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let me add: I bought a truck before from philadelphia. I paid DAS to have it sent to me in california. I gave the money to a company (i think it was bidpay, i don't remember) and they kept the money until i received the truck. they gave the money to the seller after I accepted to keep the truck. Everything went fine. The only difference with the harley davidson transaction is that this time, the money is going to a person named sean mcwilliam and not to paySafe. Also, I can't find anything about paySafe but that they are a merchant account company.

afernado...this is a scam. DO NOT DO IT. in my situation, i didn't go any further, but the reason why you can't find anything about paysafe is that it does not exist. it's a scam. the mac is saw has been seen a number of times on other sites...exact same details.

forget the harley. it's too good to be true. you will lose your money if you follow suit.
 
Quite a clever scam, because it sounds similar to escrow, but the opposite way round. Of course, when you think about it, that makes no sense.

With escrow, you send your money to the escrow company (e.g. escrow.com) and when you say you have received the goods, they release the funds.

With this fictitious "Paysafe" you send the money direct, and then they release the goods. This makes no sense because the company could never make any profit! escrow companies do an automated, computerised transaction; this paysafe thing would mean huge warehousing and shipping costs, legal bills if they broke something, employing people to inspect the items and check that they were what they said they were...

Not to mention the fact that companies like escrow.com have a huge, established web presence and real-world contact details.

Steer clear!
 
I saw a harley davidson on craigslist. The owner, ralf stromboli says he is in uk and the bike is in Atlanta with paySafe. Ralf wants me to send a money order to the paysafe agent sean mcwilliam (who is also in UK), then paySafe will deliver the bike and i will have 10 days to decide if i want to keep it or return it at the cost of paySafe. If i decide to keep the bike, only then will paySafe give ralf the money. Does anyone have any actual purchasing experience or are we all just speculating that this paySafe thing is a scam? I really want this bike and I would hate to lose it for being too skeptical.

Afernando - don't be a sucker.

"I want you to send money in a non-traceable and non refundable form, to an unknown person that you cannot trace in a different country. Then, I promise that a different unknown company that you cannot trace will deliver to you some goods worth much more than you paid. Honestly!."

Don't even spend a second considering whether this could be real.
Everything the seller is telling you is a fantasy to make you think that there is some kind of security here. Start with the initial premise: "There's this company whose will hold your money until you receive the goods. However I would like you to send the money to my buddy Sean." Everything after that will not happen.

The rule is: If the buyer proposes an escrow service - YOU get to choose the escrow company.
 
Agent Mulder is that you?

No, wrong number :cool:

Actually, I seem to say that a lot lately. I get all these people trying to collect debts from the people who used to have my phone number. They always seem suspicious that I'm just trying to trick them. I don't know why they don't just use a current phone book (I think I've located the people at a local business number - apparently they own a local green-house / growing operation).

But, seriously, I wish I didn't have so much experience tracking people down. It's my bad luck I guess. Fortunately, the Internet makes it easy to locate what I need to get things corrected. Of course, the scary part is that all that information is available to anyone (even if their purposes aren't as legitimate as my uses have been).
 
harley davidson

ok, i just sent him an email. I told him that I sent my cousin in atlanta the money thru paypal so he can give it directly to paySafe. I have a feeling Ralf is gonna reply that he sold the bike elsewhere. It just makes me upset that there are people who does scams like this and actually gets away with it. He did give me his address, but i bet it's also fake. Agent Mulder, here's a project for you!

Seller Details:
Ralf Strombol
96 Mount Street
London
W1Y 5HG
United Kingdom

Agent Details:
Sean Mcwilliam
322 Kings Road
London
SW3 5UH
United Kingdom
 
ok, i just sent him an email. I told him that I sent my cousin in atlanta the money thru paypal so he can give it directly to paySafe. I have a feeling Ralf is gonna reply that he sold the bike elsewhere. It just makes me upset that there are people who does scams like this and actually gets away with it. He did give me his address, but i bet it's also fake. Agent Mulder, here's a project for you!

Seller Details:
Ralf Strombol
96 Mount Street
London
W1Y 5HG
United Kingdom

Agent Details:
Sean Mcwilliam
322 Kings Road
London
SW3 5UH
United Kingdom



Well, if he doesn't work at Audley Shoes (a ladies footwear store), then the address is no good. The 96 Mount Street address is a tall building in what appears to be a commercial district.


The second address goes to Mulberry Home. It is a company a home furniture place who's parent company deals in clothing.


I had a lot of work come in last night that will keep me busy for a few days. So, I didn't bother doing an exhaustive search that would reveal all details. But, the above information was retrieved in a simple 2-minute quick search.

There could be additional details to complete the picture. But, honestly, I just got slammed with work. I do on-call stuff to provide services as needed. And, I got a Mac Pro in my sights. So, naturally, I'm going to get the work done :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think the basic information above is probably enough to get a general idea of the situation. If you had actually lost money, I'd probably devote a day to digging out all the details for a more complete picture. But, I think the basic information says enough to indicate that no money should be sent.
 
harley davidson

I didn't send any money...thanks to each and everyone here in this forum. With no surprise, Ralf has not responded, maybe he's too busy selling ladies shoes.
 
I didn't send any money...thanks to each and everyone here in this forum. With no surprise, Ralf has not responded, maybe he's too busy selling ladies shoes.

Maybe they're having a sale, and having to cart all the women over to PaySafe to look over the shoes and take the money. The question, is whether they get to wear the new shoes when they leave PaySafe, or if they have to go back to the store to get a receipt first before wearing them.
 
Yes, I could trace you by e-mail address.

I've had the misfortune of being scammed by a few thousand dollars. So, I did a bit of investigating with the Internet.

He had moved since the initial transaction, and claimed financial hardships, divorce, and business failures caused his unfortunate inability to make good on the money he still owed for the business transaction. Further, he had changed all his information (except his name) to make pursuing him difficult.

So, with the help of the Internet, I located:

1) His new address
2) Pictures of his new residence and surrounding area (thank you Google Earth).
3) all the previous entities that had sued him recorded in public records of the state and local courts
4) pictures of his wife and step-kids on their recent vacation (despite being supposedly in the middle of a divorce and having been "screwed royally" by said "X-Wife"). They looked quite happy on this vacation that took place after being divorced and supposedly not on speaking terms.
5) documented evidence that he was still with his wife and that they were still quite happy.
6) pictures of the inside of his house
7) a rough list of his assets
8) Employer information, and list of partners
9) pictures of him in his cubical at his office
10) Do I really need to go on? I could have been him with all the information I collected just from knowing his e-mail address, name, and IP address from e-mails.

By the time I was done compiling information, I had enough information on him that I could just about become him. And, with all the documentation I had, he had no wiggle-room to hide from any legal proceedings. I could prove all his lies, and prove where the truth actually was.

Now, just imagine what someone could do if they meant you harm.

The thing is, that I can use the e-mail address and IP address attached to that e-mail to determine if the two match. If they don't, then I can look at the information separately, and combine it with other pieces of information to determine the most likely truth.

If it's an e-mail address that you've had for a while, then I can really gather information because that address will be tied to other things on the Internet. This forum for example. And, anywhere else where you've used that address, or where someone has discussed someone with that address.

I can combine what I gather to determine whether that is your real name, or if there is another name that is associated with the information I've collected.

I've actually avoided several deals and discovered potential frauds by simply checking an e-mail address on the Internet.

When I purchased my wife's computer second-hand, I had only an e-mail address from the seller. Nothing more other than his assurances that he was honest.

With just his e-mail address (that's all I had to start), I found out what his interests were. I learned about his activities. Learned what organizations he was involved with. Discovered that had written several published articles calling on politicians to crack down on child predators.

Basically, I had a complete political profile of him. I even had pictures of his home-office / work-space. And, knew where he lived, and other such information.

After I had enough information on him, I went ahead and purchased the computer. The transaction went smoothly.

I don't usually create a full profile of everyone I purchase from. But, I do watch closely for irregularities in stories. There were two messages he had sent me that had very minor discrepancies in how they related to the same information. They were minor, but concerning. I questioned him about the irregularities, and he provided a reasonable answer. But, I wanted to make sure of who I was dealing with for my own comfort.

I sold a computer to a lady and everything went smoothly. And, about a year later, I was contacted because of some irregularities in the payment (long story). I couldn't get a reply from her using any of the information I already had from her. And, I was being sent to collections because of debt she owed (it was a mess and would take pages to explain). The collection agency wouldn't provide me with any information because it was against the rules. It took me quite an effort just to find out who was trying to collect the money.

In the end, I tracked her down. With nothing more than a name and e-mail address (old information was no-longer useful), I learned her profession (a very prestigious occupation). I knew which events she was involved with, what associations she was a part of, and which boards she sat on. In the end, I was released of liability, and the people pursuing me dropped all charges and went back to where they should have been going in the first place (her).

All the above examples are instances where I obtained all that information over the Internet.

Now, you should see what I can do with a telephone. And, if you're local, I can really pull some information.

The thing is, that for me, I only use such tracking techniques to save my own butt. But, you should be aware that everything on the Internet can be cross-referenced and compared to produce a full picture of the person in question. There's enough information out there to identify you exactly with very little information to start with.

Now, I do know how to send an untraceable e-mail (one which cannot be traced because it is routed through various servers in such a way that all originating information is lost). But, of course that would make it difficult to carry-on a conversation with someone. So, that wouldn't really serve your purposes. Untraceable e-mails are most useful for scaring someone, harassing them, or making information public without being identified.

Likewise, you can route your Internet IP address and re-route it a few times to make it harder to pin-point you on the Internet. But, again, in a situation where you are directly talking to someone, that would be of little use either.

About the closest thing you could do to carry-on a conversation with the type of person you are describing without being traced, would be to:

1) re-route your IP address through at-least 4 or 5 different servers to mask your real address.

2) with IP address sufficiently masked, set-up a free account somewhere for e-mail or chat. One example might be to set-up an account on a forum where he hangs-out, and then use private messages to talk to him. Always make sure your IP address is sufficiently masked before going to the site and logging-in. Otherwise, the IP address will give you away.

3) Make sure only false information is associated with that account. But, keep in-mind that under terms of most agreements, this will amount to perjury, and is legally prosecutable if they can find you (and if they care).

4) Make sure you clear all your cookies, and other information retainers on your computer both before and after each online session. And, remember to not participate in other things that might identify you while your IP is masked.

In short, it's probably not worth your time and effort to mess with the guy. I'd leave it alone. If he knows anything about computers, he'll be able to find you.

I don't think he'd likely care enough to try and find you unless you really upset him. But, it's probably not worth it if you are concerned that he may try to find you.

It's really just best to leave those kind of people alone. Let the law enforcement know anything you already know about them. But, if you are going to actually pursue them, do it through the law enforcement agencies.

Nothing you do on the Internet is untraceable unless you go through enough hoops to cover yourself.

great response flyin. very educational. i have left it alone, but ironically, i found a similar post on another site. the pictures look very similar...green wall as well. i wish i could find him a dark alley :)
 
great response flyin. very educational. i have left it alone, but ironically, i found a similar post on another site. the pictures look very similar...green wall as well. i wish i could find him a dark alley :)

Glad you found it interesting. I wish I hadn't had the need to learn so much. But, of course it does help to protect myself in future transactions. Now if something doesn't look right, I investigate first and then proceed.
 
Almost...

wow, this guy doesn't seem to change his routine... glad I checked it out reference. Keebler, he even used the exact same wording, when I saw that in your message, I knew it was a scam!:D
 
wow, this guy doesn't seem to change his routine... glad I checked it out reference. Keebler, he even used the exact same wording, when I saw that in your message, I knew it was a scam!:D

there must be a group of them b/c i've seen it 2 other times as well from supposedly different ppl. each time, i've told them off and that they are being cyber hunted by the right policing folks.

i actually told one they should be publicly flogged with razors and then have pickle juice dumped on them :)

lol

Cheers,
Keebler
 
LMFAO and a hearty THENK YOU VERY MUSH!!!

So I'm trolling craigslist (as one tends to do) and find what seems an impossible deal (as one tends to do) and this is the reply to my query...

Hi,
the bike is in great condition , never dropped. It has clear title and the price I will sell it for is $3,000.00, which is including all the shipping charges.
I live in Toronto, but currently I am with work in United Kingdom ( London ) for the next approximately 5 months. Anyway, there shouldn't be any problem, because I am using PaySafe services so I can sell the bike without difficulty.
I left the bike in their custody before leaving overseas. They will take care of the delivery. There's a 10 days return policy so you will have the chance to test, inspect and ride it before final decision.
So if you want to purchase it, let me know and I will explain you how PaySafe works and how we can move forward.
I am waiting your email.
Thanks


So I google paysafe (as one tends to do), and poke around and find this. :D
For anyone who knows what an aprillia tuono is, this is stupidly cheap for one, let's gloss over the fact that the gentleman can't tell a tuono from a mille factory.... which is what the pic was of!
Sooooo... thanks for helping out!
I'm not about to buy a bike I can't see either way, and the paysafe site did look fishy but it certainly made me laugh realizing the same person has tried the exact same scam on the same site.
A for effort, but F for execution.
I'm heading over to the UK in May anyways, maybe we'll cut a deal!

(if anyone's actually been scammed and wants payback and can figure whether the guy actually IS in the UK or not, let me know)

Cheers!
(bargain-hunting novice bike builder)
Byknuts
 
almost got me too

Saw a 24" iMac 2.33ghz, 3gb for $1300 on local craig's list in St. Louis. Almost too good to be true. When I contacted the seller, he told me he was out of town in the UK for the next 5 months (must be the same guy). Upon further inspection, I located this forum. Thanks for spreading the information! I have since reported this guy's e-mail and craig's list post to the IC3. Don't know if it will help, but I had to do something. If anyone has any more information on how to f*ck this guy over, please let me know (or any other govt channels I can go through to report this guy). Appreicate all the information you have posted on this forum!:apple:
 
Another Paysafe Scam Uncovered!

Hi All,

I found another one of those Paysafe scams on the Craigslist in Nashville. Has the same exact wording almost. The guy had a G5 2.5 Dual Core and Monitor for $1,300. He says guy left company who was Mac guy and they decided to go PC and don't have any reason to keep and owner just wants to recoop a portion of his investement. Ok too good to be true right??? I mean you can put it on E-Bay and get at least 75% of the value or more! Why so cheap...hmmmm. I replied anyway and got this from him:

Hi,
The system is in perfect cosmetic and working condition without any scratches or dead pixels on the monitor, there are 2 years Apple Care warranty left on it. The price I will sell it for is $1,300.00, which is including all the shipping charges and it`s with the monitor included.
I live in Nashville the next approximately 5 months. Anyway, there nibe any problem, because I am using PaySafe services so I can sell the system without difficulty.
I left the system in their custody before leaving overseas. They will take care of the delivery. There's a 10 days return policy included so you will have the chance to inspect it before final decision.
So if you want to purchase it, let me know and I will explain you how PaySafe works and how we can move forward.
I am waiting your email.
Thanks

Sounds alot like the others above!!! Beware!!! When I tell him I'm in Nashville too and I prefer paypal or face to face he sends me this reply:

Hi,
the system is in Memphis (at PaySafe official location). It could take up to 25 days to set up an appointment to pick it up and I am not going to wait that long.
So let me explain you how PaySafe works and how we can proceed:
In order to start the official transaction, I need to know your full name and shipping details.
As soon as I receive this information, I will forward it to PaySafe and as soon as they have all the details, they will start the transaction and notify you with all you need to know regarding it (payment instruction, shipping, my account status etc) As soon as the payment is complete, you have to send them the payment information, they will verify it and proceed with the shipping. You will have 10 days return policy, so you will have the chance to inspect the system and decide either you keep it or not. If you decide to keep it, they will release me the funds, if not, you will have a complete refund within 3 days. So I am waiting your email.
Thanks

NO WAY!! HAS SCAM WRITTEN ALL OVER IT!! IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO DO FACE TO FACE OR PAYPAL THEN ITS NOT REAL!! BEWARE MY FELLOW MAC FRIENDS!!!
 
I hate these scams

Mostly because they get my hopes up every time. I have been trying to buy an inexpensive MacBook or an iBook for some time and I search CL all the time to see what i can find. What I find once a week on the Albany CL is a deal that is too good to be true. Why they seem to stick with just that one local i do not know, perhaps it is because it is first in order on the site? Anyway they piss me off because I always find the camera, or the lappy that I want at a great price just to find out i am going to get the "in the UK" email.

I find myself wondering if i will ever find a good deal like they are offering on CL and I guess for the most part I don't even bother to answer most ads because I am tired of getting disappointed.
 
this is a common scam

When anybody sees these scams, please report them to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (www.ic3.gov). Although you might not have that much information, their e-mail and online sales listing may lead to the person being caught someday. At the very least it will raise awareness of this particular scam
 
When anybody sees these scams, please report them to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (www.ic3.gov). Although you might not have that much information, their e-mail and online sales listing may lead to the person being caught someday. At the very least it will raise awareness of this particular scam
Hey thanks for the link, I will do just that.
 
has anyone heard of paySafe?

you guys helped me so much! i think the cosmos directed me to this forum, which I joined just to thank you all. Crackpots, all of them! it happened to me as well!!! same exact wording. same exact london addresses, same feeble excuses. my intutition was on red alert, but it's true--the deal was so good i still feel sad that it wasn't true! my materialism was clouding my judgment! ha! and the funny thing is that I found this joker on a second hand freelisting in belgium.

i'll denounce him on the ic3.gov. and I'm going to tell him off-- and tell him that everyone is on to him.

Thanks again!!!
 
you guys helped me so much! i think the cosmos directed me to this forum, which I joined just to thank you all. Crackpots, all of them! it happened to me as well!!! same exact wording. same exact london addresses, same feeble excuses. my intutition was on red alert, but it's true--the deal was so good i still feel sad that it wasn't true! my materialism was clouding my judgment! ha! and the funny thing is that I found this joker on a second hand freelisting in belgium.

i'll denounce him on the ic3.gov. and I'm going to tell him off-- and tell him that everyone is on to him.

Thanks again!!!
Yo, I just totally almost got scammed by this same sucker. He went by the name Lart Nester and tried to sell me a 2000 Honda CBR for $2900 which go for around $5500 so felt really weird but thought hey have to try. Anyways he said the excact same thing but tried me to go thru moneybookers (a legitimate buisness). But wanted me to western union the money to an agent. Yeah right thats when I knew it was faulse, why would any world known buisness only take Western Union. Anyways thanks for all you to reasure me of this rat! Sucks when you think you find a great deal and it turns out not to be true. Like they say if its too good to be true it probably is....This is for people googling this thing DONT BUY FROM LART NESTOR, MONEYBOOKERS SCAM, CRAIGSLIST SCAM


First Name: Lart

Last Name: Nester

Street: 96 Mount Street

City: London

Zip code: W1Y 5HG

Country: United Kingdom
 
The UK scam

I wanted to buy a bike and there was this guy with the same story you guys talked about. I knew it was a scam and now I am deciding to play mind games with the seller :D. I will give him the info he needs and I will also fake a reference number with Western Union if he tells me he wants to use Western Union. After this I plan to let Western Union know that a scammer will visit their premises with that number. I know a friend of mine who works for the bbc and I may talk to him to see if the news guys can nail this idiot ;)
 
I wanted to buy a bike and there was this guy with the same story you guys talked about. I knew it was a scam and now I am deciding to play mind games with the seller :D. I will give him the info he needs and I will also fake a reference number with Western Union if he tells me he wants to use Western Union. After this I plan to let Western Union know that a scammer will visit their premises with that number. I know a friend of mine who works for the bbc and I may talk to him to see if the news guys can nail this idiot ;)

Don't be a chump, Dadedi. Why would you risk him retaliating against you? You already know he is an impostor, a liar and a fraud... so there's not much limitation on what he could try if he were motivated to get back at you. While you are a law abiding person, he is already beyond the pale. Plus he probably has access to way more ways to $*^@ you over than you do.
And would you leave your self open to a charge of committing wire fraud yourself?
Talk to the BBB guy BEFORE you do anything.
Even better, delete the emails and walk away.
 
Don't be a chump, Dadedi. Why would you risk him retaliating against you? You already know he is an impostor, a liar and a fraud... so there's not much limitation on what he could try if he were motivated to get back at you. While you are a law abiding person, he is already beyond the pale. Plus he probably has access to way more ways to $*^@ you over than you do.
And would you leave your self open to a charge of committing wire fraud yourself?
Talk to the BBB guy BEFORE you do anything.
Even better, delete the emails and walk away.

this is good advice. best thing you can do is report to the ic3 or whatever that link is and then forget about it. there was a story floating around about a guy being scammed about a macbook from the uk. the 'good' guy ended up sending the scammer a box with a fake laptop and the 'good' guy wasn't really heard from after that. not sure if it's urban legend or not, but canadaram is right - people can find people if they want using the net. it's not as anonymous as we all would like it to be.

and i know how you feel b/c i encountered the same thing wrt to a g5. you're angry as heck, but revenge can't be had safely.
 
Here's an email I sent the other day to a "seller" on craigslist.
Funny... no reply after this!

I only deal in person, with cash. Sorry, too many scammers out there...

LIKE YOU.


On 6/2/2007 3:42 AM, "Susan Leaf" <susan.leaf1@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello

Sorry for the delay. I still have the laptop.
I have attached some pics with the laptop to this e-mail so you can see the condition of the laptop. The laptop is an US version and it still has 32 months of apple care protection program.
My name is Susan Leaf and I am now in Wolverhampton, United Kingdom.
I hope you are still interested and we can make the deal happen right away.
Obviously we need a safe way to complete this deal that will allow us to make sure we receive what we are after.
I have found a way for us to complete the deal fast (3 days) and easy. The solution is a worldwide delivery company called TNT. TNT is similar to Fedex, DHL or UPS and they will provide assistance in hadling the payment and delivery of the laptop.
With this procedure you will be able to check the laptop before I receive the payment.
Click bellow to go to their website and see how the procedure works:

hxxp://www.tnt.com/country/en_generic/about/ournews/euexpansion.html

Like I said, I will pay for a 2 days delivery so you will receive the laptop right away.
Let me know what you think.

Best Regards,
Susan
 
I got the same thing, only this person is in NYC. They wanted to use USPS for payment? I guess I would have gotten lots of stamps. Plus this person offered 100 bucks over what I was asking. WTF? So I kindly relied no thank you. But be aware its not only people posing in the UK.
 
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