Having your app pirated - what do you do?

[medicrx]

A popular analytics package provides this info. One could also detect and record this information on their own.

I guess what I mean is... if they're downloading from the app store wouldn't they have to buy it? If someone has a cracked copy and distributes it on the internet, how is it possible to track that? It could be anywhere out there in cyberspace right?

I know I am missing something.

 

[admanimal]

I guess what I mean is... if they're downloading from the app store wouldn't they have to buy it? If someone has a cracked copy and distributes it on the internet, how is it possible to track that? It could be anywhere out there in cyberspace right?

I know I am missing something.

I'm guessing he is using an analytics package that is part of the app itself. So every time the app is run on a new device, it connects to a server and records this. So if the analytics software reports that 4050 people have installed the app but the OP has only seen 50 sales on his reports from Apple, that means 4000 people have obtained it another way.

 

[medicrx]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh! I see. I get it now. Thank you!

 

[CBanga]

I'm either extremely old at 31 or just an extremely advanced being.

WTF is up with some of you defending piracy? It's stealing. Yeah, I did it before when I was younger. That doesn't mean I think it's right. I mostly started to actually hear the damn song before iTunes was around. I'm pretty sure that all of those pirated songs are gone.

Still, we're going to defend it as advancing technology? Seriously? If I were to write a book and someone stole 10,000 copies from a warehouse, I could give a crap that they're reading it. I'd be hella pissed because someone STOLE MY WORK. When some of you realize that about pirating music and video, you'll be a better person.

And like some of you said, jailbreaking and piracy are different. I don't like jailbreaking, but it's not stealing. You're just fudging up your phone to put unauthorized stuff on it -- mostly. I don't see that as a big issue. But when it's done to STEAL work, it's a huge deal.

To the OP, I would get as pissed as I still am at the ******* who backed into me and lied to a cop, making ME pay a $500 deductible and an $80 fine. That ******* stole $580 from me, plain and simple. The cop is an SOB for just taking two people's stories and deciding I was lying because I was behind him.

But I digress. Inform Apple about it, then find out what authorities you need to contact to prosecute people or maybe get a site shut down. If you're smart enough, you could always cyberbomb the site by doing something like pinging the hell out of it so it's always busy. I really hope you get some justice because I know you're not the only person affected by this crap.

Great post man, really love the argument made here.

As for condoning piracy when it's related to movies or music, I never said that nor do I feel that way. I did say that I feel our generation grew up when piracy only affected the movies making $500 million a weekend or artists who are selling sold out shows across the country. Check out South Park's illegal music download clip from a couple years ago, because that's how I believe the majority of people see piracy. I'm not saying that opinion is right, but it does make piracy easier to justify. However, now that we're moving to a huge online/digital market place, I think it's important that these issues are brought up because million dollar movies aren't the only thing being pirated anymore. Instead, the guy like me looking to pay off college loans or car insurance are seeing huge hits because somebody doesn't want to spend $0.99 on something I devoted hundreds of hours to.

 

[uberamd]

Great post man, really love the argument made here.

As for condoning piracy when it's related to movies or music, I never said that nor do I feel that way. I did say that I feel our generation grew up when piracy only affected the movies making $500 million a weekend or artists who are selling sold out shows across the country. Check out South Park's illegal music download clip from a couple years ago, because that's how I believe the majority of people see piracy. I'm not saying that opinion is right, but it does make piracy easier to justify. However, now that we're moving to a huge online/digital market place, I think it's important that these issues are brought up because million dollar movies aren't the only thing being pirated anymore. Instead, the guy like me looking to pay off college loans or car insurance are seeing huge hits because somebody doesn't want to spend $0.99 on something I devoted hundreds of hours to.

You can't use that argument. You simply can't. Whether a dollar is being taken from your pocket, or someone else's is irrelevant. We ALL have bills to pay, so please stop the "poor me I have college and insurance" comments. I am in the SAME boat as you, and I don't feel bad for myself.

Listen, if there wasn't piracy even the big software companies could hire MORE developers, create MORE jobs, etc. The missing money impacts them just as much as you.

And honestly, it shouldn't take something happening to you to personally open your eyes to the problem. This has been going on for what, 20 years now? It's widespread, it has impacted many, and stopping it is not easy.

And I hope that hundreds of hours was an exaggeration (I am a dev myself, so if that took you hundreds of hours, its time to pick up a different book )

 

[SpeedFleX]

It's simple really...

Honest Customers will be honest.... Some honest go dishonest, some dishonest go honest...

What ever you developers put in for protection don't ruin the experince for the paying one...

I swear I am sick of companies messin with the Software I bought in a way that affects me!!!! Look at Spore for example, I know I know diffrent plattform and all but throw in to much of that DRM crap and you'll be pissin people off.

When making an app remember this. The first thing is making the app good not just good but greattt where it stands out! If you became a developer not to help or make people lives better in the computer world and trying to make a living, well sorry you better change your job focus...

If you wanna control something digital tough luck to that, the internet cant be controlled... To many and its to fast.....

Software Developing is more of a form of art then anything, just like Music... Underground Music has so much taleent yet only few make it to the top

Only a few labels have enough money to push crap out and getting money for it. its a hard world out there for the begginers or start ups..

 

[CBanga]

You can't use that argument. You simply can't. Whether a dollar is being taken from your pocket, or someone else's is irrelevant. We ALL have bills to pay, so please stop the "poor me I have college and insurance" comments. I am in the SAME boat as you, and I don't feel bad for myself.

Listen, if there wasn't piracy even the big software companies could hire MORE developers, create MORE jobs, etc. The missing money impacts them just as much as you.

And honestly, it shouldn't take something happening to you to personally open your eyes to the problem. This has been going on for what, 20 years now? It's widespread, it has impacted many, and stopping it is not easy.

I'm stressing my situation as an example, but I'm not feeling sorry for myself in any sense of the words. I sympathize with you for everything you're losing out on too, this isn't an issue where I only care that I get my money while not any care at all about your scenario.

My main point is this, piracy is something that affects all app developers and is something that we should work together in coming up with creative solutions to raise awareness and combat the problem. Regardless as to who is losing money, either myself, you, people laid off at a huge company because of piracy, whoever, it doesn't matter. However, with the iPhone App Store still in relative infancy and the truth being that we're definitely going to only see more money spent online as a whole in the future on digital products such as software, not less, I am interested in seeing what others are doing to protect themselves. Piracy is and will be an issue as long as there are digital products, I totally understand this. However, my goal was only to raise awareness on the issue based off a personal story. On the pirate site where I found our app, the owner justifies the piracy and themselves under the argument of "Apple doesn't allow demos, so this is OK" which is completely absurd and just plain wrong. In writing this, I wanted to stress to people who maybe pirates of iPhone apps that you're NOT hurting Apple, you're hurting a guy just like yourself.

Again, I don't know where you got the understanding that I feel like dollars for myself are more valuable than your dollars. I just think that this is an extensive problem and as developers we need to work together to try to cover our own asses, because as hard as they try, Apple is never going to be able to keep up with the pirates. Especially without crippling DRM, which I think most of us would be in strong disagreement with.

 

[CBanga]

And I hope that hundreds of hours was an exaggeration (I am a dev myself, so if that took you hundreds of hours, its time to pick up a different book )

As for this comment, I don't know about you and your history but our team had no programming experience before we began our development on Battery Go! We're a three man team that learned from the ground up how to program, promote, get into the store, etc. Since we started back in May, we've spent about 60 hours a week per person on the project and this is our first release into the store. That's 150-180 hours a week on learning how to code for the iPhone from the ground up, program some sample apps to learn what we're actually doing, then create the project, and that's all before we even released. Even if you take myself personally, 60 hours a week for nearly 2 months is definitely in the "hundreds of hours" category.

So started on May 13th, with none of us having ever programming any serious computer/cell phone app in our lives, having never started a company like this and having to learn about all the stuff that goes along with that, then to release, successfully market, and then to have our first application reach the top 100 is the US in less than 48 hours after our launch. Even if it did take us an excessive "hundreds of hours", I definitely think we picked up the right book.

 

[ppilone]

This response may sound silly but I think the OP is growing up. I'm in a similar situation he is (college student developing for the iPhone - my app has been in the top 10/top 50 now that its summer in the education category) and I've found it on some pirated sites. I don't have a development team being that is just me - and I've put a huge number of hours into it since it was released in January.

Does the pirating of my app annoy me? Sure it does - why shouldn't it? But at the same time I have to look through my entire music library and think about it - how's that copy of Office I'm running?

The problem is that when it was us pirating from someone else it was ok - now that our work is being stolen it is all of a sudden a huge issue that needs to be stopped right now! I've definitely tried to be much more responsible about purchasing all of my songs, installing software on the machine I bought it for - but I slip up sometimes. Stealing is stealing - even if I buy 10 songs on iTunes but grab 1 off of my friends computer - it's still stealing.

My suggestion is focus on making your app better. Instead of putting hours into code that will "screw over the pirate" put those hours towards improving your app and adding functionality. I know when I buy songs it's always from the artists who I truly appreciate and enjoy - the times I "borrow" a song from my friend it's usually a song that I don't need and probably wouldn't own otherwise.

 

[Compile 'em all]

Learn to live with it. If people really love your app they won't mind shelling out money for it, even if you gave it away for free. Instead of wasting time trying to take anti-piracy measures which WILL fail in the end, spend that time improving your app instead.

ps: yes my apps are also pirated but to be honest I couldn't careless. I knew it would happen anyway.

 

[admanimal]

Listen, if there wasn't piracy even the big software companies could hire MORE developers, create MORE jobs, etc. The missing money impacts them just as much as you.

The thing is that there is little or no "missing money." Software pirates don't start paying for stuff when you take away their ability to get it for free. Most of them are high school kids who don't even actually use 95% of the stuff they download anyway. A 15 year old isn't going to pay $500 for Photoshop if you make it impossible for him to get it for free. I'm not saying this makes it OK for them to pirate it, but in reality they aren't taking any money away from the software companies by doing it.

There may be a few exceptions with apps that are pirated more by adult mainstream computer users, like Photoshop, Office, and Windows.

 

[Diode]

Our first app was cracked within an hour of appearing on the App Store

You can make things a bit more difficult for the crackers by including the following code in your main App delegate in the applicationDidFinishLaunching method (before the windows are added):

	NSBundle *bundle = [NSBundle mainBundle];
	NSDictionary *info = [bundle infoDictionary];
	if ([info objectForKey: @"SignerIdentity"] != nil)
	{
		exit(0);
	}

When an application is cracked, the SignerIdentity property is added to your main plist (this is how they get the phones to run them, apparently), and it doesn't exist for non-cracked apps.
This code snippet checks for the existence of the SignerIdentity property and quits the program if it's there.

Another good model to look at is Beejive. I believe they blacklist people who try and connect with known hacked versions. They will unblock you if you purchase it.

If I had an app I would personally enjoy the challenge of trying to prevent people cracking my software. I think Beejive has just done that.

 

[Muncher]

...in reality they aren't taking any money away from the software companies by doing it.

This is the difference between stealing physical objects (where the object itself has value, as well as it's content) and intellectual property (where there is no object and only the content holds value). Someone may possess a copy of a piece of software but never use it and therefore gain nothing from it.

Really now, what's the difference between listening to a song on the radio and deciding you don't like it versus downloading it, deciding you don't like it, and then deleting it. (I do not condone piracy, this is a hypothetical).

 

[DravenGSX]

Hey everyone,

I recently had a thing come up today where I found out that our app was being pirated. Frankly, I was kinda shocked and didn't know how to react. It just sorta sucked to check the download counter and see over 4000 potential downloads taken away through piracy in less than 5 hours.

I was wondering as to what other devs have been doing about piracy? How do you react if you see your app being distributed illegally?

Personally, I went about writing a little article on our blog explaining our situation and am hoping we can get some awareness via people who check out our website. I'm just hoping that it can help raise the idea that app store piracy doesn't hurt huge companies, but the small indie dev team made of college students like me and my team.

Here's a link, check it out and offer me your opinions, I would love to see if you guys are on the same thought path as I am. Feel free to digg it and share it with other devs as well. <snip>

Your rant was good and I can certainly appreciate what you're saying. It is difficult to relate, however, when the pictures next to the rant include a couple of macbooks, a big screen flat panel television, a 22" dell monitor and other assorted expensive toys. The "We ate pb&j and starved ourselves because we po'" excuse doesn't really help make your point.

I dugg it anyway.

 

[nyquistfilter]

My main point is this, piracy is something that affects all app developers and is something that we should work together in coming up with creative solutions to raise awareness and combat the problem... In writing this, I wanted to stress to people who maybe pirates of iPhone apps that you're NOT hurting Apple, you're hurting a guy just like yourself.

Your "main point" seems to be a moving target. Rather than trying to combat piracy with long winded forum posts full of contradictions and flawed logic, perhaps your time would be better spent on your college studies until you learn to write an effective argument.

You state that piracy hurts all developers and then in the same paragraph you go on to say that it is "NOT hurting Apple". Piracy is hurting Apple therefore it is also hurting developers and vice versa.

 

[CBanga]

Your "main point" seems to be a moving target. Rather than trying to combat piracy with long winded forum posts full of contradictions and flawed logic, perhaps your time would be better spent on your college studies until you learn to write an effective argument.

You state that piracy hurts all developers and then in the same paragraph you go on to say that it is "NOT hurting Apple". Piracy is hurting Apple therefore it is also hurting developers and vice versa.

You kinda took my whole comment out of context there by cutting out half the paragraph. If you re-read what I wrote, I saw that you're "NOT hurting Apple" if you're stating that you pirate because Apple doesn't give you a demo option. As in, if you think that's cool to pirate because Apple doesn't give you demos, you're doing more damage then just "sticking it to the man." I never said Apple didn't get hurt by a pirated app.

 

[needthephone]

The thing is that there is little or no "missing money." Software pirates don't start paying for stuff when you take away their ability to get it for free. Most of them are high school kids who don't even actually use 95% of the stuff they download anyway. A 15 year old isn't going to pay $500 for Photoshop if you make it impossible for him to get it for free. I'm not saying this makes it OK for them to pirate it, but in reality they aren't taking any money away from the software companies by doing it.

There may be a few exceptions with apps that are pirated more by adult mainstream computer users, like Photoshop, Office, and Windows.

Sorry don't kid yourself. This week I've had emails from fellow iPhone users with lists of pirated apps and where to get them. I refuse to get them as I have always thought it was stealing. I don't even download songs. I still buy CDs or use iTunes. But I am in the smalles minority everyone I know does it.

Go to sites like theleanproject and you will find anything.

I am not a developer either but I feel that unlike Microsoft who are probably inconvenienced by pirates you guys will potentially pushed out of business. I or my friends are normal people working in professional jobs and they are all downloading cracked apps.

You guys have to do something or you will be out of business. It's sad but don't kid yourself. This is just starting.

 

[Phil A.]

Wirelessly posted (iPod touch 32GB: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C97d Safari/528.16)

I've been developing software (and having it ripped off) since the bygone days of the Sinclair ZX81 over 25 years ago so it certainly isn't a new phenomenon. I have always made sure I pay for all my software, music and videos because I know how much it hurts to be ripped off.
People can try and justify piracy in whatever way they want but I can honestly say that every copy of software I have written that is ripped off feels like theft and it still hurts to think that there are people out there who can just help themselves to something that doesn't belong to them without any feelings of regret or remorse.
The posters who have said that piracy will never be stopped are right to a degree - it will never be stopped technologically: The only way it will ever stop is if society in general accepts it is morally wrong and stops doing it for that sole reason.

 

[t22design]

I understand* why people pirate things like Adobe Creative Suite as they cost hundreds/thousands of pounds - I have friends that have the latest version, and have no idea of how to work any of it.

I don't think these people are harming the sales of Creative Suite, but I do think they are harming the sales of cheaper alternatives - Elements, Paint Shop Pro etc.

I'm not impervious to the appeal of 'free' software, particularly expensive programs like Logic Suite or Ableton. After all anonymous corporations can afford it can't they.** (and Adobe deserve it for Acrobat Reader on Windows )

However, ripping off developers for the sake of (typically) £0.59-£5.99 is the action of a prize c***.

(P.S. Punishing the honest user is not a solution)

*understand does not equal condone
** this is obviously a joke

 

[dougdawson]

The pirate users of our app RunningTotal outnumber paid users by a significant margin. I feel kind of sorry for them, because the app was designed to work with the App Store wrt backups of user data, and when the app is upgraded, there is perhaps no method that I am legally allowed to disclose as to how pirates can propagate their data from one version to the other. Fscking hell, I'm perhaps not even allowed legally to know how to do it, and (if so) I'm not going to break that trust with Apple, on pain of breaking our developer contract. As RunningTotal is critically dependent on data propagation, the pirates will die away in self-imposed frustration for the sake of not having paid two bucks for the app, and what more can you say about that. Yo, how sad.

Doug

Just say, We're not going to talk about fight club. Etc.

 

[inbrissy]

I understand some of the excuses people bring here for cracking apps, like try before you buy etc.

But the thing that pisses me off the most is the fact that even an app selling at $1 surely isn't too much to ask for a great deal of work that developers put into their applications.

Even so, I can understand that they crack it just to see if its even worth the $1. However, my application OzSlang costs only $1 and 100% of all the proceeds go toward a charity! Surely there is no excuse what so ever to hack this. Even if you purchased it for $1 and didn't like it, at least you've added $1 towards a good cause!

Yes, I put the link to OzSlang in here just in case anyone would like to support it.

I don't really care how you look at that, but thats simply wrong. There is absolutely no excuse for that.

If it was an app for which I as the developer the large percentage or even the entire amount of the sales, fine you can crack it. And like many here say, it probably is a good thing because it shows people are actually interested in looking at your app which might boost sales.

Just my two cents worth of a rant!

 

[admanimal]

You guys have to do something or you will be out of business. It's sad but don't kid yourself. This is just starting.

Small software developers have been facing this problem just as long as large developers have (i.e. since the invention of software), and they have survived just fine. I maintain my opinion that it is a waste for a developer to spend more than a very small fraction of their time working to prevent it.

There will always be enough honest buyers of great apps to make it worth it for the developers. In fact I would go so far as to say that apps that are more popular to pirate are also more likely to be commercial successes (i.e. because they are great apps).

PinchMedia released some statistics a couple months back showing the percentage of Jailbroken phones was somewhere around 6%. This means that a developer still has over 90% of the iPhone market as potential paying customers- more than enough to make a good profit.

 

[neil1980]

I definitely think the way to go for all paid apps is to have a lite version and a paid version. (light version can be ad supported so you still get an income but reduced functionality)

I downloaded runkeeper lite... it was ad supported which I could live with but loved the app and thought it was worth the money... since then the paid version has had a few cool features added and I dont regret buying it and helping to support the app at all.

But I can see why people pirate stuff if there is no other way of trying it without paying.... I mean it wouldnt be so bad if there was like a flash demo of all apps on the net or something so you could at least see how it works first

 

[imacdaddy]

To the OP and other developers.

Why not think outside the box? How does the new in-App purchase work?

Provide the shell of the app as a free initial install and then an in-App pop up to purchase and install the reset of the app to make it functional. But then you have to consider if the app can be cracked once purchased when sync'd to iTunes and a backup copy of the app resides on the computer. Can you sync only the initial download and the rest reside on the iPhone? I'm not a developer so I don't know the Ts&Cs. Perhaps the in App purchase is the way to go?

 

[EssentialParado]

if you look at the case of music piracy, pirates are more likely to actually buy music than those that do not pirate music. maybe this is the case with apps?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

That study would imply people who pirate music become ten times more likely to buy music, but the statistics of music sales certainly aren't saying that (although in recent years they are slowly beginning to rise again.) In a study like that you'd need to consider a lot of variables, and it would be very easy to manipulate a result such as music pirates ten times more likely to buy music, especially if people who don't buy music at all were counted in the study or not. A study from a management school in Norway I'm skeptical about, but it's especially difficult when I can't find the original paper to read through myself.

I do know a few pirates who buy a ton of music, but I also know a lot of pirates who only get their music illegally and no other method. The latter significantly outweighing the first.

Luckily for the app store at the moment it seems the vast majority are buying legally. The mere fact prices are so small makes it too easy to do impulse purchases and not bother pirating. It's also very easy to try out apps due to there being a free demo / lite app coupled with nearly every paid app.