Mostly I want better wireless, 12' is too small and 17' is too big, iBook sucks....
I'm not going to pay $3500 for something I don't want.
I'm not going to pay $3500 for something I don't want.
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Greg Joswiak's Feature Presentation
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I'm waiting...
I plan to become a new Mac customer as well as a new college student starting in the fall. I'm with a lot of these other people when they say they are tired of waiting, however, I WILL wait. Luckily (well, not so luckily), I have a very outdated Dell laptop that will suit my needs for a few weeks into college so that I can wait and get the new 15" Al PB. Why am I waiting? Not only will I most likely get the 15" Al PB in September, but it will surely be packaged with Panther, something I'm very excited about.
I no longer consider myself a prospective Apple customer, but a loyal one. I just need to get the computer...
I plan to become a new Mac customer as well as a new college student starting in the fall. I'm with a lot of these other people when they say they are tired of waiting, however, I WILL wait. Luckily (well, not so luckily), I have a very outdated Dell laptop that will suit my needs for a few weeks into college so that I can wait and get the new 15" Al PB. Why am I waiting? Not only will I most likely get the 15" Al PB in September, but it will surely be packaged with Panther, something I'm very excited about.
I no longer consider myself a prospective Apple customer, but a loyal one. I just need to get the computer...
Switcher x3
I was an avid PC user, then I got a great deal on a Powerbook 667 (15", rev B) and I was astounded by MacOS X.
Unfortunately the 15" Pbook and I had a sort of a dysfunctional relationship. It did fit in my backpack (the Kensington saddlebag) but I never treated my backpack with care. Also, the screen hinges were mounted improperly. This resulted in a lot of tension in the Titanium surrounding them, causing microfractures in the case. One day, as I was opening the TiPB, I heard a loud crack. The case had actually cracked. Not a tiny thing, but on the left side of the left hinge the crack went from the edge of the keyboard down the back of the notebook (Through the IR-port) and about two centimeters along the bottom.
I immediately sent it in for repairs (I had two days left on the warranty) and immediately sold it afterwards.
This is why the TiBook is in a dire need for an upgrade. I thought so 6 months ago (when this happened) and I think so now. It seems a lot of TiBooks have these birth defects. An aluminium enclosure with the new hingedesign will alleviate a lot of problems (including heat dissipation issues).
If the new 15" will come out soon, I will switch again. Until then, I have no choice but to keep working on a PC. Hate Windows, but what are you gonna do if the case breaks on the mac?
I was an avid PC user, then I got a great deal on a Powerbook 667 (15", rev B) and I was astounded by MacOS X.
Unfortunately the 15" Pbook and I had a sort of a dysfunctional relationship. It did fit in my backpack (the Kensington saddlebag) but I never treated my backpack with care. Also, the screen hinges were mounted improperly. This resulted in a lot of tension in the Titanium surrounding them, causing microfractures in the case. One day, as I was opening the TiPB, I heard a loud crack. The case had actually cracked. Not a tiny thing, but on the left side of the left hinge the crack went from the edge of the keyboard down the back of the notebook (Through the IR-port) and about two centimeters along the bottom.
I immediately sent it in for repairs (I had two days left on the warranty) and immediately sold it afterwards.
This is why the TiBook is in a dire need for an upgrade. I thought so 6 months ago (when this happened) and I think so now. It seems a lot of TiBooks have these birth defects. An aluminium enclosure with the new hingedesign will alleviate a lot of problems (including heat dissipation issues).
If the new 15" will come out soon, I will switch again. Until then, I have no choice but to keep working on a PC. Hate Windows, but what are you gonna do if the case breaks on the mac?
Re: Re: Another reason for delay
Sounds good. Sign me up too!
-Sigh- has anyone else mentioned how disappointed they were that nothing much came out at MWNY?
Christ, what a terrible day... No new laptop, my ipod crashed, and I got into a fight with my girlfriend. No machine, no music, no missus. Again, terrible day...
BTW Long time no see, Brother.
Sounds good. Sign me up too!
-Sigh- has anyone else mentioned how disappointed they were that nothing much came out at MWNY?
Christ, what a terrible day... No new laptop, my ipod crashed, and I got into a fight with my girlfriend. No machine, no music, no missus. Again, terrible day...BTW Long time no see, Brother.
Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
That's right...and that good reason is the fact that they aren't ready...nothing else. Apple may have attitude sometimes, but business is business and they won't do something that will hurt their ability to make sales or hurt their long term profitability. So why rush something out or make teaser announcements about something that isn't fully ready to go.
Steve said this is the year of the laptop so I expect we will see some important updates to the PB line soon...for those whom the 17 inch laptop wasn't enough...just not right now. MWParis seems like a good bet.
And as for all these 'switchers' Apple is 'losing' because of their delay. The PB line as it is is FAR superior overall to ANYTHING available on the PC side. So these saying they are going to go with Dell, blah, blah, blah....were going to go with Dell anyway, mainly because of price. There is nothing wrong with the present line of PBs, as snahabed said earlier.
So buy one now...or wait...but there will ALWAYS be a bigger, badder computer around the corner....it's an endless race...ENDLESS...
Just enjoy the run
15" better in what? the outdated graphics chipset? the 1ghz cpu? or the sd ram? or the bad wireless reception? the inability to play recent games? or the old bus , and little battery? USB2 anyone?
I'm sure the powerbooks are better then pc laptops, maybe in looks but in core it isn't that much better
It's a small world...
r.e. illumin8's post:
I'm not sure that the 7457 will actually make it into the PowerBook line (or perhaps only briefly, with any luck). Apple and IBM are clearly intent on aggressively scaling the G5 and the only way to do that realistically is to die-shrink to 90nm - something that bloke from IBM (you know, the one that looks like Ned Flanders...) implied was already in sampling.
A 90nm G5 could not only scale to 3+ Gig for the Power Macs but would also facilitate a 1.4-1.8 PowerBook with acceptable heat dissipation (well, so says my (admittedly village) extrapolation of existing 970 stats).
Although this would leave the range nice and neat for most of 2004 (G5 in Pro line, G4 in consumer line), Apple do, as I'm sure we're all aware, exhibit something of a tendency to surprise (both pleasantly and unpleasantly), so who knows, really?
Cheers
Brother Mugga
PS:
Yay - jbomber. Nice to hear from you again, mate.
I was hoping for a new iMac iteration (USB 2.0?) but it looks as if karma has finally woken up to the full implications of my personality.
And, on that theme, I think you need to nip out and adopt a couple of blind kittens or something; man was not built to cope with too many of yesterday's triple whammies.
I would lend you some of my Charisma Carpenter fantasies to tide you over but...er...well, she, er....well she really needs a rest just at the moment.
And a shower.
A long, long shower.
Oh hang on...am I still talking...?
r.e. illumin8's post:
I'm not sure that the 7457 will actually make it into the PowerBook line (or perhaps only briefly, with any luck). Apple and IBM are clearly intent on aggressively scaling the G5 and the only way to do that realistically is to die-shrink to 90nm - something that bloke from IBM (you know, the one that looks like Ned Flanders...) implied was already in sampling.
A 90nm G5 could not only scale to 3+ Gig for the Power Macs but would also facilitate a 1.4-1.8 PowerBook with acceptable heat dissipation (well, so says my (admittedly village) extrapolation of existing 970 stats).
Although this would leave the range nice and neat for most of 2004 (G5 in Pro line, G4 in consumer line), Apple do, as I'm sure we're all aware, exhibit something of a tendency to surprise (both pleasantly and unpleasantly), so who knows, really?
Cheers
Brother Mugga
PS:
Originally posted by jbomber
Christ, what a terrible day... No new laptop, my ipod crashed, and I got into a fight with my girlfriend. No machine, no music, no missus. Again, terrible day...
BTW Long time no see, Brother.
Yay - jbomber. Nice to hear from you again, mate.
I was hoping for a new iMac iteration (USB 2.0?) but it looks as if karma has finally woken up to the full implications of my personality.
And, on that theme, I think you need to nip out and adopt a couple of blind kittens or something; man was not built to cope with too many of yesterday's triple whammies.
I would lend you some of my Charisma Carpenter fantasies to tide you over but...er...well, she, er....well she really needs a rest just at the moment.
And a shower.
A long, long shower.
Oh hang on...am I still talking...?
DOS Lives another day
Well I was ready to get the 17"PB but all the stuff on the net about clicking, whirring and sizzling sounds and other problems put me off. I hoped a new PB would have addressed some of these problems. So now I put my digital camera away and use film. Stick the pics in the album with text from a dot matrix printer via a 8088 xt & dos 3.1. I expressed my concern in an apple shop for not wanting to buy something that will be run out cheaper 1 week after I buy it. The salesperson said quote 'yes it would be foolish to buy now'. well pb12 and 17's I was told can't be got. 3 week wait on the last 12".none left in Australia ??? even imac demo's are being run out, pb17's in some stores down $200, so something smelled like it was cooking. My xt is broken so I'll be off to the next swapmeet to get a XT for $20. More money to spend on lenses, time will tell if i spend the AU$6000+ on pb17. ... if it's too hard, it aint worth doing.
Well I was ready to get the 17"PB but all the stuff on the net about clicking, whirring and sizzling sounds and other problems put me off. I hoped a new PB would have addressed some of these problems. So now I put my digital camera away and use film. Stick the pics in the album with text from a dot matrix printer via a 8088 xt & dos 3.1. I expressed my concern in an apple shop for not wanting to buy something that will be run out cheaper 1 week after I buy it. The salesperson said quote 'yes it would be foolish to buy now'. well pb12 and 17's I was told can't be got. 3 week wait on the last 12".none left in Australia ??? even imac demo's are being run out, pb17's in some stores down $200, so something smelled like it was cooking. My xt is broken so I'll be off to the next swapmeet to get a XT for $20. More money to spend on lenses, time will tell if i spend the AU$6000+ on pb17. ... if it's too hard, it aint worth doing.
Little battery? The 15" has a 5 hour battery life...much more than most of the 'latest and greatest' PC laptops.
Anyway, I said the PowerBook Line, overall, not the 15", is better. I have stated in other posts on this monster thread that the 15" is long in the tooth and needs an update...but even the 15", as 'old' as it is, is superior in it's energy efficiency, industrial design, and Operating System when compared to a Windows laptop.
As someone said...if all you are looking for is the fastest laptop for your money to take to a LAN gaming party, then you aren't gonna go with the Apple anyway because of it's price and lack of ports for those games...
I doubt it. You obviously aren't a Mac user and really didn't want to be one. You're just finding an excuse not to buy one.
12" is an excellent system. I use one every day.
Re: Switcher x3
You admit that you abuse the system and then you switch back claiming the 15" is a bad system? I can't think of many PCs outside of the high end IBM Thinkpads that would not have plastic that can't stand up to being put in a bag that won't hold the system right.
I've bounced a thinkpad from a trunk of a car to the asphalt right on the corner of the display (don't ask) and the thing still worked with only a scuff on the corner. I've done similar things to other brands and none survived.
I've *not* done that to my Apple PB 12" and I have no plans to try that test though.
You admit that you abuse the system and then you switch back claiming the 15" is a bad system? I can't think of many PCs outside of the high end IBM Thinkpads that would not have plastic that can't stand up to being put in a bag that won't hold the system right.
I've bounced a thinkpad from a trunk of a car to the asphalt right on the corner of the display (don't ask) and the thing still worked with only a scuff on the corner. I've done similar things to other brands and none survived.
I've *not* done that to my Apple PB 12" and I have no plans to try that test though.
And, given that most PC laptops claim 3-4 hours of battery life...how low does a PC drop to if you 'crank up the brightness?'...One? Two hours?
Pleassssseeee, indeed.
Re: Re: Switcher x3
No, the system is great and it looks good. The problem is the industrial design aspect. Cases flexing, in this case even breaking, magnetic locks that suddenly stop working, paint flaking... Just seems like defects that need to be remedied.
Btw, after I switched, I abused my PC a whole lot more... It held together, then got stolen.
No, the system is great and it looks good. The problem is the industrial design aspect. Cases flexing, in this case even breaking, magnetic locks that suddenly stop working, paint flaking... Just seems like defects that need to be remedied.
Btw, after I switched, I abused my PC a whole lot more... It held together, then got stolen.
This game is fun...I like playing
The actual battery life you are referring to from the unbiased Anandtech tests was 6 hours and 19 minutes...for the IBM T40p laptop. The tests ranged anywhere from a little under 4 hours for an FIC Centrino to the 6 hour mark for the IBM.
That 6 hour battery life also comes with a whopping (for a PC) price tag of over $3400 just for the base model...and as you said, I'm sure that 6 hours doesn't come from actually using the thing, rrriiiigggghhtt?
That $3400 also doesn't get you a superdrive, and the screen is only 14.1", although the Fire GL card is nice, as is it's weight...just 4.9 lbs.
Who knows, maybe the G5 generation of Macs, both desktop and laptops, will be able to get some Pro level graphics cards now...I hope so.
At any rate the IBM T40p is really more in the 17" PowerBook's neighborhood, don't you think?
You mean this t40 with a price tag of over $3400? Try $1849. And for that price, you don't get a superdrive in the 15" powerbook either. So actually its in the 15" powerbook range, not the 17". And at only $50 more than the 12" powerbook also with a superdrive. Next...
p.s.
Dare I mention that AMD will be releasing 64bit mobile chips on the 22nd of September.
p.s.
Dare I mention that AMD will be releasing 64bit mobile chips on the 22nd of September.
(sigh)...
Now you are changing computers on me...so let's go back to your own test page which you linked us to...
There are 2 IBMs...one is a T40p, which you referred to first as having the 6 hour battery life, and then there is the T40, which you are now using for your price comparison. These are different machines. Different meaning: not the same.
The T40 comes with a 1.5 GHz proc not 1.6 like the T40p...
The T40 also only manages 293 minutes minutes in battery life...and last time I checked, 293 minutes was not 6 hours...it's not even 5 hours...let's see exactly what 293 minutes is, shall we?
293 divided by 60 is...hmmmmm...4.88etc. So the T40 you are now referring to only gets a little under 5 hours battery life...less than a TiBook...but let's continue on...
Again, now I am using the 867MHz TiBook without the SuperDrive since that's what you want to compare to now...both the IBM and the TiBook 867 have 256MB RAM, 32MB video RAM and a 40GB HD. Not to mention that it has NO L3 cache like the TiBook 867. The resolution on the TiBook will be better than the T40...ATI Radeon 9000 - 1280x840 versus ATI Radeon 7500 - 1024x768 and again the T40 only has a 14.1" screen...
And if I use PriceGrabber.com, versus what I have been doing which is giving prices direct from both manufacturers, I can find the 15" 867 TiBook for $1899...so AGAIN not much difference twixt the two...
Dare away...I'd be willing to bet that Apple isn't that far behind, which probably explains the 15" delay we are seeing. And I wonder what the power consumption and heat will be on those bad boys, any idea?
You failed to mention that the Pentium M is easily 2x as fast as your TiBook. Go check out barefeets. Not in MHz, in raw power. "But it doesn't run OS X" thats nice, the entire PC world doesn't run windows either. The reason PCs don't use L3 cache is because they don't have crippled memory busses and can access ram at a decent rate. Save for the Xeons, 0 current PC desktop processors have L3 cache. Saying that PCs don't have L3 cache as a bad thing is like saying somebody is at a disadvantage because they don't need a wheelchair. No offence to the wheelchair using population.
WOW 4.88 hours of normal use compared to 5 hours with the screen off, I can't believe I even tried to say they had more battery life
So lets see 1899 for 9 month old crippled technology or a little more for brand new stuff. I wonder what people will choose. Something else I noticed...look at the iBook 14" top model, not that much cheaper and a whole lot slower than the T40, it makes you wonder what apple is charging so much for in its computers?
I really don't care what you think at this point. You like your 867 and good for you, but you have a bias towards the powerbook as you already have one. This is a mac centered site, and for dual platform users like myself, objectivity on these boards is hard to find.
I doubt you will see a G5 in a powerbook for a while they are too hot and too big. The power dissipation is going to be far above the G4s in there now.
WOW 4.88 hours of normal use compared to 5 hours with the screen off, I can't believe I even tried to say they had more battery life
So lets see 1899 for 9 month old crippled technology or a little more for brand new stuff. I wonder what people will choose. Something else I noticed...look at the iBook 14" top model, not that much cheaper and a whole lot slower than the T40, it makes you wonder what apple is charging so much for in its computers?
I really don't care what you think at this point. You like your 867 and good for you, but you have a bias towards the powerbook as you already have one. This is a mac centered site, and for dual platform users like myself, objectivity on these boards is hard to find.
I doubt you will see a G5 in a powerbook for a while they are too hot and too big. The power dissipation is going to be far above the G4s in there now.
Probably true about the G5 not coming to the PB soon; I expect motorola's new G4 revision instead, probably in Sept. when Panther is released.
What I really want is the ATI 9600 mobile chipset for the "17 powerbook. The Geforce4 440 is OK, but when trying to drive the 3d at fullscreen (1440x900), it gets a bit laggy.
I am a gnu/linux user who has decided to add MacOSX to my lineup (though I will always run gnu/linux on my old 385XD thinkpad, which refuses to die)
I've got nothing but time. There is a bitchin' revision coming soon (as is evidenced by all the bitchin')....
-chomsky
An ATI 9600 mobile would make me very happy, I read the review on Hardocp.com this morning. While I was reading it I thought maybe this is the thing apple is waiting for to release the 15" powerbook and updates to the other two. That would make my day.
Sure it is...
Okay, you got me...not allll of them...just 90% of them. OSX is a better OS than Windows XP, deal with it...XP is just a cheap copy of OSX.
waiiit a minute Windows X P...OS X...Hmmmmm...you don't think Bill would copy something like that do y....nawwwwww....
Sooo, are you saying the Xeons need a 'wheelchair'? I didn't mean lack of L3 cache is a bad thing, I meant it helps the performance of the G4 versus the Centrino you were mentioning...why do the Xeons use it?
Originally posted by ColdZero
WOW 4.88 hours of normal use compared to 5 hours with the screen off, I can't believe I even tried to say they had more battery life
More is more...right? I mean, you like saying the PC is better in everything, no matter how minute the advantage.
You love to hop from model to model to help you try to make your point, don't you?
I know what Apple is charging for. Dependable hardware, a rock solid OS, a company that tries to produce the best usable product it can for it's customers. Products that increase their productivity because they are a joy to use and not a headache. Let's take a survey of which users are happiest with their computers...which enjoy them more.
Well, that hurts ColdZero...it really does.
I don't have a PowerBook. I'm just a pro-Apple Mac user. You're right this is a Mac centered site but I thought I was being objective...this is what we call a debate...you have one side I have another...we've been pelting each other with facts and this is good
...but then you tell me you don't care...ah well.I never said the TiBook would kick the crap out of a more modern PC laptop. I said it was a better, more refined experience overall. And as several folks in my office have them, I have to go by their opinions...and they ALL work dual platform. I, luckily, am not cursed with that
True, true. At the moment the .13 process G5 wouldn't work, but maybe they are farther ahead on the .09 process than they have let on...after all they surprised us with the G5 intro, right?
A guy can dream anyway...
Oook, don't go read it, the numbers aren't going to change if you don't.
Seeing that XP stands for eXPeriance and OS X stands for a number, no I don't think they did. But then again Apple would NNNNEEEEVVVEEER copy anything like contexual menus or anything like that.
Xeons use it because the xeon models that have it are dealing with very very large amounts of data. Far larger than anything that a powerbook or powermac g4 is ever gonna deal with. Can you really compare the architecture of 4 way+ systems to even a dual 1.42? Xeons use L3 to store large pieces of data and instructions that don't fit into its L2 and L1 cache. Here inlies the difference. Xeons have massive bandwidth when compared to a G4, we're talking multiplpe GB/s more. Even with this bandwidth, it is faster to have L3 cache to store large things than spend time going back to main memory. Think about it a 3 ghz xeon has a multiplier of 12x....I think. Anyway, say it has a 533 bus, to go to main memory instead of L2 cache you waste 12 clock cycles just to send out the request.
The G4 on the other hand uses L3 to hide the fact that it has an outdated bus technology. Look at the 12" PB without L3 cache and its performance compared to the 15" with L3. If the G4 had a greater bus bandwidth the need for L3 cache would dissapear. Exibit A....the G5, no L3.
My 386 hardly crashed, it doesn't mean I'm gonna run XP on it. Sorry apple doesn't really care if they produce a fast product or not, they care if they sell computers. When it comes down to it, if they can sell something that isn't that great and still make a profit off of it, they will do it. Do you think in the PC world with its different vendors Apple would really be able to sell a 9 month old laptop for at the most...$400 less than it started with? I mean common I understand that there is R&D and stuff, but really when it comes down to it, most of the parts are the same as PCs why are they charging so much? And please nobody say the "Apple tax" or any of that other "get out of our club" stuff cause thats elitest and ignorant.
As for a rock solid os you can thank Berkely for that. I can run Linux, BSD, BeOS ( I know its a little old) on a PC. I can also run XP, which is actually very stable. If somebody is crashing XP, and I'm talking about word and IE and stuff like that not writing software using beta software etc.., then either you haven't used it and are making stuff up or you shouldn't be using a computer.
That being said I retract my previous comment, having a 9600 Pro in the new powerbook would make my day
I run Word, Access, IE, and Groupwise. XP is anything but stable for me. I guess I shouldn't be using a computer?
I guess not.
I run Word, Access, Dreamweaver, Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, Director, Visual Studio, not to mention any games I play and other random apps. Unless I do something stupid like start killing of random processes in the task manager, XP does not crash on me. I'd send you a pic of my uptime, but I just rebooted yesterday because I installed the new ATI Catalyst 3.6 drivers.
Oh and if you're running XP on some $100 computer that is held together with a paperclip, don't complain if XP crashes.
I run Word, Access, Dreamweaver, Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, Director, Visual Studio, not to mention any games I play and other random apps. Unless I do something stupid like start killing of random processes in the task manager, XP does not crash on me. I'd send you a pic of my uptime, but I just rebooted yesterday because I installed the new ATI Catalyst 3.6 drivers.
Oh and if you're running XP on some $100 computer that is held together with a paperclip, don't complain if XP crashes.
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