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Hands-On With the New Apple TV: A Look at the tvOS App Store
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Say it isn't so
I have an app in the Navigation category. It displays maps.I do hope the rollout of "categories" happens sooner rather than later. It would also be nice if there were some way to link to the iTunes page for the app via the web. As it stands, it's difficult to promote and mostly invisible on the device. Not much point putting in all those hours to have it ready for release day.
Categories are now there for purchased items (I don't think they were yesterday, could be wrong).
App store? What app store? There's hardly anything in it. And don't even get me started on the ridiculous onscreen keyboard. It makes me want to scream.
The whole OS is anemic. I'm actually considering returning it.
The whole OS is anemic. I'm actually considering returning it.
This is the same thing I faced when making my own music album. It's on iTunes, Amazon, CD Baby, Spotify, etc., but since I'm not a major artist, I don't even show up in a short list search of my own real name. I have to search my name and album name and even then it's not necessarily the first search result! Getting ANY business is entirely up to me spending money to promote it and provide my own links, etc. because companies like CD Baby are just there to take your money, not to help you make any actual sales (because they figure 99% of all people couldn't sell a single album anyway; but they'll gladly take the fees to set it all up; you then disappear into the background unless you can make a viral video or something like that Gangnam Style song (and even then most people were laughing at the artist, not actually liking the music, but I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank). The system is gamed against small independent artists and geared toward major corporations and in the case of music, record labels. They don't want people to succeed on their own. They want to skim the cream off the top and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist.
What I'm saying is the only way your App will succeed is if you promote it yourself. Apple will NEVER help the small guy sell a damn thing. They want your developer fee and that's it. If you can't make it succeed purely on your own then you're toast and you wasted your time. You need your own web site, promotional videos on places like YouTube, etc. and a lot of word of mouth in the long run. And that is one of the problems with the whole App Store concept. You don't even have try before you buy without in-app purchases or a separate free version. You can't update your App without giving the update away for free or having to start a whole separate version, etc. You have very little control over anything.
Apple loves it, though. They take nearly 1/3 of your gross sales for not doing a damn thing and not helping you one tiny bit with even a reasonable category search. I can go on the App store and even if a certain App was the best thing in the world, I might have trouble finding it. There's SO much garbage out there and the App Store only features a tiny fraction of the results under the "categories" as it is (i.e. it wouldn't help you even if it did exist in the long run since as soon as there are 100+ search results for a given category, you won't show up regardless; see above about music results on the iTunes store for independent artists. Someone can search an exact song name for one of my songs and some other different song name entirely maybe with a couple of letters in common will show up before mine without an exact artist + song search. They don't want to show small artist results. They don't want to help the little guy. They only want blockbusters. Your only purpose is to pay developer (or in my case CD Baby hosting) type fees and then they have no use for you.
You're comparing oranges to hand grenades. I think most just expected it to workIf you compare Apple TV 1 -> 2, and 2-> 3, this is a pretty big upgrade..
I guess people have sky high expectations. People also complained about the iPad being a big iPhone, but turned out good anyway. Calm down
Like apple of old- products used to 'JUST WORK'. This: doesn't.
And more and more in the Tim Cook era we get really really great betas. Not complete products out the gate. Case in point Apple Watch and AppleTV... Not great starts honestly.
It's quite shocking to me that Apple released such a good product that's the iPhone 6s just in September and then a month later we have this half-baked Apple TV 4. It seems to be rushed to the market. Lack of apps is understandable but the lack of basic functions which were present in the previous version is another story, with the most notable one being the ability to input text by the Remote app on iOS devices or by Bluetooth keyboard.
Also, same as previous versions of the Apple TV, if you're outside the USA, you're basically left very little content (and apps).
Also, same as previous versions of the Apple TV, if you're outside the USA, you're basically left very little content (and apps).
I understand where you're coming from, but comparing music to apps is not a valid comparison. A single song can be uploaded to any digital music storefront with at most some format conversion. App developers must create completely new apps for each platform and distribute each through a captive storefront. Musicians can even run their own e-Comerce site and sell your music directly to consumers. App developers cannot.
There wasn't really a viable "App Store" (or even the iOS "computing platform") until 3rd party developers developed apps for the iPhone, then the iOS platform took off. If today's iOS and tvOS App store policies were in place back in 2008 on opening day, iOS would not be where it is today. Apple was in less of a position in the early days to pick winners and losers. They needed a large swath of 3rd party creativity to push the platform boundaries. Apple takes 100% of the credit for developing iOS, but app developers drove what was possible - iOS would not be where it is today without ALL of us.
If Apple wants to control their app store to this degree, then they should open up the platform to allow non-Apple app stores to sell iOS apps (without jail breaking), and even let developers sell directly to users. The technology exists to sign app packages with a developer ID, and even "certify/sign" app packages that conform to API usage and proper entitlements. Apple only needs to sell developers a service similar to the automated "validation" that occurs when apps are uploaded to the current app store. Then get out of the monopoly business of approving/posting and taking 30%. Sure, they can charge for this automated validation service, but then get out of my way. They can then just kick us off the store, but they wouldn't even have to. I'd be out of their store and selling my own apps directly so fast heads would spin.
I knew where they were headed when they started "curating" the app store. Then, the family sharing program was basically the end of the line for small developers.
But ultimately, tvOS is a dead end. Apple was counting on the success of iOS to segue into tvOS, but most of the TV apps are just iOS apps "shoehorned" into the TV form factor. Even the "featured" tvOS apps today will be "pushed to the curb" if large console software companies embrace the platform. Only larger companies have the infrastructure to develop console games. But if there's no money in it for them (or they fear an Apple monopoly), they'll just ignore tvOS, and it will fail.
Not a good idea to post your app AND be critical of Apple in a public forum. Doing so will get your apps/company put on a bad list inside the "kingdom". Apple even warns developers about this: "Thou shall NOT go to the press".
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We'll see in 2 years if you need to eat your words. I expect you will.
I remember 2008 differently btw.
Apple always has extremely tight control when it launches something so your doomsday prognostic seem out of place.
I had three apps in the iOS app store in the first year it was open. My first was in the store 3 months after it opened. All were developed 100% by myself. I'm a professional developer with 28+ years of experience developing commercial software. I currently have 6 apps in the store, all of my own creation, except for the game art, which I contracted a pro artist to re-render (only).
And including contract and full time work done for other companies (ranging from biggest of the big to small shops), I've developed 2 additional complete apps, and contributed to 5 others. So I have a wide perspective about how Apple has treated developers of different sizes.
How many apps have you published: 1) completely on your own? and 2) as part of a larger team?
Apple is making the same mistake Microsoft made in the pre-iOS days. New ideas were killed because they didn't "Look like Windows". Look where that got them. Apple is making the same mistake on tvOS by: 1)causing the shoehorning of iOS apps onto the tvOS platform, and 2)killing discovery - this stifles creativity.
Apple has the marketing dollars to make their TV look like a success, but only for themselves, By their own admission it's never really been more than a hobby, and they have enough cash flow from iPhone sales to hide the losses.
Apple TV will not be a success for 3rd party developers.
Wow. Just wow. No categories! I didn't expect Apple so blow so much on this one! Just... wow!
Yes, but when you spend over 3 years on an album, development time comparisons really become moot. The comparison is completely valid from my perspective since I'm not making a lot of sales for the same exact reason you are not, NO PUBLICITY. You can't expect people to buy something they don't even know exists. Apple isn't giving you free publicity and they aren't giving me any either. Nothing is stopping you or me from taking out a full page ad in a magazine or newspaper except cost. The album was just a hobby for me, however so I can't justify the expenditure. If you really believe in your product, your mileage might vary. You can't expect Apple to hand you a big seller on a silver plate. They only do that for the big guns.
I've complained about the lack of 3rd party software outlets before without jailbreaking, but let's be honest here. If you can't get anyone to know about your software now, what would be different if you could sell it yourself? Who is going to know about your App to visit your web site to buy it? It seems to me you would have the same basic lack of publicity problem. Yes, you wouldn't have to share 30% or whatever with Apple then, but you'd have to pay to host your own web site and that's not cheap either, especially if you aren't making sales to pay for it. You just seem upset that Apple isn't giving you a free categorical page spread. But once they have so many Apps, one that isn't selling won't make those lists either so again, you'd be in the same position.
Let's say you sold Mac software instead. You can choose to use the App Store (and abide their policies) or go it on your own in whatever way you chose, then. No one is making you write AppleTV apps, after all. But to make any sales you have to get people to know you exist. So you either buy advertising or get places like online blogs, magazines, whatever to review your software so people find out about it. Or you just pray someone really likes it and starts spreading by word of mouth or whatever. Yeah, it sucks. It sucks I'm not a millionaire from making a totally awesome Pink Floyd style album (oddly Pink Floyd fans don't believe anyone but David Gilmour or Roger Waters could write anything of that type of style so most won't even check it out for free as they consider it a waste of time, but they will spend $800 for my unopened PULSE LP set if I want to sell it on eBay). People are fickle. Sometimes you just need to be lucky to get discovered even if your product is good or risk capital investing in advertising.
That sounds like revisionist history if I ever read it. The iPhone was a massive hit. Some people were begging for an App store the first year, but the damn thing was pretty amazing on its own. Do you know how many Apps I have that are just SOOOO AWESOME I couldn't live without them beyond the base functionality of my 1st, 4th or 5th Generation iPod Touch models or Apple's own software? NONE. Yeah, I still use the dictionary I bought and Angry Birds was fun for a few days and I still play Bejeweled one in a while, but overall, I mostly use it for browsing, photos, music playback and Remote control my whole house Audio/Video system (AppleTV 1st and 2nd Gen units). There are no "killer apps" out there. It's largely a bunch of 99 cent GARBAGE, IMO. I'd rather pay more for better Apps, but they don't sell so hardly anyone makes them. It's why the iPad Pro will FAIL HARD. There are not enough "Pro" Apps for it to do squat and companies don't want to make desktop level software for a system where the penny-pinchers out there won't spend more than $2.99 for something and get upset about that. They want it free or 99 cents at most.
That would cost them their security ratings, especially for Enterprise and let's face it, Enterprise and high-end clients buy a LOT of iPhones. They don't want to buy untrusted software. And how would Apple benefit from missing out on 30% of your hard work by letting you take them out of the loop? They'd need to sell a significantly higher number of Phones, etc. to be worth the exchange and that's just not going to happen. Android already lets you do that and yet Apple already takes in 90% of all PROFITS with only a 15% market share. What you suggest may or may not benefit YOU, but Apple couldn't care less about you and that's been my point all along, even with my music album analogy. Whining about it on here won't help your cause in any case. You risk Apple coming down on you if they found out (they're jerks that way) and we the public can't really give you free advertising. If you just want people to know about your App, post it in the appropriate forum minus the Apple crying and maybe some will give it a try if it interest them.
As much of a failure I believe the initial launch of the new AppleTV to be on every end (lack of Remote App support, lack of Siri support for local music/movies, lack of Pod Cast app, poor Apple Store setup, etc.) it's a bit TOO early even for me to conclude that it's already DEAD ON ARRIVAL. Most of these issues can be fixed. It might hurt their sales, but I'm not a seer. I don't pretend to know the future as you appear to.
Again, if you want someone to know about your App, either tell them about it or buy advertising. Expecting Apple to do this for you is ridiculous. Yeah, I wish they'd "feature" my album all over their iTunes site. I could make a small mint from just 50k sales, even. But I'm NOBODY to them and my album is unheard of and not backed by a huge record company that they're in bed with and I'm not 20 and look like a girl like Justin Bieber or whomever they think people will swoon over (the music industry has never REALLY been about "music" or all the stars wouldn't look like models).
I find it frustrating that Siri can only launch movies on Home Sharing if the title is on the screen. What's the point of that? Why can't it launch movies in Home Sharing when you're at least in "Movies" in Home Sharing. If it's on the screen, you can just as easily select it. Also, the inter face for interacting with Home Shared movies and TV shows has not changed since Apple TV 1. Major fail on Apple's part.
It's kind of hard to believe that Apple just "overlooked" this functionality deficiency. It's possible that iTunes will need an update to make it work (and to show the App Store for AppleTV in iTunes, assuming they'd want to do that to encourage people to get it or make it easier to shop for Apps for it). Otherwise, the only conclusion I can come up with is they want to "encourage" you to buy EVERYTHING from their App store (including stuff you already own).
Oh of course they want you to buy a movie that you already own through iTunes. In fact, if Apple TV 4 didn't have Home Sharing (I thought Apple was going to drop it) I would have bought a different device.
It seems to me like it has fewer apps than the previous version, just perception. I am disappointed that many of the TV apps that are available on the iPhone & iPad, are not available on the new AppleTV (app store) like Spike TV, AMC, CW etc.. And I am not seeing the option to mirror those apps from the iPhone to the AppleTV. I was really hoping to drop my Directv service and have more seamless replacement. I still plan on using a family members Directv log in to fully use the apps on the AppleTV, including paying the $6/mo fee for the all access CBS app, plus Hulu (commercial free) and NetFlix.
I don't think in it's current state it's really worth the $150/$200 price point, perhaps in the future with the upgrades and additional apps come available that may change. I would honestly suggest if you are thinking of making the investment unless you plan on using it to play games, you're better off holding off and just using your existing AppleTV until there is more to take advantage of the new platform. I think a wireless keyboard would be really helpful.
Lastly one of the BIGGEST NEEDS, the Apple TV needs, is a universal log in for ALL the apps... to have to go to an external device, type in a code and log in with your provider log in, 20+ times is cumbersome at best, there should be a more simple approach to this... There should be a way to do it one time, and have it automatically filter through all apps you have access to.
I don't think in it's current state it's really worth the $150/$200 price point, perhaps in the future with the upgrades and additional apps come available that may change. I would honestly suggest if you are thinking of making the investment unless you plan on using it to play games, you're better off holding off and just using your existing AppleTV until there is more to take advantage of the new platform. I think a wireless keyboard would be really helpful.
Lastly one of the BIGGEST NEEDS, the Apple TV needs, is a universal log in for ALL the apps... to have to go to an external device, type in a code and log in with your provider log in, 20+ times is cumbersome at best, there should be a more simple approach to this... There should be a way to do it one time, and have it automatically filter through all apps you have access to.
I've been working on commercial software/systems/products since the late 1980s, Not worked on "apps", because lets face it even in 2008 my career path was past that since at least the mid 1990s. But, I'm in contact people who have published "apps" as part of larger efforts (not small 1 person team) and they disagree.
You're free to believe your opinion applies to everyone; but I'm telling you it does not.
Beyond that, only time will tell. I expect time will be on Apple's side.
So you have NO direct technical experience with how iOS evolved between 2008 and now.
You've never found an iOS bug and communicated with Apple to get it fixed?
You've never followed or contributed to any technical forums that discussed the platform limitations, or discussed possible new features?
You've never met with Apple engineers and discussed anything technical about iOS?
You've only at best only spent a few years working on anything relevant until your career moved "past that" a decade before iOS even hit the scene? I know many people who took jobs in marketing and sales after washing out of a technical development position.
Yes, I have an opinion that is based on my direct technical experience.
So you really don't have an opinion formed on anything you are knowledgeable about, But you are "in contact" with people who have published apps? Wow...
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I don't expect Apple to hand me anything on a silver plate. As I've said, I've cashed in on a few of my own creation
But I totally understand where you are coming from. I've been selling my own desktop software apps directly to the public since 2003, IN ADDITION to working for others in the industry. This is called "outside employment", and works just fine if you follow certain rules.When the iOS app store was launched in 2008, Apple promoted app discoverability features that the store contained. Those features have been pulled from the iOS store. Some of those same features (App categories) were advertised for the tv store, but are not even there.
Apple promoted the App Store concept in 2008 with a very strong statement that the APP STORE implementation contained features that enabled a "let the customer decide" system. Apple has now removed those features from their iOS store, and has forced additional adverse conditions on developers (family share).
My only point is now they should open up the platform to alternate 3rd party app distribution systems. The technology exists to allow this.
The Mac App store still allows sorting of category based on release date. Apple MUST retain this feature on that platform because they need to compete with other distribution mechanisms that exist for the Mac platform.
This is really a fair competition issue.
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No - it can be the only Apple device you own.
You do need an Apple ID though - but you can set that up in any web browser, https://appleid.apple.com/account
I'm a computer and physics engineer (2 degrees in Canada) by formation and worked in very large systems development for more than a decade; switching for meant moving into chief of technology or architect positions in large startups and mid sized systems firms, because deciding what tech to use, and overall design takes more skills and experience than simply implementing the tech. So, being involved in the launch of app store app in 2008, would be ridiculous for someone with my background don't you think!
It's part of my job though to know how tech may potentially integrate with what we do; I don't need to talk directly to Apple if I got 15 people that do tell me directly about it.
I've conceded they're almost certainly not the same crowd you're talking too; so, we could both be right. Different POV of a situation and all.
Not sure why just declaring that reality is the best test and that I think It will ultimately vindicate my position sets you off with some garbage insinuations that seems to be some weird ass pissing contest! Keep it to yourself.
Again, Wow... ok so think you're some tech exec???... Big deal...
But you still haven't given any real indication how all your "majesty" is relevant to the tvOS App Store. Maybe you should check the title of this thread. Are you producing ANYTHING that is part of the tvOS ecosystem?
And keep in mind, you can never really be sure that the 15 people "you got" telling you about "it" (what ever "it" that you do is), may just be saying what they need to say to keep their paycheck coming. I've seen that a few times in my career, and am glad I was able to steer clear of those disasters.
There's a big difference between keeping a paycheck and putting one's own cash into a development effort. I'm successful in my career working in both situations.
And, why would someone with your "background" even be trolling here?
Seems to me that you just spent $299 (or whatever they cost in a trendy Montreal mall) and now you need the people "you got" to tell you that you didn't just get your pants pulled down. You're the one "pissing" at me (by saying I'll be "eating my words") for predicting tvOS is not going to be the big Apps platform Apple thinks it is. Yes, that's my opinion - others may have different opinions, but at least they can enumerate their reasoning. You've only been able to cite your "esteemed position" without giving any salient points except that people you are "in contact with" "told you". Obviously you really are just spewing BS because someone actually in the position you describe wouldn't even bother commenting here.
Get over yourself. I'm sure you won't miss the $299. In fact, I'm counting on the fact that you'll also be buying my game