Hands-On With the 17" LG Gram and a Look at Apple's Old 17" MacBook Pro

[DanBig]

Since you missed the part where I said "I would" speaking of myself and apparently want me to weigh in on it for all. There's nothing mobile about a 17" laptop. It takes up too much space and is intrusive. Look at all the dead space around the keyboard. It's fugly and you look ridiculous with it. It's like people that wear size 15 shoes but their feet are really only 10s. You look like a clown.

I take my 17" on my shoots all the time, not a big problem! Fits into the case with my other gear.
[doublepost=1552580818][/doublepost]

With Apple's focus on thinness at all costs, there would be little frame left after all the ports are accommodated to have any semblance of structural integrity. We've seen enough Apple laptops in the past where all the ports were crammed on one side right next to each other and the aluminium housing buckled under the slightest pressure.

Thats why we need the bigger 16" ~ 17" system! But it still needs to be thicker for the needed cooling the i9 or more powerful CPU's. The current 15" i9 is throttled! Not worth it when the i7 is so close in performance!
[doublepost=1552580943][/doublepost]

I had a 17" MBP for years, and loved it. It was a portable desktop, but flying coach and whipping that thing out was like.. here whatever I'm doing or watching, you can too. Now I'm all 13" MBP...

Thats what an iPad is for ;-}

 

[G5isAlive]

The problem is that you're unlikely to see that because USB-C/TB3/USB 4 ports are more expensive (both in terms of cost and their requirement for CPU resources like PCIe and internal DisplayPort lanes) to implement. A mixture of port types (as per the LG and the 2012-2015 MBP) is more effective because you don't "block" valuable TB3-capable ports by using them for chargers, displays or USB 2/3.0 devices like mice and memory sticks.



...to plug more than 4 things in without needing to carry a hub/dock - especially when just the charger counts as one of those things and you've got a laptop with limited, non-expandable internal storage that may need an external drive (c.f. the old MBP which had an easily upgradeable HD and space for a second one in the optical bay).

Docks are great on a desk where they can be left in place and semi-permanently wired in, but they make no sense whatsoever for mobile use where they just add an extra wire to be connected - and proper Thunderbolt hubs are still quite expensive, while cheaper USB-C hubs force everything through the bottleneck of a single USB3.1g1 lane and can't handle 4k and USB3 at the same time... and if you 'commute' between desks you need a hub on every desk.

If you never need that many ports then good for you - that doesn't mean that nobody else does (and lots of people don't need to connect 80Gbps worth of dual 5k displays, eGPUs and ultra-fast SSD arrays). Plenty of people here appreciated the third USB on the old 17" MBP (not to mention the ExpressCard slot) and you didn't have to use any of those to connect your charger, external display or (necessarily) storage (with an upgradeable internal HD and space for a second HD in place of the optical drive - plus any modern equivalent would probably have a second TB port instead of FireWire & Ethernet)

Meanwhile nobody is suggesting zero TB3/USB-C ports on a 2019 machine (and I think the LG could do with a second one) - so the option of single-port docking isn't going away.

In fact, there's no need for the existing MBP to go away* if people like that - the real problem with the current line-up is the lack of diversity and total obsession with size and weight. Essentially, Apple today only makes "ultrabooks". Last time I looked Apple were #4 in laptop sales, hardly some tiny boutique concern, so they ought to be able to sustain one or two more product lines without turning into Dell.

(* except the keyboard which needs to be staked through the heart, beheaded, soaked in holy water, sprinkled with poppy seeds and buried at a crossroads with one of its socks missing...)

I did not mean to imply that no one needs more than 4 ports or otherwise elicit the not everyone is you response. I was just curious exactly what five devices one would all plugged in at the same time while on the road. I wanted to learn to see what I was missing. As you pointed out, for me that would be close to never a need for 5, to the point I would probably rather NOT pay extra (though I guess with apple you always pay extra lol), and have the chassis compromised by punching additional holes in it. In the original photo, as you may recall, there was a whole bank of eight ports all grouped together.

but yes, I get it, ultimate diversity etc.

 

[RayHeart]

Apple should consider that there are people how need and love bigger portable laptop like photographers and videomaker 17” was a great size to work around. I really hope that the next MacBook Pro can can have this bigger screen (and more ports)

 

[theluggage]

I was just curious exactly what five devices one would all plugged in at the same time while on the road.

Well, for example if you're giving a demo:

1. Power
2. Data projector
3. Mouse/wireless mouse dongle/remote control
4. Ext. hard drive with video etc.

...then someone throws you a memory stick with something on it they want you to show...

I'd frequently use my 17" MBP to shuttle between two desks on which I plugged in to:

1. Power
2. External display
3. USB 2 hub with mouse dongle/ext. keyboard etc.
4. Ethernet
(...and this was my old 17" which had two internal hard drives so I wouldn't need an external drive).

...and then maybe want to copy between two external USB disc drives, grab video from a video camera, connect a scanner, tablet, smart pen etc...

So, great, just add $300 TB3 dock... on both desks... plus whatever you need on the road...
When the 2016 MBP came out I did sit down seriously (with a view to buying not to prove a point on the Internet) and work out what I would actually need to replicate my previous level of convenience - and it came to about $500 in docks, and dongles. It would be a bit less in 2019 although I 'economised' by using cheaper USB-C docks whereas, today, I'd probably want to go TB3 for 4k support etc.

 

[weckart]

Ultimately, what will allow this purported 16.5" MBP to sink or swim are projected sales and profits, the lack of which did for the 17" after 2011. It's all very well guessing that photographers and videographers want larger laptops but unless they buy, Apple will not make.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Size matters!

That's what she said.

 

[G5isAlive]

Well, for example if you're giving a demo:

1. Power
2. Data projector
3. Mouse/wireless mouse dongle/remote control
4. Ext. hard drive with video etc.

...then someone throws you a memory stick with something on it they want you to show...

I'd frequently use my 17" MBP to shuttle between two desks on which I plugged in to:

1. Power
2. External display
3. USB 2 hub with mouse dongle/ext. keyboard etc.
4. Ethernet
(...and this was my old 17" which had two internal hard drives so I wouldn't need an external drive).

...and then maybe want to copy between two external USB disc drives, grab video from a video camera, connect a scanner, tablet, smart pen etc...

So, great, just add $300 TB3 dock... on both desks... plus whatever you need on the road...
When the 2016 MBP came out I did sit down seriously (with a view to buying not to prove a point on the Internet) and work out what I would actually need to replicate my previous level of convenience - and it came to about $500 in docks, and dongles. It would be a bit less in 2019 although I 'economised' by using cheaper USB-C docks whereas, today, I'd probably want to go TB3 for 4k support etc.

Thank you, it's fun to see other people's use cases... and yes btw, the TB3+ is sweet LOL. But I wouldn't want to buy two.

I also agree that an efficient system is not cheap. I spend a stupid amount of time (and no doubt money) on perfecting my travel kit, the move to all TB3/USBC actually made that easier. I am just too lazy to want to hook up that many things to my computer at once. My mouse is bluetooth for example. Instead of carrying a USB adapter, a HDMI adapter, a memory card adapter, and an ethernet adapter, I have a travel hub that has them all built in, with one USBC connector. Even has a power pass through.

https://www.amazon.com/TOTU-Etherne...&s=gateway&sprefix=totu+,aps,126&sr=8-3-spell

 

[technano]

I still have my 2010 17" MacBook Pro. I dropped a 2 TB hard drive in it, and boosted the RAM as high as could go ( 8 GIG? ), and it still rocks for me. I can't do any more upgrades of the OS anymore, or I could stand the chance of rendering some of my applications inoperable, so I just stick with whatever the latest OS is.

I loathe the day when I have to upgrade to a new MacBook Pro. But I'm hoping by that time Apple will have come out with a new 17" screen again. Going back to a smaller screen will be tough.

PS - Anyone know how to change out the CPU chip in a older MacBook Pro, and install one of the latest and greatest in?!

actually, there are some PC3 8500 on Amazon. TimeTec and a few other companies are making 16GB kits...

 

[theluggage]

I have a travel hub that has them all built in, with one USBC connector. Even has a power pass through.

Sure - but according to my arithmetic, plugging 4 cables into the computer on the road equals 4 things to plug in, whereas plugging 4 cables into a travel hub and then plugging the hub into the computer equals 5 things to plug in (and an extra box to carry)... and we'd just got to the point where HDMI was starting to replace VGA in meeting rooms so (with 2012-15 MBPs) so you didn't even need a VGA adapter anymore.

Its not as if its an insurmountable problem - but I thought it was a lot of money and research (with a lot of faulty USB-C stuff flooding Amazon at the time) simply to get back to a system which was, in most cases, running the same old USB 3 and DisplayPort protocols as before. I've seen plenty of standards come and go, and have the cupboards full of really obsolete equipment to prove it - but those changes were usually accompanied by a night-and-day improvement in performance. I'm not gonna use VGA or Firewire if I can use HDMI/DisplayPort, USB3 or Thunderbolt2 instead - but this time round, I've got a whole bunch of thoroughly non-obsolete USB 2/3, DisplayPort and HDMI devices which aren't going to work any better with a USB-C adapter.

So I think the counter to your original question is - how many times do you plug more than 2 devices that actually use more than 5-10Gbps of bandwidth and can't work over anything but TB3? Because, as I said earlier, I don't think anybody is asking for TB3/USB-C to completely go away - just something like the 2015 MBP but with 2xTB3 instead of 2xTB2 alongside all the other ports...

(I think maybe I'm also jaded because it has usually been muggins here who had to turn up with not only with all the widgets and dongles I needed, but enough spares for everybody else who had forgotten... some of which I would get back... and, yes, I have sat in meetings duplicating memory sticks or external HDs)
[doublepost=1552608307][/doublepost]

I had a 17" MBP for years, and loved it. It was a portable desktop, but flying coach and whipping that thing out was like.. here whatever I'm doing or watching, you can too. Now I'm all 13" MBP...

Yet I have, on several occasions, seen other people whip out their 17" MBPs in coach and start coding (which is something for which the screen estate is invaluable). OK, they were the sort of disgustingly slender and fit-looking people who probably drink non-fat cafe macchiatos and carry their bikes up the stairs to the office every day and can actually fit into economy class seats without risking bisection-by-laptops if the person in front reclines. Personally, I'm too fat for that and working on flights is against my religion, but, hey, no resentment and they obviously found it useful...

 

[temhawk]

As a proud 2011 MBP 17" owner I want to chime in in saying how great this machine was and still is! Back in 2012 I got the 2.4GHz model with the default configuration (2x2GB RAM, 750GB HDD) for about £2100, and upgraded it myself with cheaper 2x4GB RAM modules and a 256GB SSD from OWC. During the first few months I had to get the display and motherboard replaced but never had issues for years since then. I find the components in this computer still very adequate today, though admittedly I developed a good habit of closing apps when I don't need them (and the open-source Quicksilver app has been a fantastic way to launch them again later).

However, in order to keep up with software updates for apps that I already own, and to be able to use certain apps that have caught my attention and don't support older versions of macOS, I've recognized it's time to get a new computer. I used to be somewhat of an Apple enthusiast, and although I've become quite cynical now, I still had hope back in 2016 for Apple to unveil a worthy MBP successor. Recently my battery started to swell a little and my left fan started making loud noises, so I'm urged to get a new computer. I can't wait any longer. Even though this timing seems bad, I just don't have much hope for Tim/Apple to get their act together, and don't want to be disappointed again. Maybe I'll regret my choice, in which case I'll simply miss out on a few cycles.

I actually bought a replacement battery & fan (and screws & feet that had gone missing) and cleaned out the inside one more time, because I reckon having a fully operational MBP will ease the transition into Hackintosh/Winux and act as a safety in case I don't manage to get hackOS working at all, at least until I sell the new computer and replace it with a different one.

So the past few weeks I've been researching Hackintosh and PC laptops, and my most recent find looks so good, I almost couldn't believe it, especially when I saw the price tag!

First I'll show you the list of requirements I made to narrow down the search to a reasonable range:

• 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (say it out loud fast, haha)
  • 512GB is the minimum capacity I foresee to comfortably run hackOS/Linux/Windows with plenty of space for apps, caches, screen capture videos, etc on each partition.
  • PCIe SSDs are so much faster than SATA, and sometimes I copy large files, and I regularly reboot for various reasons, and will probably do so a lot during the hackintosh setup phase. Speed is a must!
• 16GB DDR4 2666MHz RAM
  • As I said, I feel like the 8GB I've got right now are enough for my needs, but 16GB is a must to future-proof it more, especially as OS's consume more and more of it.
• Intel 8th Generation CPU with strong single-core performance (i7-8750H or better)
  • I play games that can't be multi-threaded (StarCraft II and Factorio), so single-core performance is more important to me than overall clock speed or number of cores.
• Discrete GPU with at least 4GB of VRAM
  • Factorio requires at least 3GB of VRAM for high-res sprites and I want to have a little more to be safe and for good measure.
• FHD/1080p display
  • High-PPI displays are nice but I favor the performance gains and energy savings of regular pixel-density displays.
• Thunderbolt 3
  • For maximum expansion flexibility.

Additionally, I thought it'd be nice to get another laptop with dual GPUs – one for graphics-intensive stuff, and one for battery life and the environment. However, it seems pretty much impossible to find a laptop with multiplexed dual GPUs like in the MBP, rather than an Optimus-based setup where the IGP 'outsources' tasks to the discrete GPU. That means it won't be possible to use the discrete GPU under hackOS, but it can still be used under Windows.

So what have I found?

Enter Gigabyte Aero 15X.

• CPU: 6-core i7-8750H (2.2GHz to 4.1GHz)
• IGP: UHD 630 (integrated graphics)
• Discrete GPU: GeForce GTX 1070 Max-Q 8GB GDDR5 VRAM (Optimus-based)
  
• Display: Thin bezel 15.6" FHD (1920x1080) 144Hz IPS anti-glare
• RAM: 2x8GB 2666MHz
  
• Storage:
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe/SATA slot (512GB or 1TB)
    
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe slot
• Ports:
  • 2x USB 3.1 Gen1 (Type-A)
    
  • 1x USB 3.1 Gen2 (Type-A)
  • 1x Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)
    
  • HDMI 2.0
  • miniDP
  • 3.5mm combo jack
  • SD card reader
  • RJ-45 (ethernet)
• Battery: 94Wh / up to 10 hours
• Built in:
  • Speakers
  • Camera
  • Microphone
  • Ambient light sensor
  • RGB keyboard backlight
  • Battery charge indicator

It even comes in a sleek aluminum chassis. This computer looks a lot like what I imagine a contemporary MBP would look like if Apple had taken a different path!

But the final amazing aspect of it is the price tag:

£1930​

I've now looked at at least 20 different laptops from brands like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, MSI, Alienware, Razer and Gigabyte and this one seems to be by far the cheapest one that ticks all the boxes! And it comes with 2 years international warranty.

There are some potential pitfalls, though. I've looked at reviews and while this machine has overall good 4 to 5 star ratings, there are some complaints about light bleed along the edges of the display and keypresses sometimes not registering unless you hit exactly on the center of the keycaps (Gigabyte reps. have responded saying those are faulty batches and to get them replaced). And the cooling system apparently blows hot air onto the display which could be a problem long term, and if the manual is written for like this. And in addition to that, there will obviously be some compromises inherent with running hackOS. I'll be honest, I'm a bit anxious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone else who might be on the fence about Hackintosh, because I was a little bit amazed at the sheer number of options out there in the PC market. It's scary to dive in, but there are a lot of resources and guides to help, but I guess maybe I'm just brave because I'm already open to the idea of switching to Windows, I just want to do it slowly, have a backup Mac will allow that more easily. If I didn't have that luxury, I probably wouldn't want to risk it.

 

[skaertus]

The LG Gram seems a really nice option for those who like a larger screen. It has 2.95 lbs, which is a little bit lighter than even the 13-inch MacBook Pro, and this is really impressive. It has, of course, an integrated graphics card, but the other components seem just fine. There is a serious lack of 17-inch laptops in the marketplace without a dedicated graphics card. And according to LG, the battery lasts for 19.5 hours (even if it does not, which is probably the case, it should be impressive).

 

[henryhbk]

Just don't make it cost three months rent and I'll buy a new one in a sec.

Dude, just move to San Francisco, Boston and New York... problem solved, now it won’t even be a month’s rent. Instantly cheaper for you!

 

[lowendlinux]

It'd be nice if Apple could make a 16/17 MBP again.

I'm an adult, I don't mind the extra size and weight

 

[G5isAlive]

Sure - but according to my arithmetic, plugging 4 cables into the computer on the road equals 4 things to plug in, whereas plugging 4 cables into a travel hub and then plugging the hub into the computer equals 5 things to plug in (and an extra box to carry)... and we'd just got to the point where HDMI was starting to replace VGA in meeting rooms so (with 2012-15 MBPs) so you didn't even need a VGA adapter anymore.

Its not as if its an insurmountable problem - but I thought it was a lot of money and research (with a lot of faulty USB-C stuff flooding Amazon at the time) simply to get back to a system which was, in most cases, running the same old USB 3 and DisplayPort protocols as before. I've seen plenty of standards come and go, and have the cupboards full of really obsolete equipment to prove it - but those changes were usually accompanied by a night-and-day improvement in performance. I'm not gonna use VGA or Firewire if I can use HDMI/DisplayPort, USB3 or Thunderbolt2 instead - but this time round, I've got a whole bunch of thoroughly non-obsolete USB 2/3, DisplayPort and HDMI devices which aren't going to work any better with a USB-C adapter.

So I think the counter to your original question is - how many times do you plug more than 2 devices that actually use more than 5-10Gbps of bandwidth and can't work over anything but TB3? Because, as I said earlier, I don't think anybody is asking for TB3/USB-C to completely go away - just something like the 2015 MBP but with 2xTB3 instead of 2xTB2 alongside all the other ports...

Either my original point was not entirely clear (more than possible since it was more of a question than a point) or you have me confused with someone else (hopefully smarter).

Let's first get to my question. It was based on a mockup showing 8 TB3 ports on a MacBook Pro. My question was what would people fill those ports with (what more than 4 specifically, not 2). Because to me 8 versus 4 carried an expense and more to break that I would not benefit from 95% of the time. I still don't think *I* need more than 4, but agree, some might.

Your math is sorta right, on the concept of plugging a hub in to then plug in other items, but not really. To me this is a case of misleading math. There are very few devices that go directly to TB3, many use an adapter of some sort. So before I would plug into the TB3, I would plug into the adapter, and then into the TB3, where as with the hub, straight into it. Net number of connections is still less with the hub than without. And my 4 port Mac still is viable.

So you say, well these days you can buy a number of USB-C cords, and yes you can. But for example, when on the go (the point of a portable), at a meeting, you are often using their HDMI cord. so plug directly in is not an option.

AND, perhaps more importantly, even if you had direct connect, no need of adapters, then the math for more connects is ONLY when you have four more inputs. Which on the road, the use case presented, would seem to be more an outlier than the norm. So for the rare cases you need more than 4 ports on the road, a $50 TB3 hub works wonders. And I still submit requires one to carry less adapters and cords.

all this is for when one is on the road. when at the desk, a lot of us likes to use hubs anyway. but not everyone. I know.

so the question really comes back to for me, should Apple design an 8 TB3 port MacBook Pro for the pro markert? Maybe they should, but they won't. 4 really does serve many people well, not all, but many, and Apple typically aims for the many. 4 would be easier to design. and presumably cheaper (though we won't see that!). 4 would not compromise the chasis like 8. and for those that travel that need more than 4, there really are some good ways to work with that. Maybe not for everyone, but enough that I just don't see Apple doing 8 TB3 ports on one laptop.

Heck Apple (but not me) thinks one port is enough for some.
[doublepost=1552663974][/doublepost]

As a proud 2011 MBP 17" owner I want to chime in in saying how great this machine was and still is! Back in 2012 I got the 2.4GHz model with the default configuration (2x2GB RAM, 750GB HDD) for about £2100, and upgraded it myself with cheaper 2x4GB RAM modules and a 256GB SSD from OWC. During the first few months I had to get the display and motherboard replaced but never had issues for years since then. I find the components in this computer still very adequate today, though admittedly I developed a good habit of closing apps when I don't need them (and the open-source Quicksilver app has been a fantastic way to launch them again later).

However, in order to keep up with software updates for apps that I already own, and to be able to use certain apps that have caught my attention and don't support older versions of macOS, I've recognized it's time to get a new computer. I used to be somewhat of an Apple enthusiast, and although I've become quite cynical now, I still had hope back in 2016 for Apple to unveil a worthy MBP successor. Recently my battery started to swell a little and my left fan started making loud noises, so I'm urged to get a new computer. I can't wait any longer. Even though this timing seems bad, I just don't have much hope for Tim/Apple to get their act together, and don't want to be disappointed again. Maybe I'll regret my choice, in which case I'll simply miss out on a few cycles.

I actually bought a replacement battery & fan (and screws & feet that had gone missing) and cleaned out the inside one more time, because I reckon having a fully operational MBP will ease the transition into Hackintosh/Winux and act as a safety in case I don't manage to get hackOS working at all, at least until I sell the new computer and replace it with a different one.

So the past few weeks I've been researching Hackintosh and PC laptops, and my most recent find looks so good, I almost couldn't believe it, especially when I saw the price tag!

First I'll show you the list of requirements I made to narrow down the search to a reasonable range:

• 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (say it out loud fast, haha)
  • 512GB is the minimum capacity I foresee to comfortably run hackOS/Linux/Windows with plenty of space for apps, caches, screen capture videos, etc on each partition.
  • PCIe SSDs are so much faster than SATA, and sometimes I copy large files, and I regularly reboot for various reasons, and will probably do so a lot during the hackintosh setup phase. Speed is a must!
• 16GB DDR4 2666MHz RAM
  • As I said, I feel like the 8GB I've got right now are enough for my needs, but 16GB is a must to future-proof it more, especially as OS's consume more and more of it.
• Intel 8th Generation CPU with strong single-core performance (i7-8750H or better)
  • I play games that can't be multi-threaded (StarCraft II and Factorio), so single-core performance is more important to me than overall clock speed or number of cores.
• Discrete GPU with at least 4GB of VRAM
  • Factorio requires at least 3GB of VRAM for high-res sprites and I want to have a little more to be safe and for good measure.
• FHD/1080p display
  • High-PPI displays are nice but I favor the performance gains and energy savings of regular pixel-density displays.
• Thunderbolt 3
  • For maximum expansion flexibility.

Additionally, I thought it'd be nice to get another laptop with dual GPUs – one for graphics-intensive stuff, and one for battery life and the environment. However, it seems pretty much impossible to find a laptop with multiplexed dual GPUs like in the MBP, rather than an Optimus-based setup where the IGP 'outsources' tasks to the discrete GPU. That means it won't be possible to use the discrete GPU under hackOS, but it can still be used under Windows.

So what have I found?

Enter Gigabyte Aero 15X.

• CPU: 6-core i7-8750H (2.2GHz to 4.1GHz)
• IGP: UHD 630 (integrated graphics)
• Discrete GPU: GeForce GTX 1070 Max-Q 8GB GDDR5 VRAM (Optimus-based)
  
• Display: Thin bezel 15.6" FHD (1920x1080) 144Hz IPS anti-glare
• RAM: 2x8GB 2666MHz
  
• Storage:
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe/SATA slot (512GB or 1TB)
    
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe slot
• Ports:
  • 2x USB 3.1 Gen1 (Type-A)
    
  • 1x USB 3.1 Gen2 (Type-A)
  • 1x Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)
    
  • HDMI 2.0
  • miniDP
  • 3.5mm combo jack
  • SD card reader
  • RJ-45 (ethernet)
• Battery: 94Wh / up to 10 hours
• Built in:
  • Speakers
  • Camera
  • Microphone
  • Ambient light sensor
  • RGB keyboard backlight
  • Battery charge indicator

It even comes in a sleek aluminum chassis. This computer looks a lot like what I imagine a contemporary MBP would look like if Apple had taken a different path!

But the final amazing aspect of it is the price tag:

£1930​

I've now looked at at least 20 different laptops from brands like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, MSI, Alienware, Razer and Gigabyte and this one seems to be by far the cheapest one that ticks all the boxes! And it comes with 2 years international warranty.

There are some potential pitfalls, though. I've looked at reviews and while this machine has overall good 4 to 5 star ratings, there are some complaints about light bleed along the edges of the display and keypresses sometimes not registering unless you hit exactly on the center of the keycaps (Gigabyte reps. have responded saying those are faulty batches and to get them replaced). And the cooling system apparently blows hot air onto the display which could be a problem long term, and if the manual is written for like this. And in addition to that, there will obviously be some compromises inherent with running hackOS. I'll be honest, I'm a bit anxious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone else who might be on the fence about Hackintosh, because I was a little bit amazed at the sheer number of options out there in the PC market. It's scary to dive in, but there are a lot of resources and guides to help, but I guess maybe I'm just brave because I'm already open to the idea of switching to Windows, I just want to do it slowly, have a backup Mac will allow that more easily. If I didn't have that luxury, I probably wouldn't want to risk it.

Useful information.... but for those of us who DO want a better screen (retina quality) the price goes up a LOT. And it is a bit of a beast in size and weight. But you do make a good point, there are a lot more choices in configuration on the PC side. I am not sure I could go the Hackintosh route though, those folks seem to have to fight through every OS update and I rather just use my computer than tinker with it. I should look more into that, maybe I am wrong.

 

[theluggage]

It was based on a mockup showing 8 TB3 ports on a MacBook Pro. My question was what would people fill those ports with (what more than 4 specifically, not 2)

So you say, well these days you can buy a number of USB-C cords, and yes you can. But for example, when on the go (the point of a portable), at a meeting, you are often using their HDMI cord. so plug directly in is not an option.

OK, that's fine if you're comparing with a hypothetical Mac with 8 TB3 ports - which isn't actually possible with current mobile chipsets because each pair of TB3 ports requires its own TB controller chip, four PCIe lanes a couple of DisplayPort streams and a link to the laptop's internal power/charging circuits. The alternative is a whole list of ifs and buts as to what combination of devices you could connect to which port (already partly the case on some of the 13" MBP models).

The problem is that you're trying to separate the issue of 'how many TB3 ports do you need" from "why do you still need USB-A/HDMI ports" when part of the reason you can't plug USB-A or HDMI straight into your laptop is that both the I/O budget and the money budget have been blown implementing 4 TB3 ports.

That was the reason for my counter-question of when you'd need more than 2 Thunderbolt devices (as opposed to USB2/3/HDMI/power devices plugged into with an adapter). Glad you're not pushing the "just replace all your cables with USB-C ones" line

So for the rare cases you need more than 4 ports on the road, a $50 TB3 hub works wonders.

The problem with rare cases is that they tend to crop up when you haven't planned for them and the shops are shut.

so the question really comes back to for me, should Apple design an 8 TB3 port MacBook Pro for the pro markert?

Not going to happen - because mobile CPUs don't have enough PCIe lanes.

 

[Macyourdayy]

As a proud 2011 MBP 17" owner I want to chime in in saying how great this machine was and still is! Back in 2012 I got the 2.4GHz model with the default configuration (2x2GB RAM, 750GB HDD) for about £2100, and upgraded it myself with cheaper 2x4GB RAM modules and a 256GB SSD from OWC. During the first few months I had to get the display and motherboard replaced but never had issues for years since then. I find the components in this computer still very adequate today, though admittedly I developed a good habit of closing apps when I don't need them (and the open-source Quicksilver app has been a fantastic way to launch them again later).

However, in order to keep up with software updates for apps that I already own, and to be able to use certain apps that have caught my attention and don't support older versions of macOS, I've recognized it's time to get a new computer. I used to be somewhat of an Apple enthusiast, and although I've become quite cynical now, I still had hope back in 2016 for Apple to unveil a worthy MBP successor. Recently my battery started to swell a little and my left fan started making loud noises, so I'm urged to get a new computer. I can't wait any longer. Even though this timing seems bad, I just don't have much hope for Tim/Apple to get their act together, and don't want to be disappointed again. Maybe I'll regret my choice, in which case I'll simply miss out on a few cycles.

I actually bought a replacement battery & fan (and screws & feet that had gone missing) and cleaned out the inside one more time, because I reckon having a fully operational MBP will ease the transition into Hackintosh/Winux and act as a safety in case I don't manage to get hackOS working at all, at least until I sell the new computer and replace it with a different one.

So the past few weeks I've been researching Hackintosh and PC laptops, and my most recent find looks so good, I almost couldn't believe it, especially when I saw the price tag!

First I'll show you the list of requirements I made to narrow down the search to a reasonable range:

• 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (say it out loud fast, haha)
  • 512GB is the minimum capacity I foresee to comfortably run hackOS/Linux/Windows with plenty of space for apps, caches, screen capture videos, etc on each partition.
  • PCIe SSDs are so much faster than SATA, and sometimes I copy large files, and I regularly reboot for various reasons, and will probably do so a lot during the hackintosh setup phase. Speed is a must!
• 16GB DDR4 2666MHz RAM
  • As I said, I feel like the 8GB I've got right now are enough for my needs, but 16GB is a must to future-proof it more, especially as OS's consume more and more of it.
• Intel 8th Generation CPU with strong single-core performance (i7-8750H or better)
  • I play games that can't be multi-threaded (StarCraft II and Factorio), so single-core performance is more important to me than overall clock speed or number of cores.
• Discrete GPU with at least 4GB of VRAM
  • Factorio requires at least 3GB of VRAM for high-res sprites and I want to have a little more to be safe and for good measure.
• FHD/1080p display
  • High-PPI displays are nice but I favor the performance gains and energy savings of regular pixel-density displays.
• Thunderbolt 3
  • For maximum expansion flexibility.

Additionally, I thought it'd be nice to get another laptop with dual GPUs – one for graphics-intensive stuff, and one for battery life and the environment. However, it seems pretty much impossible to find a laptop with multiplexed dual GPUs like in the MBP, rather than an Optimus-based setup where the IGP 'outsources' tasks to the discrete GPU. That means it won't be possible to use the discrete GPU under hackOS, but it can still be used under Windows.

So what have I found?

Enter Gigabyte Aero 15X.

• CPU: 6-core i7-8750H (2.2GHz to 4.1GHz)
• IGP: UHD 630 (integrated graphics)
• Discrete GPU: GeForce GTX 1070 Max-Q 8GB GDDR5 VRAM (Optimus-based)
  
• Display: Thin bezel 15.6" FHD (1920x1080) 144Hz IPS anti-glare
• RAM: 2x8GB 2666MHz
  
• Storage:
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe/SATA slot (512GB or 1TB)
    
  • M.2 NVMe PCIe slot
• Ports:
  • 2x USB 3.1 Gen1 (Type-A)
    
  • 1x USB 3.1 Gen2 (Type-A)
  • 1x Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)
    
  • HDMI 2.0
  • miniDP
  • 3.5mm combo jack
  • SD card reader
  • RJ-45 (ethernet)
• Battery: 94Wh / up to 10 hours
• Built in:
  • Speakers
  • Camera
  • Microphone
  • Ambient light sensor
  • RGB keyboard backlight
  • Battery charge indicator

It even comes in a sleek aluminum chassis. This computer looks a lot like what I imagine a contemporary MBP would look like if Apple had taken a different path!

But the final amazing aspect of it is the price tag:

£1930​

I've now looked at at least 20 different laptops from brands like Lenovo, Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, MSI, Alienware, Razer and Gigabyte and this one seems to be by far the cheapest one that ticks all the boxes! And it comes with 2 years international warranty.

There are some potential pitfalls, though. I've looked at reviews and while this machine has overall good 4 to 5 star ratings, there are some complaints about light bleed along the edges of the display and keypresses sometimes not registering unless you hit exactly on the center of the keycaps (Gigabyte reps. have responded saying those are faulty batches and to get them replaced). And the cooling system apparently blows hot air onto the display which could be a problem long term, and if the manual is written for like this. And in addition to that, there will obviously be some compromises inherent with running hackOS. I'll be honest, I'm a bit anxious.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone else who might be on the fence about Hackintosh, because I was a little bit amazed at the sheer number of options out there in the PC market. It's scary to dive in, but there are a lot of resources and guides to help, but I guess maybe I'm just brave because I'm already open to the idea of switching to Windows, I just want to do it slowly, have a backup Mac will allow that more easily. If I didn't have that luxury, I probably wouldn't want to risk it.

I occasionally think about doing a hack, but my days of spending interminable hours fiddling with systems and hardware is long gone. I barely get get any photo work done, never mind video editing and iTunes housekeeping.

 

[righteye]

Don't want to tempt fate but its good to see how many people are still actively using their 17" my 2010 matt screen still running fine with upgraded 1TB OWC SSD.

 

[Zdigital2015]

The problem is that you're unlikely to see that because USB-C/TB3/USB 4 ports are more expensive (both in terms of cost and their requirement for CPU resources like PCIe and internal DisplayPort lanes) to implement. A mixture of port types (as per the LG and the 2012-2015 MBP) is more effective because you don't "block" valuable TB3-capable ports by using them for chargers, displays or USB 2/3.0 devices like mice and memory sticks.



...to plug more than 4 things in without needing to carry a hub/dock - especially when just the charger counts as one of those things and you've got a laptop with limited, non-expandable internal storage that may need an external drive (c.f. the old MBP which had an easily upgradeable HD and space for a second one in the optical bay).

Docks are great on a desk where they can be left in place and semi-permanently wired in, but they make no sense whatsoever for mobile use where they just add an extra wire to be connected - and proper Thunderbolt hubs are still quite expensive, while cheaper USB-C hubs force everything through the bottleneck of a single USB3.1g1 lane and can't handle 4k and USB3 at the same time... and if you 'commute' between desks you need a hub on every desk.

If you never need that many ports then good for you - that doesn't mean that nobody else does (and lots of people don't need to connect 80Gbps worth of dual 5k displays, eGPUs and ultra-fast SSD arrays). Plenty of people here appreciated the third USB on the old 17" MBP (not to mention the ExpressCard slot) and you didn't have to use any of those to connect your charger, external display or (necessarily) storage (with an upgradeable internal HD and space for a second HD in place of the optical drive - plus any modern equivalent would probably have a second TB port instead of FireWire & Ethernet)

Meanwhile nobody is suggesting zero TB3/USB-C ports on a 2019 machine (and I think the LG could do with a second one) - so the option of single-port docking isn't going away.

In fact, there's no need for the existing MBP to go away* if people like that - the real problem with the current line-up is the lack of diversity and total obsession with size and weight. Essentially, Apple today only makes "ultrabooks". Last time I looked Apple were #4 in laptop sales, hardly some tiny boutique concern, so they ought to be able to sustain one or two more product lines without turning into Dell.

(* except the keyboard which needs to be staked through the heart, beheaded, soaked in holy water, sprinkled with poppy seeds and buried at a crossroads with one of its socks missing...)

A new 17" MacBook Pro would be great, if Apple had the conviction to create the new chassis it would need.

While it doesn't need 6 Thunderbolt 3 ports, Apple could certainly add two USB 3.1 Gen 2 (USB-C 10Gbps) ports, one on each side seems feasible, in order to free up the TB3 ports from having to work as charging ports. USB-C can handle up to 100w PD and those two ports could run off the CM246 PCH which should not interfere much with the PCIe SSD bandwidth needed to communicate over the DMI 3.0 bus. The Thunderbolt 3 ports would remain untouched and continue to hang off of the CPU and whatever GPU Apple chose would continue with x8 of PCIe bandwidth off the CPU as it always has.

A P3 (no OLED, no Pro Motion) display with a native resolution of 3840X2400 (1920X1200@2x) would need a 4GB Vega 16 or 20 GPU and some sort of 8GB BTO option (hopefully, a Navi GPU would be feasible and shipping). 16GB base, 32GB or 64GB BTO options. 512GB SSD starting, 1TB, 2TB and 4TB BTO options.

9th Gen Core i7 and i9 CPUs (Comet Lake) are slated to be announced in April, but I am dubious as Intel is still having 14nm manfucturing issues.

At least this would give Apple an out to create a thicker chassis with a much better cooling solution for both the CPU and the GPU. It would also allow them a chance to slightly reduce the size of the Trackpad (~10-15%) and replace the butterfly keyboard with the Magic Keyboard scissors mechanism. Move the headphone jack to the left side. 802.11AC (I don't think 802.11 AX is feasible yet) and Bluetooth 5.0. Thoroughly rework the old 17" unibody chassis using its thickness and size as a baseline and reduce thickness and weight where feasible, but without compromise.

Size and weight should not be as much of a concern with the 17" MacBook Pro. A return to the desktop replacement days of the 17" would be welcome. I have used three (2003 Powerbook G4, 2006 Core 2 Duo MBP and early 2009 MBP) and the 17" was my go to until it was discontinued.

Who knows, maybe they will...more likely they won't.

 

[Macyourdayy]

A new 17" MacBook Pro would be great, if Apple had the conviction to create the new chassis it would need.

While it doesn't need 6 Thunderbolt 3 ports, Apple could certainly add two USB 3.1 Gen 2 (USB-C 10Gbps) ports, one on each side seems feasible, in order to free up the TB3 ports from having to work as charging ports. USB-C can handle up to 100w PD and those two ports could run off the CM246 PCH which should not interfere much with the PCIe SSD bandwidth needed to communicate over the DMI 3.0 bus. The Thunderbolt 3 ports would remain untouched and continue to hang off of the CPU and whatever GPU Apple chose would continue with x8 of PCIe bandwidth off the CPU as it always has.

A P3 (no OLED, no Pro Motion) display with a native resolution of 3840X2400 (1920X1200@2x) would need a 4GB Vega 16 or 20 GPU and some sort of 8GB BTO option (hopefully, a Navi GPU would be feasible and shipping). 16GB base, 32GB or 64GB BTO options. 512GB SSD starting, 1TB, 2TB and 4TB BTO options.

9th Gen Core i7 and i9 CPUs (Comet Lake) are slated to be announced in April, but I am dubious as Intel is still having 14nm manfucturing issues.

At least this would give Apple an out to create a thicker chassis with a much better cooling solution for both the CPU and the GPU. It would also allow them a chance to slightly reduce the size of the Trackpad (~10-15%) and replace the butterfly keyboard with the Magic Keyboard scissors mechanism. Move the headphone jack to the left side. 802.11AC (I don't think 802.11 AX is feasible yet) and Bluetooth 5.0. Thoroughly rework the old 17" unibody chassis using its thickness and size as a baseline and reduce thickness and weight where feasible, but without compromise.

Size and weight should not be as much of a concern with the 17" MacBook Pro. A return to the desktop replacement days of the 17" would be welcome. I have used three (2003 Powerbook G4, 2006 Core 2 Duo MBP and early 2009 MBP) and the 17" was my go to until it was discontinued.

Who knows, maybe they will...more likely they won't.

Seems reasonable, so most likely won't happen. What the hell is their problem with MagSafe? The 2012-15 laptops had seven ports and the Air had six. How are less ports an upgrade, never mind the critical unreliabilities of the new ports and huge increase in connection costs?
Who found the size of the trackpad in the pre 2016 series unsatisfactory?

 

[Falhófnir]

Ultimately, what will allow this purported 16.5" MBP to sink or swim are projected sales and profits, the lack of which did for the 17" after 2011. It's all very well guessing that photographers and videographers want larger laptops but unless they buy, Apple will not make.

What really seemed to kill it off was being so much more expensive than the 15" model for really minimal extra features. I suppose also being large to the point of ungainly might also have further narrowed down the number of people who would have entertained it as an option, though I suppose a lot would be willing to make the sacrifice of absolute portability for the larger screen. Hopefully the rumoured 16.5" will fix both of those problems, no more expensive than the current 15" (which I assume it is to replace) and not much larger than the 15" models either.

 

[neuropsychguy]

No Hackintoshing?

Not worth the support hassle. I built a Hackintosh but eventually migrated it to Windows because it wasn't worth my time to try and get things working again after updates (even minor security updates could break things). Linux can take some management too but recently many distributions work well without much fiddling. Now instead of a MacBook Pro I have a Dell XPS running Ubuntu. It does everything I need it to do. The hardware's not as nice as a Mac's and Ubuntu isn't as good as macOS but it works for what I need (and was a good $1000 cheaper than a comparable MacBook Pro).