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But to say phones have always been like a computer is not true at all.
Please stop embarrassing yourself by revealing the full extend of your ignorance. iPhones and iPads a.k.a. mobile computers are nothing like personal computers, but personal computers are also completely different from the mainframe computers they replaced in the 80s. Computer doesn’t mean what you think it means, computer even includes the Apple Watch.
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I wouldn’t say the XS and X are luxurious versions that ‘normal working people would never buy’ as that’s a bit far fetched. Nobody I work with is poorly paid and a £1k device is not out of reach it’s just clearly not desired in general.
A Porsche Cayenne for 74,828 EUR is probably also not completely out of reach for you, does that mean owning one wouldn’t be luxury anymore? We all desire nice things. Luxury is defined by unnecessary wasteful spending on things that don’t need those minor improvement anymore. A Super Retina display which goes way beyond what your eye can see and OLED who’s blacks are even blacker than black.

If the ratio of quality increase per price increase goes to zero, it is a luxury purchase. iPhone versus Android, and you buy an A12 which is twice as fast while consuming less energy. But XS versus XR, the price difference is hardly justifiable with actual advantages. Hence OLED iPhones are a luxury item.
I don’t think you can really judge these phones on wealth as my wife’s cousin owns an XS Max and puts batteries in boxes for a living on minimum wage.
Sometimes poor people buy luxury products too.
Most people in my office are in iPhone 7’s and 8’s and a lot of that is to do with the deals currently offered by carriers.
Salesmen trying to sell inferior products and contracts with hidden costs to the gullibles. That’s news!
 
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$1000 and no 5G LTE, gonna pass, thanks. No smaller form factor phone either? Easy decision. The new IPad is supposedly 4K or can output 4K and to me that means some 4K integration between it and a 4K ATV. I’ll spend my money on that instead. Apple will still get some money from me but not on a phone. If I’m spending a g I’m getting a real screen for my money. My main panels in the house are 49” 4K Sony HDR sets. Remarkable PQ and they cost less each than a new iPhone. https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900e
That’s eye opening. I can buy a best in class 4K panel for less than an iPhone. I can buy an iPad or Mac laptop for the same cost as an iPhone. For those of us who watch such content as sports and films, I’d rather watch them on a nice display, instead of a little bitty screen. I’m not a millennial and don’t live my life on the phone. It’s just not that important. It’s only use is between the office, home, etc. I’m not on it hours and hours a day. CarPlay has been awesome. Plug the phone in when I drive and done with it. For a grand for a smaller form factor, LOL, I’d rather buy a flip phone, and buy a MBA or something and store it in the car with a LTE card. I’m not paying any company a grand for a g damn phone, sorry.
 
The
I truly have no idea what more Apple can do after this year. USB-C instead of Lightning finally seems to be one little feature they've omitted this year. And Apple Pencil support - but honestly, few people really have a need for a stylus for their phone. Some more camera improvements are an almost given but that's just more software magic mostly.

The next huge improvement is going to be a bendable/foldable phone. I actually was able to see the Samsung ones (they were just the prototype) they were super cool. They will have 2 models. The big one, that I saw will be the size of 2 max's, so when it folds in half it will be the size of the max. So imagine an iPad mini when it is full size. The other one when it is fully opened it was the size of the max but when it is folded, it is about the size of a post-it notepad. When opened there is no seam and you could not tell it was a foldable phone. They said for the bigger size you would be able to run 3 different apps at the same time on the phone. Of course, things can change between now and when it is released. I have read that Apple has also applied for the bendable/foldable patent too. The ones I saw, the price that they were talking about was $1500 for the larger size. I hate to see how much Apple will charge, if and when they release a bendable/foldable phone.
 
The


The next huge improvement is going to be a bendable/foldable phone. I actually was able to see the Samsung ones (they were just the prototype) they were super cool. They will have 2 models. The big one, that I saw will be the size of 2 max's, so when it folds in half it will be the size of the max. So imagine an iPad mini when it is full size. The other one when it is fully opened it was the size of the max but when it is folded, it is about the size of a post-it notepad. When opened there is no seam and you could not tell it was a foldable phone. They said for the bigger size you would be able to run 3 different apps at the same time on the phone. Of course, things can change between now and when it is released. I have read that Apple has also applied for the bendable/foldable patent too. The ones I saw, the price that they were talking about was $1500 for the larger size. I hate to see how much Apple will charge, if and when they release a bendable/foldable phone.


God I miss being able to dramatically end a call closing my Razr.
 
Ive had every iPhone since the 3g upgrading every two years till the 6+ then got put on the yearly plan and I've had the X for a year(just returned my Xs max).
Seems like With everyone I know upgrading seems completely different then it did a few years ago. Most of my friends have 1-4 year old phones usually. plenty of 7 and 6s people I know still not caring to upgrade. Same with androids not many people have the latest and greatest.
Who else thinks that the rise of phone prices has gone up just because of this reason? Less upgrading means higher prices phones to keep manufactures happy but it definitely feels like less and less people are caring to have the latest phones because phones. Phones have gotten so good that most people dont feel a huge upgrade year after year anymore. Its not like 2010 anymore and things loaded slow, apps took a few seconds to open ect... The 3g was pretty bad. Using safari was horrible most things would crack and things just wouldn't work or very slowly. What will manufacturers come up with to keep people upgrading every year or two? Technology has definitely tapered off.
Because starting at 6s those phones are good enough. The screen is good enough. The camera is good enough. Their phone bill is low because of that! Heck it makes financial sense to keep your good enough phone for that long. it’s us dumbasses that keep buy a phone each year that should be the looked down on.

Edit. Man I’m angry and annoyed lol
 
How many people use their iPhones for anything more challenging than Spotify, YouTube, a bit of email and light web browsing and snapping and sharing the odd photo?

I use my iPhone a lot, but only for these pretty basic functions, and I suspect this is pretty typical.

It's more trouble than it's worth trying to use productivity apps on a phone, I'm not interested in demanding games and AR has turned out to be a damp squib.

So why wouldn't I run my 8+into the ground? Far from being an "inferior product" as suggested above, I think it's currently the "sweet spot" in the range, offering the best combination of price and performance.

I am not sure that even 5g will offer a compelling reason to upgrade? As long as I can listen to Spotify while using Citymapper I - and I suspect the majority of iPhone users - will be happy.
 
Why it was headache to sell iPhone X?
ive never sold a phone at a huge loss like with the X. 256 gigs are going for less than 800$ usually for a 1150$ phone one year ago thats pretty crap. Usually years before you could sell your phone for 100-200 less online.The x would be around 3-350 less then last year.
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Notch, weight, prices, iPhones now are way too bigger to carry on. I want 4.5” full screen iPhone without notch.
Not really. iPhones have been the same size since 2014 4 years ago. The X is basically the same size as the 6 and the xs max is the same overall dimensions of the + size phones.
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When the very 1st iPhone in 2007 came out, I have been upgrading to a new iPhone every year, and then after every 2 years when the iPhone 4 came out. Now after the iPhone 6 was when I stopped caring so much about having the latest and greatest. I went from an iPhone 6 Plus to the Xs Max. That's 4 years. I certainly see no need to upgrade as much anymore. Mobile technology has plateaued, and I will most likely be hanging on to my Xs Max for at least 4-5 years until I upgrade. Which is usually how long I upgrade my computers.
How did it feel going from the 6+ to a brand new max? The 6+ I had for two years was basically slower then my 5 was. The 6+ had a lot of underpowered issues. Also slowed down with newer updates over time pretty badly.
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Apple doesn’t seem to be worried about the number of people upgrading.

I honestly think carrier will jack up prices but give deals on new phones locking customers in for years.
I really think apple IS concerned with people upgraded. Thats my question to this post. I think apple has raised prices because they see less and less people upgrading so increasing the price will keep them increasing similarly to less expensive phones and people upgrading yearly or two years with.
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It's a spiraling circle:

Phone market is saturated and phones are really good, so people don't upgrade as often.

Manufacturers see decreased sales, so they increase prices to compensate the bottom line

Customers balk at the high prices so don't upgrade as frequently as they used to

Manufacturers continue to raise prices to offset diminishing sales

Customers are priced out of the market and hold on to their phones until they no longer function

The future looks grim.
So what happens now? Incenstives to upgrade just like subsidies cell providers did pre-2015?
 
For me, and for most of the people I know, a device or thing gets replaced (or repaired) when said device or thing no longer does what that device or thing was intended to do. I am not interested in animated poop emojis or better cameras or more pixel desity than any human eye can see.

I want a small, sleek, discrete phone. It appears that is not what Apple wants to make any more. I have no idea what I will replace my SE with when it no longer does what I need it to do. I hope by then Apple is again making a phone-sized phone.
 
For me, and for most of the people I know, a device or thing gets replaced (or repaired) when said device or thing no longer does what that device or thing was intended to do. I am not interested in animated poop emojis or better cameras or more pixel desity than any human eye can see.

I want a small, sleek, discrete phone. It appears that is not what Apple wants to make any more. I have no idea what I will replace my SE with when it no longer does what I need it to do. I hope by then Apple is again making a phone-sized phone.

What’s the ‘right’ size for a phone?
 
We're getting to a point where 3-4 year old phones still work pretty well on a daily basis. Basic web stuff, cameras still decent, messaging fine.

If I absolutely needed to, I could have probably squeezed another year out of my 7 plus without issue. But I upgraded to the MAX just to be on the best and newest. To be honest, it's not a huge upgrade in terms of daily feel. The thing I find myself appreciating the most isn't FaceID (I actually find it to be worse than TouchID at times), the larger screen (got used to that quick), or the camera. It's how you switch between apps (to be fair, this was also on the X), and how quickly things load when you switch between them (maybe something to do with memory).

The simple swipe at the bottom also is just so nice. It's a seamless interface to switch between apps. Crazy how that is my favorite part of the new phone so far.
 
ive never sold a phone at a huge loss like with the X. 256 gigs are going for less than 800$ usually for a 1150$ phone one year ago thats pretty crap. Usually years before you could sell your phone for 100-200 less online.The x would be around 3-350 less then last year.
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Not really. iPhones have been the same size since 2014 4 years ago. The X is basically the same size as the 6 and the xs max is the same overall dimensions of the + size phones.
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How did it feel going from the 6+ to a brand new max? The 6+ I had for two years was basically slower then my 5 was. The 6+ had a lot of underpowered issues. Also slowed down with newer updates over time pretty badly.
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I really think apple IS concerned with people upgraded. Thats my question to this post. I think apple has raised prices because they see less and less people upgrading so increasing the price will keep them increasing similarly to less expensive phones and people upgrading yearly or two years with.
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So what happens now? Incenstives to upgrade just like subsidies cell providers did pre-2015?

Actually, X resale value beat all other iPhones by a wide margin.....
 
As many have said, I think many people don't upgrade sooner because they are working better for longer periods of time.
That's for the general case. In my specific case, to be completely honest, I couldn't care less about the newest devices. I upgrade when I can (have to travel as buying in my country is impossible), but if I don't, I don't care. Why? Because my devices work flawlessly. I am using an iPhone 6s on iOS 9. Battery life is like-new and comparable to the newer devices. (Might be a little less, but if the XS and Max's battery life is near what the X was getting - or so I've read here - then they are getting one more hour of usage at most. Or two. I am getting 8-9 hours on my 6s. They aren't getting much more than that). Performance is like-new and comparable to the newer devices.
The device does everything I want it to, flawlessly. As I don't update, I have no reduced performance and/or battery life. I'm happy with it. No need to upgrade.
 
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As many have said, I think many people don't upgrade sooner because they are working better for longer periods of time.
That's for the general case. In my specific case, to be completely honest, I couldn't care less about the newest devices. I upgrade when I can (have to travel as buying in my country is impossible), but if I don't, I don't care. Why? Because my devices work flawlessly. I am using an iPhone 6s on iOS 9. Battery life is like-new and comparable to the newer devices. (Might be a little less, but if the XS and Max's battery life is near what the X was getting - or so I've read here - then they are getting one more hour of usage at most. Or two. I am getting 8-9 hours on my 6s. They aren't getting much more than that). Performance is like-new and comparable to the newer devices.
The device does everything I want it to, flawlessly. As I don't update, I have no reduced performance and/or battery life. I'm happy with it. No need to upgrade.

True. You can stay on the same iOS that came with your phone. But that also means you may have huge security issues from not updating to the latest iOS. In addition, while it may work for you, but for others, being on iOS 9 also greatly limits what apps you can get.
 
True. You can stay on the same iOS that came with your phone. But that also means you may have huge security issues from not updating to the latest iOS. In addition, while it may work for you, but for others, being on iOS 9 also greatly limits what apps you can get.
I have discussed security before. On iOS, so far, it's a non-issue.
I have also discussed app compatibility before. Here's my take on it, from a previous thread:
"The problem I find with this - being in the same situation with a 9.7 Pro on iOS 9 - is that if you eventually stop using the app, you essentially updated for nothing, and the performance you lose is unrecoverable. You might want/need the app now, but later? Who knows if you'll continue to use it, and if you do, for how long? I've really wanted some apps that I've long stopped using."
[doublepost=1540130594][/doublepost]Also, on the upgrading topic. I upgraded from a 5s to the 6s. The only really nice thing I got, was far better battery life under pressure. (What I mean with under pressure is under high brightness and LTE).
My 5s would go from 6-8 hours with low brightness and Wi-Fi, to 3-4 when pushed with max brightness and LTE.
My 6s goes from 8-9 with Wi-Fi (negligible. One more hour, in my opinion, is negligible), to 7 hours with high brightness and LTE. That meant a 4-hour increase, and that meant my phone would get me through the day on a heavy day of usage, whereas my 5s would die at 4PM, even while consciously using it less. Needless to say, both phones were - and still are - on original iOS versions.
 
I have discussed security before. On iOS, so far, it's a non-issue.
I have also discussed app compatibility before. Here's my take on it, from a previous thread:
"The problem I find with this - being in the same situation with a 9.7 Pro on iOS 9 - is that if you eventually stop using the app, you essentially updated for nothing, and the performance you lose is unrecoverable. You might want/need the app now, but later? Who knows if you'll continue to use it, and if you do, for how long? I've really wanted some apps that I've long stopped using."

Sometimes, security violations on your phone may not be obvious to the user until far too late.

But, yeah, i understand where you come from. I would certainly avoid putting anything sensitive (financial, personal) on your phone.
 
Sometimes, security violations on your phone may not be obvious to the user until far too late.

But, yeah, i understand where you come from. I would certainly avoid putting anything sensitive (financial, personal) on your phone.
There wasn't a single on-the-wild virus on iOS, and I'm not about to destroy my phone's battery life and performance over perceived threats. It's seriously a non-issue. I would recommend you to never update - this is, of course, far different on computers and Android devices.
 
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Phones have always been computers. And they’ve always cost as much as computers.

$649 iPhone 5s (16GB)
$649 iPhone 6 (16GB)
$749 iPhone 6+ (16GB)
$649 iPhone 6s (16GB)
$749 iPhone 6s+ (16GB)
$649 iPhone 7 (32GB)
$769 iPhone 7+ (32GB)
$699 iPhone 8 (64GB)
$799 iPhone 8+ (64GB)
$749 iPhone XR (64GB)

If anything the price has come down to where it was with the first plus-sized iPhone.
Wtf? You made a list of flagship and only included the Xr. People don't like to see the reality, let me show you.

$649 iPhone 5s (16GB)
$649 iPhone 6 (16GB)
$749 iPhone 6+ (16GB)
$649 iPhone 6s (16GB)
$749 iPhone 6s+ (16GB)
$649 iPhone 7 (32GB)
$769 iPhone 7+ (32GB)
$699 iPhone 8 (64GB)
$799 iPhone 8+ (64GB)
$1000 iPhone X (64GB)
$1000 iPhone Xs (64GB)
$1100 iPhone Xs Max (64GB)

Yes, sure... They are getting cheaper( they are expensive and using last year Rom size, it's like a double treat ). LOL
 
ive never sold a phone at a huge loss like with the X. 256 gigs are going for less than 800$ usually for a 1150$ phone one year ago thats pretty crap. Usually years before you could sell your phone for 100-200 less online.The x would be around 3-350 less then last year.
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Not really. iPhones have been the same size since 2014 4 years ago. The X is basically the same size as the 6 and the xs max is the same overall dimensions of the + size phones.
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How did it feel going from the 6+ to a brand new max? The 6+ I had for two years was basically slower then my 5 was. The 6+ had a lot of underpowered issues. Also slowed down with newer updates over time pretty badly.
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I really think apple IS concerned with people upgraded. Thats my question to this post. I think apple has raised prices because they see less and less people upgrading so increasing the price will keep them increasing similarly to less expensive phones and people upgrading yearly or two years with.
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So what happens now? Incenstives to upgrade just like subsidies cell providers did pre-2015?
Apples big push is on services.
Apple care, accessories, iCloud, music, iTunes, App Store and so on.
Nothing better than selling the same product over and over and over again.
Look at amazon, they sell their hardware at a fraction of the price and seemingly make up for it through services.

Apple is a marketing machine.
How many people would buy a 128G phone versus a 64 or 256?
The X marketing was crazy.
I am certain the Max was ready last year.
Apple opted to release the 8 and 8+ then the X. All the crap about the notch and no Touch ID, blah blah blah.
How many other phones have a notch now.

I was at an Apple store yesterday helping my niece with her new max.
Talking with a lady she asked how I like my watch.
I told her I loved it. She mentioned she thought that new commercial was great. I asked if she understood what I was demonstrating.
I explained it, one person one watch. The watch covers so many different aspects of your life, each guy way was an aspect and at the end each of those aspects were running into the water following the aspect in hand. Apple doesn’t tell you verbally say look here is what out device does. They show you different things to spark your imagination.
She bought a watch.
I encourage all my friends and relatives to sit in on the classes they offer in the store. Most are amazed at seeing how people use their devices.
Apple has some tricks up their sleeves as do carriers.
Apple took forever to become an employee issued phone. Now look at them.
I will be bold to say the major carriers will bring back subsidized phones to future tie the hands of customers.
 
I mean technology has caught up and enhancements each year aren't as ground breaking. In personally like the best of the best.

Also with yearly trade in their is no reason to not upgrade. If you buy flat out then that's different.
 
We're getting to a point where 3-4 year old phones still work pretty well on a daily basis. Basic web stuff

If I absolutely needed to, I could have probably squeezed another year out of my 7 plus without issue. But I upgraded to the MAX just to be on the best and newest. To be honest, it's not a huge upgrade in terms of daily feel. The thing I find myself appreciating the most isn't FaceID (I actually find it to be worse than TouchID at times), the larger screen (got used to that quick), or the camera. It's how you switch between apps (to be fair, this was also on the X), and how quickly things load when you switch between them (maybe something to do with memory).

The simple swipe at the bottom also is just so nice. It's a seamless interface to switch between apps. Crazy how that is my favorite part of the new phone so far.
We're getting to a point where 3-4 year old phones still work pretty well on a daily basis. Basic web stuff, cameras still decent, messaging fine.

If I absolutely needed to, I could have probably squeezed another year out of my 7 plus without issue. But I upgraded to the MAX just to be on the best and newest. To be honest, it's not a huge upgrade in terms of daily feel. The thing I find myself appreciating the most isn't FaceID (I actually find it to be worse than TouchID at times), the larger screen (got used to that quick), or the camera. It's how you switch between apps (to be fair, this was also on the X), and how quickly things load when you switch between them (maybe something to do with memory).

The simple swipe at the bottom also is just so nice. It's a seamless interface to switch between apps. Crazy how that is my favorite part of the new phone so far.
I don’t think it’s crazy at all that the swipe to change app feature is your favorite. In fact, upgrading for reasons/features like that is what makes the $$$ worth it since you actual use it tens or hundreds of times a day. It’s really amusing to see people state feature differences as reasons for upgrading which don’t matter or get used very much...I admit I fall into that category sometimes!
 
Not really. iPhones have been the same size since 2014 4 years ago. The X is basically the same size as the 6 and the xs max is the same overall dimensions of the + size phones.

Not accurate at all... The X (and XS) is 35% heavier and 23% larger than the 6. That isn’t trivial. If it was the other way Apple would be shouting that from the roof tops!
 
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A Porsche Cayenne for 74,828 EUR is probably also not completely out of reach for you, does that mean owning one wouldn’t be luxury anymore? We all desire nice things. Luxury is defined by unnecessary wasteful spending on things that don’t need those minor improvement anymore. A Super Retina display which goes way beyond what your eye can see and OLED who’s blacks are even blacker than black.

If the ratio of quality increase per price increase goes to zero, it is a luxury purchase. iPhone versus Android, and you buy an A12 which is twice as fast while consuming less energy. But XS versus XR, the price difference is hardly justifiable with actual advantages. Hence OLED iPhones are a luxury item.
I wouldn’t put an iPhone in the same category as a 70 grand Porsche to be honest as most people can’t get credit as high as that whereas an iPhone is sadly well within reach for many people through credit cards and loans etc.
Sometimes poor people buy luxury products too.
The example I gave wasn’t a poor person, just someone who was pretty normal.
Salesmen trying to sell inferior products and contracts with hidden costs to the gullibles. That’s news!
I would say everybody in my office is intelligent enough to weigh up a mobile phone with its pros and cons. Everybody there has a university degree and a background in either finance, planning, production or R&D. The iPhone 7 and 8 are great phones and in very good deals at the moment.
 
But obviously a majority of users must disagree or every company would be making smaller phones in order to sell more than their competitors, right?
Since when does majority rule dictate what I should like? I have zero interest in a large screen. Zero! I understand that few companies are making a normal-sized phone any more. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

Is it possible that sales of the SE would be higher if the phone's internals were up to date? Sure. Lots of us want small phones, not cheap phones. And many people were waiting, and hoping, for an SE update that didn't happen. So, it is impossible to say with any amount of certainty there is no demand for a small phone.
 
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