Hands-On With the New Depth Control Feature in iPhone XS and XS Max

[dilbert99]

It's a nice addition but I think this functionality could be added to older models, just maybe not the real-time depth stuff in the iOS 12.1 beta. As for the effect itself, a lot of stuff at "f/1.4" looks goofy. Needs some more work. It has improved over the years but it's not there yet and can't compare with the bokeh found in a mirrorless or dSLR. But you know that's Apple's goal and I look forward to seeing what they can do in a few more years. The dynamic range on the XS is pretty great.

I agree, the blur looks ok'ish at lower levels.
But looks weird at f/1.4.
Not withstanding the fact of how they try to market an f/1.4 feature on a device that does not have a f/1.4 lens.
And coupled to the fact that it is fake blur and not equivalent to the f of the camera.
[doublepost=1538007611][/doublepost]

How is this any different from what Focos already does on the X?

shhh, you can't say that, its too close to halloween and the zombies will all come out and protect the pumpkins.
[doublepost=1538007839][/doublepost]

The effect is pretty cool, and basically - you get to decide if you like them or not. That's the beauty here.

Problem here is that the back of the sofa has the same blur as the background, which gives no depth to the rear of the image and looks strange to me.
[doublepost=1538008248][/doublepost]

I'm a serious photographer, and I don't snicker at it. Nobody is saying it's a replacement for a nice wide lens, but it definitely does an acceptable job - and at times can look excellent.

I haven't seen any images yet where it does an acceptable job where there is depth to the image.
The only passable ones I have seen is portraits where there is only two planes on the image the subject and the background and the background plane is parallel to the sensor.

When ever a background is not in the same orientation as the sensor or where there are multiple objects in the image at different depths, then the blur is rubbish.
[doublepost=1538008697][/doublepost]

Why Does it matter if it looks ‘fake’? I just like the fact that you’re able to actually control the amount of blur and highlight the actual subject in the photo, it really is an interesting detail to the iPhone camera with manual control.

Its not about it 'looking' fake, its about the blur distorting the depth perception resulting in an image that looks unnatural.

My advice to people playing with this feature who want to show off what can be done is to try to keep the background parallel to the camera sensor and try not to have too many objects at different depths.
[doublepost=1538008799][/doublepost]

I agree. Much of the time it doesn't quite work... but its' *non-destructive* so you can just remove it. You can't fix a focussing error with an SLR's f/1.4 image once it's taken.

You can however take multiple shots at different f stops.

 

[cocky jeremy]

How is this any different from what Focos already does on the X?

Focos is better and more accurate but Apple’s version is easier to use for the average person.

 

[341328]

How is this any different from what Focos already does on the X?

well... isn't that what developers are for. For Apple to use as a free test lab and find out what features are popular before putting man power on it.
[doublepost=1538009729][/doublepost]Does Apple's version work at more that 1/24 sec? This is the major limitation with Focos. Also... the depth map camera resolution is relatively low which is why you get bad edges sometimes / most of the time.

 

[jona2125]

Does Apple's version work at more that 1/24 sec? This is the major limitation with Focos. Also... the depth map camera resolution is relatively low which is why you get bad edges sometimes / most of the time.

Apple doesn't allow that level of control to see what the exposure time is to start with.

 

[macduke]

I agree, the blur looks ok'ish at lower levels.
But looks weird at f/1.4.
Not withstanding the fact of how they try to market an f/1.4 feature on a device that does not have a f/1.4 lens.
And coupled to the fact that it is fake blur and not equivalent to the f of the camera.

I actually just got a really good photo of my two year old an hour or so ago and cranked it down to “f/1.4” and it turned out pretty great. I think it works a little better with actual portraits of people than animals and objects. It also kinda depends on the background.

Does anyone know if it’s possible to force the iPhone XS wide angle camera into portrait mode like the iPhone XR? I hate how I have to get back further and get blurry/grainy photos indoors with the telephoto lens. I’ll be curious to see whether the software only solution is as effective as the hardware assisted one once the iPhone XR reviews go up.

 

[jona2125]

I actually just got a really good photo of my two year old an hour or so ago and cranked it down to “f/1.4” and it turned out pretty great. I think it works a little better with actual portraits of people than animals and objects. It also kinda depends on the background.

Does anyone know if it’s possible to force the iPhone XS wide angle camera into portrait mode like the iPhone XR? I hate how I have to get back further and get blurry/grainy photos indoors with the telephoto lens. I’ll be curious to see whether the software only solution is as effective as the hardware assisted one once the iPhone XR reviews go up.

I'm willing to bet Apple will have the update in iOS 12.1.X (or whatever the XR drops with) for allowing the wide angle sensor to be used in portrait mode. It should actually act better than the XR considering the XS models have the telephoto still to aggregate the data for making a depth map, you'd just be switching the final capture around to the wide angle instead. I'm hoping for sure they do because it would only make sense to put to full use the new sensor.

 

[macduke]

I'm willing to bet Apple will have the update in iOS 12.1.X (or whatever the XR drops with) for allowing the wide angle sensor to be used in portrait mode. It should actually act better than the XR considering the XS models have the telephoto still to aggregate the data for making a depth map, you'd just be switching the final capture around to the wide angle instead. I'm hoping for sure they do because it would only make sense to put to full use the new sensor.

I’ve found that on my XS I’m more hesitant to use the telephoto now, except in good lighting with no strong backlight or shadows, because the sensor on the wide angle is just that insanely great. But even so I conducted some tests this evening of the sunset again on my XS and X and the telephoto is somewhat improved by the twice as fast image processor combined with the bionic chip to produce smart HDR. It’s not as good as the wide angle, especially for shadows since it’s not a bright lens like the wide angle and the sensor is smaller, but there is definitely an improvement. I’d post it but I’m on mobile and not sure how to strip GPS without my Mac. There’s probably an app for that.

 

[topmounter]

It looks awful.

I concur. Awful, fake, contrived... I suppose Facebook people will be impressed.

 

[Harmonious Zen]

I concur. Awful, fake, contrived... I suppose Facebook people will be impressed.

It just really depends on the shot. Some shots come out looking nearly as good as a DSLR. Others, like you said...awful and good only for the Facebook crowd. Just depends on the shot.

 

[thasan]

Portraits are quite a bit noisier than normal shots for me. Anyone else seeing this?

 

[citysnaps]

It just really depends on the shot. Some shots come out looking nearly as good as a DSLR. Others, like you said...awful and good only for the Facebook crowd. Just depends on the shot.

And seeing that the majority people with iPhones are not professional or serious photographers, that is perfectly fine. Especially for a phone that fits in a pocket and always with you.

Most people just want to make photos of their family, friends, vacation, documenting this or that, etc.

A few people will be inspired by the DOF effects Apple provides and may become serious photographers.

A real shame people who trash the capability are not capable of seeing anything beyond their own wants.

 

[carlsson]

It's not the real thing, but it's good enough.

"The best camera is the one you are carrying with you."

 

[dilbert99]

I actually just got a really good photo of my two year old an hour or so ago and cranked it down to “f/1.4” and it turned out pretty great. I think it works a little better with actual portraits of people than animals and objects. It also kinda depends on the background.

Yes, any image with depth and planes not matching the plane of the sensor won't fair well

Does anyone know if it’s possible to force the iPhone XS wide angle camera into portrait mode like the iPhone XR? I hate how I have to get back further and get blurry/grainy photos indoors with the telephoto lens. I’ll be curious to see whether the software only solution is as effective as the hardware assisted one once the iPhone XR reviews go up.

Thats one of the issues I find with Apple, they only let you do what they want you to do. There is no technical reason as to why you shouldn't be able to do it, it is after all just a software function. It should be available on all iPhones.

Take for instance the selfie camera on the XS, Apple forcibly applies a beauty mode to the shot and does not allow you to turn it off. How is that for choice.
[doublepost=1538027828][/doublepost]

A real shame people who trash the capability are not capable of seeing anything beyond their own wants.

Thats not why people are complaining about it, it is because it is taking photos that defy the laws of physics with respect to depth perception.

Take and post an image of a ruler or row of dominoes or similar at say 60 degrees to the image and apply blur.

 

[freezelighter]

So that portrait mode bokeh editing is limited to A12 Bionic? Why?
I can do this perfectly and even much more professional on my iPhone X by using the Focos App

I created a short video to show you precisely what I mean:
https://streamable.com/zt80f

You can even refocus after the picture has been done.
If you remember Lytro, you know how magic that is.

That all runs on the iPhone X using iOS 11.
And with iOS 12, even more details like hair is recognized.
So why the huge applause at the Apple Event?

 

[dilbert99]

So that portrait mode bokeh editing is limited to A12 Bionic? Why?
I can do this perfectly and even much more professional on my iPhone X by using the Focos App

View attachment 789459

I created a short video to show you precisely what I mean:
https://streamable.com/zt80f

You can even refocus after the picture has been done.
If you remember Lytro, you know how magic that is.

That all runs on the iPhone X using iOS 11.
And with iOS 12, even more details like hair is recognized.
So why the huge applause at the Apple Event?

has a bit better depth control that Apples version.

 

[recoil80]

It's a nice addition but I think this functionality could be added to older models, just maybe not the real-time depth stuff in the iOS 12.1 beta.

Agree.
The effect cannot be applied live on old models as they don't have the new SoC but on X and 8 they could enable that while editing the picture. As long as it is not slow while moving the slider it is ok to implement it

 

[Piggie]

I still can't get over the fact that this failed so badly on the GIANT screen at the Apple event.
It's as if they themselves did not notice it?

Where the pretty lady, in, I think the yellow top had her head down on her hand/arm, and it was blurring her hand/arm despite it being at the same distance from the camera as her face.
Both her face and her hand should have stayed in focus as the background blurred, but it didn't.
Was so obvious to me in the demo, I can't understand how Apple missed this and used this in their demo.

 

[melchior]

Still looks terribly fake and unnatural. Look at the cat's tail especially.

 

[chfilm]

So if the XR can do this and it only has one rear camera, plus the front cameras on all the X phones can do it, why can't the iPhone 7 or 8 do it? Does it have to do with the graphics chipset?

They claim it’s because of the better neural engine... I want it on the X too! I’m absolutely sure it’s only to boost sales on the new devices, because Focos app can easily do this on older devices.

 

[The Game 161]

It’s certainly fun to play around with snd get different looks with the improved camera

 

[GaryMumford]

It seems to me that the effect was done with software algorithmically after the images were captured. Look at the hair around the edges nand the adjacent background, which dropped out of focus almost immediately. It is not the same as true optical depth of field achieved by opening/closing the lens aperture, which would be gradual.

Would someone shoot a deck of domino tiles and lining up from foreground to background and play with it?

If that’s the case, I consider this as a gimmick. Any serious photographer will snicker at it.

Yes It is bit of a gimmick, but any "serious photographer" wouldn't be using an iPhone to take serious photographs! For an non-serious photographer to take general everyday snaps, it's really good.

I wonder what the ratio is between serious photographers and non-serious photographers using an iPhone as their only tool for photography is?
[doublepost=1538034472][/doublepost]

What are you supposed to do with pictures of your cat? Show them to people? Look at them yourself? You can just look at the actual cat. It looks even more like a cat in real life than it does in pictures.

When you have a pet you love, and loose it, a photograph becomes very important. Unless of course you are a cold hearted !***@!** with no feelings or emotions, then I see your point.

 

[Peperino]

It seems that the new Depth Control feature is related to see how far Apple can dig deep into the users pockets.

 

[mrklaw]

The cat is a bad subject, which makes it a good subject - if you see what I mean.

I'd be curious to see the same photo edited with Focos. One thing it can do that the simple slider can't is to adjust the front/rear bokeh range. So you could move the rear bokeh away from the edges of the cat and still keep a wide aperture and high blur. On the built in depth slider you have to increase depth of field overall to try and get the edges into focus.
[doublepost=1538035836][/doublepost]Its possible that the Xs/Max/Xr has some additional data being captured that helps with separation - eg using focus pixel data to provide more info on how far away areas are. This might provide more granularity than the depth planes captured using the combination of tele and wide lenses, and what allows the Xr to do depth.

If that is the case, I hope focos updates to support that too.

 

[Belly-laughs]

autotune for pictures. good grief.

 

[Khedron]

The effect is pretty cool, and basically - you get to decide if you like them or not. That's the beauty here.

Funny choice of words considering the new iPhones have a forced always on beauty mode applied.