Halide 2.13 Features In-App Action Button Triggers on iPhone 15 Pro

[mariocapo]

Hey, I make Halide. Well, I wrote the article and I design it, Ben codes it.
We're working hard on Mark 3, and that is definitely included in the price. We might have ongoing cost-services at some point, and those would not be in the subscription. Things like Skylight, where we use weather forecast reports to forecast sunset quality for instance.

It's also $12 a year, not per month. I hope that helps a bit 🙂

$60 for a camera app is pushing it for me. I would drop $20-30 IF I thought it was amazing. And forget renting. I don’t need a weather forecast in it. But i might check out the trial at least.

 

[Cocoi]

Well, we'd love to hear your thoughts! Given our niche, we think the prices work for us so we can keep working on our software. I realize it's not for everyone, and that's OK. Just grateful for all your honest feedback here and hope you all get to check out Halide — we also make a few other apps that are free, which is enabled by our subscriptions, like Orion and Spectre. Cheers folks.

 

[svish]

Good to know. Halide is a good app and it is nice to have a one time purchase option.

 

[JimmyHook]

They offer a one time purchase, people complain. They offer a low cost subscription, people complain. Jeez, bunch of cheap people wanting things for free. Devs, ignore them. They aren’t your customers anyway.

 

[jasonsmith_88]

Subscription models are the bane of modern software because every man and his dog wants monthly money off you. Yes it might only be a couple of bucks but when most of your apps all want a couple of bucks it adds up and fast.
I much prefer the old "versions" system where you'd pay for an app once and you got Version 1 and all its updates then when Version 2 came out people with V1 could update for a discount or if you could live without the new features and support you could stay on V1 until OS updates rendered it obsolete. For me I would only be happy to pay for a software subscription if the software itself relies on cloud services that need to be paid for.

Back in the day developers didn’t have to rewrite their app every year because of constant new device releases with new hardware and APIs.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re blaming the wrong people - if you don’t like subs, blame Apple and Google for constantly deprecating APIs with every release, forcing developers to constantly do work to keep apps working. Seems fair to get paid for the work you do, no? When you rock up to a new job, do you only get paid for the first day then work every other day for the rest of your life for free?

 

[headlessmike]

On the other hand, with their pricing structure, I’d certainly hope that a one-time purchase includes at least the next several versions. At $12 per year or $60 for one-time purchase, that means you are paying the cost of five years of subscription time with a one-time purchase. It would be pretty crappy to expect you to pay again in less than five years, regardless of how many major updates come out in that time. A one-time purchase should cover you for at least five years, if not longer, regardless of what comes out in that time.

From the developer's perspective it makes sense to incentivize the subscription model by making it cheaper than the one-time price since it secures a steady flow of revenue. And with a single purchase you're paying for the service as it is today, not necessarily for what it will be in five years.

Just to make this clear: I'm not a fan of everything be subscription-based either. I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

 

[headlessmike]

Back in the day developers didn’t have to rewrite their app every year because of constant new device releases with new hardware and APIs.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re blaming the wrong people - if you don’t like subs, blame Apple and Google for constantly deprecating APIs with every release, forcing developers to constantly do work to keep apps working. Seems fair to get paid for the work you do, no? When you rock up to a new job, do you only get paid for the first day then work every other day for the rest of your life for free?

Even before iOS and Android shook things up, it was still common to have to update (at a cost) every few years to support the latest OS releases (like going from Windows 3.1 to 95). But the pace has definitely picked up. It was probably more common to stick to a single OS for the entire life of a computer back then though. There was certainly a lot more effort required to upgrade.

 

[Stuey3D]

Back in the day developers didn’t have to rewrite their app every year because of constant new device releases with new hardware and APIs.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re blaming the wrong people - if you don’t like subs, blame Apple and Google for constantly deprecating APIs with every release, forcing developers to constantly do work to keep apps working. Seems fair to get paid for the work you do, no? When you rock up to a new job, do you only get paid for the first day then work every other day for the rest of your life for free?

Which is why I said they need to go back to the “versions” system of old that way developers work will still be paid for.

Right now we are in a time of high inflation and high cost of living and most people don’t have a load of spare money around for subscriptions but people do sometimes come into a little bit of one off money that could support a one of purchase (Xmas/Birthday/Bonus etc) now say you want an app for one specific feature why should you have to keep funding new features that you’ll never use. Right now people are holding on to older devices for longer and are dropping out of OS support so people holding onto their older devices won’t need support for new api’s so again why should they keep paying?

Imagine this hypothetical situation (timescales shortened for ease of explanation) You have an app on your iPhone X that you purchased for one feature and it works perfect for you, your iPhone X works perfect but is stuck on iOS 16 which isn’t a bother to you as you don’t need any of the iOS 17 features and Apple still provide security updates. However the app you paid for now gets updated to iOS 17 and no longer works on iOS 16 (yes this is the bit I’ve exaggerated as it’s unlikely an app would cut of older iOS support this quick) now you are left with an app that you’ve paid for that no longer works on your device.

However if developers opted for a version system you could buy v1 of that app for that specific feature you’d use and if you then don’t upgrade your phone it will keep working, however if you do update/upgrade your phone and you find v1 of the app doesn’t work then the developer could offer v2 at a discount for loyal customers. Bjango did this for iStat Menu’s on the Mac, I paid about £15 years ago for it on my old 2012 MBP I had stopped using a Mac for a while and then I got an M1 MacBook Air, now the 2 or 3 versions old version I had the licence for had no hope in hell of working on the M1 Air but he allowed me to use my old key and offered me a discounted upgrade to the latest version for £10.

If the new version of the app has enough new features and updates then people will pay again for it, but there are some apps out there that charge a subscription but haven’t had an update in ages and they don’t require cloud services so there is no reason for them to be a subscription. It’s developers getting greedy trying to exploit people or con the less savvy into a subscription they don’t need, children’s games are absolutely notorious for this I’ve noticed when checking out apps for my daughter.

 

[Egregius]

I don't really get the point of this whole discussion. If you think an app is to expensive or the subscription is to high just use another app.
I'm still wondering if Halide supports a Fjorden grip, or if it will ever support that.
Also curious for the 24MP support.

 

[headlessmike]

Which is why I said they need to go back to the “versions” system of old that way developers work will still be paid for.

Right now we are in a time of high inflation and high cost of living and most people don’t have a load of spare money around for subscriptions but people do sometimes come into a little bit of one off money that could support a one of purchase (Xmas/Birthday/Bonus etc) now say you want an app for one specific feature why should you have to keep funding new features that you’ll never use. Right now people are holding on to older devices for longer and are dropping out of OS support so people holding onto their older devices won’t need support for new api’s so again why should they keep paying?

Imagine this hypothetical situation (timescales shortened for ease of explanation) You have an app on your iPhone X that you purchased for one feature and it works perfect for you, your iPhone X works perfect but is stuck on iOS 16 which isn’t a bother to you as you don’t need any of the iOS 17 features and Apple still provide security updates. However the app you paid for now gets updated to iOS 17 and no longer works on iOS 16 (yes this is the bit I’ve exaggerated as it’s unlikely an app would cut of older iOS support this quick) now you are left with an app that you’ve paid for that no longer works on your device.

However if developers opted for a version system you could buy v1 of that app for that specific feature you’d use and if you then don’t upgrade your phone it will keep working, however if you do update/upgrade your phone and you find v1 of the app doesn’t work then the developer could offer v2 at a discount for loyal customers. Bjango did this for iStat Menu’s on the Mac, I paid about £15 years ago for it on my old 2012 MBP I had stopped using a Mac for a while and then I got an M1 MacBook Air, now the 2 or 3 versions old version I had the licence for had no hope in hell of working on the M1 Air but he allowed me to use my old key and offered me a discounted upgrade to the latest version for £10.

If the new version of the app has enough new features and updates then people will pay again for it, but there are some apps out there that charge a subscription but haven’t had an update in ages and they don’t require cloud services so there is no reason for them to be a subscription. It’s developers getting greedy trying to exploit people or con the less savvy into a subscription they don’t need, children’s games are absolutely notorious for this I’ve noticed when checking out apps for my daughter.

Another option that I've seen used is to offer new features as in-app purchases. The app you paid for keeps all of the features you paid for, but will hopefully keep working as development is kept afloat by the addition of new optional features that can be purchased later. One app that I use that kind of works this way is Agenda, a note-taking app.

 

[Lee_Bo]

Agreed on the pricing, but having used Halide for 1 month, I can see why it is priced that way.

I don't think the app will be fully appreciated by casual photographers. So it is priced for prosumer and pro photographers (who do not always carry larger cameras but want more out of iPhone).

While I don’t consider myself a “professional photographer”, even though I could probably switch the flip and go that route, this is a good example. I’m getting ready to board a plane tomorrow evening for a 12 day excursion to the west coast (USA) and I really don’t want to carry along one of my camera bags.

I know. A “professional photographer” would carry a camera bag anywhere.

But as a current Halide user, I’m looking forward to seeing what my 14 PM can produce with the app.

 

[Stuey3D]

Another option that I've seen used is to offer new features as in-app purchases. The app you paid for keeps all of the features you paid for, but will hopefully keep working as development is kept afloat by the addition of new optional features that can be purchased later. One app that I use that kind of works this way is Agenda, a note-taking app.

Yeah that could also work and then realise a full new version if the API’s change too much that the app will no longer work with previous OS versions.

I’m sure I’ve used an app where I only needed one specific item so got that as an in app purchase and left the rest out.

So in Halides case make the basic app free (or free trial) and then add stuff in as IAP’s with the ability to unlock the whole app for the big price. For me I only use the macro mode on an occasional basis and the stock camera app for everything else so if that were available for say $5 instead of purchasing the whole app for $60 or a subscription then I would much prefer that.

 

[rickjones842000]

Subscription models are the bane of modern software because every man and his dog wants monthly money off you. Yes it might only be a couple of bucks but when most of your apps all want a couple of bucks it adds up and fast.
I much prefer the old "versions" system where you'd pay for an app once and you got Version 1 and all its updates then when Version 2 came out people with V1 could update for a discount or if you could live without the new features and support you could stay on V1 until OS updates rendered it obsolete. For me I would only be happy to pay for a software subscription if the software itself relies on cloud services that need to be paid for.

Subscriptions can actually be good for both developers and users as well. In the old days you might pay hundreds of dollars for software and then stop using it after a month or two and really didn't get much value from that expense. With a subscription that is only $1 a month if you change your mind you can simply cancel and you're only out a few bucks. Plus, mobile apps are often updated frequently with new features on a regular basis instead of being saved up for a big "upgrade" with upgrade pricing. It's just a pay over time, for what you use model. A dollar a month for 10 years is only $120... really not that bad.

Developers can't just spend their entire working days on products and only receive $3 one time. They would have to have an incredible amount of users to make that sustainable. I don't understand how people find $1/month too much money to spend on great apps. Consumer spending is all over the place. People have no issue with a crappy $5 starbucks drink every day but tools that help capture awesome photography are just wayyyyy too expensive.

 

[Stuey3D]

Subscriptions can actually be good for both developers and users as well. In the old days you might pay hundreds of dollars for software and then stop using it after a month or two and really didn't get much value from that expense. With a subscription that is only $1 a month if you change your mind you can simply cancel and you're only out a few bucks. Plus, mobile apps are often updated frequently with new features on a regular basis instead of being saved up for a big "upgrade" with upgrade pricing. It's just a pay over time, for what you use model. A dollar a month for 10 years is only $120... really not that bad.

Developers can't just spend their entire working days on products and only receive $3 one time. They would have to have an incredible amount of users to make that sustainable. I don't understand how people find $1/month too much money to spend on great apps. Consumer spending is all over the place. People have no issue with a crappy $5 starbucks drink every day but tools that help capture awesome photography are just wayyyyy too expensive.

The issue is its every app nowadays. A couple of bucks here or there for the odd good app would be ok but most apps want some kind of subscription nowadays and thats where it all adds up and we are in a cost of living crisis where people are tightening their belts and are not having a $5 Starbucks.

Nowadays every app is either subscription or micro transactions which is why I gave up on gaming on my iPhone long ago too.

I do agree with subscriptions to maybe try an app for a month or 2 but some developers take the P*** and abuse the subscription model.

I'm lucky as I got Halide for £10-15 back in the day as a curiosity before they went subscription model and its still getting updated now, but as I said above I only use it for the Macro Mode they added to older iPhones and I only use it sporadically so I would neither pay £60 for it nor $3 a month for it. Yes its a great app but also far too much for my needs.

 

[Captain_Flannel]

I know people don't like subscription models, but this is absolutely one of the apps it makes total sense for. They are always super early to update the app for the new phones with new features. Are always on the cutting edge of what they are allowed to do with APIs. All that work and time needs consistent revenue, not just a onetime $10 purchase.

Also, their pricing is very reasonable - $12/year. Some people won't get the value out of a 3rd party camera like this, but I can say with certainty that this app made shooting on the 14 Pro series so much better last year. Having the 48mp jpeg/heif option was so nice. Being able to bypass Apple's severe over processing was essential. There were so many times where I took a photo with Halide last year that I knew Apple's camera app would have ruined with its over processing, HDR, denoising algorithm.

 

[rickjones842000]

The issue is its every app nowadays. A couple of bucks here or there for the odd good app would be ok but most apps want some kind of subscription nowadays and thats where it all adds up and we are in a cost of living crisis where people are tightening their belts and are not having a $5 Starbucks.

Nowadays every app is either subscription or micro transactions which is why I gave up on gaming on my iPhone long ago too.

I do agree with subscriptions to maybe try an app for a month or 2 but some developers take the P*** and abuse the subscription model.

I'm lucky as I got Halide for £10-15 back in the day as a curiosity before they went subscription model and its still getting updated now, but as I said above I only use it for the Macro Mode they added to older iPhones and I only use it sporadically so I would neither pay £60 for it nor $3 a month for it. Yes its a great app but also far too much for my needs.

I hear what you're saying.. but saying "it all adds up" is sort of like walking into a grocery store and putting a bunch of items in your cart and saying "wow this all adds up, I think some of these items should be free" or criticizing the company that wants to make £1 so they can stay in business. It just means we have to budget and buy fewer things, but the problem isn't necessarily the market price.

I just find it interesting that people are so liberal with tipping, rounding up at the register etc but considers mobile and desktop apps so expensive despite all the hard work that goes into making them. Just human nature I suppose. Not mocking you or anything this is just my personal opinion. Developers fostered the race to the bottom in the early days of the app store and it's permanently distorted everyone's expectations.

 

[nutmac]

I just find it interesting that people are so liberal with tipping, rounding up at the register etc but considers mobile and desktop apps so expensive despite all the hard work that goes into making them. Just human nature I suppose. Not mocking you or anything this is just my personal opinion. Developers fostered the race to the bottom in the early days of the app store and it's permanently distorted everyone's expectations.

Subscription-based software or service has few but major consumer hurdles:

• Canceling it as not always easy. It's much easier with subscription services on App Store, but the ick factor is there.
• You don't want to pay for it when you are not using it. It is easier to justify paying for something just once and use it occasionally, even if you don't end up saving a whole lot over subscription.
• There are too many subscriptions. And managing them can be unpleasant when you have many.

 

[rickjones842000]

Subscription-based software or service has few but major consumer hurdles:

• Canceling it as not always easy. It's much easier with subscription services on App Store, but the ick factor is there.
• You don't want to pay for it when you are not using it. It is easier to justify paying for something just once and use it occasionally, even if you don't end up saving a whole lot over subscription.
• There are too many subscriptions. And managing them can be unpleasant when you have many.

I feel like Apple made it easier at some point and seeing them all in Settings/Apple ID/Subscriptions is pretty straightforward but yes it can be a big list if you have a lot. I have a medium amount probably.

The only sub model I'm not crazy about is YEARLY and when the alternate monthly option is NOT the yearly/12 amount. Like it costs more to go monthly. Then they are trying to steer you into doing a year to save money. Just keep it simple and make it a low monthly price.

 

[Cocoi]

From the developer's perspective it makes sense to incentivize the subscription model by making it cheaper than the one-time price since it secures a steady flow of revenue. And with a single purchase you're paying for the service as it is today, not necessarily for what it will be in five years.

Just to make this clear: I'm not a fan of everything be subscription-based either. I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

I also want to add to this that after a year, we actually get 15% more from every dollar you give us. Apple incentivizes subscriptions this way. 30% cut from pay-once, but only 15% after a subscription turns over 1 year old.

 

[Cocoi]

While I don’t consider myself a “professional photographer”, even though I could probably switch the flip and go that route, this is a good example. I’m getting ready to board a plane tomorrow evening for a 12 day excursion to the west coast (USA) and I really don’t want to carry along one of my camera bags.

I know. A “professional photographer” would carry a camera bag anywhere.

But as a current Halide user, I’m looking forward to seeing what my 14 PM can produce with the app.

And we're very excited to see it! 🙂

 

[VaeVictis]

Just a quick question, if somebody buys lifetime subscription of Halide 2 app, will you update it "forever", even if you release version 3 of the app.

I don't mean regarding adding new features, what I mean is regarding new updates, if Apple decides to change certain stuff, like they changed from 32bit to 64bit and old apps were discontinued.

Thank you.

 

[Cocoi]

Just a quick question, if somebody buys lifetime subscription of Halide 2 app, will you update it "forever", even if you release version 3 of the app.

I don't mean regarding adding new features, what I mean is regarding new updates, if Apple decides to change certain stuff, like they changed from 32bit to 64bit and old apps were discontinued.

Thank you.

Good question — sorry it took me a while to respond, I am not super active here.

Forever is a very hard claim to make. I don't think anyone will promise an infinite product lifetime. But given all circumstances, yes, we hope to honor that purchase and keep the app working for you for the lifetime of the app.

 

[JonS_2023]

I generally shy away from subscription models as well, but admit I had not appreciated what Cocoi says about the effort of keeping up with the movement in the underlying API structures, let alone new features. I am one of those who bought Halide a while ago that they have supported so well.

Picking up on the question posted by Egregius (and others), wondering if Halide supports a Fjorden grip, or if it will ever support that. I am looking for a grip and that one looks interesting. They have their own app, but I would like to stick with Halide.

Wondering if I can twist Cocoi to comment?

 

[isomorphic]

I appreciate the frank feedback! It's frustrating, though, because it seems that whatever we do, we can't do anything right.

We have to keep developing Halide, as without updates it will stop working.

You make a strong case for needing the recurring revenue in order to support Halide—or any software depending upon an environment which is constantly changing. APIs, hardware—you'd think the iPhone would be "mature" like all the pundits keep saying, but no one wants the camera tech to stop evolving (hardware or software)!

 

[Egregius]

Picking up on the question posted by Egregius (and others), wondering if Halide supports a Fjorden grip, or if it will ever support that. I am looking for a grip and that one looks interesting. They have their own app, but I would like to stick with Halide.

I received my Fjorden grip and can tell you this:
In the stock camera app: Only shutter works
In Halide: Only shutter works
In ProCamera: Shutter, second shutter (awesome, for example antishake!), zoom (or camera selection) and light compensation.
In Fjorden app: Almost everything can be set.