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They do look impressive but
£159 = $197

I would be interested in knowing how well they would sell at $197 for 'slightly better' sound.

£99 is a more realistic price.

Some good reviews though https://gavinsgadgets.com/ this chap is a forum member of http://www.head-fi.org/t/819581/airpods/45

Doesn't $197 include the VAT too? If that's the case, they're pretty much the same price as in the US.

Considering better sound is not the main selling point for this kind of headphone, not sure what your point is.

What they're trying to solve is the huge hastle of wires and BT pairing for those who hate those wires.
If you look at the competition in that area, they're more than competitive.
[doublepost=1482245190][/doublepost]
I would have thought for £160, audio quality should be the only metric this audio product should be measured on.

What your selling first is a fully wireless audio product with good battery life. For people buying these things, that's the main selling point. They then want the best audio they can while this first point has been resolved.

Apple is not selling this thing in a vacuum, people have been using various BT headphones and know their limitations. They understand some compromise are needed compared to a larger headphone, especially a wired one.

In engineering and product marketing, you always have to weight various design elements. You can't solve everything to the highest degree of satisfaction for everyone in the same product or service. You find your target market and serve this target market well and you got a winning product.
 
Doesn't $197 include the VAT too? If that's the case, they're pretty much the same price as in the US.

Considering better sound is not the main selling point for this kind of headphone, not sure what your point is.

What they're trying to solve is the huge hastle of wires and BT pairing for those who hate those wires.
If you look at the competition in that area, they're more than competitive.
[doublepost=1482245190][/doublepost]

What your selling first is a fully wireless audio product with good battery life. For people buying these things, that's the main selling point. They then want the best audio they can while this first point has been resolved.

Apple is not selling this thing in a vacuum, people have been using various BT headphones and know their limitations. They understand some compromise are needed compared to a larger headphone, especially a wired one.

In engineering and product marketing, you always have to weight various design elements. You can't solve everything to the highest degree of satisfaction for everyone in the same product or service. You find your target market and serve this target market well and you got a winning product.

Yes including taxes. VAT is only something that can be claimed back by a VAT registered company or person and this item wouldn't qualify for a claim back, so its the price Joe public would pay - $197.
My point is the single most important feature of a headphone / earphone is sound quality.
Cost is an important consideration.
I was wondering how they would sell, for just shy of $200 in USA
 
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Yes including taxes.
My point is the single most important feature of a headphone / earphone is sound quality.
Cost is an important consideration.
I was wondering how they would sell, for just shy of $200 in USA

For a someone who wants a compact fully wireless headphone, sound quality is the second most important thing.
That's where the higher price comes from. Costs more, and probably worth more, to provide that function that nobody really was serving properly, than just provide the best sound ever. If that's your goal, living with some of the limitations of larger cheaper current BT sets is probably not so bad.
 
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I can't even entertain the idea that those 30$ Happy-Meal headphones are in the same playing field as AirPods. If you're a true lover of technology then you would understand why some of us are genuinely impressed/excited over what Apple has brought to us. Sounds like you're more upset at the price of AirPods since you keep bringing up how "30$ does the same thing and more." You're either willfully ignorant or just trolling. I love how recharging these headphones is somehow a "flaw" in the design...lol what? Five hours of battery life in something this small is impressive. Also, if you're that concerned over losing them, which us adults aren't, then there are plenty of 3rd party solutions. So please spare us the links to your happy-meal headphones. We're content with embracing the future :)

etymotic are hardly Mc-headphones, more like industry standards, along with ultimate ears, and price isn't an issue for me, I paid $450 for my last set of headphones, but it is an issue for wide spread adoption. The only hope being to capture the beats crowd, but I don't think they have the fashion to do that. I'm not saying that they are a bad product, or even a bad price, but they are not a significant product.
 
Taking a look at the teardown, these things are a friggin engineering marvel. It's stunning really.
 
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LOL $138 for a battery out of warranty. Both will likely go at the same time or near each other. So your mr big guy argument falls flat. But thanks for pointing out that there are 2 batteries in play...I forgot about that. So there are 2 batteries to replace....case and airpods.

I believe you (unsurprisingly) do not quite understand the price list you were shown.
 
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I do know a few people close to me (wife being one of them) who have a tough time with the bundled Apple EarPods always falling out, with little movement. They're both getting the AirPods as they're curious if it'll improve without the wire tugging on them. I have seen someone who couldn't use EarPods due to them falling out being able to keep AirPods in, even when vigorously shaking their head.

When you say it's physically impossible without a clip due to the shape of the ear, are you referring to yourself or everyone in general? I don't think the assumption holds if you assume the same for everyone.

I don't BUY your argument and defense of the Airpods on that. First off, the Earpods and Airpods are EXACTLY the same shape. If they couldn't put it on originally, then the new ones won't. It's NOT the Airpod design shape but rather the persons' ears. Everyones' ears are different.

I'm hard of hearing and wear one hearing aid on my left side while the right side is profoundly deaf. I experimented with the Earpod that came with my SE model and it did not fit in my ear. Why? Simple. My ear was accustomed to the hearing aid mold and every time I put on the Earpod, there wasn't much security in the way it stayed in.

The 'in the ear' earphones won't work for me so I've had to use the Sennheiser open air headphones, wired of course for better quality, and listen to my music. I switch to the telecoil mode on my hearing aid for 'uncompressed' sound, blocking out the background noise, and it's so much better. I don't make voice calls but rely on text, email or Skyping with unlimited data.

Apple designed many of their products to be ACCESSIBLE to the general public, but the Airpods are a DESIGN. FAILURE. I'm aware that there are BT hearing aids designed for the iphone but I wouldn't bother getting that due to the flaw that the hearing aids are controlled by the phone itself which is pretty stupid, and one would have to recharge the BT batteries.

People keep forgetting that BT has limitations on how long it would last on a charge. That's why I liked the wired headphones that don't require anything else.

Apple user with Airpods making a 3 hour call on top of listening to music for the previous 2 hours: Blah blah blah oh, can I return the call to you? I have to recharge my Airpods. Bye!

(user recharges)

Another call: Blah blah blah blah blah. Oh drat! Gotta hang up and recharge my Airpods again.

Another thing. The use of saying " Hey Siri " over and over in order to utter a command with the Airpods is ridiculous. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to appear annoying out there doing that. So my point is that, I know deaf people use iphones to communicate via text or use an equivalent of FaceTime, but those who are hard of hearing that rely on their hearing aids to talk on the phone will have a hard time using the Airpods.

Do you realize Apple just opened a Pandora's Box of more behavioral problems using Airpods? Almost 10 years ago, it was the rude customers yakking away on their phones while making orders at Starbucks ( I know this for a fact. Used to work for them. I've seen a guy blab away at thin air while working behind the counter until he turned his head and I realized he was talking with an ear piece. ). It was a plague of an issue. Now look at Airpods. That sense of people lining up to buy that is a prelude to that 'need' of showing off. Apple needs to put out a disclaimer to customers not to use them in certain situations for safety AND matters of etiquette.

BUT, if you use that for driving hands free. That's fine. I can totally see that reason based on 'hands free' driving laws.

And the need to have TWO Airpods on both ears is overkill. I would NOT recommend using both Airpods in public when walking or running, or loud areas.
 
Definitely need more W1 chip options. If Apple allows 3rd party manufacturers to use that tech, there could be much more affordable or better options.
 
Apple headphones were designed

* wireless "Bluetooth
* Reasonable Sound quality "Not like a live performance"
* To be able to charge when not in use and to have the freedom
* 24Hr battery from the box
* Connect to Several devices at once with ease "no long winded pairing like third party Bluetooth headphones"

Apple have achieved this very well in ticking all the boxes which i have stated

We are not going to be getting the best sound on the planet from apple Bluetooth headphones

i have tried and test the Airpods and i think personally are very good i wouldn't say they are the best
but it nice to have that freedom when you have finished with them you can charge them up and when
you come to use them again you can just pull them out and use them and not have to hear that dreaded battery level low like in some of the third party Bluetooth headphones
 
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I had to give up on the built in music app years ago for lack of equalizer.
I use the following:
Equalizer Pro - FLAC, OGG, MP3 Player with Best EQ
Equalizer PRO - volume booster and sound effect
There will be some sacrifices to be made like skipping to beginning of track, it will will skip to the previous track (you just then have to skip forward).
For me it just better to have more control of equalization.

Same here. I use Accudio Free for my local MP3's and Gearmusic for my Google Music collection. Both offer good equalizers and make my EarPods quite tolerable. Can't listen to tunes from the basic Music app.
 
I don't BUY your argument and defense of the Airpods on that. First off, the Earpods and Airpods are EXACTLY the same shape. If they couldn't put it on originally, then the new ones won't. It's NOT the Airpod design shape but rather the persons' ears. Everyones' ears are different.

That wasn't my claim, it was a prominent tech writer online. I didn't say the shape was different, I said the difference is lack of wire and never having anything pulling on the pod.

EDIT: Here's part of it from the article:

http://www.imore.com/airpods

The left one has never fallen out, far as I can recall, and the right one only a few times. (That ear is far more mangled.) I know people freak out when they hear about AirPods falling out. I'll point out again that regular EarPods don't stay in for me at all. Like I have to hold my hand over them, over my ear, to keep them in. Same goes for most in-ear headphones.

So, believe me when I say I'm thrilled with how well AirPods have stayed in. It's the first time I've ever been able to use headphones that didn't hook over my ears.

I'm hard of hearing and wear one hearing aid on my left side while the right side is profoundly deaf. I experimented with the Earpod that came with my SE model and it did not fit in my ear. Why? Simple. My ear was accustomed to the hearing aid mold and every time I put on the Earpod, there wasn't much security in the way it stayed in.

The 'in the ear' earphones won't work for me so I've had to use the Sennheiser open air headphones, wired of course for better quality, and listen to my music. I switch to the telecoil mode on my hearing aid for 'uncompressed' sound, blocking out the background noise, and it's so much better. I don't make voice calls but rely on text, email or Skyping with unlimited data.

Apple designed many of their products to be ACCESSIBLE to the general public, but the Airpods are a DESIGN. FAILURE. I'm aware that there are BT hearing aids designed for the iphone but I wouldn't bother getting that due to the flaw that the hearing aids are controlled by the phone itself which is pretty stupid, and one would have to recharge the BT batteries.

Good for you. Maybe the AirPods simply aren't for you then? And because of that, they're a design failure? Sure.

People keep forgetting that BT has limitations on how long it would last on a charge. That's why I liked the wired headphones that don't require anything else.

Apple user with Airpods making a 3 hour call on top of listening to music for the previous 2 hours: Blah blah blah oh, can I return the call to you? I have to recharge my Airpods. Bye!

(user recharges)

Another call: Blah blah blah blah blah. Oh drat! Gotta hang up and recharge my Airpods again.

Wow, you really don't seem to care for AirPods, are completely uninformed, but you still came here to rant. Another typical useless comment.

The AirPods have 5 hour battery life. The case you store them in not only can recharge them multiple times (enough for 4-5 full charges), but it can charge them to 3 hours of use within 15 minutes. The best part - each AirPod has 5 hours of battery life, and each has a microphone so either can be used for a phone call.

Another thing. The use of saying " Hey Siri " over and over in order to utter a command with the Airpods is ridiculous. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to appear annoying out there doing that. So my point is that, I know deaf people use iphones to communicate via text or use an equivalent of FaceTime, but those who are hard of hearing that rely on their hearing aids to talk on the phone will have a hard time using the Airpods.

No one is forcing you to use Hey Siri. In fact, tapping the AirPod invokes Siri, so you can just use a command. But nonetheless, you NEVER have to use Siri if you don't want to.

Do you realize Apple just opened a Pandora's Box of more behavioral problems using Airpods? Almost 10 years ago, it was the rude customers yakking away on their phones while making orders at Starbucks ( I know this for a fact. Used to work for them. I've seen a guy blab away at thin air while working behind the counter until he turned his head and I realized he was talking with an ear piece. ). It was a plague of an issue. Now look at Airpods. That sense of people lining up to buy that is a prelude to that 'need' of showing off. Apple needs to put out a disclaimer to customers not to use them in certain situations for safety AND matters of etiquette.

BUT, if you use that for driving hands free. That's fine. I can totally see that reason based on 'hands free' driving laws.

And the need to have TWO Airpods on both ears is overkill. I would NOT recommend using both Airpods in public when walking or running, or loud areas.

More proof that you have no clue what you're talking about. The AirPods don't have to be used together. You can use one, or the other, or both at the same time. I've been using a single one for the past 2 hours to listen to a podcast while at work.

Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy AirPods or to even like them. But that doesn't mean they're an excellent product with a significant number of people excited to use them.
 
I do know a few people close to me (wife being one of them) who have a tough time with the bundled Apple EarPods always falling out, with little movement. They're both getting the AirPods as they're curious if it'll improve without the wire tugging on them. I have seen someone who couldn't use EarPods due to them falling out being able to keep AirPods in, even when vigorously shaking their head.

When you say it's physically impossible without a clip due to the shape of the ear, are you referring to yourself or everyone in general? I don't think the assumption holds if you assume the same for everyone.
I could never keep the left earpod in because my left ear is very shallow due to surgery. The AirPod actually stays in. I can tell it's not in as securely as the right, the sound is softer because it's not pointed the same way and not in as deep as the right, but it doesn't fall out!
 
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Based on your recent post here, Airpods probably not the product for you.
You might as well face that fact and move on to something else.

I was very interested in AirPods. I still am. But I will be waiting for revision 2, hopefully to address the audio side of things.
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Sorry - you want them to be wireless? But you previously said that audio quality is the only metric that matters? Which is it?
[doublepost=1482240939][/doublepost]

I thought this was strange at first as well. But then after thinking about it, it's not strange with wires hanging from the ear piece - or is that just because we're used to seeing that after 15 years?

I guess initially I was expecting them to be full buds like the Bragi Dash or Moto Hint, but I'm kind of happy they're not (using a Moto Hint, which is a large bud that really fills the ear, becomes uncomfortable after some time). These, if like EarPods seem like they'll sit comfortably without putting much pressure on the ear. Just my thought anyway.


Both.
 
Doesn't $197 include the VAT too? If that's the case, they're pretty much the same price as in the US.

Considering better sound is not the main selling point for this kind of headphone, not sure what your point is.

What they're trying to solve is the huge hastle of wires and BT pairing for those who hate those wires.
If you look at the competition in that area, they're more than competitive.
[doublepost=1482245190][/doublepost]

What your selling first is a fully wireless audio product with good battery life. For people buying these things, that's the main selling point. They then want the best audio they can while this first point has been resolved.

Apple is not selling this thing in a vacuum, people have been using various BT headphones and know their limitations. They understand some compromise are needed compared to a larger headphone, especially a wired one.

In engineering and product marketing, you always have to weight various design elements. You can't solve everything to the highest degree of satisfaction for everyone in the same product or service. You find your target market and serve this target market well and you got a winning product.


I get the technical achievement of bluetooth headphones, I really do.

I just get a bit dumbfounded when it comes to the magnet bit that has been around forever. Why did Apple have to use China's second rate bits?

Did Tim Cook just sort the price list for audio components by Price: Low-High and go "that'll do"

Surely they knew people might buy them?
 
I don't BUY your argument and defense of the Airpods on that. First off, the Earpods and Airpods are EXACTLY the same shape. If they couldn't put it on originally, then the new ones won't. It's NOT the Airpod design shape but rather the persons' ears. Everyones' ears are different.

Lots of words and even appealing logic doesn't mean you're right. I have NEVER been able to keep the Apple earbuds in my ears. They fall out almost immediately. For whatever reason, I can tell you that the AirPods do not fall out of my ears. In fact, I used them during a lengthy exercise routine this morning and then walked to the train with them, and never had them fall out or even become worryingly loose.
[doublepost=1482254136][/doublepost]
Taking a look at the teardown, these things are a friggin engineering marvel. It's stunning really.

Just went to iFixit - you're right. $160 is still a painful price point (bought a pair yesterday), but the performance and features are appealing and looking at the teardown really helps understand why these aren't on sale for $39.95.
 
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I would have thought for £160, audio quality should be the only metric this audio product should be measured on.

Nope. These clearly have a wire poking out of them?

I want a superior audio experience or at least an equal one to wired earbuds available for the past five years from competitors.

I also want them to be wireless.

Surely this was the product brief Apple engineers got when they started designing?

Sorry - you want them to be wireless? But you previously said that audio quality is the only metric that matters? Which is it?


And from your logic can I also assume that 1+1=3?
 
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Is it so hard to imagine amazing audio quality and wireless bluetooth technology?

Not at all - but your initial statement of "audio quality being the only metric" can't hold true if there's other aspects (such as wireless) that are important to you.

I get what you're saying. I honestly find the quality excellent for every day use (as I do with the EarPods and Jaybirds I use). I mean, the over ear Sennheiser PX360BT I use sounds better, but those things are huge compared to these. Maybe I'm not an audiophile, but I'm quite happy with the audio quality on them.
 
Is it so hard to imagine amazing audio quality and wireless bluetooth technology?

The size of those things, the fact they're "in ear" limits the quality inherently, but the transmission limitations of BT are slowly being resolved as throughput, range and signal resiliency improves. With high throughput, the quality of BT and wired would essentially be indistinguishable with the proper reproduction device. That's why there is NOW a big push towards wireless; within a few years, 99% of all usage will be served. Only the top end audiophile may hold out for something even better (but they're likely own a few great BT headsets anyway).

Eventually they'll probably just connect directly to your auditory nerves (say within 25 years) with amazing range that's powered directly from human heat (as power requirements will go down for such direct connection mechanism). We will truly be cyborgs... It's closer than people think.
 
Apple needs to put out a disclaimer to customers not to use them in certain situations for safety AND matters of etiquette.


Apple does in the fine print.

Else, there is the universal sign of letting others know that you are talking on the Airpods with a remote person: cupping the ear and side of the face, and lowering the head and eyesight.

Most people forget the hand cupping, but it will catch on.

Sooner than later.

 
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