I am on a M1 Macbook Air that came with Monterey. I can install the Ventura betas only on the internal ssd. Even trying to install Monterey on external ssd will fail. Can anybody suggest something?
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Has anyone managed to install a bootable Ventura beta on external ssd?
- Thread starter Mr Todhunter
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I don't know if MBAM1 have USB-A ports, but switching to it helped me to install Monterey to external drive on Mac Mini M1. I think it may be the case with Ventura too. Also, you may try to install it to internal and then CCC it to external, should work on any port.
I don't know what to suggest, but I can say that it is quite possible. I did for both Monterey and Ventura last week for test purposes, using M1 MBA.
I used bootable installers to install onto a samsung T5 formatted APFS
The other advice I can offer is that it was NOT necessary to do any of these sometimes stated requirements:-
-Change the Startup Security setting
-Disable SIP
-Use USB-A ports, as there are none!
-Use a thunderbolt external.
I’ve tried to install on a WD usb3 ssd using a hub and an Intenso usb-c connected with usb-c cable without success. Even using a bootable installer. So it seems to me then it works only on a samsung T5
I've installed Monterey on some old Crucial M2 drive (in an enclosure) and even on a 5400 spinner ) Both via USB-A connection.
BTW, the booting of Monterey from the spinner was just HORRIBLY slow, with Win10 it was like 10 times faster.
If other methods fail there is one more cumbersome but reliable one - install needed version on internal and then carbon copy it to external, should work with any port and any drive.
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I don't think that is a valid conclusion ! I will see if I can find something else to test install onto.
CCC is certainly something else to try but I wouldn't call it more reliable. Bootable external clones have been so unreliable since the signed sealed System Volume was introduced that Mike Bombich of CCC has relegated bootable clones to the legacy mode in CCC. The default mode is to clone only the -Data volume and do an install, and then migrate from it as the means of ending up with a bootable external. More info here.
Superduper! is in the same boat as CCC but has continued with the bootable clone as mainline, but it doesn't have any extra magic source.
You could take a different approach...and dual boot by installing onto a second volume in the same internal container as MacIntosh HD. This is how Apple recommends dual booting. In my experience it is a lot less trouble, but you do need to have enough internal capacity....even though the two installs will space share.
Yes, it is recommended bit I don’t have the internal capacity. Also I’ve been using dual boots from external disks for very many years. Long before I started beta testing the OS. It still feels safer to me even after APFS
Fair enough. External drive boots have been part of life for many years but did you see what Mike Bombich said about external booting in the link I posted earlier? I have moved to dual booting internally and even changed to a 1TB Mac so that I could.
Yes I’ve checked the link, thank you. And thanks to all who bothered to reply. I’ve decided to stop beta testing in the future. I’m sure Apple could put to bettet use the half-dozen (or so) engineers who are working on my filed bug reports.
How exactly did you do it? Did you download the install from the App Store, run it from the Applications folder, and point it at your external SSD? Or did you have to create a bootable USB stick, boot up from that, and install it on the external SSD?
As my post said, I used bootable installers. I downloaded the macOS Install Assistant and made the bootable Installers with the excellent and free MDS app.
MDS downloads the IA from Apple servers and uses createinstallmedia to make the bootable installer, so I don't believe using MDS is the reason mine worked. MDS is just a very easy way to download and make the bootable installer.
But I do believe using a bootable installer instead of running the IA from the Apps folder might be important. I have never tried that way. Definitely worth trying if you haven't...and a bootable installer is valuable tool for other reasons.
Yes, as per usual & with earlier betas, have installed on a Samsung 3.5" SSD in a OWC Thunderbolt chassis. No problem with this or other new systems. Since the Ventura GM release, have reformatted that SSD & installed a 'clean' Ventura by simply pointing it at the SSD at install (downloaded to the primary Monterey internal boot volume); then migrated the rest from a Monterey Time Machine backup. That also provides correct naming for the Ventura-data volume (Intel 2019 MacPro here).
Seems fine except for all the usual rubbish with poor support for third party pro apps, plugins, drivers & VIs etc. Par for the course with Apple ... hence the reason for a test volume like this. Once everything has been updated and verified as working properly, then I usually clone the new system & apps back to the interrnal boot volume via Carbon Copy Cloner (and also keeping a copy of the former system elsewhere, just in case). Have been using this approach for donkey's years, ie: last working system on the boot disk; next betas and/or new system on a separate SDD.
I notice however that Howard Oakely now recommends keeping & installing the two systems on separate boot volume groups on the original internal disk (assuming is large enough) & for various arguments relating to now 'how Apple do things' & some weirdness there (control freaks?) .... some of that varies depending if we're using Intel or Apple silicon macs. https://eclecticlight.co/2022/10/25/ventura-volume-layout/
See https://eclecticlight.co/2022/10/04/how-to-keep-monterey-when-upgrading-to-ventura/
He lists four options, but this one seems like a reasonable argument:
Internal storage
Apple recommends the first option, in which you create separate boot volume groups for the two systems within the same container on your regular internal startup disk, and many users have done that successfully in the past. The most difficult step is in the Ventura installation, which can’t be an upgrade performed through Software Update, but must use the full Ventura installer app, and must ensure that it doesn’t replace Monterey. What you should then end up with is two complete boot volume groups, each with its own Recovery volume, which you can switch between using the Startup Disk pane in System Preferences, or its equivalent in Ventura’s new System Settings.
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I was successful in both installing and then booting off an external SSD:
1) download Ventura image on a MBP14" with Monterey via System Pref / AppStore, let it finish and quit out of the installer once it launches
2) plug in my TB3 NVMe enclosure, it was filled with multiple HFS+ partitions and APFS volumes, I just took an existing 20GB HFS+ partition that was previously used for Monterey.
3) follow Apple's instruction in creating bootable installer:
support.apple.com
4) once it is done, shut down, long press TouchID (power button), it will scan for start up disk, choose the Ventura bootable volume
(I don't have to disable SIP or something similar, but I may have done that before but forgot that I did)
5) it is pretty straight forward once the installer runs, for my case I already created a new AFPS volume among the existing APFS container previously when I was still in Monterey, but I imagine you can do this with Disk Utility even when booting into this bootable installer
6) install took longer than I expected (like 20-30 minutes)
7) the Mac will reboot itself once done and it will go straight into the welcome screen of the new install volume (it means the startup volume setting is automatically changed from whatever your original volume was)
been testing the OS this way with the SSD dangling for half a day already. Even still works after sleep and wake as long as the SSD is not unplugged.
1) download Ventura image on a MBP14" with Monterey via System Pref / AppStore, let it finish and quit out of the installer once it launches
2) plug in my TB3 NVMe enclosure, it was filled with multiple HFS+ partitions and APFS volumes, I just took an existing 20GB HFS+ partition that was previously used for Monterey.
3) follow Apple's instruction in creating bootable installer:
Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support (HK)
You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system. These steps are primarily for system administrators and other experienced users who are familiar with entering commands in Terminal.
(I don't have to disable SIP or something similar, but I may have done that before but forgot that I did)
5) it is pretty straight forward once the installer runs, for my case I already created a new AFPS volume among the existing APFS container previously when I was still in Monterey, but I imagine you can do this with Disk Utility even when booting into this bootable installer
6) install took longer than I expected (like 20-30 minutes)
7) the Mac will reboot itself once done and it will go straight into the welcome screen of the new install volume (it means the startup volume setting is automatically changed from whatever your original volume was)
been testing the OS this way with the SSD dangling for half a day already. Even still works after sleep and wake as long as the SSD is not unplugged.
Over summer I installed a Beta on an external SSD and booted successfully (just to play around and since deleted because it was annoying that security measures meant I couldn't use Touch ID keyboard on the internal Monterey Boot)
No special procedure needed. Just grabbed a full install pkg and pointed the destination to the external SSD (Samsung). BUT, a failed install was reported at the end of the process. Despite the message the install had been successful and it showed up as a Bootable drive. I wonder if others are seeing a failure message and taking that at face value. It might be the install did work, its just not being reported that way.
No special procedure needed. Just grabbed a full install pkg and pointed the destination to the external SSD (Samsung). BUT, a failed install was reported at the end of the process. Despite the message the install had been successful and it showed up as a Bootable drive. I wonder if others are seeing a failure message and taking that at face value. It might be the install did work, its just not being reported that way.
It is EXTREMELY frustrating to read all the answers from you people (many thanks ) because I've tried ALL the above suggestions but nothing worked (except I did not use MDS to create the installer but the terminal instead). In fact I've tried multiple times. It goes as far as trying to reboot after install and failing with the message that the disk is not bootable.
The only explanation I can think of is that the disks I'm using are incompatible. I tried on one USB-C "Intenso portable SSD professional 250GB" , and a USB-3 Western Digital 500 GB (trying first with a USC-C adapter, and then with a Plexgear multiport USB-C hub).
The only explanation I can think of is that the disks I'm using are incompatible. I tried on one USB-C "Intenso portable SSD professional 250GB" , and a USB-3 Western Digital 500 GB (trying first with a USC-C adapter, and then with a Plexgear multiport USB-C hub).
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FWIW having the external drive connected via hub has been a cause of failure for me in the past. I should stick with direct connection.
I am positive than your drive connection or the drive enclosure/interface itself should be the problem. I don't think macOS is particularly picky about where it boot from as long as your Mac's security settings allow it (in Recovery).
Matter of fact I managed to clone Monterey installs on USB3 (type-A) 2.5" HDDs, just as a backup of course. It is bloody slow but it boots.
Matter of fact I managed to clone Monterey installs on USB3 (type-A) 2.5" HDDs, just as a backup of course. It is bloody slow but it boots.
Start up Security Security settings (setup in Recovery) can be Full Security unless you are trying to install an older macOS (hence less secure) in which case you do need Reduced Security.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/sec7d92dc49f/web
This is a change on Silicon Macs from T2 Intel Macs, which did require a change in the Startup Security to boot external drives.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208198
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