Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
$30.000 is peanuts for Apple, they just buy one and before you know it iOS is patched, if not already.
Well, you can be damn sure that the manufacturer of this box will not sell it to Apple (and neither are government agency very likely to give one they bought to Apple).
 
Um, I have a question:

From the article:


Two iPhones can be connected to the GrayKey at once, and need to be connected for about two minutes to install proprietary software that's designed to guess the passcode for an iPhone. Once the software is installed, it will work to crack the passcode, a process that can take as little as a few hours for a short passcode or several days for a longer six-digit passcode.


How does the software get installed to a locked iPhone?
 
Apple: "Hi yes I need to order two GrayKey's."

GrayKey: "Okay and where are we shipping these?"

Apple: "Cuperti--"

GrayKey: "Click."
Apple might be able to bribe a police agency into ordering a unit. Look for a small impoverished agency suffering from a downturn in property values.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tooloud10
So do I have more rights than you because I studied info security and know how to use (non-Apple) tools that would take thousands of years to crack?

If an exploit exists that one company or agency can use, it exists for everyone. If The State wants to know what I’m up to, they have myriad options to find out. My use of an iPhone should not make their job or any hackers job easier.
Example, refuse to answer a subpoena. Set of rules apply. Same open your phone, set of rules apply. You do not need to answer the subpoena or open your phone. However, you may spend a good deal of time sitting in jail and money not following the rules. The phone is not unique in this aspect. Our rights are Not unlimited.
 
Last edited:
We do not have unlimited rights. This post an example, only those of certain status get to respond. Even our First Amendment rights are not unlimited. The problem with technology, moves faster then laws and regulations can adapt. There needs to be some clearly defined boundaries for any access requests, but access at some level needs to be there.

Setting response: [Snappin']

First Amendment speech rights are universal, its criminal intent of other separate actions that you've conflated. Stuff like yelling fire in a crowded theater, isn't covered because it's not just speech, it's a deliberate action to physically harm people. Just yelling 'fire' doesn't make anyone fall down a flight a stairs. Coercing the person into direct harm, by most methods, is the part that's illegal.

Also: you're completely wrong. The Constitution is contract from the people granting the government certain specific rights, it says in there, all other rights (not enumerated) belong to the people. The right to privacy... yep, that's the people's. Eatting Tide-pods? Same. Bbq Pokemon? Ditto. Watch another Batman movie even thought you already know its going to be terrible? The same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: idunn
Not my point. It is more difficult to break into my security alarmed house with my 4 large dogs. It should be difficult. It will never be impossible. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t keep trying to make it more difficult.

Well if this contraption even works, it certainly costs a lot more than a crowbar and 4 large steaks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shplock and SqB
Example, refuse to answer a subpoena. Set of rules apply. Same open your phone, set of rules apply. You do not need to answer the subpoena or open your phone. However, you may spend a good deal of time sitting in jail and money not following the rules. The phone is not unique in this aspect. Our rights are Not unlimited.
Ugh. You are out of your depth.

I may be compelled to answer a subpoena, but I may then invoke my 5th amendment rights to refuse to answer questions which may incriminate me.

Similarly I may invoke my 5th to refuse to unlock my phone or divulge my password.

HOWEVER, this line of reason has nothing to do with the fact that this device is exploiting a vulnerability that needs to be patched. That is the important point here.
 
I’m not too worried, there is no reason that the government would be trying to break into my phone. And either Apple will get one and fix it or criminals wont be able to get ahold of it.
 
It's one or the other. If this company only sells to law enforcement then Apple won't be able to get one. It also means criminals won't be able to get one either. If these are easy for regular people (or criminals) to get, then Apple will also be able to get one and it'll be patched.

You can't have your cake and eat it too (worry that everyone and their dog will be cracking open iPhone AND that Apple won't be able to patch it).

The manufacturer can require purchases to be Law Enforcement Officers. There are already processes in place to control the sale of certain items to LEO (e.g. fully automatic firearms, noise suppressors, etc...) and the same approach could be taken here that would prevent Apple from just ordering one off of Amazon and reverse engineering it. To the contrary, a criminal will have no problem paying someone to walk out of a police station with one of these, Apple will not do that for legal and ethical reasons.

Cake eaten and had. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
I really hate it that Apple makes a public policy of shielding criminals from law enforcement. What a shame. Why have laws? Maybe we should all do whatever we want, jump borders, rob banks, kill people, who cares? As long as the law enforcement can't catch us or convict us, who cares?
 
A Former Apple Security Engineer's Company Will Unlock Your iPhone X—for $15,000

After receiving the documents, Forbes dug into the people behind Grayshift. Although it was difficult to arrive at conclusions, since the company has remained silent and its employees kept as secretive as possible, the publication believes that at least one former Apple security engineer works at the company. In fact, two former security engineers are listed as principals at Grayshift—a title often used to describe owners. Fortune

Interesting, if true.

If true, and depending on what they had access to as "security engineers," there's a trade secrets action I'd hate to be on their end of.
 
Setting response: [Snappin']

First Amendment speech rights are universal, its criminal intent of other separate actions that you've conflated. Stuff like yelling fire in a crowded theater, isn't covered because it's not just speech, it's a deliberate action to physically harm people. Just yelling 'fire' doesn't make anyone fall down a flight a stairs. Coercing the person into direct harm, by most methods, is the part that's illegal.

Also: you're completely wrong. The Constitution is contract from the people granting the government certain specific rights, it says in there, all other rights (not enumerated) belong to the people. The right to privacy... yep, that's the people's. Eatting Tide-pods? Same. Bbq Pokemon? Ditto. Watch another Batman movie even thought you already know its going to be terrible? The same.
Ok so what is the difference between the safe in your house and the phone in your house? The phone has rights of privacy and the safe does not? The safe can be cracked or you could open it. Either way it will be opened. Same with the phone. Reasonable personal rights just not unlimited.
 
Well, whoever tries it on mine will probably get bored way before the thing cracks my passcode.
 
Time to remind everyone posting about Apple protecting our privacy at any cost one word CHINA. Just look at how they followed the law there. Apple never said they weren't cooperating with law enforcement or even blocking their efforts anywhere in the world, quite the opposite. Any cloud data is fair game as an example. In USA their are some pretty severe penalties for disclosing certain portions of anti-terrorism laws that cover far more than just tech sector. All countries have similar laws, so we don't know what we don't know. Deal with that or move to Luddite status.
 
  • Like
Reactions: idunn
Setting response: [Snappin']

First Amendment speech rights are universal, its criminal intent of other separate actions that you've conflated. Stuff like yelling fire in a crowded theater, isn't covered because it's not just speech, it's a deliberate action to physically harm people. Just yelling 'fire' doesn't make anyone fall down a flight a stairs. Coercing the person into direct harm, by most methods, is the part that's illegal.

libel statutes would like a word with you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: npmacuser5
I really hate it that Apple makes a public policy of shielding criminals from law enforcement. What a shame. Why have laws? Maybe we should all do whatever we want, jump borders, rob banks, kill people, who cares? As long as the law enforcement can't catch us or convict us, who cares?

Or, you know, law enforcement could use traditional investigative techniques. Very few crimes are purely electronic.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.