Gruber: Apple TV is Sold at Cost, HomePod at Slight Loss

[PickUrPoison]

There are thousands of articles on the internet that say otherwise.

People always complain about Apple’s margins. I’m sure 38% sounds like a lot. So greedy.

Samsung is in the mid-40s.

 

[pmau]

People always complain about Apple’s margins. I’m sure 38% sounds like a lot. So greedy. Samsung is in the mid-40s.

The HomePod just sells too few units.
It's all about the scale. You have to keep the production running, but if the units fall short, your margin shrinks.
The HomePod is not a luxury product and people know.
So if Apple cannot make the numbers as they used to, the margin is lower.

 

[ROGmaster]

The chromecast is a lot more stripped down. It doesn’t have an interface, doesn’t have an included remote, doesn’t have voice control without buying another device like a google home mini. It doesn’t have a dedicated App Store with apps built specifically to run on the chromecast. So in that respect the higher price is expected. I think the Apple TV should be compared to something like the fire tv box, or the Nvidia shield tv.

It has Play Store and there quite a few Play Store apps specifically optimized to work with Chromecast.
Apps like: Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, Facebook, Chrome etc.
Honestly Chromecast doesn't need a remote or a "grid of icons" interface . What it already has is what you need: the Google Home app and a phone/device that supports this app and you're good to go.
I have a Chromecast 2 and for the money I payed for it it's above expectations.

 

[eXoticon]

Gruber, what kind of nonsense are you spouting?
If you want to claim that way, the least you can do is provide the numbers.
What an idiot sandwich.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Xr is not the equivalent of u compare it top of the line back thn to top of the line today.

<snip>

The XR—not the XS Max—is today’s equivalent of the 6 Plus, just like the 8 Plus and not the X was the equivalent last year.

You can’t just compare “top of the line” and claim a price increase. That’s like saying the price of the MacBook Pro increased 65% when the top of the line went from $3,799 to $6,199 from 2017 to 2018.

Sure, you can spend $6,199 now—because Apple went from 16GB to 32GB max RAM, and added a 4TB SSD at the top tier instead of just 2 TB max. But the pricing didn’t increase. You can still get the 16GB/2TB for $3,799 in the new model. There’s just a new, higher spec “top of the line” 32GB/4TB model, and it’s $6,199.

 

[Ubuntu]

"If you think it's a problem that these products are so expensive compared to their competition, that too few people buy them, it's not because Apple is charging too much, it's because Apple engineered and designed too good of a product," said Gruber.

‍I like Gruber a lot but this is truly complete nonsense.

 

[I7guy]

It is now. It didn't used to be. Apple used to make the best laptops that deserved their premium through quality not branding. They used to make the best accessories like Airport Express that enabled new connectivity, not products like the HomePod that deliberately lock out existing technology (bluetooth).

I disagree. And the growth under cook shows your sentiment is not universally applicable.

Apple has locked out technology since the jobs era so that’s is nothing new. You are claiming Apple started doing something new that it has been doing for years, prior to Cook. HomePod was meant to provide access to the ecosystem in a different way.

 

[PickUrPoison]

If you only need one WiFi AP thats fine!

Most folks today need a few units and depending on the units location you can have poor signal levels. As an example if you live in a city the other competing WiFi AP's can mess you up! A meshed Router setup allows you to overcome these issues.

Bottom line Apple exited just before it got hot again! With newer higher speed WiFi 802.11ac and newer you need more units closer to get the full data rate.

Mesh networks are great, especially for larger premises, but most users don’t buy them.

Hey I’d like Apple to make WiFi products too. I wish they didn’t discontinue them. But Apple didn’t find it to be a profitable business. One could argue that it would be good for the ecosystem and they should do it anyway, even if they lose money on it.

 

[Shanghaichica]

It has Play Store and there quite a few Play Store apps specifically optimized to work with Chromecast.
Apps like: Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, Facebook, Chrome etc.
Honestly Chromecast doesn't need a remote or a "grid of icons" interface . What it already has is what you need: the Google Home app and a phone/device that supports this app and you're good to go.
I have a Chromecast 2 and for the money I payed for it it's above expectations.

I know your phone or tablet can be used to cast but the inclusion of the dedicated remote increases the price. That was the point I was making.

I have the first and second gen chromecasts and I agree it’s a good device for the price.

 

[metsjetsfan]

Gruber criticized apple on attention to detail with the pixel on the buttons.

 

[Gudi]

When you open up a HomePod, you’ll find most of its weight comes from a big chunk of gold inside. So Gruber is right, they make a slight loss with every sale, because their speakers are too good to be true.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

Is Google listening and recording everything you do worth the second voice?

I have been watching you all day via FT.

 

[ilikewhey]

The XR—not the XS Max—is today’s equivalent of the 6 Plus, just like the 8 Plus and not the X was the equivalent last year.

You can’t just compare “top of the line” and claim a price increase. That’s like saying the price of the MacBook Pro increased 65% when the top of the line went from $3,799 to $6,199 from 2017 to 2018.

Sure, you can spend $6,199 now—because Apple went from 16GB to 32GB max RAM, and added a 4TB SSD at the top tier instead of just 2 TB max. But the pricing didn’t increase. You can still get the 16GB/2TB for $3,799 in the new model. There’s just a new, higher spec “top of the line” 32GB/4TB model, and it’s $6,199.

no idea why you guys quoting me, i'm not the one comparing, go back and read the previous message, i was quoting someone else who made that comparison.

either way you put it, comparing top of the line in 2015/16 to today, its still a hefty increase. people have already voted with their wallet. you might feel justified in the price but from the lack of sales and production cut backs in the news, not many folks want to buy it.

 

[Williesleg]

Apple sells the HomePod at a loss?
Yeah, I'm at a loss to justify buying one.
Maybe they can get cheaper labor than China?

 

[tongxinshe]

I see this said a lot, and it’s not necessarily true in respect to the HomePod. Siri does really well with the HomePod in terms of user commands and it’s responsiveness is actually better than most probably expect. Even the microphone can pick up your voice with Siri from a distance and very few times has it been inaccurate for my usage. Where Siri needs the most improvement, is further development with dictation and deciphering phrases/words, but for in-house commands, Siri does really well.

Since you are still considering them as “commands”, you are well below what normal expect these assistants to be, and you obviously didn’t have real experience with Alexa or Google Assistant. An assistant that is capable of real “conversation” and understand your instructions over conversation is exponentially better than any assistants that can only take well-constructed one-time “commands”.

 

[cashboxz02]

It's just too bad they make it near impossible for devs to make games for Apple TV. With the hardware it has, the device would be an absolute killer with it's potential. They'd make bank off FortNite in-app purchases since everyone would just play it on Apple TV instead of PS4/XBONE. Too bad they crippled the device that could bring them the most amount of money.

 

[Brandhouse]

A speculative opinion for a story about nothing.

 

[44267547]

Since you are still considering them as “commands”, you are well below what normal expect these assistants to be.

And this is where you have the misconception of what the HomePod really is. It’s _not_just an assistant, it’s a music player first, voice assistant second. Alexa and Google are meant to be more assistant related and they are not intended to be on the level of music players as the HomePod is with the audio, and my point by issuing commands to Siri with the HomePod, is that it actually executes those commands very well in terms of what others are saying. Two different things you conflated on.

 

[G5isAlive]

Several: OG AppleTV, jailbroken AppleTV2, Jailbroken AppleTV4 & a AppleTV 4K.



yes is certainly does, same BSD core OS,similar folder structure, most of the same frameworks and only some that are modified.

when you say doesnt "work like iOS" your only talking about the most superficial level like the FocusEngine and other modified parts of UIKit make it "different" to the average end user.


I dont think I do, I have a CompSci background, I have developed apps for iOS (admittedly thats not my current line of work.) and ive been a mac user for decades I feel confident in my Apple understanding.



primarily shared code bases not to mention several fiscal years of development budgets.
either one of those make my statement accurate, both just make it a certainty.


yes...
never disputed that, just pointed out once again primarily shared code bases not to mention several fiscal years of development budgets and mostly commodity chips/components makes costs significantly lower.

simplified analogy time:
is it easier to make a cake from scratch or one that is from a box(or started already if you prefer)

of course the answer is from a box/started already.




DARN my illusions of apple using Monopoly money shattered /S

Me thinketh you doth proresteth too much. So you do know better. My premise remains that your original analysis that the major original work hence cost was only in Mac OS , and so the cost of Apple TV is only the sum of its physical parts is misleading. I thought naive, but you’ve touted your credentials enough to suggest misleading at best

 

[ryanwarsaw]

A speculative opinion for a story about nothing.

The story only has to drive traffic and it has done that in comparison to much more worthwhile stories. Mission accomplished.

 

[PickUrPoison]

no idea why you guys quoting me, i'm not the one comparing, go back and read the previous message, i was quoting someone else who made that comparison.

either way you put it, comparing top of the line in 2015/16 to today, its still a hefty increase. people have already voted with their wallet. you might feel justified in the price but from the lack of sales and production cut backs in the news, not many folks want to buy it.

I’m quoting you because you said “Xr is not the equivalent of u compare it top of the line back thn to top of the line today”, and I’m responding to your statement.

Like I said, you can’t just compare “top of the line” five years ago with “top of the line” now.

• In 2017 Apple had the 8/8 Plus and the X. The 8 Plus—not the X—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when looking at the 2017 lineup.

• In 2018 it’s the XR and XS/XS Max.The XR—not the XS/XS Max—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when comparing to the 2018 lineup.

The 6 Plus was $749/849/949 for 16/64/128GB. The XR is $749/799/899 for 64/128/256GB.

That’s a price cut, not a hefty increase. The fact that Apple introduced an OLED lineup in 2017 isn’t relevant.

And yes, people voted with their wallet. To quote Tim Cook, “Despite iPhone upgrades being lower than we anticipated, our business grew outside of China, including new records in the Americas, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe and our rest of Asia Pacific segment. We had record performance in large markets, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, Spain and Korea.”

Apple doesn’t have a pricing problem in general, Apple has a China macroeconomic problem and a strong dollar problem. Like any well-run company, they’re taking corrective measures to address both challenges.

 

[Bob Sanders]

The entire point of the segment was Gruber criticising Apple for misreading the market and over engineering the Apple TV and (to a lesser extent) the HomePod. Later in the same exchange Moltz mocked the two storage choices on Apple TV and Gruber agreed with him.

I really don't understand what you people are listening to or reading, explicit criticism of Apple is not PR.

 

[gavroche]

Unofficial spokesperson who is paid in bit coin, is the only thing that explains these comments.

Why would anyone care if a company sells a product for profit, loss or at cost. Unless you are trying to justify a paid supporter. It’s a free market let the consumer decide.

This logic makes no sense. If it’s true that no one would care, why would Apple need to have someone put that info out. Wouldn’t change anything.

I agree with one of the previous comments.. too many people with their tinfoil hats on...

 

[ryanwarsaw]

I’m quoting you because you said “Xr is not the equivalent of u compare it top of the line back thn to top of the line today”, and I’m responding to your statement.

Like I said, you can’t just compare “top of the line” five years ago with “top of the line” now.

• In 2017 Apple had the 8/8 Plus and the X. The 8 Plus—not the X—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when looking at the 2017 lineup.

• In 2018 it’s the XR and XS/XS Max.The XR—not the XS/XS Max—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when comparing to the 2018 lineup.

The 6 Plus was $749/849/949 for 16/64/128GB. The XR is $749/799/899 for 64/128/256GB.

That’s a price cut, not a hefty increase. The fact that Apple introduced an OLED lineup in 2017 isn’t relevant.

And yes, people voted with their wallet. To quote Tim Cook, “Despite iPhone upgrades being lower than we anticipated, our business grew outside of China, including new records in the Americas, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe and our rest of Asia Pacific segment. We had record performance in large markets, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, Spain and Korea.”

Apple doesn’t have a pricing problem in general, Apple has a China macroeconomic problem and a strong dollar problem. Like any well-run company, they’re taking corrective measures to address both challenges.

It's a pricing problem if you run a multi-national large cap company and you do not adjust prices internationally. Apple thought they could pull it off one more time. You can call it what you want but it is definitely related to price. The average Chinese teenager doesn't walk in and say wow Apple has a currency fluctuation problem. They walk in and say wow the price is insane.

 

[ilikewhey]

I’m quoting you because you said “Xr is not the equivalent of u compare it top of the line back thn to top of the line today”, and I’m responding to your statement.

Like I said, you can’t just compare “top of the line” five years ago with “top of the line” now.

• In 2017 Apple had the 8/8 Plus and the X. The 8 Plus—not the X—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when looking at the 2017 lineup.

• In 2018 it’s the XR and XS/XS Max.The XR—not the XS/XS Max—is the proper comparison to make to the 6 Plus when comparing to the 2018 lineup.

The 6 Plus was $749/849/949 for 16/64/128GB. The XR is $749/799/899 for 64/128/256GB.

That’s a price cut, not a hefty increase. The fact that Apple introduced an OLED lineup in 2017 isn’t relevant.

And yes, people voted with their wallet. To quote Tim Cook, “Despite iPhone upgrades being lower than we anticipated, our business grew outside of China, including new records in the Americas, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe and our rest of Asia Pacific segment. We had record performance in large markets, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, Spain and Korea.”

Apple doesn’t have a pricing problem in general, Apple has a China macroeconomic problem and a strong dollar problem. Like any well-run company, they’re taking corrective measures to address both challenges.

without actual figures i don't buy that bs one bit, if their figure is so good then they wouldn't have to offer such huge trade in offers both on their us website and european websites.

the XR is not the proper comparison, it's the budget iphone and the only other budget iphone back in the day is the 5c.

also that statement completely contradicts on the reports by 3rd party on japanese market as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/not-so...-price-of-iphone-xr-to-boost-sales-1542896625

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-to-reportedly-cut-iphone-xr-price-in-japan/