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Have Apple dropped the ball with Leopard?
- Thread starter thomasp
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All anyone has to do is look at this hideous screenshot:
And it becomes very hard to complain about Leopard's UI.
As "hideous" as you think it is, I don't find anything in it as objectionable as the 3D dock or transparent menu bar. I can easily read all the text and recognize the icons, and that's the highest priority for me.
Markleshark
macrumors 603
Hardly the point. Thats like saying 'Boy, Windows 98 was gray and boring, it's a good job we've got all this fancy unreadable Areo stuff in Vista.'
I like the Leopard UI anyway.
Avatar74
macrumors 68000
Actually, it does.
Stacks is based on a 1992 patent filed by Apple for an icon stacking system developed originally for the Newton/e-Mate... called Piles.
😀
The ball is nearly dropped...
Apple have almost completely dropped the ball with leopard, and I'm damned happy about it. I've hardly seen that damned beach ball at all since upgrading!
To me, that pretty much sums up why apple HAVEN'T dropped the ball - leopard is massively better than tiger in lots of ways under the hood. Over the hood? It's a mixed bag, the UI in general I think is much better, although it's subtle. Probably the kind of thing where you don't appreciate it until you're used to it and then go back to tiger. Metal windows anyone?
The dock, the menu bar and stacks though, I think are a step backwards. The dock is fine if you like nice shiny things, if you prefer it to be more usable than flashy the tiger dock is better. The dock is great though if you use it at the side, or turn off the glass. The menu bar doesn't really gain anything other than more flashiness with the transparency, and loses readability. Stacks I actually like, other than the lack of a clear icon which makes it useless if you want a few of them.
The main thing that I really hate about the new cosmetic changes though is that while some people like them, a lot seem to prefer the old versions, and apple haven't given us the option of picking the old version! It can't be hard to add an option to turn off menu bar transparency, there's already a switch to turn off the glass dock (and the 'flat' version is updated and very pretty too!) but you have to use the command line. And why not keep the old dock folders feature as well as the stacks, rather than removing a useful feature? A combination of both would be perfect!
Overall then, a great upgrade with a few quirks. Compared to vista, you've never had it so good! (and I had to test vista to work out our upgrade strategy for a few thousand pcs at work... give me xp any day!)
Apple have almost completely dropped the ball with leopard, and I'm damned happy about it. I've hardly seen that damned beach ball at all since upgrading!
To me, that pretty much sums up why apple HAVEN'T dropped the ball - leopard is massively better than tiger in lots of ways under the hood. Over the hood? It's a mixed bag, the UI in general I think is much better, although it's subtle. Probably the kind of thing where you don't appreciate it until you're used to it and then go back to tiger. Metal windows anyone?
The dock, the menu bar and stacks though, I think are a step backwards. The dock is fine if you like nice shiny things, if you prefer it to be more usable than flashy the tiger dock is better. The dock is great though if you use it at the side, or turn off the glass. The menu bar doesn't really gain anything other than more flashiness with the transparency, and loses readability. Stacks I actually like, other than the lack of a clear icon which makes it useless if you want a few of them.
The main thing that I really hate about the new cosmetic changes though is that while some people like them, a lot seem to prefer the old versions, and apple haven't given us the option of picking the old version! It can't be hard to add an option to turn off menu bar transparency, there's already a switch to turn off the glass dock (and the 'flat' version is updated and very pretty too!) but you have to use the command line. And why not keep the old dock folders feature as well as the stacks, rather than removing a useful feature? A combination of both would be perfect!
Overall then, a great upgrade with a few quirks. Compared to vista, you've never had it so good! (and I had to test vista to work out our upgrade strategy for a few thousand pcs at work... give me xp any day!)
/dev/toaster
macrumors 68020
I think Leopard is a great improvement. I think people are being far too picky, there are plenty of work arounds for the dock and the menu bar. (Which I think look great as they are)
Timemachine is by far the best feature, so useful and works so well. Sure, has issues regarding backups over network ... but, I am fairly sure Apple is working on that.
Timemachine is by far the best feature, so useful and works so well. Sure, has issues regarding backups over network ... but, I am fairly sure Apple is working on that.
I like leopard
The good:
- faster, way faster than 10.4.x on my mac
- terminal is awesome, as is the new X11
- font rendering seems a lot better
- new finder is useful, as as grid mode stacks
- seems stable, and almost all my apps run fine
- new wifi interface is an improvement
- dtrace rules (most sun admins will attest), but not for the end-user
- spaces works well, but I wish I had more than two pure function keys to assign.
-
The bad:
- menubar and dock. I hate the new dock and the transparent menubar. Why or why can't Apple let the OS be easily themeable and let any theme parameter be adjustable? Why can I have the option of running any of the previous OSX themes?
- firewall disabled by default
- Firewall - seems to have problems. Not as tunable as the old ipfw firewall.
- iLife should be bundled into the OS
The good:
- faster, way faster than 10.4.x on my mac
- terminal is awesome, as is the new X11
- font rendering seems a lot better
- new finder is useful, as as grid mode stacks
- seems stable, and almost all my apps run fine
- new wifi interface is an improvement
- dtrace rules (most sun admins will attest), but not for the end-user
- spaces works well, but I wish I had more than two pure function keys to assign.
-
The bad:
- menubar and dock. I hate the new dock and the transparent menubar. Why or why can't Apple let the OS be easily themeable and let any theme parameter be adjustable? Why can I have the option of running any of the previous OSX themes?
- firewall disabled by default
- Firewall - seems to have problems. Not as tunable as the old ipfw firewall.
- iLife should be bundled into the OS
Here's are two ways they've dropped the ball:
1) Those hideous jelley bean scroll bars ui elements, buttons, check boxes, etc. are still there. YUCK 😡 Apple could have done WAY better in the last 2+ years.
2) Mac OS X is still shackled to Apple's limited hardware line. 😡
1) Those hideous jelley bean scroll bars ui elements, buttons, check boxes, etc. are still there. YUCK 😡 Apple could have done WAY better in the last 2+ years.
2) Mac OS X is still shackled to Apple's limited hardware line. 😡
Sky Blue
Guest
yeah, I thought they'd removed the beach ball...I didn't see it at all the fist couple of days. Saw it very briefly yesterday.
Sorry but the new X11 on Leopard is f***ed, plain an simple. A list of things that are broken:
1. Full screen mode doesn't work (but is still in the preferences)
2. 3 button emulation doesn't work (so no X11 "Paste" on a Trackpad or single button mouse).
3. X11 windows can be dragged under the menubar!
4. The dredded "yellow cursor of doom" is back.
5. Try holding down shift and clicking on non X11 app, when you go back to X11, its like you're still holding down shift... forever (or until you quit X11).
6. X11/Spaces simply don't work together properly.
7. Launching things from the Applications menu doesn't work.
8. uxterm is gone from X11, so non-Latin character using people are screwed.
9. Xnest dissappeared.
That's just off the top of my head. However its getting fixed as we speak luckily.
Same as it was in Tiger, but I agree this is boneheaded.
This has been overhyped and misunderstood. The new system allows you to open ports for programs that need them just like the old one, the difference is that this happens "on the fly" now, instead of having to configure in the Preferences. So if you want to run some userland server, a pop up will ask you if you want to allow access to the ports it requires. This is a much easier solution for the average user than the previous method IMHO. Once you get used to the fact that you don't need to configure the firewall specifically for a certain port, you'll be much happier.
What and deprive Apple of revenue? 😉
Cave Man
macrumors 604
I have been buying OS X on the first day of each versions' release and this is the first time I consider the "upgrade" a disappointment.
Cave Man
macrumors 604
He doesn't need to "get a life" - I suspect it's you who do since you seem to be unable to engage in civilized discourse. The problems with Leopard are substantial. Security holes, Airport that is the buggiest it's ever been, dropped printer drivers, crashing Printer Setup utility, etc., etc. It seems like a beta release to me.
Odd, because Tiger was utterly broken in its 10.4.0 form for me. After installing Tiger my impression was that they just reduced my computer's memory by half and the CPU speed by 1/3rd.
Leopard (apart from the X11 issues I mentioned above) is by far and away the smoothest and best OS upgrade I've had from Apple. There are already features in Leopard that I miss going back to Tiger (like Quicklook which is simply awesome).
SiliconAddict
macrumors 603
While overall I think Leopard is a solid release, I do think it has a fair number of bugs in it. I've had problems with not being able to connect to my router, dropping my router passphrase in the keychain, issues with being PULLED from one desktop to another in spaces when I close an app or open an app (And yes I don't have whatever app assigned to the desktop I'm being pulled to.), problems with Leopard telling me I have an insecure network and disabling WIFI when I know my network is perfectly secure.
And my personal favorite? Windows not showing up in the overview of spaces, making it impossible to move the window to another space. One example with with a Mac Help screen. Now someone told me that Mac Help is no longer a stand alone app so that is why you can't see drag it from one desktop to another however it isn't just Mac Help that is doing this. iTunes did this to me once as did Firefox.
Oh and I've had Finder crash on me a few times when I've been viewing files in Cover Flow. Haven't used that view since and things have been fine.
Again, Leopard is a good OS. However as I predicted it feels rushed and unpolished.
PS- Before someone asks. My laptop specs are below. As for the install. Backed up my files, synced .Mac, formatted the drive and created a new clean partition, installed Leopard, created a new account, synced .Mac again, reinstalled (and dragged.) my apps, ran update to install any patches, and copied my data back down again. So I have about as clean of an install as you can get.
And my personal favorite? Windows not showing up in the overview of spaces, making it impossible to move the window to another space. One example with with a Mac Help screen. Now someone told me that Mac Help is no longer a stand alone app so that is why you can't see drag it from one desktop to another however it isn't just Mac Help that is doing this. iTunes did this to me once as did Firefox.
Oh and I've had Finder crash on me a few times when I've been viewing files in Cover Flow. Haven't used that view since and things have been fine.
Again, Leopard is a good OS. However as I predicted it feels rushed and unpolished.
PS- Before someone asks. My laptop specs are below. As for the install. Backed up my files, synced .Mac, formatted the drive and created a new clean partition, installed Leopard, created a new account, synced .Mac again, reinstalled (and dragged.) my apps, ran update to install any patches, and copied my data back down again. So I have about as clean of an install as you can get.
How soon they forget...
I think my Leopard experience will be like Tiger - i'll get busy "doing stuff" and not notice many of the things that Apple have done. Then one day I'll end up using Tiger for some rason or other and be shocked to find out just hown much my work flow has come to depend on all those little things.
With Tiger it was Spotlight - didn't think I'd have much use for it, but with much of the source material I use for research now in PDF format I suddenly had everything at my fingertips.
Don't know what it will be with Leopard yet - but (on my MacBook at least) Spaces is proving a very useful tool. Whether it will of such utility on my desktop (I've not upgraded that one while I check all my apps work on the MacBook) is an interesting question. But on a "small" laptop screen it does look like it makes a difference.
Anyway, I've done to installs (thanks to the Family pack) and no problems yet - there is a little bug in Illustrator, but it was there on Tiger too and it is not a show-stopper. Things to are "snappier" on the MacBoon and G4 mac Mini. Have to fight the temptation to just whang Leopard onto the MAc Pro to see how that performs. 😀
I take back everything bad I've ever said about any Apple software!
I had to show someone how to do something in Word today (set Word so the "page 1" was actually page 3 in the document - in other words, the title page and contents weren't numbered) - only trouble was, it was Word '07 on Vista.
Usually, I can do the above-mentioned task in around about a minute, if that, in Word '04 on Mac or Word 2003/XP on Windows. But in '07, oh no! Those new menus are absolutely HORRID - I couldn't find anything!
I knew people complained about Word '07, but I'd never had a chance to try it until now. Let's put it this way, Word '08 won't be going anywhere near my Mac - screw .docx format, I'm sticking with Word '04 (and maybe upgrading to Pages if I really do need to support .docx).
Word '07 - now Microsoft really dropped the "nice, user-friendly interface" ball, in my opinion.
Right, back to Leopard 😉
I had to show someone how to do something in Word today (set Word so the "page 1" was actually page 3 in the document - in other words, the title page and contents weren't numbered) - only trouble was, it was Word '07 on Vista.
Usually, I can do the above-mentioned task in around about a minute, if that, in Word '04 on Mac or Word 2003/XP on Windows. But in '07, oh no! Those new menus are absolutely HORRID - I couldn't find anything!
I knew people complained about Word '07, but I'd never had a chance to try it until now. Let's put it this way, Word '08 won't be going anywhere near my Mac - screw .docx format, I'm sticking with Word '04 (and maybe upgrading to Pages if I really do need to support .docx).
Word '07 - now Microsoft really dropped the "nice, user-friendly interface" ball, in my opinion.
Right, back to Leopard 😉
My wife had a new laptop from work with office 07. She hated the new menus at first, but after a week or so of use, she decided it was actually very powerful and flexible, and she likes it now. The reason? After a week, she figured out how to make it look and work like office 2003!
I don't know if they dropped the ball in terms of features or intent. but i definitely think it was an unnecessarily messy transition. and for that well my vote is obvious.
Pages is awesome, but from my experience with Office:08 beta, its actually really good (and I detest '07)
FYI TextEdit can open docx files.
You need .mac for it, but the single best feature of Leopard is "back to my mac." I used it today to turn on photo booth on my home PC and check out how my 3 month old boys are doing.
Plus get them in trouble with claims of purposefully harming competitors like MS...
jaw04005
macrumors 601
All anyone has to do is look at this hideous screenshot:
Or going back even further, to the very beginning:
