Gurman: Cheaper iPad to Debut Next Week, Sub-$1,000 MacBook Likely Not Ready Yet

[csurfr]

Try using a port-less MBP in the real world and get back to us.

I use a 2017 on a daily basis and don’t miss any of the ports at all. In fact, I don’t recall the last time I plugged anything into my machine except to charge it. Everything is wireless today. Keyboards, mice, cloud storage, etc.

Would that be ideal for a lot of users? No. Could some (like myself) get away with it? Absolutely.

 

[npmacuser5]

Apple needs IOS in the cloud for the education market. The cloud OS a significant reason the Chrome Book successful in education, especially in the 12 grade and under levels. The cloud also helps drive down not only the initial costs, but the significant management costs of implementation. Things like security, upgrades, parental type controls, done in the cloud not the device.

 

[chucker23n1]

I use a 2017 on a daily basis and don’t miss any of the ports at all. In fact, I don’t recall the last time I plugged anything into my machine except to charge it. Everything is wireless today. Keyboards, mice, cloud storage, etc.

Would that be ideal for a lot of users? No. Could some (like myself) get away with it? Absolutely.

Yes, but Naimfan specifically said MBP. The target audience for an MBP is surely a lot more likely to need wired accessories.
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Apple needs IOS in the cloud for the education market.

What does this even mean?

 

[csurfr]

Eh that’s a C- meme right there. They only said courage like once. Find some new memes to improve score.

Anywho, can we all stop pretending that Apple is doing their roadmap to please them personally. I for one would love to get a light 13” MacBook for work/school. I do bash, python, Android dev, websites, and now iOS and for programmers a light fast laptop will prolly be perfect. A programmer (that scripts) shouldn’t need heavy duty processing (if you do just SSH to your server to run them). My biggest Android app is 650 megs as a project (not the apps actual size) and I see that the limiting factor is RAM and fast storage. Also, iCloud Drive works great and i have GIT for bigger projects (where iCloud Drive doesn’t work so great) so I don’t need ports. If the Apple can give me that I’ll but one.

And I feel like programmers/students is a bigger market than professional video/photo people (esp since a desktop is prolly the better solution).

If Apple ain’t doing it for you then move on. Simple. I would.

I absolutely agree. As mentioned in my other post I have a 2017 15”. It’s a monster machine for sure. But let’s be honest...how much power do I *really* need for web dev. Certainly not what the machine provides. I can run illustrator and what not perfectly fine on my 5k iMac.
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Yes, but Naimfan specifically said MBP.

I have a MacBook Pro. I’ve just tailored my usage to not need to plug things in unless it’s a dire need and I’m not near my iMac.

And yes, I have enough common sense to know that I am *not* the “pro” in the sense that I have to have cameras, monitors, drives, etc attached to my machine. I bought it specifically for on the go use. Not as a desktop replacement.

 

[Mildredop]

How many ports are you using anno 2018 on your laptop. I mean apart from a usb-stick every now and then and charching I'm really not using any ports.

I have a 2014 MacBook Pro. I use USBs regularly (for printer, to charge phone, to transfer data from Ricoh Theta camera, Go Pro, plug in external HDD etc.), I use the SD card slot a couple of times a month.

I use the 3.5mm jack several times a week.

I never use the thunderbolt ports (honestly not sure what they're for) and never use the HDMI.

I like ports. I'd want 4x USB-C ports (which would also charge the Mac) and a 3.5mm jack at least.

 

[idunn]

I hate to say it but—sub-par screen, lack of updates and all—the MacBook Air is currently Apple's best notebook offering.

Yes, not as light and portable as the MacBook, nor as powerful as the Pro line, yet in many respects within the sweet spot that many Apple customers value and seek. In large part because it has been neglected and therefore not "improved," so retaining key features like MagSafe, useful ports, and a decent keyboard. All this and all the power many need for what in Apple-land amounts to a bargain price.

Which is why it probably has to die or effectively so in being changed into that the faithful would not recognize or want. As is it stands as a growing embarrassment to Apple, a reminder of past glory and how wrong now.

Hope I am incorrect in this assessment. However if Apple were to provide the MacBook Air with a decent screen, as well improve its power and capability (even manage to lower the price ?)—AND somehow preserve most of its vaunted and valued long battery life—well, then they would have outdone themselves. To the obvious peril of the rest of their notebook line.

Can't have that.

 

[RickInHouston]

How will apple royally gimp these 'cheap' products? You know it's going to be so severe it won't be worth it unless it's the only way you can justify the purchase

 

[Wags]

We’re just repeating history here. The same thing is happening when the MBA first came out as the eventual successor to the MacBook, it’s just that this time the MacBook is here to take back it’s throne; it just needs a couple more years.

The rMB is years ahead of its time. It’s super light and compact, but I don’t think it’s just price that is keeping entry level users away. When you factor in the single port, new keyboard (which has been polarizing for some), low processing power, and crappy FT camera and THEN tack on the price, it’s clear it’s not ready for that entry market. Buying a MBP for the same exact price, while just adding one pound and a little bit of bulk is a hard deal to pass up.

How they redesign a MBA and offer it at a $300-$500 cheaper price than the rMB and not cannibalize the rMB is tough. I say they give the MBA a new screen, USB-C / USB-A, and that’s it. It will be as plain as the new budget iPad.

It’s best to put the rMB in a side category by itself. It makes things a lot clearer.

Apple chooses to have the MB specs where they are at. Could have easily started out much better. Wanted to set the high price with mediocre specs. Plus have to keep us waiting for the next great thing that they will allow us to have.

 

[Schnegg]

Will it have less ports than the 12" MacBook?

 

[HoosBruce]

If it isn’t ready to be sold next week that’s one thing, but to potentially have a more entry-level priced laptop that would be perfect for students and not even mention it at an education event would be perplexing.

 

[npmacuser5]

Yes, but Naimfan specifically said MBP. The target audience for an MBP is surely a lot more likely to need wired accessories.
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What does this even mean?

Chrome OS a cloud based OS, while IOS a device based OS. Thus, it can be fully functional on 16gb of internal storage. All updates applied in the cloud, not the local device. The local device gets a whole new OS when it boots. None of this my app updates failed, or my system needs an hour to update, everything done before one turns on the Chrome Book. Schools IT departments are most pleased with this approach. The downside, need internet to be fully functional, not a problem for education.

 

[timber]

Chrome OS a cloud based OS, while IOS a device based OS. Thus, it can be fully functional on 16gb of internal storage. All updates applied in the cloud, not the local device. The local device gets a whole new OS when it boots. None of this my app updates failed, or my system needs an hour to update, everything done before one turns on the Chrome Book. Schools IT departments are most pleased with this approach. The downside, need internet to be fully functional, not a problem for education.

The device always has to have an OS even if its only purpose is running a browser.
Even so just running a browser requires a lot of the OS (file managing for example).
In reality calling something a "cloud OS" doesn't mean much, a "cloud OS" is just an OS that has got few apps (or almost none)

 

[UnusedLoginID]

I’m reading all these comments and many are far off the original discussion which is about the Education market that has been left behind, that is primary, secondary and high schools. That’s not Higher Edu (College, University) because there’s already great products - MacBook Pro and iMac Pro - at a discount for them already. Remember that College students get discounts, high schoolers don’t, which by the way is something I never understood from a Marketing point of vue, not only because you’re alienating a market - and a market you can get for life - but you’re also creating inconsistencies in the selling proposition (some employees at some stores offer the discount, others don’t).
As to the potentially new products being announced for that market, that Edu market does not need to run Windows on a Mac, it does not need ports, it needs dedicated software for the classroom and high level of security and restrictions and control (this to go with the recent concerns of kids spending too much time on electronics). That market is also price sensitive.
Bearing this in mind, what makes more sense for them considering what Apple has already? Let’s start with the obvious… if you don’t know, many schools have already moved to iPads/tablets in the classroom and it only makes sense to continue in that direction. The current iPad is at $309 (high edu), a small tweak to it or no tweak can make it $299 retail (all Edu markets) and of course lower for large quantities for schools. So Apple does not need to do much for the iPad hw but a lot in the software and support area (maybe dedicated Edu support).
As to the Mac, it’s obvious the MacBook Air is on its way out. Squeezed between the Retina MacBook and the MacBook Pro, it makes no sense whatsoever for Apple to invest in that machine. The only interesting fact about that machine is that it is priced starting at $849 for the Edu (higher Ed only market). Let’s remember this!
The MacBook in the right configuration and price would make a lot more sense for the Edu market we’re talking about (mostly high schools). Considering the current MacBook at $1299 for 256GB and considering Apple rarely drops the price for new products, we can imagine a MacBook 12” or a new 11” with i5 processor (please Apple, drop the m series!) with 128GB at $1099. The current Edu pricing is only $50 off, if Edu pricing was to be extended to all Edu and $100, we now have a sub-$1000 retina Mac at $999. It is still a bit far from $849 but I can think of a higher Edu discount to get to $899 or, why not a new 11” machine at that price. I personally don’t like a 12” MacBook retina and 13” MacBook Pro retina so close in the product line. So 11” MacBook retina at $999 retail and $899 Edu pricing would make sense though a new costly redesign might be out of the question.
Last but not least, Apple would never EVER in their own freaking minds pre-announce a lower price Mac with later availability and cannibalize the whole market for several months (until WWDC or whatever).
Based on the above, my take for this event is that it will be iPad and iOS and software-in-the-classroom related, with maybe some new about Edu support and pricing. New Macs around WWDC.
We’ll see...!

 

[mattopotamus]

How are they going to give you a bigger screen, an extra port, AND shave off $300? If I bought a rMB in the past two years I’d be furious. That would mean the current rMB would be valued below $1000.

That is the nature of technology. You always pay a premium to be an early adopter.

 

[npmacuser5]

The device always has to have an OS even if its only purpose is running a browser.
Even so just running a browser requires a lot of the OS (file managing for example).
In reality calling something a "cloud OS" doesn't mean much, a "cloud OS" is just an OS that has got few apps (or almost none)

Define it however you want, the point, IOS more complicated with far more options then are needed in an educational environment. On top of that, managing IOS in a school environment significantly more challenging then Chrome OS, as example. Apple needs to recognize what education needs actually are. They will find out, most of the IOS cool things are not needed and actually create more problems. Why Chrome OS has succeeded, focused on the system needs for education, costs and OS management.

 

[rtomyj]

I absolutely agree. As mentioned in my other post I have a 2017 15”. It’s a monster machine for sure. But let’s be honest...how much power do I *really* need for web dev. Certainly not what the machine provides. I can run illustrator and what not perfectly fine on my 5k iMac.
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I have a MacBook Pro. I’ve just tailored my usage to not need to plug things in unless it’s a dire need and I’m not near my iMac.

And yes, I have enough common sense to know that I am *not* the “pro” in the sense that I have to have cameras, monitors, drives, etc attached to my machine. I bought it specifically for on the go use. Not as a desktop replacement.

Exactly. Most things don’t need a beefy processor. Good I/O is usually all that’s needed.

You do work on your computer. You’re a PROfessional. Just because you don’t do video doesn’t make you any less PROfessional. Doing video editing is hard but to look down on people for not doing what you’re doing is sad. You’re a pro in my book!

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Why? The Air already has TB2, and that required an extra port.

With TB3, it would be the same USB-C port, and no extra chips would be needed since it would be built into the chipset.

When MBA received TB2 it was a different "level" machine -- not the entry level it has been relegated too. If you understand anything, anything about Apple it doesn't put the latest in its entry level machines even if it that wouldn't bust its margins.

Most recent example is the giant storage gap between the at best bare minimum 64GB iPhone X and the way too much 256GB. Apple gets a lot of people to upgrade to the higher model just because of one feature. In the iPhone Xs case people who otherwise would be very happy with 128. The wholesale price between 64GB and 128GB is pennies. But the point is Apple wants the entry level to be good yet not good enough. It uses the entry level to promote the upsell. So again, the entry level model will not have TB3.

 

[ACST]

So basically, "If I find no use in something then nobody else needs it either." Interesting philosophy.

No then you should buy a macbook pro, that's the philosophy...
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Wow, dude. Not using any ports?
No disrespect on your use case, but I ask, then: Why don't you buy an iPad or IOS phablet and call it the day?

I think I speak for 90% of people when I say that most of the time we have nothing plugged into the ports on our laptop.

 

[chucker23n1]

Chrome OS a cloud based OS, while IOS a device based OS.

ChromeOS is a Linux-based OS that runs on the device.

Thus, it can be fully functional on 16gb of internal storage. All updates applied in the cloud, not the local device. The local device gets a whole new OS when it boots. None of this my app updates failed, or my system needs an hour to update, everything done before one turns on the Chrome Book. Schools IT departments are most pleased with this approach. The downside, need internet to be fully functional, not a problem for education.

That may be what marketing wants to tell you, but it's a gross simplification.

You can pretty much get the "cloud" effect of ChromeOS by opening, gasp, a web browser. ChromeOS app updates aren't "applied in the cloud", nor do you get "a whole new OS" when the device boots. What you're describing is web apps. ChromeOS may encourage those, but neither is it limited to those, nor is iOS inherently unable to run them.

 

[EugW]

When MBA received TB2 it was a different "level" machine -- not the entry level it has been relegated too. If you understand anything, anything about Apple it doesn't put the latest in its entry level machines even if it that wouldn't bust its margins.

Sure it does. It even puts stuff in its entry level machines that are cutting edge and cost extra to put in, stuff that even higher end machines of the same era from competitors don't have.

For example, Apple had USB before anyone else.

And the MacBooks had FireWire for a long, long time... right from launch. Hell, even the G3 iBooks had FireWire.

 

[npmacuser5]

That may be what marketing wants to tell you, but it's a gross simplification.

So bad it is kicking Apple to the curb, that type of marketing. In education, what this thread about, IOS is overly complicated and costly for the needs of education, period. Apple needs to have a cloud OS that strips all the bloated features out of IOS for education. My Grandson has a 16gb school Chrome OS laptop. Works fantastic to the point he chooses it over his IOS iPad. The iPad wins on a few games, about it, otherwise iPad collecting dust. Results matter. Not always does the best designed system win. What wins, those system meeting the needs, and to some extent costs of the customer. Define it any way you want, Apple loosing badly in the education market they once dominated.

 

[chucker23n1]

So bad it is kicking Apple to the curb, that type of marketing.

Apple is doing fine.

In education, what this thread about, IOS is overly complicated and costly for the needs of education, period.

Actually, this thread is about macOS, which is quite distinct from iOS. What's making Chromebooks more successful in education than MacBooks is, first and foremost, pricing. Apple is not going to participate in that race to the bottom.

There may be some deployment aspects that ChromeOS does better than iOS or macOS, but so far, I haven't seen someone given an actual example. VPP + DEP is pretty damn simple.

 

[npmacuser5]

Apple is doing fine.



Actually, this thread is about macOS, which is quite distinct from iOS. What's making Chromebooks more successful in education than MacBooks is, first and foremost, pricing. Apple is not going to participate in that race to the bottom.

There may be some deployment aspects that ChromeOS does better than iOS or macOS, but so far, I haven't seen someone given an actual example. VPP + DEP is pretty damn simple.

This why my comment:
“Apple plans to introduce a cheaper iPad next week that should appeal to the education market, and new software for the classroom, according to Bloomberg News' Mark Gurman. The new products should be announced at Apple's education-themed event on Tuesday at Lane Tech College Prep High School in Chicago.”

 

[chucker23n1]

This why my comment:
“Apple plans to introduce a cheaper iPad next week that should appeal to the education market, and new software for the classroom, according to Bloomberg News' Mark Gurman. The new products should be announced at Apple's education-themed event on Tuesday at Lane Tech College Prep High School in Chicago.”

I stand corrected!

 

[dampfnudel]

Reduce the bezels, add a Retina display, Kaby Lake R, 256GB SSD, 2 USB-C ports, a space gray option and keep the current keyboard for $999. That would be a winner and I would probably get one.