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Having second thoughts about the HomePod.
- Thread starter Newtons Apple
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Well when it comes to privacy, the biggest differentiator is that with (Apple in general and) HomePod any and all information is sent to the Apple server using an anonymous Siri identifier that isn’t tied to your Apple ID or email address in any way. So you can’t be identified from it.
After six months any voice data from HomePod is completely disassociated from your Siri ID.
Apple does plan to keep voice files for an additional eighteen months for product improvement purposes. But this is not tied to your account nor can you be identified from it.
Conversely all data with Amazon and Google’s alternatives is not anonymous. It’s directly tied to you specifically and your account, email address and so on. Google Home stores data indefinitely, or until the user deletes it.
This bothers some people more than others (and some people have no idea about it at all.) After all most of us aren’t having top secret conversations in our lounge, so what does it matter. You can of course manually delete any data you want from your account, it’s just a pain to keep doing it.
If you’re curious what’s in there, just have a look at the Alexa app for iOS, if you have an Echo. You’ll see every single thing it’s listned in on. Even the ones you didn’t know about because it’s been triggered by the TV or music or whatever.
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Mine passed the wife test really easily. I showed her the list of things my Echo had recorded us saying even on days when the trigger word wasn’t used. She was appalled and told me to “get that damn thing out of the house now”. Easiest debate I’ve ever won. Don’t know who she thinks is interested in the conversations we have...... Well, maybe some are best kept private
I’d been hummin and hawing over the HomePod anyway, I’ve never been completely happy with the Echo. The sound isn’t particularly great, privacy is a little bit of a concern, but the thing that peeves me off more than anything is having to shout at the top of my voice, several times, to get Alexa to hear me above music.
Maybe it’s the Scottish accent, god knows, but I don’t have that trouble with Siri or Google. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fine if the music is what I’d consider a background level. But at the volume I like to listen to music at, the Echo is hopeless. It can’t even hear me above the TV at night, so I end up resorting to Siri on my phone. Which makes the Echo a bit redundant anyway.
In the end I just decided what the hell, 99% of our devices are Apple. I use Apple Music, all of my lighting, heating, electrical sockets are all HomeKit. And thanks to homebridge my entertainment system (via Harmony Hub) kettle and coffee machine are all HomeKit too.
I guess I’m the target market. But at the end of the day, if it arrives (today) and doesn’t sound good enough, or can’t hear me above music. Then it’ll be going straight back. No point having it if it doesn’t fix the problems I already have with my Echo. God knows how I’ll convince the wife to keep the Echo if I have to though, she wasn’t having the, but I can delete the recordings from Amazon’s servers argument.
Your wife's concern about privacy with the Echo or Google Home is valid. As you have experienced they have both been caught recording when they shouldn't be but for Amazon that doesn't surprise me. Maybe you said the name of a product they sell and they wanted to market it to you. And I agree with your wife in that I don't want people listening to my conversations and it isn't about who is listening but rather that they are listening at all. Apple has already proven their stand on privacy rights and that is why I waited for their system.
My HP works great for everything I've asked it to do for me.
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Ha, I wish, I might get paid more. But no, I know these things because they’re public knowledge. If you’re ever bored enough to trawl through terms and conditions and privacy statements, it can be a real eye-opener. Particularly when companies whose financial performance depends entirely or mostly on user information.
I do it, from time to time mainly because I’m the curious type and partly because I’m a developer. And always because I like to know my legal rights and how my, sometimes private and personal information is used.
There’s almost always opt-outs or ways to limit what companies such as Amazon/Google/Facebook can and can’t track but it can be a pain in the rear end having to do it all the time if you care about such things. And it’s never truly stopped, just sidelined or slightly restricted.
At the end of the day, Amazon wants to sell you things, so they want to track you to better target products at you.
The vast majority of Google’s profits still come from advertisers. So they want to know anything and everything about you so they can better target adverts at you.
Nothing is ever truly free and yet the question a lot of people never ask when they get lots of, for instance, software products from Google. Is how are they making their billions every year? Yet the answer is so delightfully simple, they make their billions by and large by selling us. Care about that, or don’t care about that, it’s your information so do what you like.
As Apple have said many times, they don’t need to make money from our information, they don’t sell information to advertisers or any other organisations. So they don’t need to track any individual.
They may need to use some information to provide us with certain aspects of products, or to improve them. But for that Apple uses industry leading Diffirential Privacy, which basically encrypts and muddles up your information with that of millions of other people. So that you’re never able to be individually tracked, it’s just random data.
Some people might call this an advert for Apple. Please yourselves, I don’t care one way or the other. But all this lot is, are simple facts you can go and verify for yourself.
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What comprises a 5 speaker Sonos system? I know you could do the PlayBar + sub + 2 x Play 1 or Play 3 as rear channels for a home cinema.
Given the positive reviews of the HomePod and the obvious R&D that's gone into it's easy to imagine that Apple won't stop at a single device. Could we see a HomePod 2.1 or even 5.1 system, with maybe 3 or 5 tweeter satellites and a sub that builds on the active calibration technology?
If Apple wants to get into this market they will need to give the people something that cost less than $350. Thinking they will have a smaller model out by the end of the year that will be about $150.
I do not think that Apple's venture into the HomePod will be putting them in the speaker business.
System is four Play 5 speakers and the Sub. There are also 4 Play 1 speakers in bedrooms and loft.
I would not expect the HomePod to compete. My original posts was simply telling how much I love my existing system and was going to stick with it. I want the HomePod because I love Apple products, but there are time when you just got to stop!
Hope everyone enjoys what they got!
Have you seen this review? It’s the most exhaustive review I’ve seen, and, while we won’t get appropriate stereo separation until we can link two Homepods, the audio quality of this thing punches well above its weight, even compared to good hi-fi speakers. Tom Holman is no joke: https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/
With the HomePod, Apple seems to be trying to repeat past successes by doing what it historically does...watch the market, learn from other's mistakes, then outdo everyone with something that does it better for 3x the price that makes everyone forget the competition despite the price. It's a fantastic trick if you can pull it off every time you try.
The problem this time is, everyone's else products (meaning Google and Alexa) aren't immature new technology with vast limitations, like a crappy Rio MP3 player that the iPod crushed into oblivion. Google and Amazon's speaker offerings are seasoned, solid contenders from massive companies with money to burn on winning the smart home speaker war.
The biggest factor in Google and Amazon's favor is Siri's utter incompetence. Aside from a slightly faster and somewhat more natural sounding responses than Siri 1.0, and the addition of unintuitive things it can do that no one cares about, Siri remains stagnant, compared to say Alexa.
Despite being a fully Apple home, I own an Echo, after trying a Dot last year, and I wouldn't have bought either had Siri on the iPhone/iPad not sucked so bad. And what little capabilities Siri has on Apple TV is a completely missed opportunity. I didn't even think I'd use an Echo until I saw how much more it could do, and do correctly, without the constant repeating of commands required of Newton's niece, Siri.
I'm not surprised to hear the Home Pod sounds great. Apple has proven they can do great sound. But it has also proven they can't do Siri. Neither track record seems to have changed with the Home Pod.
If I were hiring a personal assistant, I'd much rather have someone whip smart and multitalented. They don't have to sing well.
The problem this time is, everyone's else products (meaning Google and Alexa) aren't immature new technology with vast limitations, like a crappy Rio MP3 player that the iPod crushed into oblivion. Google and Amazon's speaker offerings are seasoned, solid contenders from massive companies with money to burn on winning the smart home speaker war.
The biggest factor in Google and Amazon's favor is Siri's utter incompetence. Aside from a slightly faster and somewhat more natural sounding responses than Siri 1.0, and the addition of unintuitive things it can do that no one cares about, Siri remains stagnant, compared to say Alexa.
Despite being a fully Apple home, I own an Echo, after trying a Dot last year, and I wouldn't have bought either had Siri on the iPhone/iPad not sucked so bad. And what little capabilities Siri has on Apple TV is a completely missed opportunity. I didn't even think I'd use an Echo until I saw how much more it could do, and do correctly, without the constant repeating of commands required of Newton's niece, Siri.
I'm not surprised to hear the Home Pod sounds great. Apple has proven they can do great sound. But it has also proven they can't do Siri. Neither track record seems to have changed with the Home Pod.
If I were hiring a personal assistant, I'd much rather have someone whip smart and multitalented. They don't have to sing well.
i guess it depends if you want it primarily as an assistant or not
siri for me could just as well not exist and i’d still be happy with this purchase.
siri for me could just as well not exist and i’d still be happy with this purchase.
That’s kind of the point. There were many MP3 players on the market that were more functional and feature rich than the iPod, but Apple succeeded with high quality and simplicity.
I personally could care less about more digital assistant features. I want an easy to use, great sounding speaker to listen to Apple Music with, and that’s what the HomePod is. I actually have Alexa built into my thermostat, but it’s disabled, because I don’t need the features, and I don’t care to have Amazon listening to me due to privacy concerns. Siri is less intrusive.
Do you have them as two stereo pairs or 4 separate speakers?
Reason I’m asking is I have
2 x stereo paired Play:5 Gen 2 in my living room
2 x stereo paired Play:1 in my Kitchen
1 x Play:1 in the bedroom.
I’m looking at maybe getting a Sub too but wondered if I should also get a couple more Play:1 for the living room as well and then wether to separate them or run them as two stereo pairs.
I think once Apple allow the ability to link the Homepods together then, judging by all the sound reviews (less consumer reports) it could be a serious rival to Sonos Play:1 & Play:3.
If I were you I’d move things around. Pairing the Play 5s with a sub is a waste. When paired with a sub the Play 5 deactivates it’s own sub. I’d suggest pairing two play 1s to the sub and check out whether it makes much difference. I moved from two Play 5s+Sub to two Play 3s+Sub and saw no degradation. BTW - the sub really does work wonders doesn’t it!
A Homepod knock-off? Is the homepod not a knock-off Google and Alexa speakers?
I'm someone who has zero interest in these smart speakers. I have Sonos throughout the house - they sound fantastic which is the main reason for having speakers in my opinion. To be able to sync them, control from my phone and stream to them is a mighty bonus.
But, unless I'm mistaken, all the homepod/alexa/google home does in addition is allow me to shout commands at them to turn on the lights, search the internet, turn up the heating etc. assuming:
a) I have the additonal hardware to allow it to switch on the lights etc.
b) Am happy for everyone else in the house to hear my internet query and the reply
c) Happen to be in the room where the Homepod is when I want to use it
However, the homepod et al does nothing my phone cannot do. And my phone is with me in the sitting room, bedroom, kitchen, garage, car, at work etc etc.
I know one person with a smart speaker - the Alexa. He uses it to adjust the heating a degree or two, but adjusting the thermostat by hand seems easier and less obtrusive (every time he does it a conversation of "Are you hot?" "Why not just open a window?" "I'm just right" starts). The only other thing is to turn on the lights, but it rarely works and only controls two lights in their house, so there's still the need to switch on all the others by hand. And being able to adjust the colour of the light is totally pointless.
So I just don't get why I'd want any of this in place of my Sonos system...
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HomePod Mini ($125), HomePod ($350), HomePod Plus ($800).
Like I said I am not interested in replacing the system I have. It is past tense and love my Sonos system.
I don't think we'll see anything like that, at least anytime soon. Just my $.02
In my opinion, Google and Amazon are still in the hardware experimentation phase (with Google a bit further along than Amazon). Whereas HomePod seems like a fully realized*, timeless**, hardware product. (The software can be updated or not.)
*at least after Airplay 2 is released it will be
**more in the sense it will still be nice as long as it still works, not that it will always work
Other than third party skills, which I think few people probably use, I honestly don’t know what Alexa is supposed to do that Siri doesn’t—aside from things Apple will almost certainly be adding shortly like calling, calendars and “Voice ID” or whatever. Buying paper towels?
Google obviously has its search engine and knowledge graph etc.
(I think Alexa might use Bing.)
In my experience, aside from some foreign names, voice control works pretty well on Apple TV. I like that you don’t have to say “Hey Siri,” and responses are silent. It would cool if they made a single button remote accessory for HomePod so you can make requests without saying “Hey Siri” over and over.
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You’re probably right about the Plus but there has already been a analyst saying: “Our research suggests Home Pod preorders are doing well; we currently forecast production of 6 million units this year. Additionally, we believe Apple could launch a low-end Home Pod in the fall with a retail price of roughly $150-200. Looking at the success of Amazon’s Echo products we believe demand could exceed 10 million units this calendar year.”
https://www.barrons.com/amp/article...her-se-etc-confirmed-by-rosenblatt-1518192741
That was posted to Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7wedut/analyst_predicts_new_apple_pencil_lowend_200/
Oh, I wouldn’t either, considering you have so many of them already. I was simply pointing out a review saying that the HomePod keeps up with some good hi-do speakers, let alone any Sonos.
I’m returning my HomePod. All boxed up and ready to be dropped off. Just isn’t worth 2x the cost of a Play:1 in my experience. It’s brilliant for live recordings but I prefer the Sonos sound more for everything else. Will say it’s a solid product the HomePod and is perfect for those who haven’t jumped into this market yet.
I’m also returning mine. Purchased it to replace a Sony stereo in the kitchen but the HomePod doesn’t beat this Sony stereo for sound quality which I’m surprised about. Gutted really as I love apple stuff but it’s just too expensive to make do.