Guns and other things...

[BoyBach]

Should threads about recommending a gun purchase take place on the MacRumors forums or should they take place on a more appropriate site/forum, such as the NRA site or hunting/shooting sites?

If they do take place on MacRumors should people get upset by negative comments about such threads and/or be surprised by such responses when it is such an emotive topic?

I appreciate that it is perfectly legal to own a gun in the US and don't want to start a debate about the rights or wrongs of the Second Amendment, but one simply about the appropriateness of such discussions on these forums.

Should they take place here? Should they be edited/censored?

 

[calculus]

Personally I don't want to see any more 'what weapon should I buy' discussions here but I accept that some people do. I think that one indicator of 'grown up thinking' is the ability to make a distinction between what you don't approve of and what you would ban, so if people want to discuss these matters then fine. However they really should not be surprised that when they do that some people will find the discussion offensive and might feel that it is OK to say so. It really doesn't hurt anyone to be disagreed with. In fact there are many topics where this seems 'acceptable'. When it comes to guns though it seems that special provisions apply. I wonder why that is?

 

[lord patton]

But surely there's a difference between debating the legality or appropriateness of guns, and discussing the choice of gun. Why should one discussion have to mix with the other?

If you don't want to read about gun-purchasing decisions, don't read that thread. If you want to discuss the wisdom of allowing gun ownership amongst private citizens, start a thread.

 

[bigandy]

I think given this is an international forum, that the place of guns in cultures worldwide should be considered.

For example, guns aren't legal here in the UK, and generally there is a very negative attitude towards them outside of a cinema.

I live only a few minutes from Dunblane, and share university classes with many people who were kids at that very school. In this area especially, people couldn't think of a worse thing than having guns available to buy and keep at home.

Of course, there's the option to 'just not read it', but if it's something that offends you enough just seeing it, then should it really be here at all?

MacRumors is an excellent place for open discussion of many, many topics, and while I'd have no trouble with a topic discussing whether firearms should be banned outright, I don't think there's any need whatsoever for topics discussing which Smith & Wesson or Glock people want.

 

[lord patton]

Of course, there's the option to 'just not read it', but if it's something that offends you enough just seeing it, then should it really be here at all?

Yes.

This isn't even a close call! No one is showing porno to your kids. No one is shouting fire in your theater. Hell, no one's even drawing caricatures of, err, you know who.

With all respect, it doesn't matter if you're offended.

 

[Sesshi]

I think it sits in that grey area - as accepted as it might be in the US - of which questions such as "what porno DVD should I buy?" "what blowtorch should I buy? and what fuel burns the hottest?" "what is the best way to use a voodoo caricature doll to freak out your enemy?" etc falls into.

It's technically perfectly OK to ask those questions, OK to discuss in certain areas but it's not to everyone's taste, and everyone should use appropriate judgement and sensitivity in posting in those threads. IMO.

 

[macdaddy121]

I think threads posing questions as "which gun should I buy" should be treated similar to the marketplace threads.......meaning, if you are not interested in buying the for sale item then don't post. In other words, if you are not interested in helping the OP make a decision than there is no reason to post in the thread or try and debate wether purchasing guns should be legal or illegal. Just my opinion though.

 

[bousozoku]

I think it sits in that grey area - as accepted as it might be in the US - of which questions such as "what porno DVD should I buy?" "what blowtorch should I buy? and what fuel burns the hottest?" "what is the best way to use a voodoo caricature doll to freak out your enemy?" etc falls into.

It's technically perfectly OK to ask those questions, OK to discuss in certain areas but it's not to everyone's taste, and everyone should use appropriate judgement and sensitivity in posting in those threads. IMO.

This is the thing for me. Many threads have been started that aren't to my taste but as long as they're not causing problems for other people, I won't involve myself, except for moderating duties.

In the "What gun should I buy?" thread, I deleted some anti-gun posts because they were off-topic. Consider that I don't approve of guns but that the thread wasn't a debate about whether we should have guns or not.

It's certainly more interesting when the thread is something everyone wants but that won't be the case most of the time. Notice all the negative comments in Apple news threads.

Read what you want and ignore the rest. If something is truly objectionable, send a report. If enough people report it and we see a problem, we will do something about it.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Should threads about recommending a gun purchase take place on the MacRumors forums or should they take place on a more appropriate site/forum, such as the NRA site or hunting/shooting sites?

Should people asking advice regarding purchasing cars or TVs be told to go to a car or home theater enthusiast site? If one of our gay/lesbian members is looking for relationship advice I don't think anyone should tell them to take it to a gay/lesbian forum. Do you?

I'm not a proponent of drug use, but if someone starts a thread asking about the best places to go in Amsterdam I don't think that's the place to go on an anti-drug rant.

If one feels that way they should start their own thread w/something like, "So I saw so-and-so's thread and it got me thinking..." I just think it's rude to turn a thread political when the intent of the thread was definitely not political.

If they do take place on MacRumors should people get upset by negative comments about such threads and/or be surprised by such responses when it is such an emotive topic?

Why are you surprised when people get irritated by someone hijacking and/or trolling in a thread (regardless of the topic)?

I appreciate that it is perfectly legal to own a gun in the US and don't want to start a debate about the rights or wrongs of the Second Amendment, but one simply about the appropriateness of such discussions on these forums.

I don't see what's inappropriate about someone asking for advice regarding competitive target shooting.


Lethal

 

[AoWolf]

I think given this is an international forum, that the place of guns in cultures worldwide should be considered.

For example, guns aren't legal here in the UK, and generally there is a very negative attitude towards them outside of a cinema.

This argument can be flipped. For example I live in the US, and generally there is a very positive attitude towards guns.

Respectively I do understand your point of view, but I wouldn't be willing to change my feelings on the issue. You can't expect people to not post about a heavily disagreed because it may offend someone.

 

[EricNau]

I'm not a proponent of drug use, but if someone starts a thread asking about the best places to go in Amsterdam I don't think that's the place to go on an anti-drug rant.

I disagree - if the activity is illegal in the US, the topic should not be allowed in this forum, regardless of the poster's location worldwide.


I'm against such a gun thread for one reason: it will attract too much trouble, and it's not worth the Mod's time or efforts to keep up with a thread that is going to be a constant problem.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I disagree - if the activity is illegal in the US, the topic should not be allowed in this forum, regardless of the poster's location worldwide.

I think it depends on the subject and the context of the discussion. For example, if one of our English friends talks about walking down the street w/a beer in his hand should the thread be locked because the US has open container laws and England doesn't?

I'm pretty sure woman can still walk around topless in Cananda, but I don't think any threads on the subject should be banned because of the laws in the US. In fact, I think threads on the subject (w/pix) should be encouraged.

What about all the threads letting people know how to space shift and/or time shift their music and DVDs (which is legal) even though it most likely means breaking/circumventing some sort of copy protection (which is illegal)?

Lots of gray area which makes blanket statements inappropriate, IMO.

I know that this is private forum and therefore "free speech" is a privilege, not a right, but I think the mods (and the community in general) do a pretty good job of keeping the ship upright.


Lethal

 

[carbonmotion]

i like to make a case for myself here...

I'm refering to guns in terms of competition shooting, which is a big olympics sport, among others. In this context, the gun is used in a completely non violent fasion and should not affect anyone's feelings about gun control (which applies to the use of guns as a weapon).

Just as you can ask for what baseball bat or what golf club (things that are both weapons and sporting equipment) you should be able to ask what kind of guns to buy.

Thanks,

CM

 

[sushi]

Read what you want and ignore the rest. If something is truly objectionable, send a report.

Well put!

As for a gun thread, personally I come to MR to discuss technology and Apple related products. While I love, own and use guns, I really don't seen MR as a good venue for this type of discussion. There are other places that I would go for that type of discussion.

To quote bousozoku , "read what you want and ignore the rest." Nothing requires anybody from having to read a post/thread. We each choose to read what we want.

 

[bousozoku]

...
I'm against such a gun thread for one reason: it will attract too much trouble, and it's not worth the Mod's time or efforts to keep up with a thread that is going to be a constant problem.

If we all thought about the gun thread the way you are, we'd close the Political forum very quickly and probably a lot of the others, including some of the Mac forums because they attract too much trouble.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Another gun owner here...

This forum tends to to be very liberal in allowing non-Mac related discussion, and most of the regulars here are, in my opinion, very open-minded and thoughtful individuals. We generally behave like adults and can have constructive, interesting discussions concerning difficult or controversial topics.

I think it would be discriminatory and wrong to ban firearms related discussion. Period. If you aren't interested or don't like it then ignore it, as Bousozoku said.

At the same time I agree with Sushi that I generally discuss firearms elsewhere on the 'Net. Still, I don't see any reason why this subject should be taboo.

 

[EricNau]

If we all thought about the gun thread the way you are, we'd close the Political forum very quickly...

What a good idea!

 

[sushi]

At the same time I agree with Sushi that I generally discuss firearms elsewhere on the 'Net. Still, I don't see any reason why this subject should be taboo.

Just to clarify, I too do not see any reason why firearm shooting, maintenance, purchase, selling, accessorizing, etc. cannot be discussed on MR.

From what I've seen, almost anything is permissible on MR as long as it is done in good taste.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Still, I don't see any reason why this subject should be taboo.

Neither do I. And I'm so anti-gun ownership that it's not funny.

As personally repellent as it is to me, it's a legitimate pursuit in parts of the world and a legitimate subject to discuss. Why people feel compelled to clutter a thread with comments on something they're not interested in is beyond me.

 

[sushi]

Why people feel compelled to clutter a thread with comments on something they're not interested in is beyond me.

I too find this behavior interesting.

 

[Queso]

I disagree - if the activity is illegal in the US, the topic should not be allowed in this forum, regardless of the poster's location worldwide.

And I disagree with this. Although Arn is an American, and therefore technically this is an American site (although registered in Scotland if you look closely enough), a site with such an international focus shouldn't allow one country's legal system to dictate what is acceptable. The mods and gods are grown ups, let them make the call according to each case.

 

[BoyBach]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I'm not calling for a ban on discussions about gun ownership, and would not support one. Likewise, I'm not interested in starting a debate about the 'right to bear arms', as I stated at the beginning and has been pointed out since, it's perfectly legal to do so in the US.

This thread was intended to start a discussion about the appropriateness of a discussion about the pros and cons of firearms on this, an open and worldwide, forum.

People are right to point out that someone can simply decide not to read something that they disagree with.

However, would a discussion about drug use be allowed? Or the best places to find hardcore porn? Where is a line drawn on what is deemed appropriate?

 

[Blue Velvet]

Where is a line drawn on what is deemed appropriate?

I'm happy to leave that up to the mods and administrators.

 

[Sun Baked]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I'm not calling for a ban on discussions about gun ownership, and would not support one. Likewise, I'm not interested in starting a debate about the 'right to bear arms', as I stated at the beginning and has been pointed out since, it's perfectly legal to do so in the US.

This thread was intended to start a discussion about the appropriateness of a discussion about the pros and cons of firearms on this, an open and worldwide, forum.

People are right to point out that someone can simply decide not to read something that they disagree with.

However, would a discussion about drug use be allowed? Or the best places to find hardcore porn? Where is a line drawn on what is deemed appropriate?

Where to find/how to use stuff is generally disallowed if there is an issue with its legality in the first place or not appropriate for the forum, which does attract a lot of kids -- so that has to be taken into account.

However, some issues are topics people like to debate heavily on -- and any thread will generally spiral out of control, be closed, or be tossed in the political forum.

It isn't just a matter of avoiding a topic people disagree with, and simply not posting in it.

These topics can be an issue with strong feelings on both sides -- so people are going to fight over it, or make a comment in the thread.

Even if it starts out as an innocuous thread to begin with.

A simple "burglary by clowns at a Wal-Mart" thread is likely going to become an anti-Walmart discussion.

 

[skunk]

"what blowtorch should I buy?"

Personally, I think you're being over-sensitive if you think that questions about plumbing and metalwork are off-limits.