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Google's Top Lawyer: Some Apple Inventions are Commercially Essential, Should Be Made Into Standards
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What handheld device had multitouch gestures implemented prior to the iPhone?
I am not talking about just the idea - I am talking about actually putting it into practice on a real handheld device.
That's irrelevant to the discussion then. You're saying Google took the idea from Apple, ideas don't require implementation. The fact is, the idea was out there already, Neonode implemented many touch gestures, there were a lot of single touch phones to build on, and FIC had presented multi-touch in 2006.
So did Google copy or not ? And if they did, what is it you claim they copied ?
No, you said the novel CONCEPT and I have said that the concept was not new and it has been shown before in presentations
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Not all of those patents are from Android and not all of those trials has been finished.
iOS and Android do essentially "look the same" and function very similarly in a number of way, but the design and user experience of the Microsoft system is much different (it does not "look the same" and it provides different functionality). Yes they all use touchable icons, but Microsoft's implementation of that is very different compared to the other two both in look and in function.
If you were to compare a visual of all there operating systems side-by-side, it is very obvious from this high-level that iOS and Android (while different in some aspects) come from the same core user experience concept, whereas Microsoft's OS is something very different.
By the way, what are the "very different paradigms with different goals" that you are talking about? Is it the fact that Android is provided free and open for others to customize? I think that concept is great by the way if it doesn't start by taking other's ideas that took a lot of hard work and money to develop.
No, it is the thing that you can't grasp.
iPhone homescreen it is only a grid of icons that launch applications, nothing more.
Android homescreen doesn't have to have any icon for launching applications, you can put what you want.
The goal and paradigm is totally different. And they are not in any way similat
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/08/24/technology/steve-jobs-patents.html
Just what Steven Jobs was a part of. Even from NeXT.
You need to re-read what I said -- you miss my point...anyone can come up with pie in the sky ideas -- it is putting it into practical application that really matters. Apple put it into practical application on a handheld device first, then Google followed suit piggybacking on the hard work it took to make it a practical application of the idea.
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I did not say novel concept - I said implementation of a concept. Two different things!
What implementation are you talking about, are you saying that Google copied the code?
If you're not talking about code, the implementation doesn't gives a damm, it is the concept what matter and the concept was not new.
It was just one example how the look and feel is much the same at the basic level between iOS and Android (in a very obvious way), but different in the Microsoft OS. Yes - it can be customized in Android and that is a difference, but it starts from the same basics. Again, just an example.
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Anyone can come up with ideas and concepts, but can't figure out how to practically implement them. The real work is in figuring out how to make it really work.
No, it doesn't starts with the same basics
Just one example, we are asking you and you only say the overall look and feel and nothing more.
Do you have examples or not?
And Windows Phone 7 is more similar to Android than Android to iOS
So, are you accusing Google of stealing the code?
You do realize that you have no clue what you are talking about. I can tell from a hand full of your post that it is clear you have never used an Android device.
The 2 OS are very different.
This happens with video games all the time. A certain type of game will become popular, or even a particular mechanic or gimmick within the game. Next thing you everyone else has their version of it.
Do you really think only nintendo should be able to make platforming games and only id make fps?
No - I am accusing them of not being as creative and original (both from design and engineering perspectives) as they could be (and should be) in bringing solutions to consumers when it comes to smartphones.
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I have used an Android device -- and found that while you can customize things and there are a number of differences -- the basics of the user experience are pretty similar to iOS (I am not saying exactly, but similar).
I am not saying there are not really nice things about Android and how it has evolved - I just would have liked to see something grander (which I personally believe Microsoft has or is at least starting to accomplish with where they are taking things).
Just like they are similar to Windows Phone, Windows CE, Palm OS which all pre date iphone.
I guess Google sees this is the moral equivalent of losing trademark on a name that becomes too popular (like what happened to Aspirin).
Just don't see it though. Why innovate at all, if someone can just claim it's "generic" when it becomes popular.
Just don't see it though. Why innovate at all, if someone can just claim it's "generic" when it becomes popular.
Ahhh Ok, I see what is being said. Just the mere fact of sliding one's finger along the glass to open up the device. Doesn't matter if it is a left to right motion, just for sliding the finger.
So Apple is not creative and original because multitouch was not a novel concept.
What is similar? We are still waiting for your similarities
Exactly which is why other companies are going after Apple for their infringement of other people's intellectual property .
But that's not really the issue.
The issue is that Google called to arrange to license some of these patents only to be told Apple wasn't interested in doing so cause the patents were for the stuff that makes the iPhone unique. And legally they don't have to. So Google is attempting to get the courts to force Apple to say yes.
Kind of like if you went to the cops to make them demand that I invite your kid to my kids birthday party cause we have a pool and are getting carnival rides etc after I said no cause our kids are totally not friends
Of course they used other folks tech. They don't own the cell standards patents after all.
But there is a vast difference between using patents someone was willing to license or FRAND patents and not taking no for an answer for something that isn't under FRAND, as Google is attempting
well by your argument then iOS is a copy of palm OS.
iOS has more in common with the older palm OS than Android has in common with iOS.
Just figure I would point that out.
Microsoft Metro UI is a the first real departure from the old Palm OS style.
But saying Android is a copy of iOS speaks a lot to a complete lack of understanding of Android by you.
What exactly is copied in Android from iOS?
Apple sings to their choir.
So, apparently Apple should be able to patent gestures? Did they spend billions on gestures? I would guess that they spent billions researching the right components that would work with the right code compiled by the right compiler to make touch screen computing work as well as theirs did from day one....but billions spent on pinch to zoom (which they did not invent), or billions to develop an indexing engine (which they did not invent), or billions invested to click an icon (with a finger instead of a mouse pointer)...software patents are ridiculous.
To patent a software idea and say "No one else can code something similar in any programming language" is absolutely asinine. More sensible countries do not even allow this ridiculous litigation. I am sorry, but this is not good for the market in the long term. If they did not steal the code then they did not steal.
I can understand a complete knock-off iphone bringing issues of infringement. But just because another touch based operating system does similar things to what an Apple product does does not mean that the competitor stole anything. The people who believe that hook, line, and sinker apparently really believe that Apple is the only company who can innovate in technology and that Apple's products have not improved due to competition. I began using iPhone at version one. It couldn't do much other than play music, surf the web, and look pretty. It was completely amazing at the time though. Samsung also had a touch based phone that they had developed at nearly the same time. It sucked.
Apple wants too much credit and Apple fans sometimes give them too much (and I am often guilty of it too). Some of what Apple has invented should be considered FRAND. Pinch to zoom for one. Small, handheld, multi-touch based, computers that take photos, play media, and are web enabled...Apple should not be able to pantent that...it is a collection of a lot of inventions from a lot of people.
I use iOS and Android...they have both invented some cool stuff and at this point they have both borrowed from one another.
So, apparently Apple should be able to patent gestures? Did they spend billions on gestures? I would guess that they spent billions researching the right components that would work with the right code compiled by the right compiler to make touch screen computing work as well as theirs did from day one....but billions spent on pinch to zoom (which they did not invent), or billions to develop an indexing engine (which they did not invent), or billions invested to click an icon (with a finger instead of a mouse pointer)...software patents are ridiculous.
To patent a software idea and say "No one else can code something similar in any programming language" is absolutely asinine. More sensible countries do not even allow this ridiculous litigation. I am sorry, but this is not good for the market in the long term. If they did not steal the code then they did not steal.
I can understand a complete knock-off iphone bringing issues of infringement. But just because another touch based operating system does similar things to what an Apple product does does not mean that the competitor stole anything. The people who believe that hook, line, and sinker apparently really believe that Apple is the only company who can innovate in technology and that Apple's products have not improved due to competition. I began using iPhone at version one. It couldn't do much other than play music, surf the web, and look pretty. It was completely amazing at the time though. Samsung also had a touch based phone that they had developed at nearly the same time. It sucked.
Apple wants too much credit and Apple fans sometimes give them too much (and I am often guilty of it too). Some of what Apple has invented should be considered FRAND. Pinch to zoom for one. Small, handheld, multi-touch based, computers that take photos, play media, and are web enabled...Apple should not be able to pantent that...it is a collection of a lot of inventions from a lot of people.
I use iOS and Android...they have both invented some cool stuff and at this point they have both borrowed from one another.
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