Has Apple quality gone away?...

[317342]

Their volume of shipped product is nowhere near where it was in ten years ago. I'd posit Apple is a lot better QC than most of their competitors for the volume they're doing (esp. compared to 10-20 years ago).

Meanwhile, Microsoft isn't shipping anywhere near the volume of devices Apple is yet things appear to be going just fine....

 

[Anarchy99]

I do agree that Apple's quality is not what it used to be. Could this be since the CEO is not who he used to be?

Totally, Tim Cook was a logistics guy all he cares about is maximizing efficency/profit.
its like he had a childs understanding of what Jobs wanted to accomplish, and his take away was lighter & thinner for lighter & thinner's sake, then he used his skill set to continue what he thought the goals were.

in my opinion they should have made Scott Forstall CEO, they needed young blood & passion at the helm not a bean counter.

In all seriousness though, I'm starting to lose faith in Apple. They need to catch up with the times. Samsun has had water resistance and wireless charging for years, Apple, this isn't anything new...
On their MacBooks, removing all the ports and making it paper thin, all this is going to do is make your $1,000+ MacBook look and feel like a toy and cause less people to buy it in fear of buying and losing dongles/adapters. The current iOS version (iOS 11) is buggy as hell and pretty unstable, same can be said to High Sierra. It's just not what the company would have been if Steve was still here.

not to mention sideloading apps, being able to do waterproofing while maintaining a headphone jack, NFC thats open to developers, its too bad Samsungs picking up Apple's bad habits not the other way round.
then the macbooks, there no reason you couldnt have stuck with and improved on what people liked (2012-2015 rMBP)
also i understand there thought of touch bar was because "function keys are intimidating" but these aren't machines for newbs, it has Pro in the name is should serve Pro befor anyone else, if the newbs cant handle it they have 14days to return it for a ipad.
but thats a moot point because touch bar could have fit above the function keys before the heat vent.

i could rant more but its getting tiring trying to convince Apple take 4-5+ grand of my money every two years if they dont want to

 

[Lioness~]

Apple Inc; is 40+ years old and enjoying a corporate mid life crisis. The corporate inner circle is distracted doing the fabolus life in Cupertino.

Just saying Apple could spend millions re developing Siri. An outside collaborative could hack it out for thousands.

Exactly, it’s not about lack of money, it’s about lack of interest and brains.
They are probably so busy spending their money, so they don’t have time to think outside their bubble.
If they even can.
They could hire some brains, to raise the quality, to get better work done.
But that’s obviously not their preferences these days. Quantity is.

I do agree that Apple's quality is not what it used to be. Could this be since the CEO is not who he used to be?

In all seriousness though, I'm starting to lose faith in Apple. They need to catch up with the times. Samsun has had water resistance and wireless charging for years, Apple, this isn't anything new... On their MacBooks, removing all the ports and making it paper thin, all this is going to do is make your $1,000+ MacBook look and feel like a toy and cause less people to buy it in fear of buying and losing dongles/adapters. The current iOS version (iOS 11) is buggy as hell and pretty unstable, same can be said to High Sierra. It's just not what the company would have been if Steve was still here.

Agree coompletely.
More and more users complain, eventually it will reach the Apple top.
Isn’t that interesting, the thinking starts in users, to change the company today.
The company and the leader that once showed us the way, now the users will show Apple the way.
If they will get that.


Since iCloud stopped syncing across my devices with iOS 11 and Apple had no solution, I got it that it’s time to find other solutions elsewhere.
My SynologyNAS do the syncing in some ways today.
Apple even wanted me to work for free for them and continue sending in reports to them, to support them in their work. No way. Told my senior, how backwards that was.

See if they will get back on track. iOS 11 worst ever.

Or I get farther away from Apple.

 

[clangers23]

Their volume of shipped product is nowhere near where it was in ten years ago. I'd posit Apple is a lot better QC than most of their competitors for the volume they're doing (esp. compared to 10-20 years ago).

Meanwhile, Microsoft isn't shipping anywhere near the volume of devices Apple is yet things appear to be going just fine....

It's their design ethos rather than hardware manufacturing quality that's deteriorated for me. Nicely summed up by the Macbook Pro. Non-serviceable construction alongside flawed, limited lifespan design.

The quality of their software engineering on the other hand has definitely taken a turn for the worse.

Additionally the whole attitude of the company under Tim Cook just comes across as contemptible now probably as a consequence of their dominance. Buy an iPhone for a $1000 plus and we'll still charge you extra for a fast charger. Pay sky high prices for our new laptop model but don't expect a USB adapter included. Their focus more than ever now is how to screw the consumer out of every last cent irrespective of whatever long term damage it does to their reputation.

Selling laughably outdated products (Mac Mini, Mac Pro, iPad Mini, Macbook Air, previous MacBook Pro without a design update for over three years) just adds to the contempt.

There will come a day when they're not perceived as 'cool' by a generation.

 

[greenmeanie]

My 2011 was rock solid.

 

[rafark]

Their volume of shipped product is nowhere near where it was in ten years ago. I'd posit Apple is a lot better QC than most of their competitors for the volume they're doing (esp. compared to 10-20 years ago).

Meanwhile, Microsoft isn't shipping anywhere near the volume of devices Apple is yet things appear to be going just fine....

I could not care less if they sell 1 or 10000000 to others, I'm giving them 1k, 2k, 3k $ and as such I expect more than a decent product.

 

[Starfia]

I think the overall quality has stayed the same or improved – that sounds like an unfortunate streak, though.

 

[TheSkywalker77]

See if they will get back on track. iOS 11 worst ever.

If they don't end up fixing iOS 11 I'm gonna be close to done with Apple. As much as I love their products and software, High Sierra and iOS 11 have all disappointed me with bugs. :/
[doublepost=1525524656][/doublepost]

Totally, Tim Cook was a logistics guy all he cares about is maximizing efficency/profit.
its like he had a childs understanding of what Jobs wanted to accomplish, and his take away was lighter & thinner for lighter & thinner's sake, then he used his skill set to continue what he thought the goals were.

in my opinion they should have made Scott Forstall CEO, they needed young blood & passion at the helm not a bean counter.

Tim ruined the MacBook by removing every port but a headphone jack (ironic, I know) and 4 USB-C's. Yes, I agree everything's gonna switch to USB-C soon, but Apple, can you just replace the mini display port with USB-C and keep everything else on the computer? And getting rid of MagSafe... That just boggles my mind as MagSafe was one of the best things Apple ever made, and now they just drop it?...

 

[steve09090]

True but it’s still fair to say that back in Jobs time Apple didn’t have the market share they have nowadays, so that makes me point valid that more mass manufactured units = less attention to the quality and detail.

Or there are a higher number of defects in total because there are many around. I doubt the % has increased much, if at all.

And their service is still the highest rated in the industry.

 

[Anarchy99]

If they don't end up fixing iOS 11 I'm gonna be close to done with Apple. As much as I love their products and software, High Sierra and iOS 11 have all disappointed me with bugs. :/
[doublepost=1525524656][/doublepost]
Tim ruined the MacBook by removing every port but a headphone jack (ironic, I know) and 4 USB-C's. Yes, I agree everything's gonna switch to USB-C soon, but Apple, can you just replace the mini display port with USB-C and keep everything else on the computer? And getting rid of MagSafe... That just boggles my mind as MagSafe was one of the best things Apple ever made, and now they just drop it?...

Exactly less ports from a supply chain/profit perspective is a good thing, it just sucks for customers.

when Jobs removed or changed things it was small bits at a time or atleast only when he could invision a net good for the user
eg. no floppy drive & standardizing USB in the OG iMac or ADC which was DVI+audio+power (which most would consider a flop but his heart was in the right place and usb-c show us it was a concept before its time)

that said just cause the iMac did that didnt mean it didnt have firewire, ethernet etc. heck the OG ones could be external displays, which admittedly went away for a while but made a comeback as target display mode in 2009 and later.

until the 5k iMac took away the feature away and suprise suprise who was at the helm when another useful and uniquely mac feature was killed Tim Cook.
(yes i understand it would have been harder to implment on 5k imacs not impossible though and that still doesnt explain why the new 4k and 1080p iMacs can no longer do it )

im not saying Jobs was perfect but he stood up and went against the grain, sometimes that got us magsafe other times a G4 cube but thats ok
it wasnt this paint by numbers while you cuck to the apple board that Cook seems to do.

 

[317342]

I could not care less if they sell 1 or 10000000 to others, I'm giving them 1k, 2k, 3k $ and as such I expect more than a decent product.

Right, and that's why you get a warranty. It's not about what you want or deserve--everyone, including Apple, wants a perfect product out-of-the-box but that's not reality.

In short, spending $1-5k on a product alone doesn't make you special; it makes you a customer, entitling you to nothing more than a warranty and/or a 14-day return period.

Now if you don't like being a customer in a market economy, build your own product; otherwise, you're welcome to organize a vanguard workers party, seize the means of production, overthrow the capitalists, and setup a command economy in your own vision where each product rolling down the assembly line is nothing short of absolutely perfect.

 

[rafark]

Right, and that's why you get a warranty. It's not about what you want or deserve--.

Yes it is.

In short, spending $1-5k on a product alone doesn't make you special; it makes you a customer, entitling you to

Yes it does. The moment I pay them (which is a pretty penny) I am fully entitled of a working product. Neither I, nor the law cares how many they make. That's the company's business not the customer's.

 

[ixxx69]

Yes it does. The moment I pay them (which is a pretty penny) I am fully entitled of a working product. Neither I, nor the law cares how many they make. That's the company's business not the customer's.

But you got a working product. And the product is covered under a warranty for a year. And you can extend that to three years. So what's the problem?

 

[Falhófnir]

Their volume of shipped product is nowhere near where it was in ten years ago. I'd posit Apple is a lot better QC than most of their competitors for the volume they're doing (esp. compared to 10-20 years ago).

Meanwhile, Microsoft isn't shipping anywhere near the volume of devices Apple is yet things appear to be going just fine....

Volume doesn’t really come into it, most of these products roll off the same far eastern assembly lines and go through the same checks and will have a similar %age rate of failure based on using much the same components... I agree perhaps Apple are somewhat unfairly expected to ‘do better’ but in fairness they charge more than most and some of the problems are their own fault (melting gpus and self destruct keyboards for e.g.)

 

[ixxx69]

Volume doesn’t really come into it, most of these products roll off the same far eastern assembly lines and go through the same checks and will have a similar %age rate of failure based on using much the same components... I agree perhaps Apple are somewhat unfairly expected to ‘do better’ but in fairness they charge more than most and some of the problems are their own fault (melting gpus and self destruct keyboards for e.g.)

First, the point of "volume" is very relevant depending on how the "argument" is being framed... if someone argues that there's more issues than there used to be, and therefor quality is going down, the counter argument is going to be that there's more issues because they're selling a lot more Macs.

When examining quality control, what we really want to know is the % of Macs that are defective/failing. Of course, we have little idea whether there's been any change overall.

It's worth speculating on, but as usual, too many posters around here think MacRumors is representative of actual reality.

 

[Fishrrman]

I'm not sure if Apple's "build quality" has "gone away".

But design-wise, their "common sense" certainly has.

They seem to be designing laptops that are "all-but unrepairable" from a repairman's standpoint. The design is such that the parts are so melded together as to be "not separately replaceable" any more. This makes many repairs exorbitantly expensive.

All to have "the thinnest laptop around".

They are chasing the wrong idol.

 

[debhead]

I'm having issues with iPhone and Apple Watch. Officially lost what was a loyal customer. I'm tired of their high priced garbage.

 

[Queen6]

Yes; The philosophy has clearly changed over the years from being the best you can be, to the most profitable you can. On that journey the quality of both hardware & software has diminished. Add in Apple's hubris and here we are today...

Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

According to comments here over the years, Apple quality has declined with each new model since about 2000. By now, if one adds up all the declines, the quality is roughly 5% of what it used to be, when Apple was a nonprofit under Steve Jobs.

 

[Falhófnir]

They still make quality computers in most regards, but their priorities have gotten massively out of kilter with what people expect from them. Durability and longevity are a huge part of 'quality' for most people, and that really went out the window with the 2016-19 models with the failure prone keyboards, fragile display flex, flimsy feeling screen, speaker issues etc. Also the software seems to be increasingly buggy and unoptimised in the name of getting a new version with at least one big tentpole feature out every single year. Many of these issues were addressed with the 16" but they were very slow to respond, and they still haven't fixed the smaller model. Their stance on modularity (everything soldered to the logic board) and how that impacts repairability is also dyssynchronous with their otherwise good moves on environmental impact.

 

[maflynn]

I'm of the opinion that back in the day Apple's focus was to make the best computer possible, I mean back when Apple started they lined up the logic board components in a way that showed an obsessiveness to design, and quality. Steve Job's was known to complain about the smallest detail

Today, Apple's focus is on profits and while designing/selling premium computers is the mean to justify that end, they've accepted designs and short comings including cutting corners that would never have flown with Jobs at the helm imo.

I'm not saying apple was perfect under the Jobs era but they were a helluva more focused on design/functionality then squeezing the most profits.

 

[sakagura]

I'm of the opinion that back in the day Apple's focus was to make the best computer possible, I mean back when Apple started they lined up the logic board components in a way that showed an obsessiveness to design, and quality. Steve Job's was known to complain about the smallest detail

Today, Apple's focus is on profits and while designing/selling premium computers is the mean to justify that end, they've accepted designs and short comings including cutting corners that would never have flown with Jobs at the helm imo.

I'm not saying apple was perfect under the Jobs era but they were a helluva more focused on design/functionality then squeezing the most profits.

True. Jobs gave engineers a fear factor. Cook gives soft vibes and I don't know anything about the other chiefs. They look asleep at the wheel and gave all the control of the company to the big shareholders.

Yes quality/usability gone down a lot. Accessories, dongles and shareholders are more important than Mac users.

 

[Queen6]

True. Jobs gave engineers a fear factor. Cook gives soft vibes and I don't know anything about the other chiefs. They look asleep at the wheel and gave all the control of the company to the big shareholders.

Yes quality/usability gone down a lot. Accessories, dongles and shareholders are more important than Mac users.

Mark up on cables, dongles and such like is significant. Apple's designs these days first and foremost are designed with Apple itself in mind, not producing the best possible for the customer. RAM, SSD is now part of the logic board as it's cheaper to manufacture, single port solution again a production/manufacturing saving.

All forcing in-house upgrades with significant margin, and sales of accessories. In small form factor notebooks we can agree that this also serves practicality in larger sized notebooks touted as Pro devices absolutely not is a sheer cash grab...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

I'm of the opinion that back in the day Apple's focus was to make the best computer possible, I mean back when Apple started they lined up the logic board components in a way that showed an obsessiveness to design, and quality. Steve Job's was known to complain about the smallest detail

Today, Apple's focus is on profits and while designing/selling premium computers is the mean to justify that end, they've accepted designs and short comings including cutting corners that would never have flown with Jobs at the helm imo.

I'm not saying apple was perfect under the Jobs era but they were a helluva more focused on design/functionality then squeezing the most profits.

Very much agree, Apple was always more expensive nor perfect, yet one did have a sense that Apple was doing it's level best to produce the best for the customer under Steve Jobs. Today Apple is solely focused on milking it's customers to the maximum with profits being the only priority.

Had Steve Jobs not passed so early, I'd bet that Apple wouldn't have made that Trillion Dollar mark so fast, equally the hardware and software would be a dam sight better than some of the current rubbish Apple is selling...

Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

Ah, the good old days. If you look back at discussions from then, they look just like discussions from now, with the same kinds of complaints about all sorts of issues, including quality control, durability, bugs, etc. But with time all that fades into a sentimental haze. I miss nonprofit Apple. It was never the same after they moved out of the garage.