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Guys, calm down about Intel, keep buying PowerPC Macs.
- Thread starter GFLPraxis
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cubist said:
You are still not getting it
By 2007 there still be millions of PPC mac users out there, why would any software company want to drop them?
During mid 2006 through end of 2007 how many Macntels do you think have been sold Vs the PPC, of how many years?
I hope you can see that your argument does not hold any water.
The PPC Mac will be fine until about 2010 and beyond.
dukeblue91 said:You are still not getting it
By 2007 there still be millions of PPC mac users out there, why would any software company want to drop them?
Because a lot of people fail to understand how difficult it was to build both 680x0 binaries and PPC binaries, and so make the invalid assumption that things will be the same this time.
In theory, it should be easier. The OS was designed not to be locked down to a single processor (which probably wasn't the case back then.) Also, if the whole XCode thing is even 1/2 as easy as they're making it out to be, i'd imagine things could go a bit smoother this time around.
Technology's come a long way since then too. In reality, you're looking at them needing to use universal binaries for software until 2009-2010. At that point, computer built recently will be 5 years old or so, and any $300-$400 software would probably not be purchased for these. In most cases, people using older computers are also using older software. Not always the case, but a lot of the time it is.
That's not to say it's going to be easy... but if they can get mathematica running in a weekend (supposedly), I think there's a good chance for this to work.
Technology's come a long way since then too. In reality, you're looking at them needing to use universal binaries for software until 2009-2010. At that point, computer built recently will be 5 years old or so, and any $300-$400 software would probably not be purchased for these. In most cases, people using older computers are also using older software. Not always the case, but a lot of the time it is.
That's not to say it's going to be easy... but if they can get mathematica running in a weekend (supposedly), I think there's a good chance for this to work.
Ya see guys and gals I don't really know what to do. I mean I've wanted a new iMac ever since they were released, especially before I go to college. But now with this Intel talk I don't know if I should just take my farely new 1.5 Ghz Powerbook instead...Part of me says if I buy an iMac now, by the time junior year of college rolls around I will want/need a new laptop so then I could have an excuse to splurge on a new Intel Powerbook...but that's assuming I've got that kind of $ in 3 years....so I guess really what I'm asking is:
* Should I buy an iMac and bring that to college w/ my Powerbook or --
* Should I just bring my Powerbook and wait until junior year to get a new laptop...
Sorry for sort on invading this thread but I know how alot of the members of this site hate it when you start a new thread about a FAQ
* Should I buy an iMac and bring that to college w/ my Powerbook or --
* Should I just bring my Powerbook and wait until junior year to get a new laptop...
Sorry for sort on invading this thread but I know how alot of the members of this site hate it when you start a new thread about a FAQ
dukeblue91 said:You are still not getting it
...
The PPC Mac will be fine until about 2010 and beyond.
You only hear what you want to hear. Did you notice in the other article, the game developers "can't wait to drop support for PPC"?
Nobody cares about millions of old computer owners. If they did, we'd still see Mac OS 9 applications being shipped today. Do we? After all, Mac OS 9 was still current 3 years ago. Do you really think more than 50% of all Macs in use today run Mac OS 10?
No, I expect we'll run into Intel-only binaries in a surprisingly short time.
Meanwhile, nobody has answered the Xcode 2.1 question yet...
cubist said:
So basically what's going to happen is the first MacTel will be released to the market sometime next year and Steve will flick that special switch.... all the PPC's in the world will shut down and become redundant, forcing us all to buy this new MacTel computer. MacTel sales will sky rocket, the transition will have been a huge success and the software companies won't have to worry about developing for outdated technology.
cubist said:
You can build universal binaried w/ the PPC xcode 2.1. People on this board have done it already (with no way to test, obviously).
MP
Thx
honestly thx im not tech savy and I really want a mac this summer but this intel stuff really freaked me out but from what I understand of what u just worte this makes sense. Ill be buying my mac this summer maybe at a reduced price
GFLPraxis said:
honestly thx im not tech savy and I really want a mac this summer but this intel stuff really freaked me out but from what I understand of what u just worte this makes sense. Ill be buying my mac this summer maybe at a reduced price
I was going to buy a PM g5 a few weeksago
The reasons I had to buy were:
1. It lasts for 5-7 years
2. Performance
3. Resale value
4. Future programs will run great on it
5. Upgradeable
Now, in answer to these things
1. Won't last as long
2. Performance, even now per steve Jobs, is lacking compared to intel
3. resale value is absolutely shot
4. future is now VERY unknown, who knows... emulation? BAH
5. Upgradebable now, but who will support hardware after mactels come out?
In other words, there is NO compelling reason to buy more than a mini or low end imac now.
The reasons I had to buy were:
1. It lasts for 5-7 years
2. Performance
3. Resale value
4. Future programs will run great on it
5. Upgradeable
Now, in answer to these things
1. Won't last as long
2. Performance, even now per steve Jobs, is lacking compared to intel
3. resale value is absolutely shot
4. future is now VERY unknown, who knows... emulation? BAH
5. Upgradebable now, but who will support hardware after mactels come out?
In other words, there is NO compelling reason to buy more than a mini or low end imac now.
AP_piano295 said:honestly thx im not tech savy and I really want a mac this summer but this intel stuff really freaked me out but from what I understand of what u just worte this makes sense. Ill be buying my mac this summer maybe at a reduced price
I honestly think it depends on what kind of computer you are buying, whether or not you should be concerned. If you are in the laptop market, be concerned, if you are in the desktop market, I wouldn't be so much. Either way, I don't think PPC support will be dropped by Apple anytime soon, I would however worry about third party shareware apps that many of us depend on. In the end though, if you buy a mac now, it will still be a very productive machine in 3 years when Apple's entire line will be Intel based.
edit:: when I say concerned, I don't mean about future compatibility, I just mean when the Intel based laptops come out they will smoke the G4 based books (like mine).
edit #2::
I think it's the opposite, and the machines you named will have the least bang for their buck as they will be updated sooner then the PM line, and no machine will last you 5-7 years unless all you use is iTunes, an IM app, and TexEdit.sbb155 said:
Will still last that long; this is a phased transition
Performance is exactly the same as is was last week. The reason why the switch is being made is about the roadmap, not today's processors.
You might have a point here, we'll have to see.
Future programs will still run just as great, and after 5-7 years you would need to upgrade anyway. Universal binaries mean you won't even have to buy new versions when the processor is changed.
Every part of it that was upgradable last week is still upgradable this week. And next week.
GFLPraxis said:
Having just viewed Steve Jobs' Keynote Address, I'm not entirely convinced by your assurances. Jobs makes a very powerful case for the MacIntel future - and at the same time - the demise of the PowerPC.
Sure, it's fine to upgrade on the basis that it's essentially a 'risk-free' purchase, knowing that the hardware will continue to be software-supported. But there are those who may prefer to buy a computer that will be part of an imminent future, rather than a rapidly fading past.
There is ultimately no right or wrong in this debate. What you say is perfectly reasonable. But anyone who is evenly faintly excited about Apple's evolving products and its next big step will have real difficulty in buying a current Mac after listening to Jobs rave about the on-the-horizon MacIntel.
An Apple user since 1990, I was about to order a much-needed new PowerMac, but Jobs has made me think again.
apple has had a good run
Just like the old apple II
and the first Mac
this has been a golden time for apple
But now, Ipod sales are stagnant
The shift to intel WILL drive sales away, or delay them
Despite the "mac fanatics", let's face it,sales will be down
I say, thank you apple for a good run, but it is time to take profits on the stock, and dig in for a rocky couple of years with lower sales, etc.
They have enough cash to survive and prosper, but now we are in a 2 year delay.
I wanted, so badly, to get PM dual 2 or 2.3
I even had it ready to order, but wisely I waited for WWDC.
Now, I am just going to deal with slower render times on my PB, and wait and wait
I am a recent switcher, but I am thinking about going back for a couple of years. I am familiar and haven't had problems with windows xp, and a new tablet thinkpad looks good to me. Not as good as a mac, but I use both platforms without any issues.
I will likely revisit the mac hardware options in 2007-8. I have a feeling I am not alone.
I wouldve liked the PM, but I refuse to spend 3000 on "old news"
SB
Just like the old apple II
and the first Mac
this has been a golden time for apple
But now, Ipod sales are stagnant
The shift to intel WILL drive sales away, or delay them
Despite the "mac fanatics", let's face it,sales will be down
I say, thank you apple for a good run, but it is time to take profits on the stock, and dig in for a rocky couple of years with lower sales, etc.
They have enough cash to survive and prosper, but now we are in a 2 year delay.
I wanted, so badly, to get PM dual 2 or 2.3
I even had it ready to order, but wisely I waited for WWDC.
Now, I am just going to deal with slower render times on my PB, and wait and wait
I am a recent switcher, but I am thinking about going back for a couple of years. I am familiar and haven't had problems with windows xp, and a new tablet thinkpad looks good to me. Not as good as a mac, but I use both platforms without any issues.
I will likely revisit the mac hardware options in 2007-8. I have a feeling I am not alone.
I wouldve liked the PM, but I refuse to spend 3000 on "old news"
SB
I was one of them, who panicked, i had just brought my first ever imac,
then when i could, i watched the speach by steve, and im so certain i still brought the best computer i could, whats the difference if it was a mac, or a pc,, i brought the best one i could at the time, if i was going to buy a pc, and they said, in two years were going to be up to 6.ghz processors, would i wait? hell no, id still buy the best i could now, so whats the differnce, the OS?? B**********Ks, os x is fantastic, way better than xp in some aspects, and not in some others, but thats eary days for me, im a "switcher". some stuff is great, and some im like why,
I beleive that every software producer out there has got a learn from each other, and one day some one will get it right, but its a long way off, personally, from my windows days, i like to know where my icon is to start a program, this copying a program over manaluy with os x, and maybe the previous mac os's,, its a bit finicky, some programs, run when you click, them, then some go and install themselve,,WTF????
Im going to to trash my imac, make something not work, try to fix it,,, why? so i learn, its the only way,, i even put in one of them internet chats to apple, did they solve it,, hmm no,, but i did later,, i learnt that the preferences were ok, that nothing that they suggested was correct, it was my eyetv device, when the signal drops, so does the sounds, they didnt figure that out for a MAC only product,,, hmmmmmm,
but anyway
Mac overall, good so far, anyone reading this, buy one, its got its cons, but windows, and linux, they got even more,,,
then when i could, i watched the speach by steve, and im so certain i still brought the best computer i could, whats the difference if it was a mac, or a pc,, i brought the best one i could at the time, if i was going to buy a pc, and they said, in two years were going to be up to 6.ghz processors, would i wait? hell no, id still buy the best i could now, so whats the differnce, the OS?? B**********Ks, os x is fantastic, way better than xp in some aspects, and not in some others, but thats eary days for me, im a "switcher". some stuff is great, and some im like why,
I beleive that every software producer out there has got a learn from each other, and one day some one will get it right, but its a long way off, personally, from my windows days, i like to know where my icon is to start a program, this copying a program over manaluy with os x, and maybe the previous mac os's,, its a bit finicky, some programs, run when you click, them, then some go and install themselve,,WTF????
Im going to to trash my imac, make something not work, try to fix it,,, why? so i learn, its the only way,, i even put in one of them internet chats to apple, did they solve it,, hmm no,, but i did later,, i learnt that the preferences were ok, that nothing that they suggested was correct, it was my eyetv device, when the signal drops, so does the sounds, they didnt figure that out for a MAC only product,,, hmmmmmm,
but anyway
Mac overall, good so far, anyone reading this, buy one, its got its cons, but windows, and linux, they got even more,,,
sbb155 said:
You've got to try a bit better than that if you're going to successfully troll.
So the rumour that, post Christmas season, they have been unable to sustain a 200%+ quarter-to-quarter growth is now defined as stagnant? That's as good as Enderle saying the iPod is a fad, just like the Sony Walkman is.
In that case there isn't a company in the world that wouldn't give their eye-teeth for a stagnant fad.
cubist said:
Would it be possible to use Rosetta technology to build an Intel emulator for the PPC?
fawlty said:
I think that's how they are going to keep the PPCs valuable for as long as possible. The PPC going becoming worthless in 2007 is a bit of an exaggeration, but I could see the PPC being worthless by probably 2009. The transition is ending, at the end of 2007, and I see Apple making sure the PPC stay useful until probably 2009 and beyond. That's what they did with OS 9 and I see this as no different.
sbb155 said:
My friend, of course your computer will be old news in 2 years, everyone's computer will be old news in two years... I say just go ahead and buy your Powermac. In two years it's not going to disappear or anything like that. Even if Apple didn't switch to Intel your Mac would be beat by future technology...that's just the way it goes...
I'm in the same boat as you. Like I explained in a couple of previous posts I really wanted to buy an iMac before I go to college but I second guessed everything once I heard about the "switch." But I realized that the only apps that I really use Apple makes...right now I have Mail, iTunes and iChat running and if I waited two years or however long the "Macintel" iMac was released I would have the same apps open but they would just open faster, but I would get used to that after a while and not really appreciate it.
Okay I've rambled on enough... moral of this post: Just buy the Powermac
iJaz said:
I'm pleased for Apple that it's ensuring its future by switching to Intel chips. For people who need to upgrade, however, it produces a real quandry.
The upshot of Steve's Keynote is that Intel is the best way forward from all points of view. Heat was just a good place to start, because it's an issue that will otherwise hold back the kind of performance they want the Mac to reach.
People can't have it boths ways - applauding Apple's promising Intel future and at the same time encouraging people to buy (at no small expense) a current Mac if it's simply convenient for them. Yes it is frustrating to wait, but today's Macs are history.