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Greenpeace Rates Apple 4th Worst Eco-Friendly Tech Business, Apple Responds
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no no no no no.
The things that are bad for the environment are also used intensively in the PRODUCTION of materials used in computers, the Mo-Boards, the Processors, anything solid state. Sure the things contain trace amounts of Lead and other crap but they aren't nearly as harmful to the environment as, say MAKING a microprocessor. Thus, I have no idea why on Earth Intel isn't #1 based solely on the sheer volume of byproduct they produce.
And if Greenpeace is going after PC makers, Dell, again just by their VOLUME, dwarfs Apple in toxins used in their products. Apple, however, makes a noticable effort (i.e. free disposal w/a new Mac, iPod) to ensure that people don't just toss their computers in a way that will hurt the environment. Dell has a service as well, but it isn't free.
I think Greenpeace just spun the roulette wheel and it landed in Apple's disfavor.
I care about the environment, but Greenpeace is out of hand. It's the little things like free disposal that make the difference. It might be what keeps some people from slipping pieces of old computers in their trash can week-by-week.
... oh come on, like you've never done that...
-Clive
The things that are bad for the environment are also used intensively in the PRODUCTION of materials used in computers, the Mo-Boards, the Processors, anything solid state. Sure the things contain trace amounts of Lead and other crap but they aren't nearly as harmful to the environment as, say MAKING a microprocessor. Thus, I have no idea why on Earth Intel isn't #1 based solely on the sheer volume of byproduct they produce.
And if Greenpeace is going after PC makers, Dell, again just by their VOLUME, dwarfs Apple in toxins used in their products. Apple, however, makes a noticable effort (i.e. free disposal w/a new Mac, iPod) to ensure that people don't just toss their computers in a way that will hurt the environment. Dell has a service as well, but it isn't free.
I think Greenpeace just spun the roulette wheel and it landed in Apple's disfavor.
I care about the environment, but Greenpeace is out of hand. It's the little things like free disposal that make the difference. It might be what keeps some people from slipping pieces of old computers in their trash can week-by-week.
... oh come on, like you've never done that...
-Clive
Funny, I thought all people had "the right" to believe anything they liked. When did you gain the right to be so imperious and condescending towards others just because their opinion doesn't agree with their own?Spectrum said:
Anyway, I'm sure Apple and a whole load of other companies could do better in regards to environmental issues, but it always seemed to me that Apple was doing a pretty good job. I remember the iPod recycling program in their stores where you could bring in your old iPod and get 10% off a new one. I have also noticed that lately Apple has greatly reduced the amount of packaging on their products. Of course they still need to use styrofoam to keep the computers for getting damaged when they are shipped, but in some cases their packaging is almost half the size it used to be.
So although I'm sure they could do better, I think credit should be given where it is due.
alexf said:
I just gave examples in my post. Groups like this want to stop business and the growth of the American economy. That's their agenda. Why isn't greenpeace over in China or Indian demanding cleaner emissions from their cars/power plants/industry? Ever been to Shanghai? Good luck seeing over 100 feet from the smog. That's on a good day. Those two countries are killing the environment, but it's all Apple's fault according to GP. Give me a break.
Redneck1089 said:
Now that's an appropriate handle you've got there!
One question for you, and all other posters that in some words or other wants Greenpeace to f off...
Do you think that
a) Greenpeace is lying
or
b) it's pretty cool that the human race will soon be extinct?
not sure this is totally accurate...seems like greenpeace is complaining that they don't know what in apple products....so who's to say it does contain the items that Greenpeace is complaining about? Not to mention Greenpeace...can be more than a little over the top at times...not saying Apple's perfect....but we're only seeing one side of the coin here.
darkwing said:
I think you've missed something here. Greenpeace did not, infact, state that Apple is solely responsible for killing the environment.
When China and India begins polluting as much as most western countries do per capita, that's when we're in trouble.
I would guess the industries in India and China are exporting quite a lot of goods to the western world, which makes us morally responsible. To make a real bad analogy, a prostitute with no customers is not a prositute.
Greenpeace probably doesn't have much of a chance to raise awareness on environmental issues in either China, a country were there is no freedom of speech, or India, were a large part of the population is preoccupied with being really, really poor and therefore has no time to spare for macrumors.
You seem really intelligent by the way - you'll probably do great in high school.
I have been a devout mac user for a while now. I get wrapped up in the apple-is-always-right mindset plenty of the time. But greenpeace is a neutral third party evaluating a number of tech companies. While GP may hold companies to a high standard, and judge critically, there is no reason for us to assume that they rated one company in a spearate fashion.
I would like to see a more formal reponse from apple.
I would like to see a more formal reponse from apple.
Get over it.....
The fact is, Apple computers make up well under 8% of the total world computer marketplace. FAR less if you include all the mainframes and minicomputers in that estimate.
If Apple did absolutely *nothing* special to please environmentalists... no recycling programs whatsoever, etc. - it would have relatively little impact on the overall situation. The fact is, they DO take some steps towards being environmentally responsible anyway.
Truthfully, it's a much more serious issue if a *large* computer supplier like Dell scores badly in this area. They pump out MANY more PCs on corporate desktops all over the world. Apple has to showcase it when they can find a business that bought thousands of their computers at a time. For Dell or IBM, they could point to that in several companies in any major American city.
Groups like Greenpeace border on fanatical....
The fact is, Apple computers make up well under 8% of the total world computer marketplace. FAR less if you include all the mainframes and minicomputers in that estimate.
If Apple did absolutely *nothing* special to please environmentalists... no recycling programs whatsoever, etc. - it would have relatively little impact on the overall situation. The fact is, they DO take some steps towards being environmentally responsible anyway.
Truthfully, it's a much more serious issue if a *large* computer supplier like Dell scores badly in this area. They pump out MANY more PCs on corporate desktops all over the world. Apple has to showcase it when they can find a business that bought thousands of their computers at a time. For Dell or IBM, they could point to that in several companies in any major American city.
Groups like Greenpeace border on fanatical....
Fredo Viola said:
sjo said:
Have you read what you just wrote? Who said anything about hunting whales? Eating whale meat? Or being poor?
No one.
Conclusion? You're bigoted.
There's no denying that Greenpeace is further towards "Extremist" than towards "Moderate." That's the jist of what he's saying, and he's right.
-Clive
Fredo Viola said:
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Ultimately by supporting a technology company you are helping the environment. History has already shown that enhancements in technology have almost always had a positive benefit for the environment along with enhancements to quality of life.
For example:
1) Old technolgy cars were seriously inefficient, wasted energy, polluted more, etc. Current technology cars are much, much better. Future technology such as fuel cells are several times more efficient.
2) Tele-comuting has already had a positive effect. Now people are driving less, working at home more.
3) Battery technology has gotten far more efficient with fewer environmentally hazardous materials than older battery tech. New battery tech. such as the new capacitor batteries may be completely chemical free.
4) Modern power plants are far more efficient and environmentally friendly.
and the list goes on in almost every industry where technological improvements have been made.
Buying computers from Apple provides inscentives for Apple to build better faster more efficient computers along with their competitors. These computers are then used in some way to improve almost every other industry.
Spectrum said:
I agree. Trust me I am no fan of GreenPeace's tactics, but what benefit does GreenPeace get out of making this report? And why do so many conservatives like to say that the enviromentalists' are just making this stuff up to get money. ENVIROMENTALISTS' DON'T MAKE SH#$ FOR MONEY! Now, if you think about Big Oil or Chinese sweatshops they've got every reason to say this stuff is untrue because they could lose a lot of money from it.
Oh, and for all the people that make the claim, "destroying the environment is neccessary to keep business profitable", maybe we can go fishing in the Aral Sea sometime and work our differences out. Oh wait we can't!
People with selfish views harm ALL other people and the planet. By contrast, people with selfless views only harm those with selfish views. Thus, the fewer are the selfish, the better the world will become for the majority of the people.Stampyhead said:
aricher said:
### imo, a "reality" of Apple's choosing. They should be a leader in this area! No excuses. Period. Dell? that's embarassing.
Let's cut them some slack....
Come on, people, let's cut Greenpeace some slack, here. Their fanaticism only goes to certain lengths...the reason they protest Apple and other U.S. businesses is because if they actually protested in places where pollution was a major issue (like China), they'd all get shot.
Come on, people, let's cut Greenpeace some slack, here. Their fanaticism only goes to certain lengths...the reason they protest Apple and other U.S. businesses is because if they actually protested in places where pollution was a major issue (like China), they'd all get shot.
It's hip to criticize Apple and iPods
Last week I discovered a magazine based in Toronto (www.digitaljournal.com) They base their reports in the old saying that all tulips must grow the same height. They have been hitting "google's related news" (v.gr. the Sweatshop issue) and getting traffic to their websites. So, maybe the same kind of guru is running Greenpeace.
After what I have read about the enviroment friendly policy in Apple's website, I do not trust that Greenpeace report.
They are a lot of really awful companies in the world. Greenpeace: give me a break!
After 3 hours: Still, meh!
Last week I discovered a magazine based in Toronto (www.digitaljournal.com) They base their reports in the old saying that all tulips must grow the same height. They have been hitting "google's related news" (v.gr. the Sweatshop issue) and getting traffic to their websites. So, maybe the same kind of guru is running Greenpeace.
After what I have read about the enviroment friendly policy in Apple's website, I do not trust that Greenpeace report.
They are a lot of really awful companies in the world. Greenpeace: give me a break!
After 3 hours: Still, meh!
Chupa Chupa said:
Greenpeace is not exactly 'agenda-less'. But that seems sort of paranoid to say that they're clearly trying to kill technology, capitalism and innovation. If they wanted to target Apple, or get a lot of publicity, they surely could have done something more dramatic than put them fourth from the bottom of a list.
And honestly, what do we know about Apple's environmental standards (materials used, manufacturing processes, disposal methods, etc.)? I really doubt that most of you (myself included) are industrial engineers, environmental standards auditors or something. Like some previous replies said - some people can't stand the idea that Apple is not great at something, and will lash out at those who criticize it. I mean, I like Apple's stuff, but it's just a company. Keep an open mind...
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Send my regards to your great-grandchildren will you?crees! said:
Not that this would make a big difference but according to the following Greenpeace's posted report:
http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/greener-electronics-guide.pdf
Apple actually scored 8/27 (or round up to 3/10) instead of 2.7/10 as what the website posted. Fujisu-Simens Rankins is also wrong. Their score is 7/27 (or 2.7/10).
I think they got the two scores mixed up. So this would bring apple up one spot to a tie with Toshiba, setting them in the middle of the pack.
http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/greener-electronics-guide.pdf
Apple actually scored 8/27 (or round up to 3/10) instead of 2.7/10 as what the website posted. Fujisu-Simens Rankins is also wrong. Their score is 7/27 (or 2.7/10).
I think they got the two scores mixed up. So this would bring apple up one spot to a tie with Toshiba, setting them in the middle of the pack.
Wel...
I happen to have taken way too many IE classes (that's industrial engineering not MS's IE - yuck) and I'd have to tell you the things that Greenpeace is complaining about are dwarfed in comparison to the large issue of CRT's and the contents within. Ever look at the default Dell system? They ALL have CRT's. Most of the time you can get a free upgrade to flat panel or some cheap upgrade or something but they still come with CRT's. In my opinion the stuff greenpeace is complaining about "withholds its full list of regulated substances and provides no timelines for eliminating toxic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and no commitment to phasing out all uses of brominated flame retardants (BFRs)." are much lower on the list than the absurd volume of lead being shipped by Dell CRT's. Something else to note - the most likely reason greenpeace is pissed of is becaue of this "withholds its full list of regulated substances." Does that really have anything to do with how environmentally friendly they really are? No - does that make greenpeace mad that they aren't being "respected" by Apple? Yes. Enough to make them 4th worst? Absolutely...
acslater017 said:
I happen to have taken way too many IE classes (that's industrial engineering not MS's IE - yuck) and I'd have to tell you the things that Greenpeace is complaining about are dwarfed in comparison to the large issue of CRT's and the contents within. Ever look at the default Dell system? They ALL have CRT's. Most of the time you can get a free upgrade to flat panel or some cheap upgrade or something but they still come with CRT's. In my opinion the stuff greenpeace is complaining about "withholds its full list of regulated substances and provides no timelines for eliminating toxic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and no commitment to phasing out all uses of brominated flame retardants (BFRs)." are much lower on the list than the absurd volume of lead being shipped by Dell CRT's. Something else to note - the most likely reason greenpeace is pissed of is becaue of this "withholds its full list of regulated substances." Does that really have anything to do with how environmentally friendly they really are? No - does that make greenpeace mad that they aren't being "respected" by Apple? Yes. Enough to make them 4th worst? Absolutely...
acslater017 said:
While I have no information regarding Greenpeace having a grudge against Apple, I would be interested in knowing how Dell managed a higher ranking.
From an outsiders view, I can't really see the difference, envronmentally speaking. I mean,
Apple computers aren't significantly less efficient than Dell computers. I can't image Dell computers being constructed with significantly different materials than Apple.
Both Apple and Dell use the same defective Sony batteries, etc. etc.
So why is Dell near the top and Apple near the bottom?
It sort of does lean one to speculate that maybe someone in Greenpeace is pissed-off at Apple for popularizing the mp3 player and creating even more landfill havoc.
Greenpeace's track record
Can we talk about Greenpeace's environmental track record for a minute?
- They mourn the millions of gallons of gasoline burned by cars, but refuse to support diesel fuel, which, while slightly more polluting than gas, is nearly twice as efficient, meaning collective fuel consumption would be cut dramatically.
- They champion E85, which provides only about 70% of the efficiency of gas and requires nearly a gallon of gas to manufacture per gallon of E85.
- Ditto the above for hydrogen-based fuels.
- They've indirectly caused the deaths of thousands of starving Africans by preventing the development of genetically-engineered foods.
So who is Greenpeace accountable to?
Can we talk about Greenpeace's environmental track record for a minute?
- They mourn the millions of gallons of gasoline burned by cars, but refuse to support diesel fuel, which, while slightly more polluting than gas, is nearly twice as efficient, meaning collective fuel consumption would be cut dramatically.
- They champion E85, which provides only about 70% of the efficiency of gas and requires nearly a gallon of gas to manufacture per gallon of E85.
- Ditto the above for hydrogen-based fuels.
- They've indirectly caused the deaths of thousands of starving Africans by preventing the development of genetically-engineered foods.
So who is Greenpeace accountable to?