Mr MM
macrumors 65816
Indeed when lenovo puts out a 90w charger for their x230 that comes with i7 dual cores there is something wrong, so for me there needs to be a 120w for the 15, and the 85w goes to the 13, mbas receive 65 depending on the ulv
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Haswell / rMacBook Pro Q2 2013? When will we see it?
- Thread starter KravenMoorewood
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Indeed when lenovo puts out a 90w charger for their x230 that comes with i7 dual cores there is something wrong, so for me there needs to be a 120w for the 15, and the 85w goes to the 13, mbas receive 65 depending on the ulv
I thought the HD8870M would be better than that. While its benchmark seems impressive, the actual performance is not that much better than the GT650M. Just 1 extra frame in Crysis 3 @ ultra.
adjeff8
macrumors 6502
I was actually talking about the 15" for a price drop. And yes, Haswell will be worth waiting for, for me, as I've already waited 9 months. Gotta see it thru at this point
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That's not a 2nd Generation at all. It was a minor spec bump. That is all. Nothing else was changed or improved, except maxing out the ram on the high end 15". BTW-What I mean as 2nd gen is the 2nd gen of the retina computer with the specifically new design and guts that was first released in June. Not a minor spec bump designed to get more 1st gens out the door before the real 2nd gens come out.
Not that it'll ever happen, but I'd jump at the opportunity to upgrade the graphics on my imminent Haswell 15" rMBP to the 680MX 🙂
That would be awesome.
That would be awesome.
Mr MM
macrumors 65816
I dont trust notebookcheck reviews, they always have a way of screwing things up, the samsung series 7 with the 8750m has a problem, it downclocks in games, I dont even think that they noticed that, the 8870m is just a 7870m, and yes that card in the firepro form can reach the 670m, so yeah... think that this is just absurdly wrong
To complement that its probably a bios problem from smasung the card downclocks at 70c, so way cool in terms of gpu in such a small chassis
e²Studios
macrumors 68020
There are some upgraded internal parts in the Early 2013 models... I'd call it a 2nd gen, its not the same as the 1st and clearly there are new parts so you can't call it the same... http://9to5mac.com/2013/02/16/new-m...acbook-pros-use-some-upgraded-internal-parts/
vipergts2207
Suspended
The only upgraded part is a slightly higher clocked processor. Everything else is exactly the same; Apple just made them cheaper. That's not significant enough to consider a generation. The new Haswell MBPs later this year will have a new cpu with a new architecture and probably a new gpu as well.
e²Studios
macrumors 68020
vipergts2207
Suspended
Those upgrades have no real effect on performance or usage, unlike new cpus and gpus. New I/O board? They sound like a cheaper way to make the same part. Probably also what enabled Apple to drop the price.
e²Studios
macrumors 68020
Haswell trolls.. lol, next they'll be Broadwell trolls, though Broadwell will actually be more than a bump so maybe its more justified.
All I know is Intel marketing is freaking awesome to get so many people believing a bump will solve all their issues and bring world peace!!
vipergts2207
Suspended
e²Studios
macrumors 68020
Haswell is: 50 percent boost in integrated graphics. We don't know what, if anything, Apple will do with the discrete chip.
Haswell is: on-chip support for HDMI 1.4. That means the HDMI port will no longer be limited to 1080p like the current HDMI 1.2 port, but will also support QHD displays (2560x1440), even up to 4K displays. AFAIK it also means Ethernet support through the HDMI cable.
Haswell is: a significant reduction in power consumption in part due to the processor, in part due to better integrated graphics, in part due to the rest of the chipset going all the way down from 65nm to 32nm; a slight improvement for general computing, a much more significant one in situations in which integrated can take over from discrete or simply run graphics more efficiently.
Haswell MAY mean: an end to screen lag problems with integrated graphics on the Retina. Or perhaps the forthcoming software bug-fixes will take care of it before then.
Haswell MAY also mean: a cooler-running computer due to the chipset improvements and the lessened dependence on discrete graphics.
Whether it's a bump or more depends on what you do with the computer. And if recent history is any indications, other aspects of the computer, like SSD cost and capacity, will change indpendently of processor changes.
Haswell is: on-chip support for HDMI 1.4. That means the HDMI port will no longer be limited to 1080p like the current HDMI 1.2 port, but will also support QHD displays (2560x1440), even up to 4K displays. AFAIK it also means Ethernet support through the HDMI cable.
Haswell is: a significant reduction in power consumption in part due to the processor, in part due to better integrated graphics, in part due to the rest of the chipset going all the way down from 65nm to 32nm; a slight improvement for general computing, a much more significant one in situations in which integrated can take over from discrete or simply run graphics more efficiently.
Haswell MAY mean: an end to screen lag problems with integrated graphics on the Retina. Or perhaps the forthcoming software bug-fixes will take care of it before then.
Haswell MAY also mean: a cooler-running computer due to the chipset improvements and the lessened dependence on discrete graphics.
Whether it's a bump or more depends on what you do with the computer. And if recent history is any indications, other aspects of the computer, like SSD cost and capacity, will change indpendently of processor changes.
thekev
macrumors 604
I would agree. They try to make them compact. I have seen others on this board joke about how some other notebooks come with power bricks. It doesn't have to charge the machine while running at maximum load, but either providing one that can sustain it at that as a standard option or even a cto or accessory. Right now there isn't anything. It also adds quite a few cycles while plugged in if you encounter this regularly. That too is extremely annoying.
Dont forget the Haswell Refresh COULD also include WiFiac (which is bigish) and quiet possibly a slightly better graphics card.
There are too many people speaking of Haswell without even looking at the changes in specs. Haswell can provide up to 100% more floating point throughput in heavily vectorized applications (video encoding, rendering etc.). It includes AVX2 and FMA new instructions, moving from 16 single precision FLOPs per cycle (Sandy, Ivy) to 32. At the CPU level, it also contains other new features to improve multi-threading performance etc. The Quicksync engine for video encoding is also vastly more powerful. It is a "tock" in Intel terms, vs. a "tick" for Broadwell, which is the one that basically will not change the architecture from Haswell, probably only the GPU part.
If you only browse the web, I agree it is just a "bump", but then the low-spec Air is probably enough. But we are talking about the MacBook Pro here, so many people may also need to push its limits, and they will see a big difference.
Thank you for that. I agree, besides the at the CPU level I feel that Apple will be adding more to the rMBP.
Do you mind explaning this tick and tock thing to me? You are saying the architecture in broadwell will be the same as Haswell?
Intel usually introduces a new architecture (what they call "tock") when a fabrication process in mature. While they introduce a fabrication process using a mature architecture and shrinking it ("tick").
So Sandy Bridge was a "tock" (new architecture) using the same 32 nm process Westmere ("tick"from Nehalem) did. Ivy Bridge is just a shrink of Sandy Bridge (with a better GPU). As this is considered low risk, they can try the new fabrication process (22 nm). When the process is mature, Intel introduces a new architecture using it, Haswell this time. Broadwell will use a new process, 14 nm, but a similar architecture to Haswell, to reduce risk. Skylake will use the mature by then 14 nm process, but introducing a new CPU architecture, and so on.
The whole process is driven by the CPU core. That is not to say because of the smaller chip they cannot improve the GPU or add more cores at will, as they have more space available when the die shrinks.
adjeff8
macrumors 6502
I'm certainly not a troll. Just a guy waiting for a 2nd generation Retina. Not a puny spec bump. I guess we shall see who is right in a few months.
Yawn. New hardware instructions just means that you'll have to wait for years for most applications to catch up. By the time most software actually can take advantage of the improved vectorization operations, we'll easily be at Skylake or a later generation architecture.
I strongly disagree with the assertion that Haswell will translate to any noticeable difference for most users. Most people probably wouldn't even notice a significant difference between a high-end Nehalem chipset and today's Ivy Bridge (and tomorrow's Haswell) chips. If you're doing something so computationally expensive that you can notice the difference, then you likely aren't using a Mac anyways.
People here spend way too much money to upgrade machines for very incremental performance improvements.
I do not expect any price drops and an increase size in ssd. Performance will be better but only worth it for people who currently owns a 3+ years old laptop.
+1
but for me who has a macbook air 13" late 2012 i will give this to my girl and buy the haswell version of a retina macbook, for me a bump to cpu, a bump for battery and a bump for graphics it's enough, i only hope in july or max august there will be a retina macbook haswell to buy, i cannot wait longer than that
Haswell wont improve performance (a lot), but maybe some battery life on light usage due to additional sleep modes. I expect rather:
1. Better integrated gfx on Haswell, we know it as HD4600. With some programmers doing their work properly, this may be an end to sloppy graphics in OSX.
2. Better dedicated gfx, probably a bump to 750M. Which as some of you may know, means that we will get a performance of todays 660M GTX. And lets hope it will be overclocked slightly to be actually faster than 650M in current rMBP.
3. MAYBE better thermals, but from the unibody user perspective (owner of 15" cMPB and 17" cMBP) we may still see throttled CPU/GPU at heavy usage due to overheating. At least for maxed out models.
It won't be a huge change, but overall quality-of-life improvements may be worth it.
1. Better integrated gfx on Haswell, we know it as HD4600. With some programmers doing their work properly, this may be an end to sloppy graphics in OSX.
2. Better dedicated gfx, probably a bump to 750M. Which as some of you may know, means that we will get a performance of todays 660M GTX. And lets hope it will be overclocked slightly to be actually faster than 650M in current rMBP.
3. MAYBE better thermals, but from the unibody user perspective (owner of 15" cMPB and 17" cMBP) we may still see throttled CPU/GPU at heavy usage due to overheating. At least for maxed out models.
It won't be a huge change, but overall quality-of-life improvements may be worth it.
dusk007
macrumors 68040
Nothing Haswell will really change here. The HD 4600 will be underwhelming. It will be slightly faster than a HD 4000 but essentially the same. Drivers won't be any different. It is not like there will be a new push out some decent drivers initiative.
The interesting parts will be the HD 5200 but I suspect they will only show on some Dual Cores. A 15" Quad Core will never see one of those.
Doubtful. 20nm Maxwell has been pushed just like the AMD alternative. It seems doubtful that any mobile 20nm GPU will hit the market in 2013 at all and if really really late and too late for the rMBP refresh. Anything till then will be the same 28nm GPUs we have now with maybe a few Mhz more. AMD has even stopped bothering with a fake refresh and will probably stick to relabeling this year, as they are busy with PS4 and XboX 720 graphics.
The next worthwhile GPU upgrade will be 20nm Maxwell and you simply won't see it in time. It will be sometime in 2014 most likely. Till then dedicated graphics will stay essentially the same.
At least the max TDP has even gone up. According to anandtech Intel moving some Voltage Regulation onto the chip package alone adds TDP at that already hot spot rather than spread it.
Anyone can agree that if you want to buy a macbook now for yourself and you don't really need it right now the right decision is to wait for haswell bump. I mean is already mid March.