Has the AppleTV been a failure?

[Jim Lahey]

The biggest problem with Apple TV is the TV app. The housekeeping and library management for purchased content is laughable. No way to custom edit title names. No way to customise artwork or group movies into collections or playlists. No way to mark anything as unwatched! Then there’s inconsistent or entirely missing contextual actions between the TV, Movies and TV Shows apps. It may all seem ok on the surface but compared to something like Plex it’s major amateur hour.

The hardware is fine but the software is willfully rubbish. It continues to amaze me that a multi-trillion dollar tech firm positioning itself as a TV and movie production company cannot design a half decent software platform for their content. You can’t even rearrange oddly named movie titles so that they appear in the order of chronological release! Honestly it’s an embarrassment and Apple needs to take a long look at the likes of Plex and Kodi if they ever want to be taken seriously in this space.

 

[phrehdd]

When I see ATV, I think of the 1960's Kodak Instamatic cameras that were created for the sole purpose to get people to buy Kodak film. ATV got people engaging Apple and it was pretty impressive and pretty nice ... well... until real competition (other than Roku) came along. ATV does now very well for those that like a more limited and Apple eco-friendly setup. I prefer another streamer for myself but am happy to set up Apple devices for friends and others.

 

[iTundra]

My biggest issue with ATV is inability to integrate with home automation systems. In our prior house I could press a single button (on Control 4 remote or panel) and systems would turn on and tune in to whatever channel/app that button was for. This was on an old Comcast cable box.

In our new house, with new ATV's as primary source on each TV, a button turns on the system but then we have to manually click to wake up ATV, scroll down and over to select app (Hulu), scroll up to select 'live', scroll up to change channel, scroll down to find channel, click to select channel (e.g., Bloomberg, whatever). On this front Apple TV is an antiquated PITA.

 

[AL2TEACH]

It will be if they don't get their head out of their er assets and get on board with DTS passthrough. I wonder if the passthrough issues are a hardware or software problem?

 

[HDFan]

but then we have to manually click to wake up ATV,

In our prior house I could press a single button (on Control 4 remote or panel)

If you are using a programmable remote to start up your system you can add a "Press Menu Button" action on startup to wake up the Apple TV. That's what I do with my Harmony remotes.

 

[alexhardaker]

I think they need to change the name of the hardware. A lot of people get confused between the  TV box,  TV app &  TV+.

I don’t understand how they just let it run as it is. Hopefully the rumoured  TV with a HomePod built in brings a name change.

 

[Feek]

I am using Gen 2 Apple TV, and I am happy with it. I would like to buy a new one, but the problem with Apple TV is it is incredibly expensive for what it's doing.

The ATV2 was discontinued ten years ago and sold for $99. If you bought it in the final year, it's cost you $9.99/year or 2.7c/day.

Seems like a bargain to me.

 

[brucewayne]

My biggest issue with ATV is inability to integrate with home automation systems. In our prior house I could press a single button (on Control 4 remote or panel) and systems would turn on and tune in to whatever channel/app that button was for. This was on an old Comcast cable box.

In our new house, with new ATV's as primary source on each TV, a button turns on the system but then we have to manually click to wake up ATV, scroll down and over to select app (Hulu), scroll up to select 'live', scroll up to change channel, scroll down to find channel, click to select channel (e.g., Bloomberg, whatever). On this front Apple TV is an antiquated PITA.

There is a huge difference between a cable box with rarely changing individually addressed linear channels accessible by a 3 digit number and an Apple TV based on an always changing on demand menu structure pulling content from a myriad of different sources.

 

[oneMadRssn]

In our new house, with new ATV's as primary source on each TV, a button turns on the system but then we have to manually click to wake up ATV, scroll down and over to select app (Hulu), scroll up to select 'live', scroll up to change channel, scroll down to find channel, click to select channel (e.g., Bloomberg, whatever). On this front Apple TV is an antiquated PITA.

The problem is you're trying to use an antiquated way of consuming media (linear scheduled broadcast) on a device designed for modern media consumption (on-demand steaming).

 

[kiranmk2]

Has it failed? I would say so, yes. For the first 7-8 years it was clearthey didn't really know how to pitch the Apple TV so it was relegated to hobby status. Then with the launch of the 4th gen Apple proudly proclaimed that the future of TV is Apps which suggested they finally knew how to push the device. But at the same time they completely messed up the message and function. The Apple TV should have become the one-stop shop for everything on the TV - you should be able to leave the TV always on the Apple TV input and never need to use other devices, but somehow Apple let it slip through their fingers. Yes, Apple TV gives a smoother experience compared to TV built-in apps but it is so over-priced and over-specced.

Here is what Apple could (and should) have done from the launch of the Apple TV 4th gen

• Gaming - remove the need for a gaming console
  • Allowed games to require a controller other than the Siri remote
  • Invested in some gaming studios to create / port games to TvOS
  • Allowed XBox cloud, PS Now, Google Stadia, NVidia GeForce Now etc onto the App Store
• Broadcast TV - remove the need for the OTA / pay-TV box
  • Made the TV app better (and encouraged/paid companies to make their apps compatible) - maybe more user customisation for groups / favourites and what kind of shows you like
  • Found a way to get broadcast TV onto the box - either via encouraging networks to have a 'live TV' option in their streaming app or via built-in support for devices like HD Home Run - then enable an EPG type option in the TV app
  • Made a new, stripped back A-chip with fewer cores to enable a lower cost. non-gaming device to sell for <£99/$99 - just focus on the encode/decode capabilities
• Bring on board enthusiasts
  • Allowed passthrough of audio and support of DTS sound (perhaps via a license purchase in the App store)
  • Build a better interface for network shares
• More appeal for general households
  • Make Apple TVs act as a mesh WiFi network - gives a reason to buy multiple units
  • Make user switching and content sharing between family members easier (e.g. Apps like Netflix automatically open with the right user profile when the Apple TV user is changed)

Is it too late now? Maybe as TV built-in apps provide a good-enough experience for most people. The Gen 2 4K comes across as a device that was going to be launched 12-18 months earlier than it was and then dumped out. Not supporting all HDMI 2.1 features was a massive omission to me.

 

[jwolf6589]

Has it failed? I would say so, yes. For the first 7-8 years it was clearthey didn't really know how to pitch the Apple TV so it was relegated to hobby status. Then with the launch of the 4th gen Apple proudly proclaimed that the future of TV is Apps which suggested they finally knew how to push the device. But at the same time they completely messed up the message and function. The Apple TV should have become the one-stop shop for everything on the TV - you should be able to leave the TV always on the Apple TV input and never need to use other devices, but somehow Apple let it slip through their fingers. Yes, Apple TV gives a smoother experience compared to TV built-in apps but it is so over-priced and over-specced.

Here is what Apple could (and should) have done from the launch of the Apple TV 4th gen

• Gaming - remove the need for a gaming console
  • Allowed games to require a controller other than the Siri remote
  • Invested in some gaming studios to create / port games to TvOS
  • Allowed XBox cloud, PS Now, Google Stadia, NVidia GeForce Now etc onto the App Store
• Broadcast TV - remove the need for the OTA / pay-TV box
  • Made the TV app better (and encouraged/paid companies to make their apps compatible) - maybe more user customisation for groups / favourites and what kind of shows you like
  • Found a way to get broadcast TV onto the box - either via encouraging networks to have a 'live TV' option in their streaming app or via built-in support for devices like HD Home Run - then enable an EPG type option in the TV app
  • Made a new, stripped back A-chip with fewer cores to enable a lower cost. non-gaming device to sell for <£99/$99 - just focus on the encode/decode capabilities
• Bring on board enthusiasts
  • Allowed passthrough of audio and support of DTS sound (perhaps via a license purchase in the App store)
  • Build a better interface for network shares
• More appeal for general households
  • Make Apple TVs act as a mesh WiFi network - gives a reason to buy multiple units
  • Make user switching and content sharing between family members easier (e.g. Apps like Netflix automatically open with the right user profile when the Apple TV user is changed)

Is it too late now? Maybe as TV built-in apps provide a good-enough experience for most people. The Gen 2 4K comes across as a device that was going to be launched 12-18 months earlier than it was and then dumped out. Not supporting all HDMI 2.1 features was a massive omission to me.

I disagree with the critics of the ATV. ATV is really a great device and I am sad that so many prefer Android or Roku over it. My parents used to have a Roku but traded it in for a ATV as they believe the ATV is the better device.

With the ATV my Podcasts, music, photos, movies, and such appear on it. I also can link my iPhone to the ATV and use its keyboard, use airplay, and when I bought my 4K unit the other week I just setup the new ATV by holding iPhone next to it. How convenient!

 

[Juicy Box]

Has it failed? I would say so, yes. For the first 7-8 years it was clearthey didn't really know how to pitch the Apple TV so it was relegated to hobby status. Then with the launch of the 4th gen Apple proudly proclaimed that the future of TV is Apps which suggested they finally knew how to push the device. But at the same time they completely messed up the message and function. The Apple TV should have become the one-stop shop for everything on the TV - you should be able to leave the TV always on the Apple TV input and never need to use other devices, but somehow Apple let it slip through their fingers. Yes, Apple TV gives a smoother experience compared to TV built-in apps but it is so over-priced and over-specced.

Here is what Apple could (and should) have done from the launch of the Apple TV 4th gen

• Gaming - remove the need for a gaming console
  • Allowed games to require a controller other than the Siri remote
  • Invested in some gaming studios to create / port games to TvOS
  • Allowed XBox cloud, PS Now, Google Stadia, NVidia GeForce Now etc onto the App Store
• Broadcast TV - remove the need for the OTA / pay-TV box
  • Made the TV app better (and encouraged/paid companies to make their apps compatible) - maybe more user customisation for groups / favourites and what kind of shows you like
  • Found a way to get broadcast TV onto the box - either via encouraging networks to have a 'live TV' option in their streaming app or via built-in support for devices like HD Home Run - then enable an EPG type option in the TV app
  • Made a new, stripped back A-chip with fewer cores to enable a lower cost. non-gaming device to sell for <£99/$99 - just focus on the encode/decode capabilities
• Bring on board enthusiasts
  • Allowed passthrough of audio and support of DTS sound (perhaps via a license purchase in the App store)
  • Build a better interface for network shares
• More appeal for general households
  • Make Apple TVs act as a mesh WiFi network - gives a reason to buy multiple units
  • Make user switching and content sharing between family members easier (e.g. Apps like Netflix automatically open with the right user profile when the Apple TV user is changed)

Is it too late now? Maybe as TV built-in apps provide a good-enough experience for most people. The Gen 2 4K comes across as a device that was going to be launched 12-18 months earlier than it was and then dumped out. Not supporting all HDMI 2.1 features was a massive omission to me.

Great list. I agree with almost every point.

The Apple TV should have become the one-stop shop for everything on the TV

From the pre-ATV4 rumors, this seemed to be the original intent of tvOS, but Apple just blew it.

The Gen 2 4K comes across as a device that was going to be launched 12-18 months earlier than it was and then dumped out.

Yeah. I think the ATV4K2 was more about consolidating A12 chips in multiple devices (and ditching the A10X which was only in the ATV4K1 at the time), than providing the Apple TV a significant update.

Performance wise, the A12 is pretty much on par with the A10. Comparing the performance difference between the A8 in the ATV4 and the A10X in the ATV4K1, is night and day.

Not supporting all HDMI 2.1 features was a massive omission to me.

Besides what I already mentioned about the lack of performance increase, two big things that really bothered me with the ATV4K2 is the new Siri Remote, and the same storage options.

I am not a fan of the Siri Remote 1, but the new Siri Remote removed functionality, making some apps unable to be used with the Siri Remote 2. I have a Mfi controller, but some apps still require the Siri Remote 1 to work, and Apple stopped selling them, leading me to have to find one used on eBay.

The storage option of 64GB is too small for someone that downloads games. I am constantly running out of storage on my Apple TVs, having to delete stuff to download new apps, or assets of existing games.

It only takes a handful of Apple Arcade games to fill the 64GB Apple TV.

 

[subjonas]

How are we supposed to know sales figures? lol.
All I know is mine is awesome and I need it. Great UI, remote, I/O, and ecosystem integration with my Mac, iPad, iPhone, HomePods, Siri, and Beats Flex.

 

[thetowerlibrary]

The only streaming devices I've owned are Apple TVs. I started with Apple TV 4K Gen 1 and recently upgraded to Apple TV 4K Gen 2.

For me it's the only option as I have a large library of movies and tv shows through itunes, subscribed to apple music, etc. I think it's a great device. Nice clean ui and very smooth.

The only fault with it for me is I would like it if they offered an M1 Apple TV so you can play Apple Arcade games with better performance. The A12 is somewhat weak.

 

[BootLoxes]

Recently moved from a Chromecast with GoogleTV to the newest AppleTV. Here is what I noticed

Streaming-wise they were mostly the same, but I liked that I could direct connect an ethernet cable to it.

Main menu was clean on the AppleTV. The Chromecast filled my home menu with tons of ads and recommendations for TV shows on apps that I did not even own.

Being able to access my photos and media was a huge plus for the AppleTV

Yesterday my friend came over and we discussed finances. While sitting on the couch I could mirror my spreadsheets from my iPhone to the big screen so he could see them more easily.

I can use my iPhone to pause, rewind and fast forward, and change language and subtitles all on the lock screen.

Finally the AppleTV remote could be setup to control and mute my speakers. The Chromecast was not compatible.

Overall these were huge upgrades that made it more than worth the purchase.

I do not think it is a failure overall. It just caters to a more niche userbase. Most would be perfectly happy with a cheaper Chromecast or FireStick

 

[jwolf6589]

Great list. I agree with almost every point.


From the pre-ATV4 rumors, this seemed to be the original intent of tvOS, but Apple just blew it.


Yeah. I think the ATV4K2 was more about consolidating A12 chips in multiple devices (and ditching the A10X which was only in the ATV4K1 at the time), than providing the Apple TV a significant update.

Performance wise, the A12 is pretty much on par with the A10. Comparing the performance difference between the A8 in the ATV4 and the A10X in the ATV4K1, is night and day.


Besides what I already mentioned about the lack of performance increase, two big things that really bothered me with the ATV4K2 is the new Siri Remote, and the same storage options.

I am not a fan of the Siri Remote 1, but the new Siri Remote removed functionality, making some apps unable to be used with the Siri Remote 2. I have a Mfi controller, but some apps still require the Siri Remote 1 to work, and Apple stopped selling them, leading me to have to find one used on eBay.

The storage option of 64GB is too small for someone that downloads games. I am constantly running out of storage on my Apple TVs, having to delete stuff to download new apps, or assets of existing games.

It only takes a handful of Apple Arcade games to fill the 64GB Apple TV.

I recently upgraded from the HD to the new ATV 4K. I love the new Siri remote and new ATV! I think the new remote is much much better than the old one. Its got more features such as mute, on/off button, back button, etc.. Also the A12 chip is faster than the A8 chip as I also noticed when I upgraded from the iPad Mini 4 to the 5 unit some years ago. I have zero complaints with the ATV 4K.

 

[jwolf6589]

Recently moved from a Chromecast with GoogleTV to the newest AppleTV. Here is what I noticed

Streaming-wise they were mostly the same, but I liked that I could direct connect an ethernet cable to it.

Main menu was clean on the AppleTV. The Chromecast filled my home menu with tons of ads and recommendations for TV shows on apps that I did not even own.

Being able to access my photos and media was a huge plus for the AppleTV

Yesterday my friend came over and we discussed finances. While sitting on the couch I could mirror my spreadsheets from my iPhone to the big screen so he could see them more easily.

I can use my iPhone to pause, rewind and fast forward, and change language and subtitles all on the lock screen.

Finally the AppleTV remote could be setup to control and mute my speakers. The Chromecast was not compatible.

Overall these were huge upgrades that made it more than worth the purchase.

I do not think it is a failure overall. It just caters to a more niche userbase. Most would be perfectly happy with a cheaper Chromecast or FireStick

True and I agree with you. Also a huge huge plus is being able to setup a new ATV by holding your iPhone next to it. A huge time saver!

 

[jwolf6589]

The only streaming devices I've owned are Apple TVs. I started with Apple TV 4K Gen 1 and recently upgraded to Apple TV 4K Gen 2.

For me it's the only option as I have a large library of movies and tv shows through itunes, subscribed to apple music, etc. I think it's a great device. Nice clean ui and very smooth.

The only fault with it for me is I would like it if they offered an M1 Apple TV so you can play Apple Arcade games with better performance. The A12 is somewhat weak.

I have no experience with games but lets hope they offer a new ATV with the M1 chip.

 

[Ruggy]

It depends what you want to do with it. If you want apple music and apple photos or to use Siri, then it's pretty much your only choice.
If you just want to stream apps to your TV then it's way over priced.
The latest 4K Firestick bought without advertising, is easily as slick, has all the apps you could need (including Apple TV+).
I've just checked and all my Apple+ purchases are available in the app on the Firestick.
It's much smaller.
The remote switches on all my TVs and works the sound on 2 of them
On offer it costs about $30 (€30 here anyway)
No contest.

 

[BootLoxes]

True and I agree with you. Also a huge huge plus is being able to setup a new ATV by holding your iPhone next to it. A huge time saver!

I had no idea that was possible

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Apple should have built a T-series SOC with their own Apple TV software baked in that they could licence out to TV manufacturers.

There is a huge market for 'smart' TV's because you don't need an extra box or wires which is great for wall-mounting but the UX for Android sets is pretty terrible.

They could have owned this market via licencing but instead assumed people would buy a box that isn't as good as a games console rather than a nice convenient HDMI dongle.

 

[jwolf6589]

It depends what you want to do with it. If you want apple music and apple photos or to use Siri, then it's pretty much your only choice.
If you just want to stream apps to your TV then it's way over priced.
The latest 4K Firestick bought without advertising, is easily as slick, has all the apps you could need (including Apple TV+).
I've just checked and all my Apple+ purchases are available in the app on the Firestick.
It's much smaller.
The remote switches on all my TVs and works the sound on 2 of them
On offer it costs about $30 (€30 here anyway)
No contest.

Yeah but I bet you cant airplay to it, setup it up by holding iPhone next to it, use AirPods on it, etc..

 

[kiranmk2]

I disagree with the critics of the ATV. ATV is really a great device and I am sad that so many prefer Android or Roku over it. My parents used to have a Roku but traded it in for a ATV as they believe the ATV is the better device.

With the ATV my Podcasts, music, photos, movies, and such appear on it. I also can link my iPhone to the ATV and use its keyboard, use airplay, and when I bought my 4K unit the other week I just setup the new ATV by holding iPhone next to it. How convenient!

I think you are coming across like a massive fanboy that just lives to praise Apple. Do I like the Apple TV? Yes. Do I have one? I have several. Do I think it's good value? No.

I would equate smart TVs / Amazon streamers from 5-6 years ago like flying economy whilst the Apple TV was like flying first class. With the recent smart TVs I've used I would equate them to flying business whilst the Apple TV is first class. How many people would notice the difference (and pay the difference) to go from business to first class? You get to the destination at the same speed (i.e. streaming apps) but in a bit more luxury (faster, smoother, better UI).

In the UK an Apple TV 4K is £169. An Amazon Fire 4k Max stick is £55. How can you justify that price difference? If the Apple TV was £99 I think it would be easier to justify but at 3x the price? Again, If the Apple TV offered access to a decent gaming service with AAA titles then that would definitely justify the cost, but Apple just hasn't seemed interested.

You keep mentioning the tap to setup feature - again that is a really nice feature, but surely you will only use that once in the lifetime of the device?

I think Apple knew this too. It's clear that AirPlay 2 and Apple TV+ was added to a range of smart TVs because Apple knew they could not get enough people to buy Apple TVs.

 

[kiranmk2]

Yeah. I think the ATV4K2 was more about consolidating A12 chips in multiple devices (and ditching the A10X which was only in the ATV4K1 at the time), than providing the Apple TV a significant update.

Performance wise, the A12 is pretty much on par with the A10. Comparing the performance difference between the A8 in the ATV4 and the A10X in the ATV4K1, is night and day.

I definitely think the move to A12 was about getting rid of the A10X. My main gripe is that the A12 was the chip that went into everything in 2020 (iPad Air 3, iPad etc) which is what makes me think it was originally designed for release in 2020 when all the rumours were flying. For whatever reason, it didn't get released until 2021 but I get the feeling that rather than think 'Ok, let's update it to 2021 spec', they just launched the old 2020 spec model. As has been pointed out many times the A12 has a weaker GPU than the A10X!

Retaining the HDMI 2.0b port (and only enabling eARC as an HDMI 2.1 feature) is another sign of this as HDMI 2.1 chip-sets were very hard to come by in 2020, but fairly common in 2021.

 

[jwolf6589]

I think you are coming across like a massive fanboy that just lives to praise Apple. Do I like the Apple TV? Yes. Do I have one? I have several. Do I think it's good value? No.

I would equate smart TVs / Amazon streamers from 5-6 years ago like flying economy whilst the Apple TV was like flying first class. With the recent smart TVs I've used I would equate them to flying business whilst the Apple TV is first class. How many people would notice the difference (and pay the difference) to go from business to first class? You get to the destination at the same speed (i.e. streaming apps) but in a bit more luxury (faster, smoother, better UI).

In the UK an Apple TV 4K is £169. An Amazon Fire 4k Max stick is £55. How can you justify that price difference? If the Apple TV was £99 I think it would be easier to justify but at 3x the price? Again, If the Apple TV offered access to a decent gaming service with AAA titles then that would definitely justify the cost, but Apple just hasn't seemed interested.

You keep mentioning the tap to setup feature - again that is a really nice feature, but surely you will only use that once in the lifetime of the device?

I think Apple knew this too. It's clear that AirPlay 2 and Apple TV+ was added to a range of smart TVs because Apple knew they could not get enough people to buy Apple TVs.

Also remember the media apps on the appleTV that are useful to at least me and many others.