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Remember the Titan

re:tutor's math

the ability to grasp that much GPGPU power for that little money makes me worry for crypto keys everywhere, first. people have never been able to get supercomputing-level power for so little $$ before.

Hammers can be used for good, such as to hit nails to build shelter to help others (and like GPU-rendered scenes in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire) and, for bad such as to hit heads to exact punishment (and like crypto keys). Tools will be put to good use by the good and bad use by the bad, but it's not the tool that chooses, but the heart behind the hand that wields the tool.

but then I drool over the VFX madness that people like ILM will be able to produce with power like that.
I worked at ILM when the first GPU-rendered scenes were done . . . they did part of the fire for the inferi cave scenes in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire with a few GPU's sitting in some workstations in a corner of the datacenter. by the time I left, a decent part of the datacenter was being repurposed to house PCI enclosures for gpu rendering arrays. i'm sure that trend has only continued since!

Prior to the release of the Titan, Otoy [ http://render.otoy.com ] who owns the Octane renderer brand gave this metric - "Octane Render uses the untapped muscle of the modern GPU compared to traditional, CPU based engines. With current GPU technology, Octane Render can produce final images 10 to 50 times faster than CPU unbiased render engines, or even more with multiple GPUs (depending on the GPU(s) used). Octane Render provides a true WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) rendering environment that allows the user to focus on creating stunning images without bouncing back and forth between a modeling view and then waiting for a render to complete. The viewport on the screen IS the final render. Any changes to the scene are instantly updated on the screen allowing the user to tweak any setting and know immediately how the result looks." Now, with the Titan having been released, that multiple gets only greater; so I agree with you that what you saw at ILM will only increase, except that if Intel can gain traction with the Xeon Phi and drops the current price of the Phi by at least half (a 60% drop would make it about even with Titan), then there might be a period of time where there's a mixture of Phis and Titans doing ILM's bidding. That's the worst that I'd hope for. The worst that could happen is set forth below.

We're seeing the makings/true beginning of an across the boards - seemingly World War - or, at least, a Card War with Intel vs. Nvidia, and with the 3rd (weaker) axis AMD vs. Nvidia. Intel and AMD also have CPUs in their arsenals, but Nvidia has no CPUs. CUDA itself, then later the GTX 400 and 500 series, were the meaningful opening shots that got Intel interested in battling, with it's longterm CPU foe - AMD, against Nvidia. Next, Nvidia shot the GTX 600 series at AMD. Then Intel fired back at Nvidia with the Xeon Phi. Now Nvidia has fired against AMD with the Titan - " The technology that powers the world's fastest supercomputer is now redefining the PC gaming experience. Introducing GeForce® GTX TITAN. Bring the powerful NVIDIA® Kepler™ architecture technology that drives the Oak Ridge National Laboratory's Titan supercomputer to your next gaming experience," but that shot was also directed at Intel because Titan comes with the added bonus that Titan just doesn't only do games (like the CUDA hobbled GTX 600 series) but also does other compute tasks with great might. While it's true that Titan does not compute as precisely as the Tesla line does for things that require more pinpoint exactness (Nvidia had to protect those assets for it's higher priced products), but Titan does compute a whole lot faster than any GTX 500 or 600 series card and Titan has 6 Gb of onboard ram to boot. Whereas Nvidia seems to have developed the Titan weapon wisely to do battle with both of its foes (AMD has no similar two prong artillery because Open CL development is stagnant and Xeon Phi is still in its infancy, but Xeon Phi's having the advantage of being able to be adopted and adapted easily and quickly} means that this war will appear to take full shape rapidly. We, the consumers of the cards, will win as this war is being fought and more so as it intensifies; but I shudder to think what will happen if Intel prevails completely. Competition brought us the Titan, but a total victory for Intel will likely bring only stagnation and higher prices. Intel's next weapon will likely be a tie-in between a GPU oriented CPU, namely Haswell, and Xeon Phi - for a one-two punch. Will Nvidia bend? I hope not. I hope that Nvidia has the smarts to be currently making it's next weapon of mass destruction even more compute intensive, price competitive and code modularized and popularized so that it can be more quickly and broadly adopted and adapted rapidly. Maybe, Nvidia needs to take courses in "Apple 101 - How to Come Back from Near Death" and "Apple 102 - Making Coding for Your Developers Dead Simple."
 
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Hi,

Congratulations on the new card.
Actually, there is easier way to handle the power.
Here is the link.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1514609/

You gotta be kidding. Looks like something you'd buy off the back of Mr. Haney's truck, and it probably will work just as well, and last just as long. It's a Hoyt Clagwell GPU power adapter mod. NOW it's time to bring out the popcorn.
 
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Glad to hear that 10.8.4 will enable Titan.

Got a Netstor 255A and 4 Titans on the way.

Will report back.
 
You gotta be kidding. Looks like something you'd buy off the back of Mr. Haney's truck, and it probably will work just as well, and last just as long. It's a Hoyt Clagwell GPU power adapter mod. NOW it's time to bring out the popcorn.

It's just connecting 2 grounds it needn't be fancy or sophisticated.
 
It's just connecting 2 grounds it needn't be fancy or sophisticated.

True. Even a crudely designed device can achieve spectacular desired, or undesired, effects. In this case, you can very inexpensively "trick" a GPU and easily risk melting something on the motherboard. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Most, if not all, of the other common Mac Pro upgrades don't carry any risk to the hardware, or the software IF you keep a backup. An 80 USD supplemental PSU is cheap insurance to protect your Pro and provides peace of mind, not to mention more than enough juice.
 
True. Even a crudely designed device can achieve spectacular desired, or undesired, effects. In this case, you can very inexpensively "trick" a GPU and easily risk melting something on the motherboard. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Most, if not all, of the other common Mac Pro upgrades don't carry any risk to the hardware, or the software IF you keep a backup. An 80 USD supplemental PSU is cheap insurance to protect your Pro and provides peace of mind, not to mention more than enough juice.

Thats it..

The rest is the debate that we needn't have all over again. How many times have we discussed 6 to 8 pin converters and watts..we've all come down on on our respective side and no minds are being changed.
 
It's just connecting 2 grounds it needn't be fancy or sophisticated.

DO you really know what that means?

2 more grounds to carry more juice means that all of the + pins are carrying more juice as well.

When you are used to working on cars, everything is a ground and it seems trivial. Need something grounded? RUn a wire to some metal and screw it in. But it actually means something in computers and electronics. The power doesn't magically appear or disappear. It runs in a closed loop. More coming in means more coming in and more going through the loop.

Neither energy or matter are ever created or destroyed. It has to come from somewhere. Things close to the 225 Watts are probably fine, but the further you get from there, the more risk.

My point being that the phrase "It's just 2 more grounds" attempting to minimize this is meaningless.
 
DO you really know what that means?

2 more grounds to carry more juice means that all of the + pins are carrying more juice as well.

When you are used to working on cars, everything is a ground and it seems trivial. Need something grounded? RUn a wire to some metal and screw it in. But it actually means something in computers and electronics. The power doesn't magically appear or disappear. It runs in a closed loop. More coming in means more coming in and more going through the loop.

Neither energy or matter are ever created or destroyed. It has to come from somewhere. Things close to the 225 Watts are probably fine, but the further you get from there, the more risk.

My point being that the phrase "It's just 2 more grounds" attempting to minimize this is meaningless.

I thought I was being clear..dude connected 2 grounds with a piece of wire, said piece of wire was criticized. The piece of wire connects the 2 grounds with aplomb and be invisible with the six pin connected. I care not one iota about the rest of the watt debate nor was I commenting on it.
 
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I thought I was being clear..dude connected 2 grounds with a piece of wire, said piece of wire was criticized. The piece of wire connects the 2 grounds with aplomb and be invisible with the six pin connected. I care not one iota about the rest of the watt debate nor was I commenting on it.

If you are under forty or so, and/or not from the USA, and were not a Green Acres TV show fan, you probably didn't get the gist of my comment. I wasn't just criticizing the looks, but the entire concept, what it does, may do sooner or later, its general reliability and repercussions.
 
The problem with these posts is simply the cavalier attitude.

I can probably drive to the grocery store at night with my lights off and nothing will happen. I can probably do it a bunch of times without a problem. That doesn't make it a best practice, or even a good idea.
 
The problem with these posts is simply the cavalier attitude.

I can probably drive to the grocery store at night with my lights off and nothing will happen. I can probably do it a bunch of times without a problem. That doesn't make it a best practice, or even a good idea.

Hey guys,

It's really not that big deal. If your Mac Pro is solely your own, i.e.. not a corporate property. You are not potentially damaging your boss' business by putting a simple piece of wire.

What I see the way is neat, easy, and effective in your Mac Pro case. No debate is needed because people who will do it see the point. For those don't, they know what that is....
 
Hey guys,

It's really not that big deal. If your Mac Pro is solely your own, i.e.. not a corporate property. You are not potentially damaging your boss' business by putting a simple piece of wire.

What I see the way is neat, easy, and effective in your Mac Pro case. No debate is needed because people who will do it see the point. For those don't, they know what that is....

Yours is the cavalier attitude the poster above is writing about. Not a big deal? Then give me the five grand you're willing to risk if you cook a box. Don't tell me it won't happen, because I've had it happen. I am the business, own the corporate property and I am my own boss. I and a great number of others here derive a significant portion of their livelihood from a Mac Pro. So, yes, if I stick of piece of wire in a GPU to purposely circumvent not only a manufacturer's specification, but a SAFETY feature, then I'm not only risking the cost of repair of the Mac, and lost income while one of my main computers is down, but the home/studio/office/lab, etc. that burns down with it on a overnight render. Now, toss in the potential for serious injury or loss of life and the inevitable lawsuits and suffering that follow. Still worth it?
 
Yours is the cavalier attitude the poster above is writing about. Not a big deal? Then give me the five grand you're willing to risk if you cook a box. Don't tell me it won't happen, because I've had it happen. I am the business, own the corporate property and I am my own boss. I and a great number of others here derive a significant portion of their livelihood from a Mac Pro. So, yes, if I stick of piece of wire in a GPU to purposely circumvent not only a manufacturer's specification, but a SAFETY feature, then I'm not only risking the cost of repair of the Mac, and lost income while one of my main computers is down, but the home/studio/office/lab, etc. that burns down with it on a overnight render. Now, toss in the potential for serious injury or loss of life and the inevitable lawsuits and suffering that follow. Still worth it?

Most will say yes because the dramatic things just aren't going to happen. Might he need to repair/replace his computer, sure. Might he lose some income, sure. No skin off his back nor yours i.e. it's just not a big deal this forum is about 50/50 on the power issue no one yet has reported problems on either side..The Netkas dude was an idiot though.
 
Most will say yes because the dramatic things just aren't going to happen. Might he need to repair/replace his computer, sure. Might he lose some income, sure. No skin off his back nor yours i.e. it's just not a big deal this forum is about 50/50 on the power issue no one yet has reported problems on either side..The Netkas dude was an idiot though.

Dramatic things are not going to happen? They happen all the time. In fact that's exactly what a number of my projects on the Mac Pro are: HD audiovisual depiction of "dramatic" things that no one thought would ever happen. They did...in spectacular fashion...with dreadful results.

PS - Years ago, during an overnight render on a PC at home, while I was admittedly trying to force a 1080p HD video elephant through a Pentium based straw, I awoke to a temp alarm I didn't even know it had. I unplugged it before something more "dramatic" happened. I've seen the inside of a case absolutely scorched too...for the very reasons being debated.
 
Dramatic things are not going to happen? They happen all the time. In fact that's exactly what a number of my projects on the Mac Pro are: HD audiovisual depiction of "dramatic" things that no one thought would ever happen. They did...in spectacular fashion...with dreadful results.

PS - Years ago, during an overnight render on a PC at home, while I was admittedly trying to force a 1080p HD video elephant through a Pentium based straw, I awoke to a temp alarm I didn't even know it had. I unplugged it before something more "dramatic" happened. I've seen the inside of a case absolutely scorched too...for the very reasons being debated.

And I could walk out of my house tomorrow and get hit by a bus..

Your mac is not going to burst into flames because you're using an extra 50W the tracers will separate and the wires will melt first. The Netkas dude didn't have fire and he was trying.

PS yeas ago I was in Afghanistan and on of my soldiers was taking a number two when a cache of explosives detonated he was blown out of his "seated" position. What does this have to do with the first point nothing, thats about as much as your PS has to do with your first point..
 
PS yeas ago I was in Afghanistan and on of my soldiers was taking a number two when a cache of explosives detonated he was blown out of his "seated" position. What does this have to do with the first point nothing, thats about as much as your PS has to do with your first point..

Well since we've devolved into speculating about the absurdly obvious, are you sure that the above-mentioned "dramatic" incident wasn't initially caused by an inadvertent large amount of flatulence escaping while he was smoking in the latrine? :D
 
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When I use my power mac (with a sub 17 5Watt GPU) and I am playing a game, or doing some thing that stresses the graphics card, I shut down and connect the GPU's power cable to the PSU of an AMD pc that is next to the G5 and then boot back up again.
And that is for less than 175 Watts.
When I hear people trying to put over 225 watts on one power cable and motherboard traces, I think they either are clueless, careless, or crazy.
You are just looking to fry your motherboard.
Is it too hard to spend 30$ and get an external PSU (or are people too lazy)?
And after people get their system to boot on unofficial power (before they fry their motherboard), they overclock it!!!
And then when it gets unstable they overvolt it!!! And then overclock it some more!
 
Question in regards to the Titan...

Have heard mention of support under 10.8.4

How far reaching is this support and what are the issues with it?

If I went out bought a Titan and powered it correctly + installed 10.8.4 on my Mac Pro 4,1 would it function other than the boot screen or is it severely crippled in some way?
 
Yours is the cavalier attitude the poster above is writing about. Not a big deal? Then give me the five grand you're willing to risk if you cook a box. Don't tell me it won't happen, because I've had it happen. I am the business, own the corporate property and I am my own boss. I and a great number of others here derive a significant portion of their livelihood from a Mac Pro. So, yes, if I stick of piece of wire in a GPU to purposely circumvent not only a manufacturer's specification, but a SAFETY feature, then I'm not only risking the cost of repair of the Mac, and lost income while one of my main computers is down, but the home/studio/office/lab, etc. that burns down with it on a overnight render. Now, toss in the potential for serious injury or loss of life and the inevitable lawsuits and suffering that follow. Still worth it?

Will you allow me LOL..! You are exactly what I said one of those better not to use the simple piece of wire. Because you know what you just said. Did I said it wrong? LOL. I'M just one of those not like you who own a serious business. For you, I wouldn't recommend you do the trick.
 
Question in regards to the Titan...

Have heard mention of support under 10.8.4

How far reaching is this support and what are the issues with it?

If I went out bought a Titan and powered it correctly + installed 10.8.4 on my Mac Pro 4,1 would it function other than the boot screen or is it severely crippled in some way?

I run my Titans on Windows systems so I don't know for sure what 10.8.4 brings to the Titan in terms of support, other issues and a boot screen. However, I would suspect that the Titan will be crippled greatly, but only in this relatively limited respect, when running on a Mac Pro in OSX mode (Bootcamp may be totally different) because the Titan probably will be missing access to Nvidia Control Panel which allows you to increase double precision floating point peak performance in CUDA by a whopping 6.5x or 650%. Moreover, by missing access to software like EVGA's Precision X ver. 4.0 you'd also be missing out on the ability to increase both single and double precision floating point peak performance by another 17% (1.17 x 650% = 7.91 or 791%). That you would be missing out on an improvement of double precision performance total of 791% and 17% for single precision alone are amounts that I would consider to be severely crippling if you are looking for the card to do CUDA chores. However, even with that said, the factory double precision performance is as much as that of a top end GTX 580 and the single precision performance is greater than that of a GTX 580 and even greater than that of the top end GTX 690. So when I speak of crippled, it only relative to the full potential of a Titan (see post #564 at https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1333421/ ) which surpasses the factory single and double precision floating point peaks of the current top end $4.5k+ Tesla card - the K20X. The Titan's factory stats are still, however, nothing to be ashamed of.
 
Dollars to donuts there will be a Titan for Mac as soon as the Mac Pro 6,1 is released and it will have ample power, plus full CUDA and PCIe 3 support.
If you can afford to spend $1000+ on a GPU to make a living on Mac Pro, you can afford the 6,1 too.
 
Well since we've devolved into speculating about the absurdly obvious, are you sure that the above-mentioned "dramatic" incident wasn't initially caused by an inadvertent large amount of flatulence escaping while he was smoking in the latrine? :D


While MRE's do fun things to the GI system we were out on mission so no latrine or smoking..It was rather humorous to see though..:D
 
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