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Google Now Lets Apps Use Third-Party Billing in EU, Apple Yet to Announce Plans

Ethosik said:
Because apps will leave the App Store requiring third party stores which breaks the walled garden environment.
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Why leave? Just upcharge if that's how someone prefers to get their app? I keep hearing apps and developers will leave. I don't see that happening but we'll only find out if it happens.

Personally I don't care if they do but I think the business they would lose not being in the traditional ios app store would be enough to keep them in it.
 
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Well, if Google does this, then there is not much incentive for developers to switch because you are still paying the commision, which is the primary reason for using alternative payment systems. If Google pays a reverse commsion like 5% of all Google Play store transactions, I don't think many developer would opt out of the program.

If this is the deal, then EU would force Google to Stop acting as the principle app store on Android. It would end up like China where all major tech companies have their own stores on Android. Small developers can choose to list in one or all of those store.
 
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Macative said:
The Mac App Store is a waste land. It was introduced long, long after the "alternate" (primary) method existed, and it has never gained traction. At all. It's a perfect example of what could happen to the iOS App Store, and that would be a terrible result for users.
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Don't see it happening but also don't care. Developers should own there apps not Apple. Apple can make or acquire and sell apps as there own if they want to compete.

App store is way to entrenched at this point and phones aren't computers people use them differently and with phones people are drawn to what's more simple and that is the app store and I don't see that changing.
 
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The_Gream said:
A payment processor (Visa, Mastercard, Discover etc) charge anywhere between 2-5+% plus flat per transaction fees.

Apple has never been a payment processor. They pay the 3% to the processor the other 12-27% is to cover the other things Apple does -

Like taxes, currency exchange, hosting and distribution of app. Developer tools and training. WWDC. And much much more.

I really wish people would pay attention and realized the difference between a payment processor and store front (which is what the App Store and Google Play are). Every business has a markup value on goods. Apple and Google decided not to do the standard behind the screens markup, but instead chose to do a flat % rate based on what the developer thought his app was worth. If the dev undercharges for his/her app, it is their own fault for not understanding finances.
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It being a store front and charging 15-30% isn't the issue. It's being the only store front allowed for ios apps that is.
 
JGIGS said:
Nobody is making anyone get anything from these other payment and download options. They are just options. If people choose to continue with the app store because they feel it's safer they have that option. If the other options don't provide much of a benefit or cost savings they will fail.

It's just about having options and competition. Doesn't seem to be an issue on mac os either.
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Yes these forced regulations to “open up apple”, will cause a race to the bottom, imo.
 
JGIGS said:
It being a storefront and charging 15-30% isn't the issue. It's being the only storefront allowed for iOS apps that is.
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Fair point.

Now let's look at the other side.

Google has allowed alternative app stores and sideloading on Android since the beginning.

Yet hardly any Android developers do it.

I wonder why?

Basically... Android allows it but no one does it... and iOS doesn't allow it and people shout that they must!

It'll be funny if Apple is forced to allow sideloading and alternate app stores... and developers care about it as much as they do on Android.

:p
 
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JGIGS said:
But anyway to me this is really just about developers having the choice of how to distribute what they created and eliminate monopolies.
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So your on record for dev distribution freedom trumps consumer convenience and protections.

Via the Apple store:
  • All apps are in one place, easy to view competing apps :: consumer convenience
  • All apps are required to report data collection practices :: consumer protection
  • All app purchases and IAP run through a single payment processor :: consumer convenience and protection
  • App updates happen through a single app store experience :: consumer convenience

Via alt-stores/alt-payment processors:
  • Apps are scattered to countless individual sites or smaller stores :: not convenient at all, my PC and Mac app experience sucks compared to iOS
  • Apps are no longer required to detail data collection practices :: protections lost
  • App purchases and IAP are scattered amongst countless processors :: protections lost
  • App updates will be scattered to multiple web sites or multiple store apps like Steam, Amazon, Microsoft, etc.
None of the alt-store experiences seem consumer friendly to me. Devs are also free to not product apps for iOS, if they want distribution freedom the write for Android, PC or Mac.
 
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JGIGS said:
Without knowing the %'s that McDonalds and other retailers pay per transaction I'm sure it's a lot less then what Apple charges which I think is around 30%?

Again not sure the exact % but a lot less. In theory developers could charge less and or be more profitable with a third party payment system.

Apple cares way more about the money grabbing aspects of their ecosystem then privacy. Trust me.
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You have no idea how many fees McDonald's franchise paid to McDonald's ...
 
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bgraham said:
I'm sure Google/Apple charging a fee for a developer to use another payment provider is not what the EU intended.

Give it time, this will be outlawed too as it should.
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I can't wait until all the developers start whining about instead of paying $100 a year to make apps and have to start paying thousands of dollars a year. All those "free" tools will go away...
 
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JGIGS said:
Why leave? Just upcharge if that's how someone prefers to get their app? I keep hearing apps and developers will leave. I don't see that happening but we'll only find out if it happens.

Personally I don't care if they do but I think the business they would lose not being in the traditional ios app store would be enough to keep them in it.
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If only there was a real world example that was closely related we could point to instead of your uniformed speculation...
 
Macative said:
If only there was a real world example that was closely related we could point to instead of your uniformed speculation...
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You're speculating even harder than me there bud. Thinking every developer will march out of the app store. And even if they did it's not like ios users can't still get the apps.
 
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JGIGS said:
Why leave? Just upcharge if that's how someone prefers to get their app? I keep hearing apps and developers will leave. I don't see that happening but we'll only find out if it happens.

Personally I don't care if they do but I think the business they would lose not being in the traditional ios app store would be enough to keep them in it.
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Take a look at history on how Epic is handling their store on the PC space. There will be exclusives. Also if you think apps like Facebook will remain you are not involved with how these companies operate. They will leave so they don’t need to disclose what they track.
 
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GeoStructural said:
Also, people fail to understand why Apple's approach is monopolistic, it is not as simple as "go Android... blah, blah".
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It’s not monopolistic. Monopolistic would be to have significant control of the smartphone market in a way that people are unable to acquire any alternatives. For Apple to have control of the Apple device market is pretty much how business is run. It really is just as simple as “go Android”.

UNLESS/UNTIL something happens to make the Android market disappear.
 
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CoolSpot said:
If your entire plan for making money is that you use your natural advantage as the creator of a phone hardware/software platform as leverage to force consumers to use your unrelated software/payment services, you will will not have a viable business model in the DMA-era EU, and will need to adapt.
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That’s literally a description of “running a business”. :) Name one company that doesn’t use their natural advantage as the creator of a device?
 
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JGIGS said:
Nobody is making anyone get anything from these other payment and download options. They are just options. If people choose to continue with the app store because they feel it's safer they have that option. If the other options don't provide much of a benefit or cost savings they will fail.

It's just about having options and competition. Doesn't seem to be an issue on mac os either.
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What if the developer chooses not to offer Apple as a payment option at all?

Then you have to choose between the app + new payment solution or not getting the app at all.

Today, you don't have to make that choice.
 
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icanhazmac said:
So your on record for dev distribution freedom trumps consumer convenience and protections.

Via the Apple store:
  • All apps are in one place, easy to view competing apps :: consumer convenience
  • All apps are required to report data collection practices :: consumer protection
  • All app purchases and IAP run through a single payment processor :: consumer convenience and protection
  • App updates happen through a single app store experience :: consumer convenience

Via alt-stores/alt-payment processors:
  • Apps are scattered to countless individual sites or smaller stores :: not convenient at all, my PC and Mac app experience sucks compared to iOS
  • Apps are no longer required to detail data collection practices :: protections lost
  • App purchases and IAP are scattered amongst countless processors :: protections lost
  • App updates will be scattered to multiple web sites or multiple store apps like Steam, Amazon, Microsoft, etc.
None of the alt-store experiences seem consumer friendly to me. Devs are also free to not product apps for iOS, if they want distribution freedom the write for Android, PC or Mac.
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Protections is very subjective. You're making an assumptions all these 3rd parties places are evil and out to destroy their customers. Sound pretty counter productive to me.

Payments still could be made with Apple pay or is apple going to be more anti competitive and not allow that on third party app stores or web sideloading?

Devs are free to do what they want yes. IF they don't put there products in the ios appstore they are pretty dumb aren't they? Cause a large portion of apple users like you won't purchase it if its not. Or even hear about it.

No one is making you use an app that you don't trust or want on your device. If you want it that bad you'll have to suck it up if that's the case. But apple is making developers sell and do in app purchases through them and charging a hefty fee.

Most paid apps aren't even necessary on smart phones for like 95%. Apple already provides most apps that people need on daily basis or the app is free and free apps are not going to leave the app store.

How about if you can only sell your used car through a car dealership and they charge you 30% to sell it. They'll give you all kinds of marketing etc that you don't care about and you could sell it to someone and make more money selling it your self. Does that seem fair?

Stop making this about you and how inconvenient it is for you. It's not about me either. I love the convenience as well but that's not the point. It's about developers actually allowed to have control over the distribution of their apps period. Let the market decide what works not anti competitive practices forced by Apple.

If Apple and other tech companies were charging a smaller fee this probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm not saying they aren't doing anything for that fee but developers shouldn't have to be locked into it.
 
DeanL said:
The EU has great regulations regarding payment processing, requiring a verification code for most transactions, so your point applies mostly to the US–which is behind as usual.
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Not for small amounts like most app purchases would be.
 
JGIGS said:
Umm developers that don't want to be locked into just that store front? You know the people that actually make the apps?
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Do you disagree with that developers should be treated like second class citizens in the Apple ecosystem?
Because it benefits many of us users that they are treated like that.
 
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