Gruber: Apple TV is Sold at Cost, HomePod at Slight Loss

[Anarchy99]

Do you have an Apple TV?

Several: OG AppleTV, jailbroken AppleTV2, Jailbroken AppleTV4 & a AppleTV 4K.

it doesn’t work like IOS.

yes is certainly does, same BSD core OS,similar folder structure, most of the same frameworks and only some that are modified.

when you say doesnt "work like iOS" your only talking about the most superficial level like the FocusEngine and other modified parts of UIKit make it "different" to the average end user.

You show lack of understanding

I dont think I do, I have a CompSci background, I have developed apps for iOS (admittedly thats not my current line of work.) and ive been a mac user for decades I feel confident in my Apple understanding.

when you tried to suggest IOS’s costs are kept down because once upon a time it started partially in macOS.

primarily shared code bases not to mention several fiscal years of development budgets.
either one of those make my statement accurate, both just make it a certainty.

These are all different development efforts now.

yes...
never disputed that, just pointed out once again primarily shared code bases not to mention several fiscal years of development budgets and mostly commodity chips/components makes costs significantly lower.

simplified analogy time:
is it easier to make a cake from scratch or one that is from a box(or started already if you prefer)

of course the answer is from a box/started already.

And cost real dollars.

DARN my illusions of apple using Monopoly money shattered /S

 

[groovyd]

Very cool that you guys are hiding every page behind an extra click now... clever. Bet that took some courage

 

[ipponrg]

Totally agree. They all (HomePod, Sonos, etc] seem to have the same characteristics. Tinny highs paired with bass giving the illusion of a sonically rounded speaker. I find them good for ambient background music but beyond that it gets pretty painful for any extended listening.

100% agreed here as well.

I have never liked Bose or Sonos or comparable speakers. I have found Bose adds some weird artificial shaping to certain sounds, and Sonos is rather tinny.

What I have found is that people that like that V shape-esque sound will not like mid driven speakers. I also don’t trust anyone who says these are great sounding. However if Apple prices these low enough and they delegate Siri to only playing music and nothing else, I would pick up one for that ambient background noise.

 

[FairlyKors]

The problem on cost is not these tertiary products in Apple's ecosystem, it is the primary devices like iPhones and Macs that are starting to get pretty out there.

I can’t remember when a MacBook wasn’t priced “pretty out there.” I agree that their prices are borderline ridiculous sometimes, but these days if Apple pricing things fairly isn’t something I can relate to.

The entry level MacBook Pro 15” can be bought in PC form (with a 4K not 2.6K screen) and the exact same CPU, same RAM, better GPU, etc., for exactly half the price.

Of course Apple provides a lot of intangibles, like a much better case for those components, and a cleaner, simpler (somewhat dumbed down) OS—all things I’m willing to pay for. But where do you draw the line? How many people pay 2X for the Lexus instead of the Toyota? A large enough percentage for Lexus to exist... but Lexus, like Apple, is never going to look “fairly priced” in terms of absolute utility.

 

[ipponrg]

I can’t remember when a MacBook wasn’t priced “pretty out there.” I agree that their prices are borderline ridiculous sometimes, but these days if Apple pricing things fairly isn’t something I can relate to.

The entry level MacBook Pro 15” can be bought in PC form (with a 4K not 2.6K screen) and the exact same CPU, same RAM, better GPU, etc., for exactly half the price.

Of course Apple provides a lot of intangibles, like a much better case for those components, and a cleaner, simpler (somewhat dumbed down) OS—all things I’m willing to pay for. But where do you draw the line? How many people pay 2X for the Lexus instead of the Toyota? A large enough percentage for Lexus to exist... but Lexus, like Apple, is never going to look “fairly priced” in terms of absolute utility.

Of recent years regarding the 15” MacBook Pro, the recent thing that stood out to me was going from non Touch Bar to touchbar was a $200-$300 markup for a similar configuration.

I recall people such as myself being flabbergasted over this when we wanted to upgrade from a pre-2016 mbp

 

[FairlyKors]

Of recent years regarding the 15” MacBook Pro, the recent thing that stood out to me was going from non Touch Bar to touchbar was a $200-$300 markup for a similar configuration.

I recall people such as myself being flabbergasted over this when we wanted to upgrade from a pre-2016 mbp

Yeah, that’s true. I remember something like a $400 bump accompanying that Touch Bar—and many more options at higher price levels too. My example was based on the cheapest 15” laptop without any options. The “value” of a spec’d out $4K 15” plummets to levels that really equate only to luxury goods, which is what a lot of Apple products are now I guess. So, that’s a difference I can agree on. I’m almost certain that more than half of iMac Pros were essentially sold as luxury goods, to people who wanted them but didn’t need the power or specs of the Pro model at all.

Apple is taking advantage of many things, including the growing income inequality—which is what companies do—and perhaps that’s becoming more visible despite Apple not wanting it to. Their sales estimates would be fascinating to look at. Probably easier to understand and just as accurate as anything at the Fed.

 

[MDF314159265]

...and I'm sure there are amazing speakers for $1000 too; what's your point?

Your cranium so far up it you can’t even understand the point, to which even you supported by your own comment?
Context.

 

[Col4bin]

I’ve always questioned Gruber’s objectivity. From what I’ve read it seems that he would literally sell his first born to pump Apple’s tires. So while many here in this forum worship the guy, I have a hard time reading his pre-contrived, PR-driven drivel.

 

[pmore]

Sure, Timmy.

 

[Col4bin]

John and Rene are always fair and honest. Their commentary is always bang on the money. They are completely respected and I regard them as 100% trustworthy.

 

[selfmachine]

If it would work, a Macbook Pro would actually be good value, but the keys break, the screen fades, the USB C port fits loose, and the battery wears out too quickly and doesn't match the claims. The iPads I have are also okay, but all other Apple products are way overpriced. Show me a pc with a good trackpad and I make the jump without looking back.

 

[marco114]

Based on the quantities of scale that Apple has, they likely make a good profit on both. Its unlikely Apple produces anything they can't make a 40% profit off of.

 

[Carnegie]

Based on the quantities of scale that Apple has, they likely make a good profit on both. Its unlikely Apple produces anything they can't make a 40% profit off of.

Even if we’re talking about gross profit (i.e. not considering R&D and SG&A expenses), Apple doesn’t make 40% profit on average on the products it sells, let alone on every product it produces. And if it makes 40% or more gross profit on some things (e.g., iPhones in the aggregate), then it necessarily makes fairly small profits on some other things.

 

[I7guy]

I finally got to try a HomePod today in a non-noisy environment (the Apple Store is not a good place to try it,) and that thing thumps. I was seriously impressed by it.

Still too expensive for me, but I can believe why it costs that.

On my way to an appointment I stopped in the Apple store in the oculus after it opened.

They had two homepods on display, as the store was quiet I got a good sense of them. They are seriously good speakers and I can understand why they cost $350.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Apple hasn't been raising prices if you look at the iphone msrp history and tech vs price. The max has no equivalent phone to compare prices to, so you can't say apple raised the price on the max, because there is no equivalent tech to compare it to. It's a fair statement to say the max is expensive and whether their is enough form over function for the price is up to the individual.

But I don't think apple is going to up it's prices on future phones in more than a minor increment.

The least expensive NEW phone this year, or this year’s entry level phone, is more expensive than last year’s entry level phone. And the 8 series was more expensive than the 7 series.

Don’t be fooled—prices of iPhones are and have been going up.

 

[lec0rsaire]

I love my Apple TV 4k. I bought it on release date. I'm not buying for a second that it costs them $180 to make it when Roku and others distribute products that essentially do the same at a fraction of the costs.

I have a hard time buying the same with the Homepod considering the cost of its competitors. Not to mention that speaker products are notoriously high margin products.

While I don’t think they sell it for cost either, the Apple TV 4K and Siri Remote is simply more expensive than the Roku. You don’t even have to take anything apart. You can feel it. The remote is more expensive with aluminum and glass. The A10X chip and 3GB RAM are also more expensive than what the Roku has inside. The chassis itself probably costs more money.

That’s not to say the Roku is crap because it certainly isn’t.
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Of course Apple provides a lot of intangibles, like a much better case for those components, and a cleaner, simpler (somewhat dumbed down) OS—all things I’m willing to pay for.

And that better case makes all the difference. It’s the difference between a machine lasting a long time and biting the dust prematurely though everyone’s mileage may vary. The clean look of the black logic boards and how well everything is put together also counts. Apple’s presentation is top notch while the competition looks more generic.

I don’t see macOS as dumbed down at all. Sure is it easier to use for computer illiterate folks? Definitely! But macOS has lots of stuff that only the most technical users will be make use of. It also has lots of useful utilities that Windows doesn’t ship with like the WiFi scanner that the average user will most likely never know exists.

 

[Maven1975]

I find this all extremely hard to believe.

This to me stinks of a planted report only to prepare the public for a radically more expensive Apple TV.

The only reason these would be “At cost” would be because of volume dips caused by their own missteps.

Apple, you have the ability to really take a bite of the ever growing gaming market. This is why your current Apple TV is sitting, because you sabotaged it by your ignorance and hindering it by using a slow chip. I would have paid the extra $36 for the A10X you dummies.

I get that you want to be a media company now, but honestly I feel you have a better chance to take a larger sector of the gaming market vs the media market.

And... at much less expense, exposure and ease ROI concerns of your current inverstors.

 

[Khedron]

On my way to an appointment I stopped in the Apple store in the oculus after it opened.

They had two homepods on display, as the store was quiet I got a good sense of them. They are seriously good speakers and I can understand why they cost $350.

Nobody is saying they aren't good speakers. But you can get speakers that sound just as good that cost a lot less, or speakers that cost the same that sound a lot better.

Plus no other speaker manufacturer forces it's users to only play music from the other devices they sell. That lack of customer respect alone puts Apple out of contention for me.

 

[I7guy]

Nobody is saying they aren't good speakers. But you can get speakers that sound just as good that cost a lot less, or speakers that cost the same that sound a lot better.

Plus no other speaker manufacturer forces it's users to only play music from the other devices they sell. That lack of customer respect alone puts Apple out of contention for me.

If one doesn’t like being limited to the Apple ecosystem, Apple is the wrong vendor for a person. You can view it as a lack of respect but Apple has been on a roll lately with their ecosystem accessories.
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The least expensive NEW phone this year, or this year’s entry level phone, is more expensive than last year’s entry level phone. And the 8 series was more expensive than the 7 series.

Don’t be fooled—prices of iPhones are and have been going up.

The 8+ was less expensive than the 7+. So there’s that. Xr also has more tech than the 8+ and Apple bases it’s prices on the tech.

There have been multiple posts supporting the point that apple’s margins haven’t increased. So yes, prices have risen with respect to increased costs of phone manufacturing. It’s not like new phones cost less to develop and manufacturer than old phones.

 

[Sandstorm]

Don't believe for a second that the Apple under the current greed-to-the-extreme leadership would sell anything at a cost, let alone loss.

 

[citysnaps]

Holy smokes! Why are so many people here getting so frothed up and with a major case of the shakes about some tech pundit's conjecture?

And whether Apple sell's a product at cost or not. Who cares? I certainly don't.

In a word, astonishing.

 

[fairuz]

Don't believe for a second that the Apple under the current greed-to-the-extreme leadership would sell anything at a cost, let alone loss.

Selling at a loss is the greediest thing. Cuts out competition. In many contexts it's illegal.

 

[goldbuffalo]

Well they’re pricing something above cost, cause they are making a sh*t load of money.

 

[wigby]

Gruber (whom I like) is a PR arm of Apple. He's on their "A" list. Whatever "rumors" he reveals have received the golden stamp of approval by Apple Markting. Sorry, but I just don't buy it that he has a "secret bird" trickling him secrets. That bird is probably Phil himself.

I don't disagree but that begs the question... Why would Schiller or anyone from Apple tell Gruber that they are selling some products at cost or a loss? Apple investors never like to hear that and it cheapens the Apple luxury brand as well.

 

[Khedron]

If one doesn’t like being limited to the Apple ecosystem, Apple is the wrong vendor for a person.

It is now. It didn't used to be. Apple used to make the best laptops that deserved their premium through quality not branding. They used to make the best accessories like Airport Express that enabled new connectivity, not products like the HomePod that deliberately lock out existing technology (bluetooth).