Google 'Pixel Fold' to Use Ultra-Thin Glass, Still on Track for 2021 Release

[chucker23n1]

Honest question. Who is actually asking for folding phones?

On a theoretical, pie-in-the-sky science-fiction level? Me!

I have an iPhone 11 and an iPad mini. Sometimes, I take the mini with me on a commute, because it's nice to have a bigger screen. But it of course takes a much bigger pocket, too. What if I could unfold the iPhone 11 into an iPad mini? Best of both worlds. Cool.

In reality, this isn't a thing. Foldable phones are bad when folded (the ones that work folded at all, anyway), and mediocre when unfolded. They're the worst of both worlds. That seems to be true for every single product in that area so far.

It's possible foldable phones are where smartphones ("PDAs", then) were in the early 1990s: a decade and a half away from being good. It's also possible that this is a pipe dream that, once you think a little about physics, doesn't make much sense.

 

[jmgregory1]

The concept of a folding screen device is so full of complications, many of which just don’t have a solution (now and likely not in the future). Durability is of course a big issue, and it’s not just the screen that is compromised. The hinge mechanism needs to be complicated, because it has to deal with allowing the screen to move, and like anything complicated, there are far more potential points of failure.

Another issue, that just doesn’t seem to be talked about, is water resistance. Here we’ve gotten to the point where most devices are not just water resistant, but can be submerged without damage, yet these folding devices can’t handle any moisture, let alone dust or lint, without compromising the device.

Power is another big issue, and related to that is the required additional thickness that creates a really thick, and in some cases non-pocketable, device. Having a double sized screen, which now also includes a third screen on the reverse side, requires a lot of battery.

Then you get to the screen and this paper-thin glass covering. It would be one thing if the screen and glass could simply fold and unfold like a piece of paper, but because of how both the OLED panel and the glass need to have some radius to the fold, it means the screen needs to move within the folding device to account for the differences in radius from inside the screen to the outside of the glass. And because of that, you don’t get a rigid panel like you do on a typical slab device, which just adds to the potential for damage.

What I’m not understanding most of all about folding phones in their current iterations, is why do we need a device that you have to open up to get a mini-tablet sized screen? Is it for productivity? Or maybe it’s for those people who have eye issues and require a larger screen? Or is it really just a consumption device for watching videos or playing games?

I’m not saying that companies shouldn’t be trying to figure things out with folding devices, but no one is currently selling the features / advantages and benefits of a folding phone, likely because there are too many negatives to overcome.

 

[nvmls]

So they took the Startac and thought "lets make it worse". Good one Google.

 

[kc9hzn]

Well it's not like Apple is any different, the charging station? did not even make it to production, Homepod got discontinued (same fate as the old Hi-FI) PING!!!! I mean it's normqal for a company to cut part that are not working, it's business 101.

AirPower was never released, which means it may not be entirely kosher as an example. Yes businesses close down underperforming services and devices, but Google is quicker to than most to do so (even for strategic initiatives, such as the aforementioned tablets). Actually, AirPower is a great example of a major difference between Google and Apple, Apple tends to kill services and products that don’t meet expectations before they’re announced to the public, with AirPower being one of the few times they can a product after announcement. Google’s product development cycle pushes hardware and services out much earlier in the development cycle than Apple’s development cycle does.

But Google is abnormally quick to give up on strategic initiatives, especially in the hardware and OS spaces.

 

[yabeweb]

AirPower was never released, which means it may not be entirely kosher as an example. Yes businesses close down underperforming services and devices, but Google is quicker to than most to do so (even for strategic initiatives, such as the aforementioned tablets). Actually, AirPower is a great example of a major difference between Google and Apple, Apple tends to kill services and products that don’t meet expectations before they’re announced to the public, with AirPower being one of the few times they can a product after announcement. Google’s product development cycle pushes hardware and services out much earlier in the development cycle than Apple’s development cycle does.

But Google is abnormally quick to give up on strategic initiatives, especially in the hardware and OS spaces.

Well AirPower was announced to the public (AirPower was announced on September 12, 2017 at a media event held at Apple's Steve Jobs Theater,).... and to be fair we do not know the "unannounced Google stuff that have been pulled before the announcement."

There's no difference, when Google fails there's an entire Apple army to remind them, when Apple fails, there's an entire army of anti-Apple to remind them.

Google's fault is probably of trying too many things, wich can also be a good thing, you don't fail if you don't try.

 

[JosephAW]

Not sure what the fascination with folding screens, a scrolling screen would be much better. 🙄

 

[chucker23n1]

Well it's not like Apple is any different, the charging station? did not even make it to production, Homepod got discontinued (same fate as the old Hi-FI) PING!!!!

AirPower comes up because it's the exception, not the rule. You'll be hard-pressed to find other examples of a product that got announced and never launched.

HomePod and Ping are product failures, sure.

(I am sure Airpods will follow soon, heck they do not even support the lossless format they provide),

Uhhhhhhh AirPods are wildly successful earbuds. It's a massive business for Apple.

Aperture,

Aperture existed for nine years.

I guess you can make the cases that it was discontinued because it didn't reach Apple's sales expectation (I'm not sure that's true; it seems to be more that Apple's interest in making their own pro apps has shrunk), but nine years is nothing to sneeze at.

the iPad 3 and going back to the old days you can go from Pippin to Newton.

Sure, but now you have to go back a quarter century to make your point. Google wasn't even founded when the Newton was discontinued.

I mean it's normal for a company to cut parts that are not working, it's business 101.

Of course.

The ding against Google isn't that they discontinue products. It's that they're apparently not very judicious at all about which products to launch in the first place.

There seems to be an organizational flaw where teams get bored with a product and move on to something else, and then upper management doesn't care enough to prevent that from happening, much less form a new team.

I don't think you can make the same case at anywhere near the same scale for Apple. Or, heck, for Microsoft.

 

[2010mini]

Well, they're just starting, maybe in 10 years we ask ourselves how we could live with nonfoldable phones 😛 .
Also the same question could have been asked with smartwatches:
Who wants a smartwatch when you have already a screen on your phone?

Or tablets:
Who wants a tablet? They're just big phones.

And the same with every new tech/product

difference is, smart watches and tables already existed in some form. The smart watches and tables we use today was just an improvement on existing technology. Foldable screen phones however are a new category. They aren’t even the same as flip phones of a bygone era.

 

[yabeweb]

AirPower comes up because it's the exception, not the rule. You'll be hard-pressed to find other examples of a product that got announced and never launched.

HomePod and Ping are product failures, sure.



Uhhhhhhh AirPods are wildly successful earbuds. It's a massive business for Apple.



Aperture existed for nine years.

I guess you can make the cases that it was discontinued because it didn't reach Apple's sales expectation (I'm not sure that's true; it seems to be more that Apple's interest in making their own pro apps has shrunk), but nine years is nothing to sneeze at.



Sure, but now you have to go back a quarter century to make your point. Google wasn't even founded when the Newton was discontinued.



Of course.

The ding against Google isn't that they discontinue products. It's that they're apparently not very judicious at all about which products to launch in the first place.

There seems to be an organizational flaw where teams get bored with a product and move on to something else, and then upper management doesn't care enough to prevent that from happening, much less form a new team.

I don't think you can make the same case at anywhere near the same scale for Apple. Or, heck, for Microsoft.

Sorry I ment the 500$ super duper expensive ones (MAX), the others are selling like hotcakes!

As I said, Google is probably just releasing too much stuff, that's true, but you can't blame them for cutting them down when they do not work.

What from outside might seems like "not very judicious" might be completely different from the inside.

EDIT:
About the newton, I was just saying that it has always been done, it's nothing new even for Apple, and I could simply not go and write every product, I mentioned some from todays some from the early 2000 and some before that, just a sample 😉

Aperture, well it took a lot of those 9 years to convince Pro user to switch and use the product, only to fail them when they did (Final CUt and Logic are much older and still avaiable today).

 

[Premium1]

Lol all the people saying "who would need a folding phone" but would be the first one to order one if it had the apple logo on the back of it

 

[kc9hzn]

AirPower comes up because it's the exception, not the rule. You'll be hard-pressed to find other examples of a product that got announced and never launched.

HomePod and Ping are product failures, sure.



Uhhhhhhh AirPods are wildly successful earbuds. It's a massive business for Apple.



Aperture existed for nine years.

I guess you can make the cases that it was discontinued because it didn't reach Apple's sales expectation (I'm not sure that's true; it seems to be more that Apple's interest in making their own pro apps has shrunk), but nine years is nothing to sneeze at.



Sure, but now you have to go back a quarter century to make your point. Google wasn't even founded when the Newton was discontinued.



Of course.

The ding against Google isn't that they discontinue products. It's that they're apparently not very judicious at all about which products to launch in the first place.

There seems to be an organizational flaw where teams get bored with a product and move on to something else, and then upper management doesn't care enough to prevent that from happening, much less form a new team.

I don't think you can make the same case at anywhere near the same scale for Apple. Or, heck, for Microsoft.

And re: Newton, the whole launch and discontinuation of the Newton is a very poor example, because it was a device that Apple launched during the time Steve Jobs was gone, and it’s Jobs’ return that established the corporate culture I’m describing. Apple’s corporate culture during the late 80s and early 90s was an absolute disaster. A far better example for him to use would have been the G4 Cube, imo.

 

[yabeweb]

And re: Newton, the whole launch and discontinuation of the Newton is a very poor example, because it was a device that Apple launched during the time Steve Jobs was gone, and it’s Jobs’ return that established the corporate culture I’m describing. Apple’s corporate culture during the late 80s and early 90s was an absolute disaster. A far better example for him to use would have been the G4 Cube, imo.

I was talking about the company not about an "era", and while I agree with you, as I said, they were just examples to show that it is nothing new, there are plenty, as you mentioned the Cube, but I can simply not list them all.

 

[chucker23n1]

Sorry I ment the 500$ super duper expensive ones (MAX), the others are selling like hotcakes!

Ah, the AirPods Max. Yeah, those seem a bit like a vanity project. But not sure.

As I said, Google is probably just releasing too much stuff, that's true, but you can't blame them for cutting them down when they do not work.

In fact, I can. I just did!

Here's the thing: when you as a business have a reputation of quickly discontinuing stuff that doesn't work, customers are less likely to try out your new things. Once bitten, twice shy. And Google has bitten many times.

That's not at all true of Apple.

What from outside might seems like "not very judicious" might be completely different from the inside.

It's echo'd by several ex-employees.

EDIT:
About the newton, I was just saying that it has always been done, it's nothing new even for Apple, and I could simply not go and write every product, I mentioned some from todays some from the early 2000 and some before that, just a sample 😉

The point is that that was an era of Apple's that was criticized plenty. Apple isn't currently in that era.

"Apple did the same thing 25 years ago" kind of supports the point: they did, sort of, and they've since course-corrected.

 

[satchmo]

Let me guess. Folding phones are useless...until they're made by Apple.

Naturally, implementation is key. So yes, if it's bulky and clumsy, then it'll fail. But what if it wasn't. What if it was slim and iOS was optimized for the device?

It's simple. A smaller form factor opens up into a larger display. How is that a negative?
How is that different from your MacBook or heck, a physical notepad?

 

[kc9hzn]

Ah, the AirPods Max. Yeah, those seem a bit like a vanity project. But not sure.



In fact, I can. I just did!

Here's the thing: when you as a business have a reputation of quickly discontinuing stuff that doesn't work, customers are less likely to try out your new things. Once bitten, twice shy. And Google has bitten many times.

That's not at all true of Apple.



It's echo'd by several ex-employees.



The point is that that was an era of Apple's that was criticized plenty. Apple isn't currently in that era.

"Apple did the same thing 25 years ago" kind of supports the point: they did, sort of, and they've since course-corrected.

I’m not so sure about AirPods Max. If they had been released under the Beats brand as an ultra-premium headphone set, I don’t think people would make nearly the same statements about them as they do to the Max. Also, they’ve probably got decent downmarket potential (ability to cut prices without sacrificing profit margins drastically, ability to introduce cheaper, lighter weight models, that sort of thing), so I’m not ready to write it off yet.

 

[Ursadorable]

What version of iOS will it run?

 

[kc9hzn]

Let me guess. Folding phones are useless...until they're made by Apple.

Naturally, implementation is key. So yes, if it's bulky and clumsy, then it'll fail. But what if it wasn't. What if it was slim and iOS was optimized for the device?

It's simple. A smaller form factor opens up into a larger display. How is that a negative?
How is that different from your MacBook or heck, a physical notepad?

Other than iPad style multitasking features on an iPhone, which I don’t especially need, I’m not sure what’s to benefit from a folding display on an iPhone. My Xr is a large enough display for most video I watch, and I don’t necessarily want to use my phone for the same sort of productivity tasks I’d use an iPad for.

 

[skitidetdu]

Interesting to see if they can bring anything new the table with foldable phones.

 

[satchmo]

Other than iPad style multitasking features on an iPhone, which I don’t especially need, I’m not sure what’s to benefit from a folding display on an iPhone. My Xr is a large enough display for most video I watch, and I don’t necessarily want to use my phone for the same sort of productivity tasks I’d use an iPad for.

I just suggested one benefit. Imagine that clunky Xr in your pocket at half the size...and opens up to it's current size.

 

[mr_jomo]

Ref. Surveillance capitalism: this could literally be the best phone in the (un)known universe and I'd not buy it 🥳.

And yes, folding phones are totally awesome 😂.

 

[chucker23n1]

I’m not so sure about AirPods Max. If they had been released under the Beats brand as an ultra-premium headphone set, I don’t think people would make nearly the same statements about them as they do to the Max. Also, they’ve probably got decent downmarket potential (ability to cut prices without sacrificing profit margins drastically, ability to introduce cheaper, lighter weight models, that sort of thing), so I’m not ready to write it off yet.

It seems Apple is repositioning Beats as their low-cost audio brand, not premium.

Either way, I don't know the market enough to comment. But the AirPods Max strike me as just a tad too niche.

 

[carlsson]

I want a hologram device!

 

[kc9hzn]

I just suggested one benefit. Imagine that clunky Xr in your pocket at half the size...and opens up to it's current size.

Pockets are thin and broad, modern smartphones are thin and broad, they do a good job of fitting in pockets. Things that are small but thick stand out like a sore thumb and are awkward to slide in and out of a pocket. Folding phones don’t fold like paper, they’re considerably thicker when folded. Generally, I have no issue with fitting my phone in my pocket, even on my jeans pockets, but I would have more of an issue hauling an Altoids tin around.

 

[icolove]

Honest question. Who is actually asking for folding phones?

I have been using a Z Fold 2 for 9 months now and I will never go back. My wife also uses the Z Flip and loves it.

 

[SurferPup]

I have been using a Z Fold 2 for 9 months now and I will never go back.

Important question is: do you fit in it's pocket without too much of a bulge? 😜