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All I have to say is if apple's design team can't come up with a new looking, sleeker, better designed phone (not saying the iPhone 4 is bad) in this much time, some people need fired. The competition is steep for the smartphone market now, no longer can apple merely introduce something similar with upgraded internals, as in first few generations. They know how fast these phones are being conceived of and produced now. They have to bring new designs and features to the market, not because their previous ones are flawed or not accepted, but because they are smart and they know that the main draw for the majority of both new, and previous customers is the aesthetics and feel of the new device, more so than the internals which the majority know very little to nothing about (it runs faster).

Obviously I don't know what apple is up to but I expect a 'new' iPhone in every sense of the word.
 
This is what drives me crazy. Does he not realize that most (not all, but most) people want a bigger screen/a redesign? He's already defending Apple incase we only see a spec update. And the last sentence he wrote is the worst. Just because the iP4 is such a success it doesn't translate into a sign that not evolving the hardware for potentially another 12 months isn't a mistake. It is.

In the fall of 2011 the iPhone needs a hardware refresh. I didn't feel that way in 2009 or even 2010, but I sure as hell do now. And I know a ton of other people agree.

Maybe I misread what John Gruber was saying, but never did he say they weren't evolving the hardware. What I got from it was that he was skeptical about them evolving the design.

For me, I'm still stuck in the 2G/3G/3GS world. I would prefer they increased the screen size, but I'm just so sick of the tapered/curved back. I think the 4 is beautiful, and I hope they evolve that. But, I can understand those who have been stuck in that for a year and half and might want something new.

Regardless, I'm getting the 5 no matter what.
 
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All I have to say is if apple's design team can't come up with a new looking, sleeker, better designed phone (not saying the iPhone 4 is bad) in this much time, some people need fired.

that's an absurd comment. it's not about looks, it's about the internals. they could make a phone look much different, but if it had practically no internal upgrade other than a memory bump, it'd get hammered.

I'd take decent internal upgrades over a new look.
 
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shandyman said:
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All I have to say is if apple's design team can't come up with a new looking, sleeker, better designed phone (not saying the iPhone 4 is bad) in this much time, some people need fired.

that's an absurd comment. it's not about looks, it's about the internals. they could make a phone look much different, but if it had practically no internal upgrade other than a memory bump, it'd get hammered.

I'd take decent internal upgrades over a new look.

I said majority not you. It's mainly about external look/feel, I'm sorry to tell you this.
 
I said majority not you. It's mainly about external look/feel, I'm sorry to tell you this.

lol so like i said, by your standard, a new look, but same internals will make people happy?!?! :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

i said i would take internal upgrades over the look, but so would anyone else with a brain. If someone offered you the same internal phone with a new design or one that had much internal improvements and no external change, you're telling me you'd take the new look?!
 
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I said majority not you. It's mainly about external look/feel, I'm sorry to tell you this.
Which I feel is unfortunate and a superficial way of thinking. It would be like those women who post on Facebook all the sexy photos for some reassurance about themselves or the millions who follow Kim Kardashian on Twitter even if she has no talent.

I do understand the Apple way of thinking and the type of folks they cater to. There is a vanity in it. But that's NOT progress. It would be like a car manufacturer simply updating the looks of a car and never giving it a speed bump.

How long before another better-looking phone comes out in another year? And what does that really fulfill? An ego and insecurity? How does a better designed phone really help you from a practical standpoint and make your life EASIER? I understand a bigger screen and all that. But c'mon? Is tech now becoming strictly a fashion show?

Back in 2007, iPhone was unique because there weren't many all-capacitive touchscreen phones back then. Now competition caught up and perhaps even surpassed Apple both internally and externally that even the next iPhone will just fall under being another face in the crowd. Everybody has a slate design phone and you can only do much with it before it starts looking the same from all the rest.

People want aluminum backing without even thinking it "dents" when dropped and adds more weight to it. Of course, still better than glass shattering.

Don't get me wrong, I want the next iPhone to always look better than the last one and admire great design. Nothing wrong with that. But is that the main basis of upgrading? Yes, I do want more rounded edges and a bigger screen. But I see the hype can be both pointless and shallow if every single year when waiting for the latest iPhone, all I look forward to is a modification of the casing. That is not forward-thinking enough. That is just trying to one-up the competition in looks. And when 32M iPhones are expected to be sold in the 4th quarter, that doesn't make anybody feel that special. Like having the same-looking girlfriend. We are getting to a point with all slate designed phones where you can't change it too much anymore because you can only do so much.

Where is projector? Where is the more advanced augmented reality apps like what I saw with the Sekai Camera back in 2008? Instead of Assistant, why not create a translator app that works like Shazam and SoundHound? Where is the design where you can fold you phone multiple times because it has flexible OLED? I want features that make MY LIFE easier and not just a better design that only fills up my vanity.

Slate after slate after slate with incremental updating in screen size and picking between aluminum that dents, glass that shatters, or plastic that feels cheap and cracks. And basing everything mainly in design, that's progress in tech?
 
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But I see the hype can be both pointless and shallow if every single year when waiting for the latest iPhone, all I look forward to is a modification of the casing.


We are talking about a phone that essentially has the same form factor for over 4 years and counting. I doubt anyone would care about a redesign if that weren't the case. If the iPhone gets a larger screen and some other significant alteration on Tuesday, most people won't be discussing the need/desire for a redesign for the sixth generation iPhone. The iPhone section of MR is filled with people discussing a need for a larger screen because, well, it's due for such an upgrade.

----------

Maybe I misread what John Gruber was saying, but never did he say they weren't evolving the hardware. What I got from it was that he was skeptical about them evolving the design.

For me, I'm still stuck in the 2G/3G/3GS world. I would prefer they increased the screen size, but I'm just so sick of the tapered/curved back. I think the 4 is beautiful, and I hope they evolve that. But, I can understand those who have been stuck in that for a year and half and might want something new.

Regardless, I'm getting the 5 no matter what.

Yes he was skeptical about the design changing, but he and Dan clearly both elluded to the fact that the next iPhone "doesn't need" to change form factor wise. They both complimented the look of the iPhone 4 and essentially were both stating that they'd be happy with just a spec update. That's the part where I wholeheartedly disagree.
 
Gruber said a redesign is unlikely, although I disagree with some of the points he made.
However, John Siracusa on the podcast "Hypercritical" said he would be very surprised if there isn't a redesign. He pointed out how apple needs to use something other than glass for the back.

I really think they are just guessing like we are. With the connections they have you would think they would have more info, but I think they are being kept in the dark this time around.
 
Gruber said a redesign is unlikely, although I disagree with some of the points he made.
However, John Siracusa on the podcast "Hypercritical" said he would be very surprised if there isn't a redesign. He pointed out how apple needs to use something other than glass for the back.

I really think they are just guessing like we are. With the connections they have you would think they would have more info, but I think they are being kept in the dark this time around.

That's an interesting thought. Maybe this time Apple isn't letting even "their" most trusted writers (you know, the ones who always know what's happening) know what's going on.

I truly hope that is what is going on because my God it would kind of suck if they kept the exact same design (and screen size) again for another year. I am mostly just interested in a bigger screen, but a new design would be great.
 
That's an interesting thought. Maybe this time Apple isn't letting even "their" most trusted writers (you know, the ones who always know what's happening) know what's going on.

I truly hope that is what is going on because my God it would kind of suck if they kept the exact same design (and screen size) again for another year. I am mostly just interested in a bigger screen, but a new design would be great.

I agree. It would suck to wait this long for a phone that is almost identical to the iPhone 4. I just can't see them keeping the same antenna (even if improved) and the glass back. Screen size needs to increase to 4 inches which I hope it will.
 
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shandyman said:
I said majority not you. It's mainly about external look/feel, I'm sorry to tell you this.

lol so like i said, by your standard, a new look, but same internals will make people happy?!?! :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

i said i would take internal upgrades over the look, but so would anyone else with a brain. If someone offered you the same internal phone with a new design or one that had much internal improvements and no external change, you're telling me you'd take the new look?!

Of course every new phone has new internals hahahahah. Wow. Anyway, my point is that of course, the majority look at the new look/feel, and just accept the phone will be faster due to enhancements in technology over a year. You're a funny one!
 
Which I feel is unfortunate and a superficial way of thinking. It would be like those women who post on Facebook all the sexy photos for some reassurance about themselves or the millions who follow Kim Kardashian on Twitter even if she has no talent.

I do understand the Apple way of thinking and the type of folks they cater to. There is a vanity in it. But that's NOT progress. It would be like a car manufacturer simply updating the looks of a car and never giving it a speed bump.

How long before another better-looking phone comes out in another year? And what does that really fulfill? An ego and insecurity? How does a better designed phone really help you from a practical standpoint and make your life EASIER? I understand a bigger screen and all that. But c'mon? Is tech now becoming strictly a fashion show?

Back in 2007, iPhone was unique because there weren't many all-capacitive touchscreen phones back then. Now competition caught up and perhaps even surpassed Apple both internally and externally that even the next iPhone will just fall under being another face in the crowd. Everybody has a slate design phone and you can only do much with it before it starts looking the same from all the rest.

People want aluminum backing without even thinking it "dents" when dropped and adds more weight to it. Of course, still better than glass shattering.

Don't get me wrong, I want the next iPhone to always look better than the last one and admire great design. Nothing wrong with that. But is that the main basis of upgrading? Yes, I do want more rounded edges and a bigger screen. But I see the hype can be both pointless and shallow if every single year when waiting for the latest iPhone, all I look forward to is a modification of the casing. That is not forward-thinking enough. That is just trying to one-up the competition in looks. And when 32M iPhones are expected to be sold in the 4th quarter, that doesn't make anybody feel that special. Like having the same-looking girlfriend. We are getting to a point with all slate designed phones where you can't change it too much anymore because you can only do so much.

Where is projector? Where is the more advanced augmented reality apps like what I saw with the Sekai Camera back in 2008? Instead of Assistant, why not create a translator app that works like Shazam and SoundHound? Where is the design where you can fold you phone multiple times because it has flexible OLED? I want features that make MY LIFE easier and not just a better design that only fills up my vanity.

Slate after slate after slate with incremental updating in screen size and picking between aluminum that dents, glass that shatters, or plastic that feels cheap and cracks. And basing everything mainly in design, that's progress in tech?

Well said, mate!
 
Great design + great features + great components?
Too much too ask for?
Not sure why you can't have them all.
 
I really will be shocked if its a redesign. I just have a sinking feeling we are getting an upgraded 4. I will still order one day one regardless because I wanted a white 4 so bad but got tired of waiting so a white 5 that looks like the 4 is fine with me.
 
Gruber said a redesign is unlikely, although I disagree with some of the points he made.
However, John Siracusa on the podcast "Hypercritical" said he would be very surprised if there isn't a redesign. He pointed out how apple needs to use something other than glass for the back.

I really think they are just guessing like we are. With the connections they have you would think they would have more info, but I think they are being kept in the dark this time around.

Thank you for this. I just listened to the episode.

John Siracusa says....

"Insanely shocked." - Glass back on next iPhone (Dan agrees.)

"Very surprised if it doesn't have a new form factor." (Dan says consumers expect that. (What' I've been saying all along.) However Dan also says "I think they have to." Which is NOT what he said with Gruber previously on The Talk Show.)

"They are overdue for a design (redesign)."

"I think it needs to be an all new case. I think it will be an all new case."

"Teardrop might be just for the iPod Touch." (Interesting.)

Clearly I side more with Siracusa on this versus Gruber. Gruber is defending Apple before anything happens. Siracusa instead is essentially stating what I've been saying for a while now on this forum.
 
Thank you for this. I just listened to the episode.

John Siracusa says....

"Insanely shocked." - Glass back on next iPhone (Dan agrees.)

"Very surprised if it doesn't have a new form factor." (Dan says consumers expect that. (What' I've been saying all along.) However Dan also says "I think they have to." Which is NOT what he said with Gruber previously on The Talk Show.)

"They are overdue for a design (redesign)."

"I think it needs to be an all new case. I think it will be an all new case."

"Teardrop might be just for the iPod Touch." (Interesting.)

Clearly I side more with Siracusa on this versus Gruber. Gruber is defending Apple before anything happens. Siracusa instead is essentially stating what I've been saying for a while now on this forum.

I agree. Despite iTunes now listing the 4s, I still think the 5 is happening.
 
yeah, another boneheaded analysis who knows nothing of whats coming on 10.4.2011

And you've done absolutely nothing to convince me that playing a landscape game on a phone where one side of the phone is heavier than the other is a good thing.

Please explain, since you seem to believe in it so much.
 
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Small White Car said:
yeah, another boneheaded analysis who knows nothing of whats coming on 10.4.2011

And you've done absolutely nothing to convince me that playing a landscape game on a phone where one side of the phone is heavier than the other is a good thing.

Please explain, since you seem to believe in it so much.

I love how people think that just because one side of an object is larger, it must be heavier as well. This is such elementary thinking, I'm just glad apple engineers are a lot smarter than this.
 
Thank you for this. I just listened to the episode.

John Siracusa says....

"Insanely shocked." - Glass back on next iPhone (Dan agrees.)

"Very surprised if it doesn't have a new form factor." (Dan says consumers expect that. (What' I've been saying all along.) However Dan also says "I think they have to." Which is NOT what he said with Gruber previously on The Talk Show.)

"They are overdue for a design (redesign)."

"I think it needs to be an all new case. I think it will be an all new case."

"Teardrop might be just for the iPod Touch." (Interesting.)

Clearly I side more with Siracusa on this versus Gruber. Gruber is defending Apple before anything happens. Siracusa instead is essentially stating what I've been saying for a while now on this forum.

Yeah, the only thing is that Siracusa cites no evidence. Gruber on the other hand cites the actual physical evidence we've all seen (for the 4S, while we have seen none for the teardrop 5) and Apple's design doctrine i.e. symmetry and balance. Siracusa just "feels" we need a new phone because the back is glass... wow big deal. Gruber's actually got valid points.
 
Yeah, the only thing is that Siracusa cites no evidence. Gruber on the other hand cites the actual physical evidence we've all seen (for the 4S, while we have seen none for the teardrop 5) and Apple's design doctrine i.e. symmetry and balance. Siracusa just "feels" we need a new phone because the back is glass... wow big deal. Gruber's actually got valid points.

Citing the "evidence" is a weak argument. Sure, I'd love more hints of a redesign, but to think we aren't going to get one because of what the rumor and tech sites haven't found is ridiculous.

I also echo the lack of validation for a teardrop design. But again it could happen. Siracusa however says the iPhone is mostly battery inside. Why make less room for the battery (teardrop/wedge design).

Also Siracusa's case for a new design went beyond the glass back. Come on now.
 
Which I feel is unfortunate and a superficial way of thinking. It would be like those women who post on Facebook all the sexy photos for some reassurance about themselves or the millions who follow Kim Kardashian on Twitter even if she has no talent.

I do understand the Apple way of thinking and the type of folks they cater to. There is a vanity in it. But that's NOT progress. It would be like a car manufacturer simply updating the looks of a car and never giving it a speed bump.

How long before another better-looking phone comes out in another year? And what does that really fulfill? An ego and insecurity? How does a better designed phone really help you from a practical standpoint and make your life EASIER? I understand a bigger screen and all that. But c'mon? Is tech now becoming strictly a fashion show?

Back in 2007, iPhone was unique because there weren't many all-capacitive touchscreen phones back then. Now competition caught up and perhaps even surpassed Apple both internally and externally that even the next iPhone will just fall under being another face in the crowd. Everybody has a slate design phone and you can only do much with it before it starts looking the same from all the rest.

People want aluminum backing without even thinking it "dents" when dropped and adds more weight to it. Of course, still better than glass shattering.

Don't get me wrong, I want the next iPhone to always look better than the last one and admire great design. Nothing wrong with that. But is that the main basis of upgrading? Yes, I do want more rounded edges and a bigger screen. But I see the hype can be both pointless and shallow if every single year when waiting for the latest iPhone, all I look forward to is a modification of the casing. That is not forward-thinking enough. That is just trying to one-up the competition in looks. And when 32M iPhones are expected to be sold in the 4th quarter, that doesn't make anybody feel that special. Like having the same-looking girlfriend. We are getting to a point with all slate designed phones where you can't change it too much anymore because you can only do so much.

Where is projector? Where is the more advanced augmented reality apps like what I saw with the Sekai Camera back in 2008? Instead of Assistant, why not create a translator app that works like Shazam and SoundHound? Where is the design where you can fold you phone multiple times because it has flexible OLED? I want features that make MY LIFE easier and not just a better design that only fills up my vanity.

Slate after slate after slate with incremental updating in screen size and picking between aluminum that dents, glass that shatters, or plastic that feels cheap and cracks. And basing everything mainly in design, that's progress in tech?

In all honesty, if the iPhone 4's design wasn't so bad in the first place. Then not many people would be talking about a redesign, instead it would only be a bigger screen.

I want to also use a device, because it greatly affects my productivity. Hence, I'd like it to be easier for me to hold the device, the iPhone 4 has poor ergonomics. I'd like the smartphone to withstand a fall, which my iPhone 3G has done numerous times, whereas the glass shattering of an iPhone 4 is unacceptable. I'd like a phone which doesn't have an antennegate problem, i'd like a phone which doesn't have proximity sensor issues so i can make proper calls, etc.

As you can see, the exterior design is affecting productivity. These complaints for a redesign aren't just random talk, it has meaning behind it, and it makes sense.
Heck, WSJ said that the iPhone 4 "fell out of favor' by the Apple execs. There's a credible reason for that.

I believe the iPhone 4 is the most beautiful iPhone yet, but i'd prefer to be using a smartphone, not a piece of glass. I'd take performance over looks.

Unfortunately, even if it's an iPhone 4S, i'll be upgrading as my iPhone 3G is nearly dead. I'll still be disappointed, but i plan on selling it for the redesigned iPhone, whether it be iPhone 6 or not.
 
Of course every new phone has new internals hahahahah. Wow. Anyway, my point is that of course, the majority look at the new look/feel, and just accept the phone will be faster due to enhancements in technology over a year. You're a funny one!

That's not what you implied, you were saying that it needs a redesign to feel faster, that's the most absurd and shallowest thing i've heard. i'd take much improved internals and same design than slightly improved internals and a redesign. For starters, theres a lot of evidence that an 8MP lens and sensor would not fit in a thinner phone. So would you take a current design with 8MP camera over redesign with a lower MP camera?

Also, you say that people won't know it's faster and better if there's no redesign? people are not that stupid, you're moreso for thinking that.... People know a 3GS is faster and better than a 3G and they were the same design! even my mum knew and she knows nothing about technology...

I love how people think that just because one side of an object is larger, it must be heavier as well. This is such elementary thinking, I'm just glad apple engineers are a lot smarter than this.

it's not just about the weight, it would not feel right or comfortable, one hand would be more cupped than the other. there's no aesthetical logic to it.
 
Citing the "evidence" is a weak argument. Sure, I'd love more hints of a redesign, but to think we aren't going to get one because of what the rumor and tech sites haven't found is ridiculous.

I also echo the lack of validation for a teardrop design. But again it could happen. Siracusa however says the iPhone is mostly battery inside. Why make less room for the battery (teardrop/wedge design).

Also Siracusa's case for a new design went beyond the glass back. Come on now.

Citing evidence is weak? It's good enough for every branch of science, criminal justice, economics, etc. but not good enough for Apple products? Right, I should expect the teardrop 5 because of all the other reasons I see around here: they just HAVE to, I WANT them to, it's been 16 months, it's Apple guys, the Galaxy S II just came out, they just HAVE to, blah blah third party cases based on single "leaked" blueprint from China blah blah, surprises!, Cook is presenting, the event is on 10/4 and 1 + 0 + 4 = 5 as in iPhone 5, the OS and model wouldn't match, they just HAVE to, there was an icon that looks like a teardrop 5 (or amalgamation of every iOS device), some dudes in Germany created a physical mockup, they just HAVE to... sounds real convincing to me.

I don't listen to Siracusa's show but if he had some more convincing arguments I sure don't see any of them posted around here, just "there can't be another glass back, there simply can't" and "it's been 16 months"...

I may be proven wrong on Tuesday but any rational person looking at the facts would expect what the evidence overwhelmingly suggests... a 4S.
 
And you've done absolutely nothing to convince me that playing a landscape game on a phone where one side of the phone is heavier than the other is a good thing.

Please explain, since you seem to believe in it so much.

theres a lot of other teardrop designs out there, where one side is bulkier than the other. it does not affect the 'balance' of the phone.

even the samsung galaxy s II's aren't fully uniform.
 
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