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GPS not good enough for turn by turn??

I'm wondering if we're all jumping to conclusions based on the GPS being used with the iPhone's Google Maps.

Perhaps the jittery behavior (described by PhightinPhils26) is more an issue with Google Maps needing to refresh its map via 3G/EDGE.

No one will really know what this GPS can do until TomTom or some other company makes an App that uses the GPS well. Apple might be downplaying the "turn-by-turn" simply because Google Maps is not designed for real-time nav.

We just need to wait and see.
 
bacaramac said:
So how do we explain this post on Gizmodo???

http://gizmodo.com/5024018/telenav-confirms-iphone-in+car-navigation-app

I can't imagine that Telnav would go to effort to develope if it wasn't a sure thing. I would think it would have to be in the App store as I don't see Apple making this native with Google maps already available.
Click to expand...

It may be that nav partners are going to make the applications we all suspect.

But the point is that all we know for a FACT is that:

1. Apple's iPhone SDK prohibits application which provide "real time route guidance", without respect to Google Maps, and

2. Apple told an NYT reviewer in what was sure to be a heavily vetted comment that the internal antenna was "not suitable" for in-vehicle navigation.

The latter comment may end up being just a massive oversimplification so that people don't think that the phone has such capabilities built-in. The bottom line is that we cannot come to any conclusions about what will be available on the iPhone until it's available for download from the App Store, regardless of what Telenav and TomTom are technically capable of whipping up with the SDK.
 
If this thing doesn't function f*cking exactly like my current GPS then I'm going to be really pissed off.

How come blackberry and windows mobile can do it? How come every verizon flip phone can do it? Why advertise gps function if its completely useless.

Seriously. I'm not talking about "turn by turn" as in giving step by step directions, that's f*cking useless. That's what mapquest and google maps are for. I'm talking about live tracking, always updating, "make a left in 100 feet" GPS.
 
kdarling said:
TomTom / TeleAtlas and Nokia / NavTeq just aren't going to let that happen.
Click to expand...

Yep --- that's the real reason.

There are only 2 map makers in the world --- TomTom and Nokia just spent $12-14 billion buying the two companies up.

They charge a very low price for non-navigation usage and a much higher price for navigation usage.
 
samab said:
Yep --- that's the real reason.

There are only 2 map makers in the world --- TomTom and Nokia just spent $12-14 billion buying the two companies up.

They charge a very low price for non-navigation usage and a much higher price for navigation usage.
Click to expand...

Actually thats not true, all of the UK and some of Europe maps are provided by the UK Government Ordinance Survey Company. It's all licensed.
 
gazzer82 said:
Actually thats not true, all of the UK and some of Europe maps are provided by the UK Government Ordinance Survey Company. It's all licensed.
Click to expand...

Now that would be a coup d'etat. A nice vector map, as well laid out as Google, but with a lot more detail. Countours as a map layer etc. Unfortunately it's a no go.
 
Actually Ordinance Survey have opened the API for non commercial use. They are great at embracing new technology so if enough people suggest it they may well create an iPhone app.

The API is accessible here

http://openspace.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/openspace/

Unfortunately it doesn't contain that much detail, and only covers the UK.
 
Oh mannnn, not looking good for me. Just starting to see some of the initial "First Impressions" not hearing good things about the GPS (e.g for my needs anyways). Of course first impressions are pretty slim (e.g. New Zealanders only) at this time. Hopefully some of you will post some in-depth reviews of the GPS when you get your IPhone. Think I'm going to hold off, especially given the 2-year contract (e.g. hate for apple to upgrade the GPS in 6-12 months). So bummed, what to do, maybe some good apps will be released and I'll change my mind.
 
I don't want to get LESS then what I already have, er, had. The BB GPS worked perfecly with both Mapquest Navigator ($49.95/year) or Telenav ($9.99/month) on my BB Curve. I expect the iPhone will do the same or I will return it under the 30 day MBG and get the new BB Bold.


frosse said:
Are you basing your whole purchase on GPS features such as turn by turn?

And your jumping in bed with BB too, dear god.
Click to expand...
 
taylorwilsdon said:
If this thing doesn't function f*cking exactly like my current GPS then I'm going to be really pissed off.
Click to expand...

Frankly, it seems very naive, to somehow think that having a GPS chip means the same thing as having an automotive navigation application.

Although you're right, Apple hasn't bent over backwards to make the distinction. Probably because such an app will come sooner or later.

How come blackberry and windows mobile can do it? How come every verizon flip phone can do it? Why advertise gps function if its completely useless.
Click to expand...

It's not useless. It can leave a bread crumb trail while hiking. It can tell you exactly where you are. It can be used to track and guide friends and family. GPS isn't just for turn by turn instructions.
 
gazzer82 said:
Actually thats not true, all of the UK and some of Europe maps are provided by the UK Government Ordinance Survey Company. It's all licensed.
Click to expand...

According to their FAQ, those are just picture tiles. Useless for road navigation.

An automotive nav app must have a database of roads, so you can get directions. It also needs vector (not picture) data, so it can snap your position to the closest road.

As a side note, TeleNav uses TeleAtlas map data.
 
frosse said:
He had to run real fast to pass lombard street that fast, an zig zag too.
Click to expand...

Just for fun I compared the WWDC keynote video to real life videos of cars driving down Lombard Street.

WWDC video : 20 secs
Real life cars : 80-90 secs with no traffic

There's no way on earth that a car made it down Lombard's eight switchbacks in 20 secs. A bike going very fast, maybe... but it would have to traverse each section in two seconds or so.

Apparently Steve's RDF extends to time and space as well. But then, we knew that from the original iPhone "instant" web access ads ;-)
 
locoGPS

locGPS update:
- It's in development
- Planned release later this summer/fall available with maps for N. America and most countries in Europe.

"There will be several enhancements that will make the solution more attractive to even the 3G iPhone's GPS applications which we will be announcing soon."
- No exact release date
- No exact pricing set as yet.
 
Today is July 22, 2008. The iPhone has been in consumers' hands for eleven days
now. Do we have any updates with respect to turn-by-turn navigation or the
signal strength of of the GPS? btw, to all that have rumored that the
iPhone's GPS anntena is too small for in-car navigation, let me remind you that
the iPhone has "assisted GPS," which means that as long as you have cell
service, your phone has a general idea of where you are)
.
 
Rybold said:
Today is July 22, 2008. The iPhone has been in consumers' hands for eleven days
now. Do we have any updates with respect to turn-by-turn navigation or the
signal strength of of the GPS? btw, to all that have rumored that the
iPhone's GPS anntena is too small for in-car navigation, let me remind you that
the iPhone has "assisted GPS," which means that as long as you have cell
service, your phone has a general idea of where you are)
.
Click to expand...

As I said in another thread, the iPhone 3G's GPS capability is just as good, if not better, than the GPS capability in other handsets, and more than accurate enough for turn-by-turn navigation.

Your second statement about the GPS antenna being too small and A-GPS makes no sense. It was an Apple engineer who directly told David Pogue of the New York Times that it was "too small", and without an actual GPS fix, all the cell tower triangulation in the world is useless for satnav applications.

That said, I have found that the iPhone 3G easily gets and maintains a GPS fix. We still don't know what technical, procedural, legal, contractual, and other reasons are causing Apple to be VERY careful about the turn-by-turn situation. We know that Google's data can't be used for it; so perhaps the SDK statement is an oversimplification. Apple still has not completely clarified this. Meanwhile, TomTom and Telenav both claim to have turn-by-turn applications coming for the iPhone.

Time will tell.
 
First of all I find that the iPhone gps capabilities are excellent. Satalite link up is faster than any other device I have used. It also holds the link quite well from within my car.

I really don't put to much stock in what these so called "experts" like Pouge and Mossberg say. I find errors in their analysis all the time. In all actuality Pouge talked to a marketing "handler" and not an engineer at Apple. What is he going to say when TomTom and Telenav are out and working just fine? Personally I will get the info from true apple experts like Dr. Arn and Erica S.
 
bit_bucket said:
First of all I find that the iPhone gps capabilities are excellent. Satalite link up is faster than any other device I have used. It also holds the link quite well from within my car.

I really don't put to much stock in what these so called "experts" like Pouge and Mossberg say. I find errors in their analysis all the time. In all actuality Pouge talked to a marketing "handler" and not an engineer at Apple. What is he going to say when TomTom and Telenav are out and working just fine? Personally I will get the info from true apple experts like Dr. Arn and Erica S.
Click to expand...

Just to note again - Pogue got info from Apple that later basically got corrected , and Mossberg didn't even try his iPhone's map system in a car.
Pogue told me directly he did speak to an Engineer at Apple - it is made clear about that - I think Pogue was just misinformed.
("My information on the weak GPS comes directly from the iPhone product manager, Bob Borchers.")

So I imagine Apple's Greg Joswiak should know something too. If he can tell us why cut and past isn't in there, you've got to give some credence.

Pogue said "According to Apple, the iPhone's G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle," he was informed apparently by Borchers.

Joswiak corrected that statement , here
http://www.appscout.com/2008/07/apple_we_dont_hate_gps_cut_and.php
the iPhone's GPS is just like the GPS in other phones, many of which do provide driving directions. Rather, there are some murky "complicated issues" preventing driving directions apps at the moment. "It will evolve. I think our developers will amaze us," he said.
Click to expand...

Basically, wait.
 
I live in Switzerland and do not find the iPhone GPS as accurate as my HTC Touch Cruise dedicated Tomtom GPS.

There are several problems in addition to the lack of turn by turn directions and route correction if one ventures off the proposed path.

First, there is a lag between where you actually are (walking or driving) and where the iPhone alleges you are.

Secondly, the screen dims when in the aGPS mode (and please don't suggest I need to go into Settings, General, Auto-Lock and disable that) -- the iPhone should know when I am in GPS mode and disable the auto dim and lock automatically.

Thirdly the bloody Google map does not automatically change the page as one gets closer to the destination. Stupid.

So there is the (i) hardware issue (is the aGPS antenna too small (it's a matter of whom your choose to believe, Pogue or Joswiak) and (ii) software issue. The former cannot be corrected in this model and the latter better be corrected real soon.
 
guy posting right above.

Dont compare google maps to a legit gps program. Its not intended to be any sort of "competition" for turn by turn software.

I just drove 5 hours yesterday and sporadically turned on google maps to check where I was and see how the gps was holding up...

Under my roof (though its a canvas convertible top) it was able to keep up with me very well. yes it might lag 20 meters behind you but my in car gps lags a bit as well.

It does follow the gps marker which I thought was pretty cool. and something I thought was really cool is that you can use gps in hybrid satellite mode making it very easy to tell how far off it was from your actual location.

Turn by turn will be developed. It will cost money. I will pay for it and gladly use it.
 
Here is a nice article at zdnet describing the GPS antenna situation (e.g. with pictures). I was kind of waiting for this all to unfold before I made a decision.

I do a lot of touring on a motorcycle (e.g. unfamiliar areas, getting off the main roads, etc.), had a Garmin Quest for many years but someone stole it recently. So, I was in the market for a replacement, thought about the iphone, but it just not sounding like it isn't going fit my immediate needs, I went ahead and bought a Zumo 450.

I'm sure the IPhone will get something in place soon, and I'm sure it will satisfy most people's needs and my needs when just cruising around town or the occasional excursion (e.g. Zumo a lot bigger and more of a hassle mounting/unmounting, etc.). I still might get the IPhone, but not for use as a serious GPS (e.g. ability to map routes on computer, share routes with other riders, track where I've been, ability to track using multiple views 2D/ 3D, durability/dependability/accuracy, etc.). That is my thinking anyways.
 
i havent read (and wont read) all 8 pages on this thread...
but i just used my iphone in google maps with gps tracking on, and it followed me fine the whole way home, using 3G and GPRS to download maps data (depending where i was)
generally excellent, although it was constantly ~4m or so behind me - although it would have been fine for turn by turn directions!
 
Not only is my 3G iPhone GPS not good enough for turn by turn, but it really isn't any better than the "GPS assist" feature on the original iPhone. Side by side with my friend who has it (we were both on Edge because 3G was too weak in the area for me to use) his actually loaded faster! And worse, we were both put in the same "general location" spot, which was wrong. I thought that the GPS on 3G was supposed to be more accurate. I'm not real thrilled. Seems like a gimmick to me. Any thoughts?
 
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