Got a fully loaded macbook pro... now returning it

[joe-h2o]

I would never pay $1k+ for a computer with only integrated graphics. Apple never should have attached "Pro" to the 13" MacBooks, big mistake and I think it has tarnished the cachet that Apple's Pro line of computers once carried. You have all of these people now that have griped of a lack of graphical grunt with their 13" "Pro's" ... heck theres even 15" models without discrete graphics now too. Terrible.

Why not? Do you think that "pros" don't use 13" MBPs? The whining on this forum over what Apple is allowed to call things is occasionally hilarious but most often tiresome.

I don't see how the 13" MBP has at all "tarnished the cachet". If that's the way you measure your computer's worth then I suspect you're more concerned about image than actual usefulness.

 

[throAU]

15" vs 13" rMBP:
I think the 15" rMBP should be the way to go for "power users"... the 13" rMBP does not really offer the advantages for me personally... in other words, if portability and retina display was the metric a person was using to choose their purchase... i don't think it is clear cut with the 13" rMBP over the 13" MBA.

It really depends what you want. A baseline 4 GB MBA will not cut it for what i want to do. I wanted at least 500gb SSD and 8 GB of RAM or more.

I did not want a 15" machine because i've owned them before and they're just a little bit too large to use on my lap comfortably, on aircraft, etc. I have a desktop for doing desktop stuff.

Spec an MBA up to 8 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD and you spend an extra 100 bucks or so to get a pro with retina display, better CPU, etc.

I can't say i've had any issues with the GPU and have even done light gaming on it was more than playable. The speakers are WAY, WAY better than the air too. Way better than my 15" classic as well.

 

[bobbytomorow]

Why not? Do you think that "pros" don't use 13" MBPs? The whining on this forum over what Apple is allowed to call things is occasionally hilarious but most often tiresome.

I don't see how the 13" MBP has at all "tarnished the cachet". If that's the way you measure your computer's worth then I suspect you're more concerned about image than actual usefulness.

Apple literally slapped "Pro" onto the standard aluminum MacBook, that doesn't make it a "Pro" device. Pro devices should at the very least have "Pro" features like a discrete GPU with its own memory. I couldn't care less about image, its what I get for my money otherwise I would be happy having a cut-down "Pro".

For whats it worth I think this mattered more at that time though, Intel has come a long way since then with their integrated graphics.

 

[Barna Biro]

The majority of professions don't require a dedicated GPU to get things done. Your point is invalid...
YOU might need one, but many, many, many other professionals can't care less.

Following your logic, we should also conclude that the 15" rMBP that comes only with integrated graphics isn't worthy of the "Pro" label either... so what if it has a quad-core CPU? That's so yesterday's tech... how about at least a hexa- or octo-core CPU? Would that make up for the lack of dedicated GPU and deserve the "Pro" label? Let's also make it come with a standard of 64GB RAM, cause Pros can't possibly do anything with less...

Hilarious... the amount of narrow-minded folk nowadays...

 

[linkgx1]

To be frank, a GPU isn't necessarily needed, especially with how great processors are at handling video now. I mean, if I'm using something that is video intensive, I probably should be using a desktop. My desktop is pretty powerful, but when the GPU died I had almost forgotten it was on integrated graphics because of how smooth 1080p and other applications are.

 

[jmikhail490]

wow. some of these folks here just get so worked up over such ridiculous things like naming. whats the big deal. It could possibly just be called pro because they start out higher specced than the air or rMB and they can be BTO way higher than either of the other two options. therefore it is apples "PRO" line of Laptops. doesn't mean it has to have 64gb ram and a crazy dedicated GPU to be "considered" anything. They could call the lines "Macbook weak/mediocre/strong" for all I care, but then they would be hurting themselves lol. Pro, to me, means Apples strongest most powerful PORTABLE machines. If thats not up to par for anyone then maybe Apple isn't the way to go.

Written on my Macbook Strong 15"

 

[alpinadvl]

...It definitely sounds like you were unlucky and you got a faulty notebook. The 13" rMBP has superior performance to the MBA... this is measurable and it is a fact. Personally, I could not get used to the MBA's screen... after ~1 hour of use, my eyes and head were almost always hurting like hell ( considering I spend at least 10-12 hours a day in front of a screen, this was quite a deal-breaker for me... funnily enough, the MBA was, so far, the only device I ever had such issues with... no idea why my body was rejecting it so "violently" ).

The only impression I can agree to is point a) ( all the other point are either far fetched, false or extremely subjective - I do understand it's an impression, but the way you're exaggerating about certain things makes the other points feel more like a "this is fact, because I say it so" than an impression ), the MBA does indeed seem to be better at creating a "much lighter than it is" feeling due to its design. That being said, the 13" rMBP is far from bad and personally, I like its form more than the MBA's... I tend to use the notebook on my lap 99% of the time and for whatever reason, I find that the MBA simply doesn't feel as good / comfortable in my lap for extended periods of time. Perhaps my posture is just bad, but my neck and eyes definitely appreciates the 13" rMBP more.

lol....


My Conclusion On This Thread:
I have to say, after reading the comments in this thread... I am now upset that I had such a bad experience (!) ... it is obvious from things written here, chatting with Queen6 privately, that there must have been some serious flaw with the computer I had received.. I would not have even attempted posting a thread had I got the sense that something was really amiss with the laptop (serious defect).

Truth be told, I was initially concerned about the "No Wifi Hardware Installed" error I got twice.. and was more worried of having to deal with this issue over and over again - so wanted a new replacement computer from the start. My observations were coming from the point of view (really) of just someone observing "nuances" and "nuisances" ... not real obvious and outright performance problems.

All this culminated with (what I can only hope was) rare, crappy service dealings with Applecare "review" processes... and I just decided "enough" , time to return.


Arrrrggggh :
HOWEVER, after reading the posts here, especially from Queen6, Barna Brio, and Vickar amongst others... it is obvious that I had much more serious issues going on with my rMBP than I was aware of. I still will be returning the laptop.. its one of those "once the ship has sailed" kind of moments for me.

So, I guess I lost out on a really good/positive laptop purchase experience...


MBA vs rMBP:
I did not want this to turn into a MBA vs rMBP debate.. I am partly responsible though.
I do hope someone coming from a MBA, would read my comments - and help them better inform what things might be relevant for them.
Also, I think it was good to get the (passionate) perspective of rMBP owners... at the end of the day, it is going to be your own subjective opinion that matters in steering you to one or the other... or variation within the lineup.

 

[bobbytomorow]

Following your logic, we should also conclude that the 15" rMBP that comes only with integrated graphics isn't worthy of the "Pro" label either

I would come to that conclusion, yes. I'm not down with paying 2K for a laptop that comes with less than it did 5 years ago. If you're cool paying the same for less, thats great but having everything soldered to the logic board and integrated graphics on a Pro line is not something I'm willing to just swallow even if it is from the Almighty Apple Gods

 

[BoneDaddy]

Hands down, either a bull **** post, or just a guy who got a bad Apple and can't be bothered to go pic another one off the tree. MILLIONS of people have no problems. I produce music in Logic Pro X with plugins and not only is it fast as hell with no lag, but even when I have it docked into my dual monitor system, it flies.

My best guess is your tears from crying, because of the beauty when you first laid eyes on it, dripped into the keys and messed up the logic board. Easiest way to fix it is to kick the nearest PC. Otherwise you're just going to have to send it back to Apple and wear a bib to catch the next set of tears.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I would come to that conclusion, yes. I'm not down with paying 2K for a laptop that comes with less than it did 5 years ago. If you're cool paying the same for less, thats great but having everything soldered to the logic board and integrated graphics on a Pro line is not something I'm willing to just swallow even if it is from the Almighty Apple Gods

The current intel GPU's used by apple are more than powerful enough for all but the most demanding video editing in 4K (or gaming), this was not the case 5 years ago and the intel chips are more expensive because of it. I'd much rather have a stable, low power iGPU that does everything I need, than a dGPU that causes heating and noise issues and has a history of failure.

 

[AFEPPL]

I couldn't live with a MBA, it's just not good enough. Can't say I've had an issue with the ones I have and much smoother than the MBA.

But if what you bought is not where you want it to be just return it - it's apples problem.

 

[Alameda]

If I were Apple, I wouldn't custom build you another one, either. You obviously don't like it and a replacement will be no different. CPU speed is just an Intel gimmick and most people can't notice it in their daily work. So if it isn't right for you, nothing wrong with that.

 

[cbautis2]

If I were Apple, I wouldn't custom build you another one, either. You obviously don't like it and a replacement will be no different. CPU speed is just an Intel gimmick and most people can't notice it in their daily work. So if it isn't right for you, nothing wrong with that.

Agree. Maxing out an Air, rMB, rMBP 13" is just plain inept except for RAM/Storage upgrades. Maxing out a 15" rMBP is actually worth it due to 4 cores getting boost instead of 2 cores only. There's also a HUGE GHz boost/performance in maxing out a rMBP 15: from 2.2 Base that turbos to 3.4 GHz to 2.8 GHz base that turbo to 4 GHz.

 

[throAU]

Apple literally slapped "Pro" onto the standard aluminum MacBook, that doesn't make it a "Pro" device. Pro devices should at the very least have "Pro" features like a discrete GPU with its own memory. I couldn't care less about image, its what I get for my money otherwise I would be happy having a cut-down "Pro".

For whats it worth I think this mattered more at that time though, Intel has come a long way since then with their integrated graphics.

You really have no idea.

Discrete GPUs are needed by very few pro users in a portable device.

There are professions outside of 3d modelling. As an aside, the vast majority of users I've encountered who are dead set on discrete GPUs (in laptops) are GAMERS not professionals using their machines for work - people using portable machines for actual work often tend to be more interested in battery life, connectivity, storage and RAM capacity.

THE MOST COMMON LAPTOP i see amongst professional network engineers (for example) is the 13" Macbook Pro (currently the retina model, previously the classic). If you can get over the GPU (and mobile discrete GPUs are pretty crap anyway - just slightly less so than integrated) the 13" MBP is a very capable machine.

And as far as "what you get for your money" - you are paying for a retina display, good keyboard (better than the air or rMB), higher spec CPU

 

[T5BRICK]

2011 MBA / 4gb ram / 256gb / 1.8 Ghz Single Core i7

or

2015 retinaMBP / 16gb ram / 1Tb / 3.1Ghz dual core i7​

​

FYI, they're both dual core processors. The 2015 i7 is 3 generations newer and should be roughly 20-30% faster.

 

[T5BRICK]

Don't get the GPU upgrade!

I'm guessing you mean CPU upgrade, since the 13" rMBP doesn't have a discrete GPU that can be upgraded.

Anyway, you're right. The upgraded CPU isn't worth the extra $200 for most people.

 

[throAU]

​

FYI, they're both dual core processors. The 2015 i7 is 3 generations newer and should be roughly 20-30% faster.

The cooling on the retina 13" machine is night and day better than the MBA also, and it will run at much higher turbo boost speed for longer.

 

[alpinadvl]

Hands down, either a bull **** post, or just a guy who got a bad Apple and can't be bothered to go pic another one off the tree. MILLIONS of people have no problems. I produce music in Logic Pro X with plugins and not only is it fast as hell with no lag, but even when I have it docked into my dual monitor system, it flies.

My best guess is your tears from crying, because of the beauty when you first laid eyes on it, dripped into the keys and messed up the logic board. Easiest way to fix it is to kick the nearest PC. Otherwise you're just going to have to send it back to Apple and wear a bib to catch the next set of tears.

LMAO !...
LOL!!!!... yes.. I think you are right

 

[alpinadvl]

I'm guessing you mean CPU upgrade, since the 13" rMBP doesn't have a discrete GPU that can be upgraded.

Anyway, you're right. The upgraded CPU isn't worth the extra $200 for most people.

Yes.. oops... corrected... thanks (must have been the tears that hit my keyboard and made me type "G" instead of "C"

 

[bobbytomorow]

THE MOST COMMON LAPTOP i see amongst professional network engineers (for example) is the 13" Macbook Pro (currently the retina model, previously the classic). If you can get over the GPU (and mobile discrete GPUs are pretty crap anyway - just slightly less so than integrated) the 13" MBP is a very capable machine.

Last I checked network engineers don't need a discrete GPU because they are friggin NETWORK ENGINEERS ... lol ... You can manage networks with a Newton, if your friends are buying MacBooks to do work on networks they deserve to get less for their money to begin with

 

[Barna Biro]

There's no point in throwing poo at network engineers who are using Macs. No one said that they are limited to doing ONLY that on their machines. They might have valid reasons to use a Mac, they might not... is it your money they are spending? How about we just let them use whatever they feel like using to get the job done and can afford getting... Sounds reasonable, right?

I would come to that conclusion, yes. I'm not down with paying 2K for a laptop that comes with less than it did 5 years ago. If you're cool paying the same for less, thats great but having everything soldered to the logic board and integrated graphics on a Pro line is not something I'm willing to just swallow even if it is from the Almighty Apple Gods

Your means of measuring "more" and "less" are quite simplistic and flawed. Modern integrated GPUs are no pushover, they are on par or even surpass many mobile-dGPUs from 5-6 years ago ( not to mention that raw graphic processing performance isn't the only thing people might be interested in... heat, power consumption, etc. can also play a very important role ). If you happen to be working in a field that makes heavy use of a GPU, then you should, of course, look for hardware that can fit your needs. Just because the 13" rMBP was not designed to satisfy the specific needs of a specific group of professionals, it does not mean it's less of a "Pro" ( whatever that word might mean to you )... it surely satisfies the needs of many, many, many other professionals who's work does not depend on / require heavy graphic processing or a bucket-load of RAM a quad- hexa- octo-core CPU, etc. ( it's important to note that it's not as if you "can't" use it for such tasks if you really, really feel like doing so, just that depending on the the complexity and size of the model(s) / image(s) / video(s) you're trying to render / edit, the task could take a significant amount of time to complete and / or the overall experience might not be very pleasant... )

Of course, you're entitled to an opinion and you can have whatever standards you feel like having... there's nothing wrong with that. Things tend to turn nasty the moment you try to force your opinion(s) / standard(s) onto others who clearly don't fit them and who might not even want to fit them. In the end, it's your wallet and time... if you don't feel like getting a 13" rMBP because you don't think it deserves a label ( or whatever the reason might be ), then cool, just go and get something else that you think is worth your money.

 

[throAU]

Last I checked network engineers don't need a discrete GPU because they are friggin NETWORK ENGINEERS ... lol ... You can manage networks with a Newton, if your friends are buying MacBooks to do work on networks they deserve to get less for their money to begin with

They are professionals though. My point is "discrete GPU" is not a requirement for a device to be considered a pro device.

And i am one of those people. Why the mac? less vulnerable to malware, has a degree of unix API compatibility, C compiler, nice retina display for text, multiple desktops, can run any other OS in Fusion, comes supplied with tools like tcpdump, perl, bash shell, etc.

 

[newellj]

Post deleted, no need to add to the thread.

 

[Meister]

I doubt any company is going to send you a second product before receiving the first one in a return/swap.

Also, upgrade to El Capitan. It fixes the lag you're experiencing.

The UI has been laggy since Mavericks and Yosemite made it worse. I seriously doubt El Capitan is going to help.

I still love my rmbp. The UI lag seems to be a quirk related to the retina.

 

[jermy4]

You had me nervous because I had already ordered a new rMBP 13" to replace my mid 2011 13" MBA i5/4GB/256GB but it was in transit when I first saw this thread. So I was convinced that I would have to play with this new rMBP for a couple of weeks to decide if it was really worth upgrading or if I should return it. I didn't go for a maxed out 2015 13" but rather the standard 13" 8GB 256GB 2.7GHz core i5 config. I received my new rMBP last night and was immediately impressed with it compared to my 2011 MBA, everything is so quick and the screen is incredible ... great colors and viewing angles and everything is so sharp. The other thing that really impressed me is how even if I max out the CPU for awhile the fans don't kick up to ear screaming levels like my old MBA. I also like the smaller footprint of the rMBP even though it is thicker and heavier, I tend to use it at my desk anyways to the footprint is more important than the thickness or weight.

I honestly wonder if there is/was something wrong with your maxed out 2015 rMBP because it should be a noticeable improvement, they really knocked it out of the park with these new SSDs and how quick they are. I'm also really liking having 8GB of memory vs the 4GB I had on the MBA and you went from 4 to 16 so you should be in even better shape.