Hands-On With Apple's New 2019 Mac Pro

[atomic.flip]

Are you in the creator/film industry RP? And by that I don't mean do you have a Youtube channel, but do you work at an actual network or studio, or a production company that provides content to a network or studio?

Because no one in gfx or the edit suites at my network see the value in changing our upgrading our present set up (HP workstations for edit suites, trashcans for gfx suites) to the new Mac Pro. The consensus opinion seems to be that the marginal benefit of upgrading is minimal to nonexistent while the marginal cost is jaw-dropingly high. What information are you speaking of that we all supposedly lack?

THANK YOU! Finally, someone who isn't bs'ing and clearly does work in the film industry.

And yes many post production editors (especially the independent contractors that move from project to project extol the virtues of the "trash can" as they can slap it into a back/pack commute to the worksite and hook into a keyboard / mouse to do on site work and then take the machine home to continue working in their home office.

The trash can is still a very respectable video work station. (With exception to the very flakey display port support for 4K resolutions).

 

[victorm1]

this is outdated thinking. Whilst cuda is a current thing. All pro software developers have come out in support or metal and will be releasing new versions to use the Mac Pro.

“Yeah boss I bought a machine that doesn’t support CUDA for 20k but just wait Metal is the next big thing!”

When you use computers for work and not as toys, things like basic support matter.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Whoosh. Are you misunderstanding me on purpose? The point is that if an A13 chip can already outperform The Xeon for some tasks in a much smaller space with no active cooling, using way less power, Imagine what it could do in a package more like a Mac Pro.

You going to run Premiere or Final Cut on that A-WHATEVER device (irrespective of device size or shape)?

There is no software and no market for the machine you are talking about because it doesn't exist.

And even if it exists at some point, Apple will charge a gazillion dollars for it--same as they do for the Mac Pro, so no, I don't know what you are talking about.

This machine, right now, is a beast and is a good value depending on the config.

I love that buying a "base model" Mac Pro makes you look poor or cheap....it's like owning a Ferrari in a Lamborghini neighborhood. Funny.

It's like buying a Ferrari with zero options.

 

[cult hero]

The sad thing is that it CAN compete. I agree it shouldn’t, but it does. The iPhone is faster at many things than the base model Mac Pro.

Uhh... workstation class hardware is always disproportionately expensive. Xeons and ECC memory alone are just pricier. The scale for performance is not linear. Workstation class hardware based machines are aimed at people who meet both of the following:

1. Need performance greater than consumer grade hardware.
2. Absorb a fair amount of the cost via tax write-offs.

This isn’t just Apple. This is all high end workstations. 99% of the people who will actually buy this do not care one bit about how it compares to something built from parts in NewEgg.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Ok. I'm gonna chime in here cause there is a lot of bs being flung around here.

The new Mac pro has the potential to be a beast. But yes, the pricing is beyond ridiculous. When fully specced it begins to cost enough to start considering a mainframe, which is appropriate for a data center. The current MacPro form factor is made to sit beside or under a desk. It is basically something to be purchased not because you need it but because you want to show it off.

To everyone who is claiming to know what they are talking about please list the specific work you do, projects you have personally been involved with and what your role was.

So I'll begin. I am a partner (CTO/CRO) at a business strategy / technology consulting firm. We work with nearly every industry and I personally have worked with the film industry for about 15 years directly. I do not perform rendering work but I (and those who work for me) do have the expertise to advise on appropriate configurations for various workloads.

The new MacPro is NOT a piece of hardware we would recommend. First of all, while Metal has addressed some of the MASSIVE shortfalls that MacOS has had for decades with respect to multi-GPU workloads. (eg. the OS had no native support for multi-GPU and anything accessing the second GPU needed low level coding / custom APIs to make use of them)

Apple did invest some effort to enhance apps like Final Cut to support such GPU configurations but it ultimately has suffered tremendously from the UI and workflow change since version X was released. So most of the industry has abandoned Final Cut in favor of Adobe Premiere for video editing.

For rendering..... Well... There just isn't anything that runs on MacOS that is even worth mentioning.

For CAD work and Video editing the MacPro is fine but woefully priced out of reach.

Also, real machine learning and AI based video analysis / rendering tools run on various private and public cloud based clusters that use thin web layers like Hadoop to manage the cluster and distribute the workload.

I personally have not seen any of these support AMD GPUs. That is not to say they should not and will never but as of today they do not.

Also the Quadro GPUs are tuned to 3D rendering and yes the new RTX based systems are far superior for raytracing which is essential to modern rendering for photorealistic results.

Nvidia also now has Tesla GPUs that are tuned to Machine Learning and similar applications. They are absolutely the way to go for video analysis tasks.

These are the GPUs you can cram into a system running up to 8 in tandem (for example on a specific HP DL380 configuration). They run on passive cooling and basically sip power so they don't need tremendous amounts of wattage to do their jobs.

Lastly there are the Nvidia GRID offerings which are massive clusters of GPUs (think of this like the industrial version of SLI/multi-GPU configurations. Major rendering studios may invest in these and others may lease access to these clusters in cloud providers like AWS.

My firm has specced and facilitated the design, build and implementation of such systems spanning all three scenarios for entertainment, engineering, higher-ed, scientific (physics) analysis and medical (A/I) image processing.

The new MacPro IS not currently a recommended system. And it likely won't be.

Apple does have what seems to be a rack mountable chassis that will be released at some point in the future and that may be a different story entirely.

So all this arguing about hypotheticals is bs and you guys could benefit greatly from discussing facts and realities.

Now on a personal note, I want one of these nearly 60K setups just because it would be fun to brag and show it off. I'd probably never touch even 1 percent of it's capabilities but hey Apple has never been known for offering cutting edge computing solutions except in the area of their ARM based mobile CPUs.

Time will tell what happens. But if Apple have real intent to service these targeted industries then they need to seriously consider pricing alternatives.

I would recommend abstaining from a direct purchase and leasing a system to test and evaluate for 2-3 years.

Do you think it will make Word and Outlook any faster for me? Because that's what I am looking for.

 

[theluggage]

My thinking is that surely everybody using this machine has a Thunderbolt connection to an Audio Interface with studio speakers and a proper studio Headphone Out.

Everybody who is doing serious audio work (or anything serious to do with sound on video) - yes.

Everybody who ever wants to hear sound from their computer on any occasion (e.g. watch an instruction video/podcast, take part in a conference call) - not so much. That internal speaker is going to be barely adequate for system beeps and I don't see any speakers listed in the specs of that $5000 display, either.

Do you know what "just works" in that situation (no pairing, no interference from/with USB3 or other electronics, no batteries in the headset/speakers that you only use once a month, no audio lag...)? Ans: a good old 3.5mm jack for headphones or garden variety external speakers. Probably adds a whole 50 cents to the cost of the MP, and it's not like its a phone where space is at a premium.

I'm sorry if a 3.5mm audio jack broke into your house and cooked your pet rabbit. 99.7% of headphone jacks aren't evil - and its not going to be the thing that trigger your trypophobia with that Swiss-cheese radiator grill sitting there. If you don't need it, just leave it alone and it won't harm you.

 

[yurc]

I am not those pros (film industry or such), but my older 2012 cheese grater especially in single thread operation was painful. Glad to see 2019 Mac Pro released but that’s out of my reach. I set around $5000 budget for upgrading workstation. But I don’t want iMac.

Intel's Cascade Lake-X CPU for High-End Desktops: 18 cores for Under $1000

www.anandtech.com

If news above was true…they should be perform similarly in raw processing power with Mac Pro, just with all Xeon perks disabled and only 256 GB RAM maxed out.

The only challenge is finding ‘proper’ workstation board without RGB bling stuff ( I don’t need them) and I might switch to Windows for working purpose. Generally doing everyday stuff was more pleasant on Mac but my current Mac is lacking power when heavy lifting required.

When Cascade Lake-X launched, I have no choice but probably I would to build PC again…for novelty stuff I need to source an G5 enclosure to retrofit them to amuse myself lol.

Poor-man Mac Pro, I guess (future plan)

Core i9-10980XE 18C / 36T
128 GB DDR4 RAM / 4 x 32 GB sticks non ECC
GPU : any midrange Radeon Pro / Quadro for hooking 4K Wacom Cintiq
Motherboard without bling bling eyesore
Windows 10 for Workstation (suitable for high core count CPUs and less sucks than standard Windows)
G5 enclosure (because roomier compared than 2008/2010/2012 MP enclosure)
Quality air fans / cooler

I would love to trying Zen/Threadripper but I prefer Intel so I can play around with hackintosh in spare times. Not priority though. No gaming but I might do mild overclocking without degrading stability.

 

[theluggage]

I don't really understand why people here are so adamant about defending the price point of the Mac Pro.

Because, apart from the niche for whom the trashcan actually worked out (and they do exist), the target market for the new Mac Pro is people who have been loyally soldiering on without a credible 'pro' headless workstation since the last decent update to the old Mac Pro tower in about 2010.

Anybody for whom an iMac/Mini/MBP won't cut it and isn't either practically or philosophically 100% committed to MacOS left the building a long time ago.

 

[konqerror]

I don't really understand why people here are so adamant about defending the price point of the Mac Pro. If you (a) know specifically what you are looking for (b) don't rely on macOS and (c) don't care about Apple's services then there is no question that you can get a far more performant machine for a fraction of the costs of a Mac Pro.

Which is completely wrong. And that's the point. If you compare like-to-like and spec a name-brand PC workstation with similar performance, reliability, scalability, acoustics, support/TCO, you get a computer that's within the typical Apple tax, i.e. 20-30%. Not a "fraction".

In all of these arguments, nobody has speced an HP Z, Dell Precision, or Lenovo ThinkStation to a reasonable midrange configuration to compare the price.

The issue is we have a bunch of jealous broke kids and armchair pros comparing a gaming PC they built from parts to a workstation with 1.5 TB RAM capacity. The capability of the latter has real costs.

It's like comparing a $20,000 sedan to a $250,000 city bus. The car gets you to the same place faster, for less fuel, so let's scream that people who buy a bus are stupid.

 

[carrrrrlos]

That’s an expensive metal box.
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Any rumors on the next iMac Pro?

 

[whiteonline]

I think Apple is (intentionally?) creating lots of thirst for the new Mac Pro. In a year or so, I’m anticipating a more consumer friendly model will be revealed. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.

Edit:
Maybe they’ll call it the Mac.

 

[atomic.flip]

Uhh... workstation class hardware is always disproportionately expensive. Xeons and ECC memory alone are just pricier. The scale for performance is not linear. Workstation class hardware based machines are aimed at people who meet both of the following:

1. Need performance greater than consumer grade hardware.
2. Absorb a fair amount of the cost via tax write-offs.

This isn’t just Apple. This is all high end workstations. 99% of the people who will actually buy this do not care one bit about how it compares to something built from parts in NewEgg.

The first half of your post is accurate but no it’s not about Tax write offs LOL.

Enterprise hardware has a greater cost due to the generally longer warranty periods (minimum 5 years), somewhat enhanced service response times, and most importantly the claimed reliability of the hardware.

To use an example without exact/accurate numbers:

An iMac might be rated for operation without failure for 5,000 hours in total, with the expectation that it be power cycled in a reasonable manner (typical of a consumer).

A MacPro could be rated at 10,000 hours of continuous, uninterrupted operation. No power cycles etc.

This is always an important consideration for rack mount hardware in a data center.

 

[hundefjes]

Which is completely wrong. And that's the point. If you compare like-to-like and spec a name-brand PC workstation with similar performance, reliability, scalability, acoustics, support/TCO, you get a computer that's within the typical Apple tax, i.e. 20-30%. Not a "fraction".

In all of these arguments, nobody has speced an HP Z, Dell Precision, or Lenovo ThinkStation to a reasonable midrange configuration to compare the price.

The issue is we have a bunch of jealous broke kids and armchair pros comparing a gaming PC they built from parts to a workstation with 1.5 TB RAM capacity. The capability of the latter has real costs.

It's like comparing a $20,000 sedan to a $250,000 city bus. The car gets you to the same place faster, for less fuel, so let's scream that people who buy a bus are stupid.

Yes, Dell/Lenovo/HP make overpriced enterprise workstations for procurement divisions to make safe choices, but trying to emulate that is not a very compelling argument for the Mac Pro imo.

 

[atomic.flip]

Do you think it will make Word and Outlook any faster for me? Because that's what I am looking for.

Oh yes! Without question! LOL
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My thinking is that surely everybody using this machine has a Thunderbolt connection to an Audio Interface with studio speakers and a proper studio Headphone Out. I mean, the bandwidth of that 3.5 mm jack is crap. It was designed for the 19th century telephone system, lol.

LOL. Ok. I’ve been writing music longer than anything else I’ve done professionally (28 years to be exact, and yes my stuff is published but anyway) there aren’t a whole lot of Thunderbolt audio interfaces.

USB there are plenty of. But guess what... good old FireWire always operated with ZERO problems. So I still use recording hardware with that sort of interface. But sadly the software support for those devices are nearly entirely dead so I will be retiring them soon.

 

[cyberslammer]

Only plays Duke Nukem 3D at 4fps...I'm returning it.

 

[Duane Martin]

And since Afterburner only supports the ProRes codec, the editors here (including myself) see little advantage in spending $6000 (minimum!) per workstation to replace computers that work fine as they are for new computers that will truly shine only if we switch to Final Cut X (which will never, ever happen.)

Premiere Pro, Media Composer, Scratch, Edius, Colorfront, Telestream, and more have introduced support for or have said they will support ProRes RAW in the very near future. Most of these already support other flavours of ProRes, which is a pretty common industry standard. Not sure why you would think this is a strictly FCP X thing?

If I were a small to medium shop that used ProRes I would be seriously looking at how the new Mac Pro with an Afterburner card could help speed up my current workflow and allow me to be ready for the demands of a >4K workflow future.

 

[mi7chy]

If you need ECC and server grade CPU just go for an AMD EPYC. Take you gaming PC, install a new motherboard and a EPYC CPU and there you go.

You don't need AMD Epyc or Threadripper since Ryzen 3000 already supports ECC along with 10Gb ethernet, Thunderbolt 3 and PCIe 4.0 (only PCIe 3.0 on 2019 Mac Pro) so it's comparable if not a slight upgrade to the 2019 Mac Pro. Epyc is for High Performance Computing so it's in a much higher league.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570 Creator/index.us.asp#Specification
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I would love to trying Zen/Threadripper but I prefer Intel so I can play around with hackintosh in spare times. Not priority though. No gaming but I might do mild overclocking without degrading stability.

Hackintosh also runs on AMD and is supposedly even easier/quicker to install. New kernel fixes iMessage, Siri, Facetime and Continuity mentioned in video.

https://github.com/AMD-OSX/AMD_Vanilla

 

[hankydysplasia]

FYIW -
Playing by the rules and introducing my credentials - I have done a significant amount of photography, and minimal videography. I play games but don't build a system based on gaming. I use Lightroom, Bridge, and Photoshop. I strongly prefer MacOS for workflow and device integration reasons, but they are not required. I have used a MacPro a long time ago (2004 range?), a MacBook Pro (2009) and my last computer was from 2011 was a hackintosh. The 2011 hackintosh has very poor performance in lightroom, particularly with multiple tasks running. My needs are multiple cores (performance would scale pretty well with upgrade to a point), a little bit of GPU acceleration is nice, but not dramatically needed, and I need fast storage connections and large amount of RAM. Those are the primary performance items.
I waited for the Mac Pro to be released. I don't need 24 cores to do significant work so the baseline model is appropriate. 64GB of ram is enough. I would like 10GBe (2x on MacPro is great).
I configured a MacPro for me. It was $7700.

This is what I did instead.
I just finished assembling and installing Catalina on a Hackintosh. Buying components following a guide for mac compatibility took about 1 hour. Hardware install in my old case took about 2 hours. Software setup following a step-by-step guide took about 1 hour. In 4 hours and $1100, I have the exact same benchmark scores as this $7700 model I would have configured and 100% working OSX. I even did upgrade from 15.0 to 15.2 with no tweaking required. I would be paying $6600 for stability and a very very nice chassis.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

I personally loved the included safety seatbelts. But it won't drive you anywhere except the poorhouse.

 

[Tech198]

Of course, for the price, Apple must do a glossy manual (no one else gets), and a physical mouse as well.

I'm kinda a believer eventually companies do their own thing, but sooner or later their foced int this "PC design' phase, just because they how how good that looks.

I'm more interested in they made the packaging just as easy lol...

 

[Eorlas]

I am not talking about playing games. I am talking about bucketed raytracing rendering, in which case you do want 32 cores.

"You forgot to mention that a cheap midrange gaming PC with a Threadripper"

your first line was exactly that.

 

[mk_in_mke]

Whoosh. Are you misunderstanding me on purpose? The point is that if an A13 chip can already outperform The Xeon for some tasks in a much smaller space with no active cooling, using way less power, Imagine what it could do in a package more like a Mac Pro.

hi billrey

inhave to admit I admire your consistency and endurance. You haven’t stopped bashing and Rehashing the same BS in this forum. I am left with couple of thoughts:

* you either have an extremely slow pC that allows you to post on MR while you render
* you have an extremely fast PC that allows you to have free time
* your boss does not care about your productivity or you are not very busy at work
* you have no life besides your job because you spent so much Time on this MR thread

let us know...

in 2013, I bought the Trashcan and at this time, many people like you, you maybe, kept on bashing and bashing till no end. complaining About price, performance, form factor... I purposely posted the configuration I bought at the time, just to upset posters like you.

so here it is again

Last Tuesday, I went to my Apple store and bought
- the 12 core MP
- 2TB hard drive
- I settled for 48 gb of Ram
- added the XDR screen with nano coating ( what are $1000 after all?)
- ... I added the vega pro duo ( just $5k, a bargain)
- bought the stand for the screen (already received it, it is indeed beautiful to look at and only cost me $1000)
- I also added the Pegasus R4i for extra HD space (32 Tb that will turn into. Nice 24Tb or so of available space.) and it allows me to add to my promise Pegasus 2 disk array

So, what do I do with the Mac? Nothing much to be honest, Photoshop, DXO, Some FCP... just a regular hobbyist. Do I need that horsepower? Absolutely not!

i just like nice things, I am not like you a professional ( though I would welcome the opportunity to see what your gaming config allows you to do, share the link if you do not mind) I just have the money to spend after waiting 6 years for a line refresh. I will wait another 3-5 years using this machine, enjoying the power it provides me with for the foreseeable future.

so, when you ask who needs this type of configuration, I simply reply: not your concern, this machine is obviously not for you given the number of Messages you logged on this forum permanently bashing the MP. Just let it go, chill... keep on using what you have, enjoy and relax. Unless you want to be the person everyone here likes to not like?

will post a pic of the MP when received. The Vega Duo Pro is what is slowing the delivery.

 

[outskirtsofinfinity]

LOL. Ok. I’ve been writing music longer than anything else I’ve done professionally (28 years to be exact, and yes my stuff is published but anyway) there aren’t a whole lot of Thunderbolt audio interfaces.

USB there are plenty of. But guess what... good old FireWire always operated with ZERO problems. So I still use recording hardware with that sort of interface. But sadly the software support for those devices are nearly entirely dead so I will be retiring them soon.

Two years ago I bought a Focusrite Clarett 4Pre. It's Thunderbolt and has been working flawlessly, with incredibly low latency. I'm guessing there are more Thunderbolt interfaces today, two years later? USB units have too much latency for my use. Yeah, I have friends that suffer under the lack of driver support for FireWire...

 

[Billrey]

- ... I added the vega pro duo ( just $5k, a bargain)
- bought the stand for the screen (already received it, it is indeed beautiful to look at and only cost me $1000)

'A bargain' indeed.

'only cost me $1000'

So, what do I do with the Mac? Nothing much to be honest,

Yes, this confirms what I was saying. The Mac Pro is more a 'luxury' computer than a 'pro' computer.

 

[theluggage]

Who on earth buys a $50k computer to watch yoga videos?

What, you expect the MP target market of Social Media Influencers - who need to shoot their moving selfies in 8k and have $49,865 of ad income left over from their 5 minutes of fame (after paying Mom the token rent for the basement) - to read boring instructions on using FCPX when there are all those cool instructional videos out there on YouTube...? Oh, wait, you're right, their ears will already have grown around their AirPods...

Seriously, snark aside, there are actually some genuine uses for video and audio that don't involve cats doing yoga - and the only thing worse than watching yoga videos on a $50k computer is having a $50k computer and not being able to hear the pan pipes on your yoga video.