buying in, it's about being able to willingly get out

Look at all the teen kids who feel locked in because Facetime / iMessage only works on iPhones.

As we know from trial documents, Apple knows that it's not just about attracting, it's about retaining users. Apple knows they can't always compete on features and price. Repeat customers are their bread and butter, and they have to prevent their users from being able to easily move elsewhere.

And yeah, newcomers also often are not aware of the hidden costs they will face of having to use only proprietary (and expensive) Apple ordained cables and adapters.

I get what you're trying to say but this is a completely asinine argument, no offense. First of all if so many people feel like they're trapped in the Apple ecosystem because of Apple, then kudos to Apple for executing one hell of a business strategy. Time to buy more shares.

But the reality is that anyone can switch to whatever platform they want at any time. Transfer your contacts/calendar to any of the myriad of Google services, and use WhatsApp to connect to the countless iPhone users who have the app installed. You may have to eat your losses on the songs and apps you've purchased, but that's how it goes. And even then you can buy a cheap iPod Touch so that you can have access to those. And for those newcomers who are not aware of the "hidden costs", it's not Apple's job to make anyone an educated consumer, as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[MacBH928]

One must keep in mind that these "free" services being given away by Google are not really free. Every microsecond that people spend using at least one Google service is an opportunity for them to collect more data. Combined with their research and advances into machine learning, which could act on that very data, and the future is looking to be a very interesting (and possibly scary) place. Apple's more conservative approach to their platforms and data handling may indeed win out in the long run. We'll have to see.

The problem is the lack of the alternative. Only recently an email alternative has popped up like ProtonMail and DuckDuckGO. What about maps? Smartphone OS? Messaging apps? YouTube?

Even paid service like Dropbox are said to snoop on your info.

 

[macpanzer]

Apple's answer to Google Home will be Sara, the smart house (you know, the one from Eureka)

 

[kyliewylie]

This is real innovation!
Google leaving Apple in the dust!
Tim Cook is too busy pandering to communist China to actually innovate!
Cook is is busy in India trying to save the company instead of innovating like Google!
Apple spent too much time on watch bands to innovate!
Cook is going to be fired!
Steve Jobs would have never let this happen!
Apple still offers 16GB!
Switching to Android and Google services!
Apple is falling behind!
Apple is doomed!
Apple is too busy wasting time on an electric car to innovate!

The level of ignorance here....

 

[flashmac76]

did anyone notice in the Google Home video, the family members addressed Google Home not only with "Ok Google", but also with "Hey Google". You think this will cause another pow-wow between Apple and Google (that is...IF Google truly adopts "Hey Google". Or was it just a slip up of inconsistency...which I don't believe, after having watched the keynote

 

[vanc]

did anyone notice in the Google Home video, the family members addressed Google Home not only with "Ok Google", but also with "Hey Google". You think this will cause another pow-wow between Apple and Google (that is...IF Google truly adopts "Hey Google". Or was it just a slip up of inconsistency...which I don't believe, after having watched the keynote

"Hey Google" works just fine on my Moto 360 with Android wear running on my 6S plus.

 

[spacemnspiff]

You have some errant info in your quote. Google doesn't share data with 3rd party vendors - caveat being to complete financial transactions or subscription services - same process with Apple. The type of sharing you're implying doesn't happen. If for no other reason, that information is the currency that runs Google's machine. If they share it, the 3rd party no longer needs Google.

Opting out of targeted advertising. Apologies, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Opt out doesn't mean you don't receive ads, they just won't be targeted based on your info. Again, same with Apple. I think it's scary to some because people are basing their thoughts on misinformation. Quotes like yours are evidence of that.

Google/Apple comparison? Easy. First, I didn't compare business models. That's the common mistake made in these forums. I compared the advertising component of each companies business.

Both companies have the revenue streams: Hardware, software, services, and advertising. Google's primary revenue comes from their advertising component. Apple's primary revenue component is hardware. Where they get their primary revenue doesn't negate the fact that the totality of their respective revenues come from the same categories. Just because Apple gets more from hardware doesn't nullify Apple selling advertising, software, or services. Just because Google gets more from advertising doesn't nullify Google selling hardware, software, or services.

edit: Advertising revenue is a part of services as far as I know, but I broke it out to make the point clearer.

Ok, I am may not have stated accurately or might have been mistaken. But a quick glance at Google's privacy policy shows that there is plenty of external sharing going on in different forms. https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

Its pretty clear that data is shared. On to the next point, when I stated opt out I meant that if a user could pay for Google services instead of being a Google product to monetize services, that would be a better option that offers credibility and thus transparency.

You clearly state that comparing business models is a common mistake but dont really offer an explanation for that. If you want to make a statement, at least provide the background information that supports the statement. A sweeping statement is not a productive discussion.

On the point of revenue, Apple doesn't have the incentive to retain information for monetization if the user doesn't use Apple services that include ad services. The only Apple software or service that in my personal experience that Apple could gather data on is the Apple News where it collects data to serve ads, the revenue from that is then shared with publishers. What other services or software component does one come across where Apple's primary incentive is to collect data to serve ads and share data?

So from my perspective, Google is using all the information from services such as mail, calendar, search (which includes personal information) etc to serve me ads and then share information with external entities. While with Apple on the other hand, if I don't use Apple News, no information needs to be collected or shared. I dont think we have established yet that Apple and Google are on the same level in terms of ad services and data collection.

All the data collection other than ad services that Apple collects, Apple has no incentive to share it with anyone. This might be a simplistic take, but a start in understanding the incentives, process of collecting data and use of data.

 

[kevinof]

Ok you seem to imply that you really understand what data is being shared by Google. Now me, I'm one of those evil companies that pays Google for this "private" data - I buy ads from Google based on this "data".

Why don't you explain exactly what data is shared with me? I love to see where on the scale of reality your knowledge actually sits.

Waiting in anticipation!

Ok, I am may not have stated accurately or might have been mistaken. But a quick glance at Google's privacy policy shows that there is plenty of external sharing going on in different forms. https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

Its pretty clear that data is shared. On to the next point, when I stated opt out I meant that if a user could pay for Google services instead of being a Google product to monetize services, that would be a better option that offers credibility and thus transparency.

You clearly state that comparing business models is a common mistake but dont really offer an explanation for that. If you want to make a statement, at least provide the background information that supports the statement. A sweeping statement is not a productive discussion.

On the point of revenue, Apple doesn't have the incentive to retain information for monetization if the user doesn't use Apple services that include ad services. The only Apple software or service that in my personal experience that Apple could gather data on is the Apple News where it collects data to serve ads, the revenue from that is then shared with publishers. What other services or software component does one come across where Apple's primary incentive is to collect data to serve ads and share data?

So from my perspective, Google is using all the information from services such as mail, calendar, search (which includes personal information) etc to serve me ads and then share information with external entities. While with Apple on the other hand, if I don't use Apple News, no information needs to be collected or shared. I dont think we have established yet that Apple and Google are on the same level in terms of ad services and data collection.

All the data collection other than ad services that Apple collects, Apple has no incentive to share it with anyone. This might be a simplistic take, but a start in understanding the incentives, process of collecting data and use of data.

 

[polbit]

So you are living with an open microphone in your house and that never gives you pause? I'm just curious.

All modern assistants listen for key activation words. "Alexa" or "Echo" for Amazon, "Hey Siri" for Siri, etc. That's the price of convenience, and I'll take the minuscule chance that somebody will be able to hack the encrypted traffic, as it is a lot more secure that a simple act of browsing the internet.

 

[ackmondual]

It's getting kinda funny how Google is constantly ripping off iOS features in their next Android version and how Apple does the same thing. We'll all end up with two operating systems that are pretty much identical.

They've been taking cues from each other on the hardware front as well. The Samsung Galaxy s6 has full metal exterior that did away with expandable memory card slot and user replaceable battery. The iPhone 6/s ended up going with 4.7 phone and 5.5" "phablet"

GIVE ME A WATERPROOF IPHONE ALREADY!

Curious... could you not just put it in a waterproof case? I'm sure they have those. And the iPhones are small enough that even adding such a case shouldn't make it too bulky.