Hands-On With Apple's New 2018 Mac Mini

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. WC7 macrumors newbie

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    Dec 13, 2018
    #401
    WHAT? Haha. I understand. I should have mentioned I've used lesser OS's ... learned my lesson. Only macOS from now on (everything is centered on my iCloud with the Apple apps). Understand that Chrome is the lowest common denominator ... I also tried with my iOS as my computer using my iPhone, but I couldn't adjust to the touch stuff (even though my iPhone or iPad would work for most of what I do).
     
  2. brofkand macrumors 6502

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    Jun 11, 2006
    #402
    Yeah I hear ya, I need a full OS too - too used to the workflow to adjust. I have used ChromeOS for basic tasks in the past though, it just ended up being a hassle to switch to a full machine when I needed the power.
     
  3. WC7 macrumors newbie

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    Dec 13, 2018
    #403
    I should have mentioned I've been using a 'bit' of the Xcode, too. I know you can use Swift Playgrounds with iOS but I'm also using some of the Metal stuff.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018 ---
    With respect to my i3 mini decision ... I did ask someone how the i3 worked for them ... they said it was 'quick'. That's all I have heard so far. Also, I have a pretty strict budget limit ... less than $850! So, I only had one option choice for the Mac mini!
     
  4. brofkand macrumors 6502

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    #404
    The SSD has a lot to do with perceived speed nowadays. CPU's got fast enough 10 years ago for basic usage, they were just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for memory and storage speeds to catch up.
     
  5. Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    #405
    The i3 isn't a bad machine. The biggest issue is the small storage.
     
  6. WC7, Dec 13, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018

    WC7 macrumors newbie

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    Dec 13, 2018
    #406
    Thought about that, too. Eventually, I just need to get an external SSD (USB-C) when I exceed the internal SSD. I was thinking I already have my Desktop and Documents folder mirrored to the iCloud so that may save some space. (And, I do already have a spare HDD for slow storage.)
    --- Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018 ---
    I was concerned about the write speed of the 128 GB SSD on the i3 mini. If you make the i5 selection it is writing 'in parallel' which makes it effectively twice the 128 speed, but coming from a 'spinning drive' any SSD is fast to me. In addition, I've heard that an external 256 GB or greater Thunderbolt 3 SSD is even faster than the internal 128 GB SSD! If I had the money I may have gone to the i5 to get to the faster write speed!
     
  7. DesterWallaboo macrumors 6502a

    DesterWallaboo

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    #407
    You're right... we should move to Windows instead.

    Can you point me where to buy this MacOS freeware?
     
  8. Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    #408
    If you're referring to MacOS, it is included on a new Mac.
     
  9. Bacillus, Dec 13, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018

    Bacillus Suspended

    Bacillus

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    #409
    No, these were just examples of lamenting B2B companies that ultimately lost support from alienated customers when they lamented their prominent position. They didn’t have fans that would try to assemble own hardware to compensate for their suppliers’ shortcomings and I would advise a Apple not to make such a hard stance to what I consider fanbase initiatives.
    So please explain me who’s a large scale exploiter of stolen Apple IP that disturbs the market so that it would deserve to be lawfully prosecuted.
    If T2 code protection is the response to block those few Robin Hoods trying to kick Phil’s non-innovative lower backside, they are spending customers money to defend their own lamentation and are even more intellectually bankrupt than I could figure.
     
  10. WC7 macrumors newbie

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    #410
    And all the 'standard' Mac applications are free, too!
     
  11. brofkand macrumors 6502

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    Jun 11, 2006
    #411
    Mirroring your data on iCloud is merely for convenience, it saves no space and it's not really even a backup since it's in sync with your local drive - an accidentally deleted or overwritten file on your Mac would also be replicated on iCloud.

    Take it from me, don't settle on a Mac just because you can afford it. Wait and save up until you can afford what you need.
     
  12. WC7 macrumors newbie

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    Dec 13, 2018
    #412
    Good advice on the 'wait and save' ... normally I do that ... but I needed to spend the money. Thank you for the information on that 'mirroring' comment ... I think I have the Optimize Mac Storage box selected and, hopefully, that will help keep me within my Mac mini storage limit. Experiment in frugality!
     
  13. Sabelonada, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018

    Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    #413
    I didn’t say large scale but nice try to move the goalposts.

    There is at least one example in this very thread of someone boasting about building Hackintosh computers because they found the prices too high. They aren’t building them for personal use but to use in a business environment. I will grant that they are building higher spec machines, but their own posts mention cost as being a reason.

    This means that someone sees the value in MacOS and is willing to steal it to use on their own hardware. Someone has to pay Apple for all the development in MacOS and it isn’t pirates and thieves like that. It is those who actually buy Macs. The effect may be negligible in the final price, but if someone is building higher spec machines those would be higher margin machines from Apple.

    I understand frustration with Apple because they update the Mac lineup at what seems like a glacial pace. The neglect Apple has demonstrated in this regard is readily apparent in the multiple years between updates in the Mac mini and Mac Pro. The Mac Pro needs a modern take on the upgradable tower. The innovative trash can was an exercise in cool looking futility.

    I don’t take exception to a Hackintosh on a personal, hobby level. I even see the value that it provides in helping owners of older Macs run a more modern version. But I think Apple is well within their rights to make theft of their IP as difficult as possible. Do you leave your car and home unlocked?
     
  14. Bacillus, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018

    Bacillus Suspended

    Bacillus

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    #414
    Take the missed profits of all Hackintoshed machines, multiply it by 10, and then still it is compensated by the interest on the interest of the truckload of money Apple grabbed from customers - piling up as it refuses to re-invest into Mac HW competitiveness.

    Again: If T2 code protection is the response to that, they are spending customer’s money to defend their own lamentation and are even more intellectually bankrupt than I could figure.

    Indeed, you shouldn’t leave your car unlocked but if someone decides to take that bigger car next to it, or most of your family and pension, it counts less.
     
  15. Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    #415
    I truly don’t understand the mentality that because they are successful they are wrong to defend their intellectual property.

    I don’t know that the T2 will be used in such a manner, but it certainly seems possible. It’s already possible using CPU serial numbers.

    Your response about cars does not address the theft that is occurring.
     
  16. moovyphreak, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018

    moovyphreak macrumors newbie

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    Aug 7, 2012
    #416
    What are you asking... can you connect a Microsoft product to the Mac mini and use both OSes? No. Can you use both products separately? Yes.

    If you want the best of both worlds, get a Mac laptop and load Windows 10 on it with Apple's Boot Camp feature (switching between OSes takes a reboot) or install VMware or Parallels to run Windows in a virtual environment within MacOS.
     
  17. DesterWallaboo macrumors 6502a

    DesterWallaboo

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    #417
    Awesome... I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars with Apple over the past two decades. Glad to know where I can get it.
     
  18. LeeW macrumors 6502

    LeeW

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    Glasgow, Scotland
    #418
    Of course, you have, that is how everyone justifies a Hackintosh.
     
  19. DesterWallaboo macrumors 6502a

    DesterWallaboo

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    #419
    Don't worry yourself too much. We are likely going to be moving full Windows over the next 24 months. Not by choice, but because Apple has been killing off necessary API's for the apps we need.
     
  20. LCC0256 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Martinez, GA. USA
    #420
    12 years ago I bought an Apple computer because I was tired of virus attacks on my Microsoft PC's and the hellish experience of customer disservice. I was also drawn by the fact that those whom I considered computer savvy seemed to prefer them. (I guess they could be considered part of the "pro" users.) I respected their opinions then and now.

    I have never been disappointed with my purchases. BUT I am not a professional. My children used Macs all through middle, high school, and college. (2 computers each in 12 years) I have used 2 Macs also during that time and they BOTH still are highly functional and serve my purposes to this day.

    I am going to purchase a Mac mini with i7/128/16 because my 12 year old MBP used as the family media server is getting a little long in the tooth. My iMac is still humming along fine (Core duo 2 w/ upgrade to SSD and 8 MB RAM) but surely one day will give it up. The Mac mini is meant to replace those.

    My work computer 2012 MBP non retina upgraded with SSD and 16 MB RAM works everyday of his life & goes from completely off to ready to gallop in 22 seconds. Handles my limited requests as a construction sub contractor with ease. (Downloading drawings, plans & specs on nearly all size buildings) Of course I do the normal e mail web browsing, purchasing & payroll on it too. So obviously my requirements are pale in comparison to those who need their Macs for high end use.

    I can understand their frustration. I read many posts all over the net with the same reoccurring themes. And it was the "professional user" whose influence (thankfully) led me to Apple. I am now a loyal Apple Computer customer.

    The update to the Mac mini came in the nick of time for me. I already own a decent monitor along with a wireless Apple keyboard and Magic Mouse. So the 1500 dollars I am investing (and it IS an investment for me) should (with my history) last another 10 years. When my 2012 MBP reaches his last computation - I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

    Heres hoping that the Mac Pro coming out next year - hits it out of the park with the pro users. I do think it is a good idea and makes good business sense for Apple to save a dance for the lady who brought them!!!
     
  21. Bacillus, Dec 15, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

    Bacillus Suspended

    Bacillus

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    #421
    The major (sadly legalised) theft that you’re overlooking is the covert, 20 year long transfer of (former) Mac profits into iDevice development, real estate, unnecessary luxury, avoided taxes, and hundreds of billions piled up with undecided purpose.
    All money invested by customers, who paid premium for the Mac as they expected that business to stay competitive.
    This money didn’t go into dividends, wasn’t being back-invested in top-performing Mac hardware.
    So now we’re in a vacuum of underperforming, fluffy upgrades designed with huge margins in mind because that’s what Apple got addicted to.
    So crying over spilt milk of 0.0000...1% lost MacOS turnover is useless as the tank itself has been wide open for years and years.

    Apple must become 100% committed and with relevant HW updates first.
    There must more viable, competitive grounds to stay in the market than locking customers up in a closed eco-system (becoming an eco-jail)
    Regain the K12/edu segment with a competitive environment to win back the younger generation instead of overcharging and losing them to the Chrome or Windows world.
    Same for the BtoB segment - still owned by Google/MSoft.
    Stop waning about tens of Hackintosh individuals while they’re alienating millions of their own, founding customers.
    Look at the root cause of the problem: Who would take a complex and risky Hackintosh route when real Mac hardware would be competitive ?
     
  22. Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    Aug 1, 2018
    #422
    Looking at the revenue, it seems that there is no theft of revenue from Mac sales to iOS device sales. Their revenue went from $37.4 billion in 2008 to, $42.9 billion in 2009, to $65.2 in 2010, to $108.2 in 2011, to $156.5 in 2012. Notice that the revenue explosion coincides with the rise of the iPhone to smart phone dominance. iOS devices are obviously the life blood of Apple now. They would not have arrived at the position of most valuable company in the world (depending on the day) on Mac revenue alone.

    The Mac mini is not an under performing machine. It is quite capable given the form factor. The form factor is a continuation of the previous design due to the customers who have invested in rack mounting large numbers of them.

    I agree, Apple should release more timely updates to the Mac line up. Their neglect of the Mac Pro and Mac mini until recently are embarrassing for a technology company. However that is not justification for piracy of the Mac OS. Such piracy does affect the price for legitimate Mac buyers.

    I wonder if Apple would be better off open sourcing or licensing Mac OS on the desktop front. Their design in the laptop arena results in a high market share. However their neglect in other areas leads to the outright theft of their OS and loss of hardware revenue. I don't think Apple really wants to compete solely on their design and engineering in the Mac arena. Otherwise they would have continued to license Mac OS like they did previously.

    However, given that their is much more revenue in iOS devices, perhaps opening Mac OS is the best way forward. Perhaps keep certain technologies for their own devices; for example iMessage, Safari link sharing, et cetera, their office suite. These are technologies which make the Apple environment cohesive. Then hardware providers could supply drivers as the OS is release. I realize this is highly unlikely because Apple doesn't seem to embrace open technologies.
     
  23. Bacillus, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    Bacillus Suspended

    Bacillus

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    #423
    Agree with your turnover analysis. But the conclusion is wrong where it comes to profit appropriation. The Mac industry was very profitable and profits didn’t go back to it. Moreover, it became a launch attribute for the iDevice explosion with lots of engineering staff and knowledge being transferred or reattributed via ad-hoc groups (many never to return) and it hasn’t been treated as a separate profit center/business unit. Financially nor operations-wise. Which is a delusion/deceit to all Mac customers.
    Mac Mini: not bad by 2015/16 standards, but sadly obsoleted by current cpu and RAM/SSD price/performance. MacBook Air: same, underdimensioned not to pale out MB/MBPro.
    Wish we had a rack mounted machine (and a solid strategy that would have helped investment decisions after the Xserver demise)
    Apple’s tenure makes it the last option to rely on in BtoB.
    Again: apart from pure fun hackers, there would be no single serious developer/pro customer relying on hackintosh if MacPro’s were competitive/expandable. These modern Robin Hoods prove the platform is not dead, but highly orphaned.
     
  24. Sabelonada macrumors regular

    Sabelonada

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    Aug 1, 2018
    #424
    I vaguely recall Steve Jobs (maybe Tim Cook) saying that talent is the biggest constraint on releasing new products. Given the massive amount of capital Apple has, it's still probably true. They made the decision to put their talent into the most profitable area, the iOS environment. This isn't profit theft. I don't doubt that talent has been shuffled around. I think there are even stories on this site to that effect.

    The Mac mini is not obsolete. The 8th gen Intel series is pretty much state of the art. The 9th gen chips aren't readily available. The fact is offers a 10Gb Ethernet option makes it class leading in that regard. It also has an incredible amount of IO with the 4 TB3 ports. It isn't a 2015/2016 machine.

    If you're referring to the base i3 model with 128GB of SSD, I doubt that's meant for consumers. I think that's the fleet/corporate/rack farm model. This was meant for render farms and Mac as a service companies. In those scenarios, the 128GB SSD is probably adequate as storage will probably be accessed through an upgraded 10GB Ethernet port.

    This places the "consumer entry" model to the $1099 i5. It isn't cheap, but I think that's what Apple views as the starting place for everyday Mac users.

    The memory/storage prices for the Mac mini are pretty consistent with all of the Mac lineup. Expensive upgrades in those areas shouldn't be any surprise.

    I don't know if there's a market for it, but I would love a Mac between the Mac mini and Mac Pro. Offer desktop CPUs with a handful of PCI slots and upgradable memory. I think that machine would cannibalize too many Pro sales however. I imagine it would be quite popular even if it did only come with soldered SSD and CPU.
     
  25. DesterWallaboo macrumors 6502a

    DesterWallaboo

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    #425
    THIS!!^^^
     

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