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I cannot fathom why anyone would buy a Mac for pro use. They are so under powered it's truly comical. I wouldn't touch any pro PC with less than a 1080Ti these days, and realistically I'd want to be in 2080 territory with 10gb+ of VRAM and 64gb of system RAM.

Right, because professional use automatically equates to GPU performance. I had an Aorus DT-X7 sitting here, 8GB GTX-1080, 32GB, etc., for my current and future professional use cases (personal computing for that matter ...), it wasn't being utilized (actually sold it as I have a closeted desktop I can fire back up if I have the need). Even for certain applications I'm involved with that necessitate significant compute power, it's not being done locally.

Just to be clear, you're talking to a dev/architect/writer who's been a known quantity in the industry for ~30 years, so it's not like I'm saying these things without notable experience and subject matter expertise. :)
 
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"Unfortunately, as with many Apple products, the Mac mini is not really user upgradeable. You can upgrade the RAM, but you need to take the entire machine apart, which is tricky. The CPU and SSD, meanwhile, are soldered in place and can't be upgraded after purchase."

The drive and the GPU can be upgraded externally very easily.
 
A lot of you are forgetting businesses who don't want to use grinder Windows computers buy these up like hot cakes.

I know because our business switched to 2014 Mac minis a year ago and will probably re-up with these. They are fantastic for macOS and business tasks with an SSD.
[doublepost=1542205157][/doublepost]Another thing I noticed is the different reality online vs actually owning one.

I had a 2012 DUAL core mini and used InDesign/Photoshop/RAW Files on it NO PROBLEM.
 
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Apple didn't even directly tap into the eGPU market - again - they left that to the aftermarket, wouldn't greed drive them to make their own, non-upgradable, aesthetically matching eGPU for $999?

...well, the BlackMagic eGPUs are exclusive to the Apple Store, so its not like Apple won't be getting a rakeoff on every sale. Plus, Apple's recent policy has been about not making peripherals, just computers.

Incidentally, something like the Sonnet Breakaway Puck - which can be VESA-mounted behind a display - sounds like a more sensible companion for the Mini - pity about the power brick - but what it really needs is an affordable basic "better than Intel 630" eGPU in a stackable case with just enough grunt to be sure of giving adequate 2D performance on a couple of 4k or 5k displays. If it can be TB bus-powered from the Mini that's even better (it either can or it can't).

Meanwhile, they may well launch a range of Apple eGPUs if/when the Mythical Modular Mac Pro appears - or a display with a GPU built in. The MMMP might even turn out to be a "fat mini" with a Xeon chip.

Then there's "greed" in terms of wanting to make dead sure that people don't buy a $1100 Mini when they could be buying a $2500 iMac... OK, that's justifiable in a for-profit company, but its very, very dependent on exploiting customer loyalty. I think the only people who are going to buy Mac Minis are the ones for whom switching to Windows and/or Linux is unthinkable.

The sweet spot for the new Mini just seem to be "cluster computing" or MacOS co-locating - which, indeed, was a "thing" with the old Mini - but I find it hard to believe that was Apple's justification for updating the Mini, and again, you have to really, really want to use MacOS, in these days of Docker and Amazon Elastic Clouds...

(If only Apple had an innovative cluster-computing product... https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/xgrid-officially-dead.1412900/ - or even a server edition of MacOS https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/30/apple-kills-essential-services-macos-server/)

I suspect that the real raison-d'etre of the new Mini is that if they dropped it they'd have no apple-branded device for MacOS and iOS "mobile device management" - although I believe other cross-platform/cloud solutions from the likes of IBM exist.
 
This article is a bit thin. isn't it? You basicaly just list the specs which are present on the Apple page.

I would be highly interested in the heat/throttling behaviour of a maxed out mac Mini. Can you do any tests in that regard?
 
"Unfortunately, as with many Apple products, the Mac mini is not really user upgradeable. You can upgrade the RAM, but you need to take the entire machine apart, which is tricky. The CPU and SSD, meanwhile, are soldered in place and can't be upgraded after purchase."

The drive and the GPU can be upgraded externally very easily.

And I for one wouldn't keep anything I care about potentially recovering, on an internally soldered T2-influenced SSD. The machine goes bang and you're SOL.
 
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I know I’m in the minority on this thread, but I’m putting this out there nevertheless: I purchased a new mini, i7, 16GB, 1GB SSD and the Ethernet upgrade. It absolutely hit the sweet spot for my use case and after using it for a week or so, I have absolutely no complaints. I’ve been watching iStat Menus and haven’t seen any overheating. No throttling I can see. Here’s my Geekbench:


2CEF5D33-DC42-431F-947E-DA05B6CE88B2.jpeg
 
Spot on, everyone saying "oh but you can plug in an eGPU". You are spending up to a minimum of $800 on a computer you shouldn't need to plug anything in to do basic stuff. It's a 2 year old on-board chip, let alone being any good.

This is not Intel's fault despite what most would like to claim. There is room for a basic dedicated GPU, hell make it a little bigger and fit something worthy of people spending that amount of money on it.

You can't do "basic stuff" on the $800 Mini? Like web browsing, email, spreadsheets, word processing, home automation, maps, listening to music, presentation software, and on and on? Not basic stuff?

The Mini was designed to be compact, flexible, and versatile. Is there another compact computer out there with four TB-3 40Gb/sec ports, two USB-A 3 ports, HDMI 2.0, Bluetooth 5.0, a 10Gb/sec ethernet port option, a built-in power supply, AND, a high performance GPU? For $800?

It's not intended to provide outrageous GPU numbers to give some bragging rights about having the fastest and most bad-a$$ gaming system around.
 
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Played with one at the Apple Store. Remarkably fast, a very noticeable performance bump in ordinary, daily jobs. I think the SSD prices are pretty outragous - with USB C bandwidth, it would make sense to get the base i7 with 256GB internal; then drop $~300 to bump it to 32 GB SoDIMM and then add an external SSD/HDD.

USB C has a bandwidth of about 5-10 Gbps (depending upon Generation); which is more than adequate for external drive speeds.


I'd rather opt of the cooler i5 with 512 ssd(just like the option of bootcamp).
 
I'm not sure if you've heard of the RX Vega M GH, but it's basically a special integrated AMD solution that comes with the 8809G i7 Intel chip. This thing is unbelievable for an integrated solution and it just blows away any integrated Intel solution available sometimes by an order of magnitude. We're talking VR ready, somewhere just below a desktop Nvidia 1060 in benchmarks, look up the benchmarks it's really a marvel.

The best part is that it's available in certain small form-factor PCs such as the Intel Hades Canyon NUC (which is smaller than the mac mini by volume and also includes more ports). I believe that Apple had a great opportunity to include this chip (or one such similar technology) and they really missed the boat here. This is such a special chip because of the collaboration between AMD and Intel, it's really remarkable.

So to say "blame intel" is not really entirely fair. Apple had other choices, but they decided not to pursue them.
And the i5 8600 is a more powerful CPU by a great margin. Given the fact that Apple mentioned clustering these together, the Vega M would be wasted in that configuration. This machine is not meant to be a graphics powerhouse. This machine is meant to be a compact computing appliance.
 
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I cannot fathom why anyone would buy a Mac for pro use. They are so under powered it's truly comical. I wouldn't touch any pro PC with less than a 1080Ti these days, and realistically I'd want to be in 2080 territory with 10gb+ of VRAM and 64gb of system RAM.
[doublepost=1542201943][/doublepost]

Given that NVidia have been making mobile 1080s for well over a year with near desktop performance, Apple have no excuse.

GPU power matters. It matters a LOT. Nobody should be working with anything under 10tFlop of GPU in a pro capacity anymore.

The cost of a desktop NVIDIA GeForce 1080Ti FE GPU from NVIDIA's own website is $699. Most of the ones I found on New Egg are pushing $799 and up, which is the cost of the base model Mac mini. Even going with an ATX board to get 4 DIMM slots to keep the cost down, the 4x16GB DDR4 (64GB) is going to run roughly $600 for good quality G.Skill DDR4 3200 sale or no sale.

So you are already at $1,300.00 USD for a GPU and 64GB of DRAM in your Pro machine and you do not have a CPU, a motherboard, a case, a PSU, storage, an operating system, any sort of cooling for the above components, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, et al.

Adding those to make a complete computer is going to add roughly $1,100.00 to the $1,300.00, which gets us to $2,400.00 USD pretty fast.

NVIDIA's "mobile" GPUs use anywhere from 34w-64w (GTX 1050/1050Ti) all the way up to 90w-150w (GTX 1080), which are not going to fit inside of a Mac mini chassis give the power and thermal constraints. The end cost to the user for a mobile GTX1080 would be close to $500-$600 as a BTO item, even if it was possible to put one in there, which is would not, at least not within the existing mini chassis and retain a built-in PSU, the slim form factor and a 65w CPU.

"Nobody should be working with anything under a 10 TFlops GPU in a pro capacity anymore" Really? Because that equates to a Titan X from 2016, which cost $1200.00 alone.

It seems your sole criteria for whether a computer is "Pro" is the amount of GPU power that it contains, which is narrow-minded, to say the least. While visual creative comprise a large amount of the Professional market, they are not the only Pros who need to get work done. There are many Pros, even creative Pros, who do not need 10 TFlops of GPU horsepower.

People with complex Excel calculations for financial modeling and forecasts, currency and trading need more CPU cores and DRAM, with just enough GPU power to drive multiple monitors.

Audio pros need more CPU cores and DRAM depending on how many tracks they are working with, and may even need DSPs for their virtual instruments, but only need enough GPU to drive the monitors showing the tracks they are working with, which is hardly worth 10 TFlops and $1200 worth of GPU.

As for video production, the UHD 630 and its QuickSync engine provide plenty of hardware acceleration for certain tasks, and because video encoding is a new function for the T2 in the Mac mini, we may see even more performance as Applications are updated to take advantage of the T2 chip.

That being said, for some, an eGPU may be a necessary addition to their workflow at some point. The Mac mini will work for some as is, but not for others, just like any other computer ever built. It will be interesting to see how the mini does months down the road when more are sold and users find new and interesting ways for molding it to their particular workflow.
 
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Wonder if the hackers (Hackintoshers) will, down the line, figure out a way to disable the T2 chip!
Why would they need to? They won't put together devices with a T2. The will have to figure out how to bypass it.

I wonder if there are DCMA implications in circumventing the chip.
 
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I know I’m in the minority on this thread, but I’m putting this out there nevertheless: I purchased a new mini, i7, 16GB, 1GB SSD and the Ethernet upgrade. It absolutely hit the sweet spot for my use case and after using it for a week or so, I have absolutely no complaints. I’ve been watching iStat Menus and haven’t seen any overheating. No throttling I can see. Here’s my Geekbench:


View attachment 804051
You are in the minority. You based your review on real life experiences other than just pining on perceived flaws based on specs.
 
I swapped out my 2012 i7 for the i5 256gb over the weekend. Seeing the benchmarks for the i7 I didn't think it justified an extra $200. Those extra 2 cores make a huge difference even without hyper-threading. I am hoping this thing will sit quietly in its spot and not trouble me until 2024. I may treat it to a GPU in 2020 if it behaves itself.


Yep those extra cores is what you really want especially long term. Back in 2012 you had to get the i7 because the i5 only had 2 cores to begin with. Different story these days. I'm extremely wary of all high end chips(non Xeon) in Macs for a while as they will run much hotter. I knew something similar to the MBP throttle gate would happen as soon as they announce the specs. It happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong...if you NEED the HT then by all means grab one but don't be surprised if its not as quit as you would like.
 
This is just pure lies and easily disproved. You can see countless videos online with people running all 6 cores on the i5 version for extended period of time at 100% and it’s NOT throtteling
Who sent you?
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The new i3 is better than the last years i5. consider that
[doublepost=1542179200][/doublepost]


This Mac mini will beat your 10yo Mac on EVERY level. Don’t come here talking about pro users and then work on your ancient Mac Pro with usb 2.0 ports and a slow a$$ sata ssd

Um, this is last year's i3 and i5, so no, the i3 isn't better. Of course this year's 9th gen processors are in low supply so it's good Apple didn't use them.

Even comparing 8th gen i3 to 7th gen i5 the comparison isn't accurate. Saying the 8th gen i5 8600 is more powerful than the 7th gen i7 7700 is true.
 
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